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Posted: 10/22/2005 8:19:37 AM EDT
I think my problems just stem from getting older and out of shape.


It used to be, when I was in college for example, that I could sit down to study and have intense focus and concentration for as long as I could stay awake. I'd take caffeine and ephedrine pills and study for 20-30 hours with no breaks other than to stretch and piss sometimes. Without the stay awake aids I could do 8 AM to midnight and then go to sleep with no problem.

Now it seems like I can't get past 2-3 hours of solid concentration before I tire and my mind starts to wander.

Any suggestions other than getting in better physical shape?


Link Posted: 10/22/2005 8:29:05 AM EDT
Older, more responsibilites, more distractions.

Sometimes it's hard to get the day "out of your head" and cocentrate on only one thing.
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 8:29:41 AM EDT
Quite smoking weed.

Link Posted: 10/22/2005 8:54:36 AM EDT
Get in better shape. Don't want to be one of those fat survivalist arfcommers, do ya?



Stop concentrating on boring things. I bet if you had a nice pair of boobies in your face you could concentrate for days.
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 9:29:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:
Stop concentrating on boring things. I bet if you had a nice pair of boobies in your face you could concentrate for days.




Yeah, that's the thing ... the stuff that'll make me money is boring.

Link Posted: 10/22/2005 9:30:27 AM EDT
One thing that I have found really helps me is.....oh, look! A chicken! Be right back....



Link Posted: 10/22/2005 9:31:27 AM EDT
Well, the key to concentration is, um, sorry. What were we talking about?
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 9:34:30 AM EDT
GOOD! Im glad to hear Im not the only one going through it. Sometimes I have to read a sentence like 4 or 5 times to let it sink in. Or when people are talking my mind wanders and then they ask a question...

Feel Lost.
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 9:35:56 AM EDT
don't concider this a good way to build concentration, but I hear blind folks have a well developed sence of concentration, or was it hearing?
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 9:42:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By napalm:
Stop concentrating on boring things. I bet if you had a nice pair of boobies in your face you could concentrate for days.




Yeah, that's the thing ... the stuff that'll make me money is boring.




"In this country, you gotta concentrate first. When you get the concentration, you get the money. Then, when you get the money, you get the power. Then, when you get the power,,,then you get the boobies."

What were we talking about?
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 9:42:43 AM EDT
Neurogenex increases memory, cognition and enhances general brain and nervous system function. It increases blood flow to the brain. It increases levels of the predominant neurotransmitter acetylcholine by inhibiting its breakdown. Neurogenex also stimulates the production of acetylcholine and other neurotransmitters by providing their building blocks and precursors. It provides the nutrients necessary for enhanced brain function and metabolism. Neurogenex maintains, fuels and enhances your mind.

Instructions:
Take 2-4 capsules per day. Start with 2 capsules. Neurogenex should be taken in-between meals, at least 15 minutes prior to or 1 hr after to meals. Doses should be spread throughout the day. Under the direction of a physician, those with neurological conditions and/or deterioration can take up to 6 capsules per day.

Huperzine A
Vinpocetine
Bacopa (20% bacosides)
Galantamine
Choline DH Citrate
2-oxo-pyrrolidone
DMAE
Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate
Nicotinamide
Calcium Pantothenate
Vitamin C
Acetyl-l-Tyrosine
Acetyl-l-Carnitine

Other ingredients:
gelatin, magnesium stearate
120 Capsules 1/3 More for the same price


Link to store.
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 9:47:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2005 9:49:43 AM EDT by drjarhead]
Excercise. Physical fitness is a major factor in memory and concentration.

Play Chess

Read

Check your cholesterol, BP

Avoid soda, sweets

Avoid XS alcohol, drugs. Marijauna will really impair memory. What was the question...again...?


Link Posted: 10/22/2005 9:56:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JarheadChiro:
Neurogenex ...



Based on actual (blind and unbiased) clinical trails?


