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Posted: 7/28/2001 12:51:53 PM EDT
Just curious. The first one I ever bought was a beat up Mosin-Nagant 91/30. It really got me hooked because it just oozed history! Since I have gotten a Yugo M48, an Soviet M-44, and a 1903A3. While the M48, and the M44 were never issued, they still have a unique history to them! I'd post pics of them if I had a digital camera, I will get one soon and post a pic of them. But I would like to see some others that get into the C&Rs a little and see some pics if you have them. I still need a good Enfield and a Garand.
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 1:16:54 PM EDT
Matt, I got my C&R License because I collect ArmaLite - many of which are C&R Guns. I don't know if I'm a real C&R guy or not as my taste runs strictly to ArmaLite.
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 1:20:39 PM EDT
Hey where else can you get a really good gun to hunt with for under $200? Nowhere! and you are right the history of all C&R Rifles is another thread all in itself. So Matt your looking for a M1 Garand too add to your collection? Check out the M1 Garands from the CMP if you want to own a genuine USGI Garand. [url]http://www.odcmp.com[/url]
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 2:26:28 PM EDT
Few years back,friend of mine and I bought a couple of Swedish Mausers, (M-96's) liked them so well a few weeks later we bought 2 M-38 swede's Last summer, I finally went and got a C&R best $30.00 I've ever spent! I've since picked up a M48 yugo, E.G. Makarov, 3Mosins a NO4 Mk1 Enfield, Had and traded a CZ-52 pistol (I'm going to get another one soon,)All bought on a C&R,and delivered right to my door! Two of the Mosins have wartime dates on them, and I've often wondered where they been during the war, Stalingrad?Hmmm, who knows? if they could only talk.
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 2:27:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 2:43:36 PM EDT
I've enjoyed collecting WWII weapons for the last few years. Getting a C&R was definately worth it!
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 2:46:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ralph Holderbaum: Few years back,friend of mine and I bought a couple of Swedish Mausers, (M-96's) liked them so well a few weeks later we bought 2 M-38 swede's Last summer, I finally went and got a C&R best $30.00 I've ever spent! I've since picked up a M48 yugo, E.G. Makarov, 3Mosins a NO4 Mk1 Enfield, Had and traded a CZ-52 pistol (I'm going to get another one soon,)All bought on a C&R,and delivered right to my door! Two of the Mosins have wartime dates on them, and I've often wondered where they been during the war, Stalingrad?Hmmm, who knows? if they could only talk.
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Ralph, I know what you mean. My 91/30 is dated 1938, I've often wondered what it has seen. It may have been at the seiges of Lenningrad, Moscow(well at least the fighing around Moscow), or Stalingrad! Of course if may have been captured by the Germans in '41 and used against the Russians! Maybe it saw use in finland? If only these rifles could talk!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 2:46:30 PM EDT
Please someone tell me what C&R is..
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 2:49:45 PM EDT
C&R mean Curio and Relic. Most "old guns" fall into this category and some up to about the 50's I think. I am a HUGE WWII history buff, so I like to collect some of the battle rifles that were used as you can tell my post. (since I can't collect the machine guns)
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 2:55:19 PM EDT
I started out with an M1 and later got a cheap Enfield No.4Mk1. Ungreased it and found it had a NEW barrel on it. [8D] Then I picked up an unaltered Springfield 03-A3. My first big bore was a sporterized 03-A3, had to have one unaltered. Have an SKS too. Somewhere in here I bought a CZ52 pistol. Mostly to check out the operating system. Same as a HK rifle, but one tenth the price. All of these guns ooze history. Something that a new commercial rifle, fine as they are, has none of.
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 3:10:54 PM EDT
It's really nice collecting those old guns and quite addicting (at least to me, anyhow). I got my C&R and picked up a 1943 Springfield M1 Garand and said that would be it. Then I came accross a all-numbers-matching 1943 IBM M1 Carbine and got that. Then a US&S M1911A1 (1943 by default). Now I'm about to submit a Form 4 for a Savage 1928 Thompson (M1928A1). What's next - a BAR!!!!
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 3:21:10 PM EDT
drfcolt, If you get the BAR will you adopt me?[:D]
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 3:59:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2001 3:55:40 PM EDT by Waverunner]
I'm still waiting on my C&R License to show up, but according to the BATF agent that stopped by my house, "You're approved and it'll be on it's way within a week" [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/Waverunner/nypd_02.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 5:11:12 PM EDT
I suppose after I wound up with around a dozen of these 99 Savages, I figured that I could say that I was really "into" C&R rifles. This is my latest, a 1950-vintage 99EG with a Stith mount and a Weaver J2.5 in .250-3000 caliber. I'm serious about these, ARs are a diversion........[8D] [img]http://communities.msn.com/_Secure/0OwAAANYTgSjUoK3Py7xQMeXHAgXp7xmCozNKdWu!Sw2P­ojk*OQOV9KFgdMqiJ5CQVOEvREJ3WDvJC5ED2VTwclSqw­yuyhvMJ/DSC000010.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 6:14:14 PM EDT
Jim Dandy, I fired a friends Model 99 once. I was really impressed with the gun. What impressed me most was that with a Model 99 you can have a nice level gun that can take Spitzer bulleted ammo. Very nice!