Other than grammatical errors, the webpage from the manufacturer doesn't actually reference ANY clinincal research (despite claiming that clinical trails and research have shown benefits to some of the ingredients). I guess I'm just skeptical, because it wouldn't be hard to link to the trials (if they existed), and this "supplement" looks a lot like some of the other dodgy snake-oil out there.



I'm not saying it doesn't work (I have no idea), I'd just like to see some actual proof behind these sorts of claims that supplements are allowed to make (since they are still unregulated). Maybe this stuff is fantastic.
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 9:57:21 AM EDT
Nutrients, physical exercise, and mental exercise are three keys. People stay sharper into old age if they are dealing with other people, doing new things, etc.

One other thing is vasopressin, available as Diapid nasal spray. It is hard to describe but a couple of shots of this stuff up the nose gives instant clarity of thought, like you have never had before. Vasopressin is a neurotransmitter in the brain. It lasts a couple of hours or so. You have to order the stuff from overseas (perfectly legal) and it is expensive, but it you have to do something mentally demanding it is amazing stuff.
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 10:11:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
Nutrients, physical exercise, and mental exercise are three keys. People stay sharper into old age if they are dealing with other people, doing new things, etc.

One other thing is vasopressin, available as Diapid nasal spray. It is hard to describe but a couple of shots of this stuff up the nose gives instant clarity of thought, like you have never had before. Vasopressin is a neurotransmitter in the brain. It lasts a couple of hours or so. You have to order the stuff from overseas (perfectly legal) and it is expensive, but it you have to do something mentally demanding it is amazing stuff.



1]Vasopressin is not a neurotransmitter, it is a peptide hormone

2]It's effect on memory, if any, are questionable and being studied

3]What you are using may not be vasopressin at all or the least might have other compounds as is so typically the case with such drugs obtained from overseas

4]Vasopressin requires a Rx. While you may find it accesible from overseas it is not legal. Of course, as stated, I would not at all be certain about what it is you are truly shooting up your nose. Best of luck.
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 10:25:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2005 10:27:38 AM EDT by wolfman97]

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
Nutrients, physical exercise, and mental exercise are three keys. People stay sharper into old age if they are dealing with other people, doing new things, etc.

One other thing is vasopressin, available as Diapid nasal spray. It is hard to describe but a couple of shots of this stuff up the nose gives instant clarity of thought, like you have never had before. Vasopressin is a neurotransmitter in the brain. It lasts a couple of hours or so. You have to order the stuff from overseas (perfectly legal) and it is expensive, but it you have to do something mentally demanding it is amazing stuff.



1]Vasopressin is not a neurotransmitter, it is a peptide hormone



I stand corrected. It has been a while since I read the book on the topic.


2]It's effect on memory, if any, are questionable and being studied


It clearly works. Something like an instant cup of coffee.


3]What you are using may not be vasopressin at all or the least might have other compounds as is so typically the case with such drugs obtained from overseas


It was obtained from a reputable, licensed European pharmaceutical manufacturer.


4]Vasopressin requires a Rx. While you may find it accesible from overseas it is not legal. Of course, as stated, I would not at all be certain about what it is you are truly shooting up your nose. Best of luck.


It is not legal for sale in the US. It is legal to import for personal use under existing FDA rules. There are lots of drugs that fall into the same category. The regulations on production of these drugs in many other countries is just as good as it is here in the US. There is no particular reason to doubt the quality of drugs produced in Canada or most countries in Europe. With intelligent shopping, consumers shouldn't have a problem getting a good product.

The biggest drawback is that it is pretty expensive.

ETA: For some interesting reading search the net for terms like "smart drugs" "smart nutrients" and "nootropic"
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 10:27:09 AM EDT
If there is a woman in the house, grab the duct tape and...

Link Posted: 10/22/2005 10:29:00 AM EDT
The easiest, surefire way to improve your concentration is to.........

.......huh?............

..........................................................now, what were we talking about again????
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 10:32:33 AM EDT
Adderall (amphetamine sulfate). It's all the rage with college kids.

One thing that improved my ability to read and concentrate beyond anything else, was floating in a sensory deprivation tank. Unfortunately, the only place I could find one 10 years ago was Los Angeles. But after floating in one for 2 hours, I was so incredibly relaxed and at peace, and decided to read some Aristotle on the bus that had been giving me problems. Sometimes you can read an entire page of some of his work on nature and physics, sit back and ask yourself "OK, what is he saying?" and be unable to answer.

Well, after floating in the tank, I was able to keep right up with him, and my mind wouldn't drift off while reading. It was pretty remarkable.
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 10:36:21 AM EDT
Sleep.
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 10:49:25 AM EDT
I've noticed that meditation helps too. But you need to do it every day for at least 1/2 hour.
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 10:50:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 11:00:49 AM EDT
"Any good ways to improve your ability to concentrate?"

I'm sorry, could you repeat that? What was the question again? No seriously, I always heard soy lecithin helped memory, etc.-
Lee
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 11:33:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:



2]It's effect on memory, if any, are questionable and being studied


It clearly works. Something like an instant cup of coffee.



Don't take this personally but your saying it "clearly works" means nothing. It is what is known as anectdotal evidence. And with a sample size of 1...well, you get the point.
Further, I remain unconvinced as to what it is that you are actually using.

Fact is that in well controlled reputable studies it has not been proven to have the effect you claim which is one reason I question exactly what it is you are shooting up your nose. There are plenty of examples of meds obtained from foreign sources that have some questionable drugs added.

Finally, I consider it dangerous to play games with your neuroendocrine system. I have come to have considerable respect for the meds I prescribe. Too many play around with this shit like it is their big brother's erector set, medical professionals included.
The ones that really get me are the ones who give friends and neighbors their medications. Sometimes it is antibiiotics, sometimes, narcotics, sometimes potentially harmful systemic meds they give people jsut assuming it will help without even knowing what the med is for!
And then there are the pts who come in and tell you they took someone elses meds but can't even tell you what it is.




It is not legal for sale in the US.


Of course it is. I have prescribed it many times.


It is legal to import for personal use under existing FDA rules. There are lots of drugs that fall into the same category.


www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/alerts/medication_drugs.xml

Medication/Drugs

The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the Act) prohibits persons from importing into the United States any prescription drug that has not been approved for sale by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA), or which is adulterated or misbranded within the meaning of the Act. Moreover, in those instances where a United States manufacturer makes an FDA-approved prescription drug and sends it abroad, the Act also prohibits any person other than the original manufacturer from importing the drug back into the United States. Thus, in virtually all instances, individual citizens are prohibited from importing prescription drugs into the United States.

Now I will agree that FDA is not going to come after you.
I will further agree that I don't know everything so if you have some reputable soucre to PROVE that this is legal I would be interested in checking it out.
Additionally, I don't care what you buy or use, or how you get it, just trying to give out good info.




The regulations on production of these drugs in many other countries is just as good as it is here in the US. There is no particular reason to doubt the quality of drugs produced in Canada or most countries in Europe.


I agree.
That doesn't confirm what you are using in the case you describe.




ETA: For some interesting reading search the net for terms like "smart drugs" "smart nutrients" and "nootropic"


Yeah, if it doesn't kill you first time, it must be okay.
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 11:34:28 AM EDT
I don't know about this SPECIFIC product. BUT I was gonna suggest some Acetyl-l-Carnitine, PS and possibly upping the amount of omega 3's you take (depending upon how much you're getting NOW and depending upon what if any OTHER medicines/suppliments you might be taking that can thin the blood.) and if you're doing any less-than-leagal substances that you either cut WAY back, or just cut it out all together - and ditto w/alcohol.

Phosphatidylserine (PS), PS is a phospholipid enriched in the brain, validated through double-blind trials for improving memory, learning, concentration, word recall, and mood in middle-aged and elderly subjects with dementia or age-related cognitive decline. (Are you "old enough"? )

The Huperzine A is mostly a memory boost - and good results w/Alzheimer's symptoms. Double-blind study completed in China (only one I know about - could be more)... so I wouldn't THINK it would help "concentration" per se.