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 6:35:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Matt S: C&R mean Curio and Relic. Most "old guns" fall into this category and some up to about the 50's I think. I am a HUGE WWII history buff, so I like to collect some of the battle rifles that were used as you can tell my post. (since I can't collect the machine guns)
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Second question? What is this C&R license that Waverunner & the others are refering to? Thanks!!! P.S. as an aside I have a Lithgow Enfield #1 MK III...
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 7:20:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By drfcolt: Now I'm about to submit a Form 4 for a Savage 1928 Thompson (M1928A1). What's next - a BAR!!!!
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If you don't mid me asking, where did you find the Thompson? Also I'm not 100% clear on full auto/select fire C&R's. I live in a FA friendly state, can I buy a FA if it is considered a C&R (over 50years old)? What exactly is the difference between a form 4, 3?, etc... Any help would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 7:41:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mtnpatriot:
Originally Posted By drfcolt: Now I'm about to submit a Form 4 for a Savage 1928 Thompson (M1928A1). What's next - a BAR!!!!
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If you don't mid me asking, where did you find the Thompson? Also I'm not 100% clear on full auto/select fire C&R's. I live in a FA friendly state, can I buy a FA if it is considered a C&R (over 50years old)? What exactly is the difference between a form 4, 3?, etc... Any help would be appreciated.
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OK, What he said. Question still remains....What about the License...
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 7:46:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 7:49:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M1A-A1: Second question? What is this C&R license that Waverunner & the others are refering to? Thanks!!! P.S. as an aside I have a Lithgow Enfield #1 MK III...
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A C&R(Curio and Relic)FFL License allow people to purchase old rifles(most WW2 Era) and have them shipped directly to your house instead of having to pick them up at your regular FFL dealer. Cost is $30 [url]http://www.atf.treas.gov/forms/5000.htm#firearms[/url] scroll down and you will find it
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 7:54:44 PM EDT
Not all of the C&R eligible firearms are 50 years and over. Some items like Winchester 88s (manufactured from 1955 to 1974) and pre-'64 Model 70 Winchesters are included. You'll just have to check out the guide from the BATF to be sure. A lot of outfits, like Brownell's for example, will extend the FFL discount to C&R holders. Definitely worthwhile at $35 or so.
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 8:15:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2001 8:13:04 PM EDT by BusMaster007]
I just began to investigate getting a Type 03 Curio & Relic license again. I had one in conjunction with my Type 01 FFL and Ammunition Dealers licenses a few years ago. Some links to check into, besides the one provided above for the BATF, are: [url] what in blue blazes is a cruffler? [/url] [url] OG's[/url] [url] pronounced---" Enjaneer's"[/url] I'm excited about getting the C&R license again. There are so many fascinating firearms and history involved, it's difficult not to get swept up in the hobby. The links ought to give enough information to get you really informed, if not lost, in the Web.
Link Posted: 7/28/2001 8:26:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2001 8:24:49 PM EDT by M1A-A1]
Thank You, Gentleman!!! The info is much appreciated!!!!
Link Posted: 7/29/2001 7:51:21 AM EDT
We should be careful in characterizing only older guns as C&R. Example: The ArmaLite AR-10 was designed in the 50's and production ceased in 1961. The AR-10 is not a C&R gun to the best of my knowledge. The ArmaLite AR-18/180 was designed in the 60's and production ceased in the 80's but these are C&R guns !! As usual the gov moves in strange and mysterious ways. BATF publishes a "specific" list of C&R guns.
Link Posted: 7/29/2001 8:04:01 AM EDT
The AR-10 is not a C&R gun to the best of my knowledge.
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Uh, yes, the Costa Mesa produced AR-10s ARE C&R eligible as are the AR-18s ([b]SECTION IV: National Firearms Act Weapons Classified As Curios Or Relics Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44[/b]), but the AR-180 is NOT. This is why it is advisable to consult the BATF guide concerning these. A collector can also apply to the BATF to have a firearm added to the C&R list as well.
Link Posted: 7/29/2001 8:34:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2001 8:39:14 AM EDT by Jim_Dandy]
[url]http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/curios/sec4.htm[/url] [url]http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/curios/sec2.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 7/29/2001 11:39:09 AM EDT
Jim ,thanks for the correction !! Now if I can just fund a Costa Mesa manufactured AR-10.........
Link Posted: 7/29/2001 2:02:02 PM EDT
I already had an M1 Garand, but since getting my license, I have bought: 1 Yugo M48A (Unissued) $99.00 1 Spanish FR-8 $179.00 2 Turkish Mausers. $ 59.00 each My license has already paid me back for its $30.00 fee on the first purchase, now all the rest are just icing on the cake.
Link Posted: 7/29/2001 4:04:12 PM EDT
scottsw1, where did you get your unissued Yugo?
Link Posted: 7/29/2001 6:09:56 PM EDT
I just love the history of the guns. Another good website for info is www.crufflers.com
Link Posted: 7/30/2001 5:58:07 PM EDT
mtnpatriot, I bought my Yugo from Coles distributing. I know that Mitchells Mausers and Wholesale Guns and Ammo have them also.
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