As to the Vinpocetine, the only double-blind studies I'm aware of were geared to dementia and/or memory (w/no benefit re:Alzheimer's) and I didn't see/recall anything about concentration.

The Brahmi (aka Bacopa monniera) again is basically (to my knowledge) more memory related than concentration.

The other ingredients, I've never even heard of. My guess is that this is a "shotgun" concoction (which, IME, is a good way to proceed, at least initially, that's what I did w/the MS, anyway, and it worked, then I removed each individual component for a month to see what might occurr... fortunately, I started w/the omega 3's, and that was the BIG one (w/the MS) so...) but look into the other ingredients, and further into the ones I noted. You'll get it. It's a good starting point, anyway, IMO.

That's all that comes to mind.
Best of luck. Hope this helps.


Originally Posted By JarheadChiro:
Neurogenex increases memory, cognition and enhances general brain and nervous system function. It increases blood flow to the brain. It increases levels of the predominant neurotransmitter acetylcholine by inhibiting its breakdown. Neurogenex also stimulates the production of acetylcholine and other neurotransmitters by providing their building blocks and precursors. It provides the nutrients necessary for enhanced brain function and metabolism. Neurogenex maintains, fuels and enhances your mind.

Instructions:
Take 2-4 capsules per day. Start with 2 capsules. Neurogenex should be taken in-between meals, at least 15 minutes prior to or 1 hr after to meals. Doses should be spread throughout the day. Under the direction of a physician, those with neurological conditions and/or deterioration can take up to 6 capsules per day.

Huperzine A
Vinpocetine
Bacopa (20% bacosides)
Galantamine
Choline DH Citrate
2-oxo-pyrrolidone
DMAE
Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate
Nicotinamide
Calcium Pantothenate
Vitamin C
Acetyl-l-Tyrosine
Acetyl-l-Carnitine

Other ingredients:
gelatin, magnesium stearate
120 Capsules 1/3 More for the same price


Link to store.

Link Posted: 10/22/2005 11:49:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By napalm:
Stop concentrating on boring things. I bet if you had a nice pair of boobies in your face you could concentrate for days.




Yeah, that's the thing ... the stuff that'll make me money is boring.





Boobies make money. They're not boring.
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 12:38:14 PM EDT
Interesting.


Seems there is no supplement/drug/etc. that has been PROVEN to help with these things.

I didn't expect there to be since if there was, everyone would be on it.



Guess I'll just have to stick with the "get more exercize" plan.


Link Posted: 10/22/2005 2:36:19 PM EDT
Toss a tennis ball gently up the stairs and catch as it bounces down. Then strong hand. Then weak. Then with one eye closed, etc.
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 2:45:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2005 2:46:45 PM EDT by clement]
Get off Caffeine. Not only will you have more concentration without it...when you do take it (ONLY when needed)....it will give you the boost it used to do.

Eating right, exercizing, and getting enough sleep (go to sleep earlier) will all help too!
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 2:49:35 PM EDT

Neurogenex increases memory, cognition and enhances general brain and nervous system function.

Yes it does! The father of the owner of the company I work for is in his mid-90's, and the stuff changes him from completely non-functional to where he can work for us a few hours a day. Without it, he couldn't even watch a TV show because he couldn't remember what was going on long enough for the show to make sense. Now he can enjoy TV again. After seeing how it helped his father, he bought a bottle for me...

I'm 77, and I often have to program 80 or more hours per week in addition to my full-time job as GM here. I did four 20 hour long work days over six days this week to finish a software project for a doctors office. The bottle recommends two pills, but I take one every four hours to be able to concentrate and remember. I don't know what ingredient in it helps me, but the stuff works very well.

Between ten and fifteen years ago I used to take a ton of ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin to get through 16 hour long shifts at work. I'm glad I found Neurogenex since I'm not comfortable continuously taking ephedrine at my age. It has also allowed me to cut back on coffee.z
Link Posted: 10/22/2005 10:34:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Adderall (amphetamine sulfate). It's all the rage with college kids.

.



Yeah... too bad that FDA is pulling it because of something like 20 cases of sudden death. Some scary stuff....

Canada Regulators Order Top-Selling ADD Drug Withdrawn.
Feb 10, 2005

Canada pulled the top-selling ADHD drug Adderall XR, citing the sudden death of some patients. Adderall XR was pulled off Canadian shelves Wednesday (Feb. 9, 2005) after Adderall manufacturer Shire provided information about 20 sudden deaths in patients taking this popular ADHD medication.

"Health Canada is advising patients who are currently being treated with Adderall XR to consult their physician immediately about use of the drug and selecting treatment alternatives,” the Canadian health department said in a statement released yesterday.

Adderall is linked to 20 deaths - 14 children and 6 adults. Adderall is also linked to 12 strokes, two of which occurred in children. The adverse reactions were not associated with overdose, misuse or abuse of the drug, Health Canada said.

Of its decision to ban Adderall XR, Health Canada said the incidence of serious, adverse reactions leading to death were found to be higher in Adderall XR than other ADHD drugs.

Adderall XR is prescribed to about 11,000 Canadians. About 700,000 people take Adderall XR in the United States, with about 300,000 more using Adderall. Canadian officials approved Adderall XR in January 2004. A immediate-release form of Adderall XR, sold simply as “Adderall”, is not sold in Canada.

The FDA said it evaluated the same reports as Canadian regulators but did not believe the data warranted a ban in the United States. Instead of removing Adderall XR from US shelves, the FDA modified Adderall XR use instructions, stressing that Adderall XR should not be used in children or adults with heart defects.

In response to Health Canada’s withdraw of Adderall XR, the following statement was posted on the FDA web site Wednesday; the FDA "does not feel that any immediate changes are warranted in the FDA labeling or approved use of this drug based upon its preliminary understanding of Health Canada's analyses of adverse event reports and FDA's own knowledge and assessment of the reports received by the agency."

Shire officials "strongly disagreed" with Health Canada's actions. "We continue to be confident in the safety and efficacy of Adderall XR," said Shire spokesman Matt Cabrey.

Drug regulators across the world are taking an increasingly tough stance on the safety of medicines following a number of high-profile scandals. In September Merck withdrew Vioxx, a popular arthritis painkiller, after clinical tests showed it raised the risk of heart attacks.

The number of deaths caused by Adderall XR make up a very small percent of people using the drug. However, if that one death is you or someone you love, that fact is little consolation. Sudden death is the worst side effect of Adderall, but certainly not the only one. This ADHD medication news follows closely on the tail of news that links Strattera to liver damage. If you or someone you love is currently taking Adderall XR, Strattera or other medication for Attention Deficit Disorder, please consider safe alternatives.

Back to Archived Newsletter page.

Link Posted: 10/23/2005 8:10:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:



2]It's effect on memory, if any, are questionable and being studied


It clearly works. Something like an instant cup of coffee.



Don't take this personally but your saying it "clearly works" means nothing. It is what is known as anectdotal evidence. And with a sample size of 1...well, you get the point.



If you prescribe these things then you ought to know that in about one-third of research cases even placebos produce the desired result and, therefore, "work".



Further, I remain unconvinced as to what it is that you are actually using.



Yes, you weren't there, were you?


Fact is that in well controlled reputable studies it has not been proven to have the effect you claim which is one reason I question exactly what it is you are shooting up your nose.




There are plenty of examples of meds obtained from foreign sources that have some questionable drugs added.


And there are plenty of examples of meds obtained from foreign sources that are manufactured by the same companies, plants, and/or processes sold in the US. As stated before, it is up to you to be an intelligent consumer on anything.


Finally, I consider it dangerous to play games with your neuroendocrine system. I have come to have considerable respect for the meds I prescribe. Too many play around with this shit like it is their big brother's erector set, medical professionals included.


I feel the same way about everything from cheeseburgers to the over-the-counter nutrients and food supplements sold in every shopping mall.


The ones that really get me are the ones who give friends and neighbors their medications. Sometimes it is antibiiotics, sometimes, narcotics, sometimes potentially harmful systemic meds they give people jsut assuming it will help without even knowing what the med is for!
And then there are the pts who come in and tell you they took someone elses meds but can't even tell you what it is.



That's really dumb, particularly with the amount of information available on anything today.



It is not legal for sale in the US.


Of course it is. I have prescribed it many times.



It was not yet approved in the US at the time I encountered it.



It is legal to import for personal use under existing FDA rules. There are lots of drugs that fall into the same category.


www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/alerts/medication_drugs.xml

Medication/Drugs

The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the Act) prohibits persons from importing into the United States any prescription drug that has not been approved for sale by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA), or which is adulterated or misbranded within the meaning of the Act. Moreover, in those instances where a United States manufacturer makes an FDA-approved prescription drug and sends it abroad, the Act also prohibits any person other than the original manufacturer from importing the drug back into the United States. Thus, in virtually all instances, individual citizens are prohibited from importing prescription drugs into the United States.

Now I will agree that FDA is not going to come after you.
I will further agree that I don't know everything so if you have some reputable soucre to PROVE that this is legal I would be interested in checking it out.



FDA Personal Use Import Policy

This has been in effect in one form or another basically forever. A person can import a 90-day personal use supply of basically any drug that is not specifically excluded. My mother used to do it before she died. I was with her on a number of occasions when she went across the border and loaded up a shopping bag with prescription drugs and just walked it back through Customs. She reported the purpose of her trip to the Customs inspectors and let them look in the bag. They didn't give her so much as a nod in response. There are lots of older folks doing it because lots of these meds are much, much cheaper than in the US, even though they come from the same companies and plants in many cases.



Additionally, I don't care what you buy or use, or how you get it, just trying to give out good info.



Fair enough. BTW, do you have anything to say the effects, good or bad, of arginine and ornithine? I have seen those do some remarkable things.


That doesn't confirm what you are using in the case you describe.


Well, at this late date, all we have is the testimony of one participant, so . . . .



Yeah, if it doesn't kill you first time, it must be okay.



How about "Be an intelligent consumer"? You know, like when you purchase dangerous shit like ammunition.
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 8:17:18 AM EDT
Read GD less often?
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 8:27:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By zoom:

Neurogenex increases memory, cognition and enhances general brain and nervous system function.

Yes it does! The father of the owner of the company I work for is in his mid-90's, and the stuff changes him from completely non-functional to where he can work for us a few hours a day. Without it, he couldn't even watch a TV show because he couldn't remember what was going on long enough for the show to make sense. Now he can enjoy TV again. After seeing how it helped his father, he bought a bottle for me...

I'm 77, and I often have to program 80 or more hours per week in addition to my full-time job as GM here. I did four 20 hour long work days over six days this week to finish a software project for a doctors office. The bottle recommends two pills, but I take one every four hours to be able to concentrate and remember. I don't know what ingredient in it helps me, but the stuff works very well.

Between ten and fifteen years ago I used to take a ton of ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin to get through 16 hour long shifts at work. I'm glad I found Neurogenex since I'm not comfortable continuously taking ephedrine at my age. It has also allowed me to cut back on coffee.z



There has been some research lately that indicates that omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) are important for at least some people in maintaining an even keel, so to speak. Lack of them may cause various mental issues.

There are a couple of other food supplements that I have found important to staying young and feeling young generally. They are Arginine and Ornithine. These are growth hormone releasers. After a certain point in life your body stops producing so much growth hormone and these stimulate your body to produce more growth hormone. Your muscles grow.

Now there will be people who will tell you that this is bullshit and unproven, but I can tell you of what happened in my case. I started taking them when I was about 35. I weighed about 165 and I was flabby and had no muscle definition at all. Men normally lose about one-third of their muscle mass between age 35 and 65.

By the time I was 45 I was a very solid 190 pounds and all of the additional weight was muscle. This happened without any real exercise on my part. I went from a perfect 38 suit coat to a perfect 42 with the same size waist. I gained about two inches around my neck and I had good muscle definition. My wife even asked me to stop because I was starting to look like a bodybuilder and she doesn't like that look. I felt great as a result. I was much stronger and I felt younger and more fit. No negative effects that I can report -- other than the fact that I had to buy all new suits, sports jackets, and shirts.

People will tell you this is bullshit for one reason or another. No one who knows me and saw the difference would tell you that.

Another thing with interesting properties is DMSO. That does some amazing stuff sometimes.
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 8:46:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
Interesting.


Seems there is no supplement/drug/etc. that has been PROVEN to help with these things.

I didn't expect there to be since if there was, everyone would be on it.



Guess I'll just have to stick with the "get more exercize" plan.





Actually, IIRC, there is one that is proven to work. IIRC, UC Berkeley has a patent on a combination of l-carnitine and alpha-lypoic acid that has been proven scientifically to combat aging in general.
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 8:52:28 AM EDT
..
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 8:57:50 AM EDT
Where did I leave my beer?
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 9:56:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2005 10:03:30 AM EDT by drjarhead]
Wolfman,
FDA and customs policies are different from the law as I believe I have already stated. It is one thing to say that it is not enforced, it is another to say that it is legal.

Arginine and ornithine are amino acids. Simple as that. Present in most foods.
You may have seen this stuff do remarkable things, so have I seen magicians do the same.

Absolutely, placebo effect is a real thing as I was alluding to in your case without being insulting about it. Not to mention that, once again, in light of the fact that vasopressin has not been demonstrated in controlled studies to do what you claim, that you may be using something with another drug(s).
No I wasn't there, and I am no more certain about what you used than you are regardless what you think.

Medications are far different from foods though I agree that both should be consumed or used intelligently. Medications, for the most part, are potentially toxic by definition. They must be.
Ammunition should be used cautiously, agreed. But I wouldn't point my gun at someone and then say, "no sweat, safety is on."

Not sure when you started using vasopressin but it has been around for quite a while.

I have people come and tell me that magnets in their shoes, around their wrists, etc help. And then they try to get me to hawk them for them. I have people tell me colloidal silver saved their life, yada, yada, yada. I all means nothing if the benefits are not demonstrated in controlled studies. One nurse trying to get me to push and sell her magic magnets said begrudgingly, "You doctors are the hardest ones to convince."
I told her, "That is exactly how it is supposed to be."
Then she got it. WE are scientists first, not snake oil salesmen though there are plenty who would like to relegate us to that staus: Patients, corporate medical administrators, etc, etc, etc, etc.



If nothing else, there are always tabasco enemas. Like garlic, and omega 3 FAs, colloidal silver, sumbucol, I hear they are supposed to cure just about everything.
THAT IS A JOKE IN CASE NO ONE FIGURED IT OUT. PLEASE DON'T TRY THAT AT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 10:02:08 AM EDT
I've heard on several occasions about the benefits of fresh sage improving memory..??

--VT
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 10:12:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

I have people come and tell me that magnets in their shoes, around their wrists, etc help. And then they try to get me to hawk them for them. I have people tell me colloidal silver saved their life, yada, yada, yada. I all means nothing if the benefits are not demonstrated in controlled studies. One nurse trying to get me to push and sell her magic magnets said begrudgingly, "You doctors are the hardest ones to convince."
I told her, "That is exactly how it is supposed to be."
Then she got it. WE are scientists first, not snake oil salesmen though there are plenty who would like to relegate us to that staus: Patients, corporate medical administrators, etc, etc, etc, etc.



When I asked a vendor who was pitching their quack remedy at the local holistic/naturopathic health fair about any controlled peer-reviewed studies published in medical journals, their response was that it's unethical to withhold their miracle cure from the control group. Never mind that they could get it after the clinical trial was over, and that it was low back pain we were talking about and not cancer or any other terminal condition.

But later I did run across a "study" for a similar device. They essentially just asked the patients things like, "do you feel better since starting treatment with the 'flax-G' (name made up) system?" And then wrote things like, "67% of the patients improved with 'flax-G' "
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 10:34:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2005 10:40:54 AM EDT by drjarhead]

Originally Posted By prk:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

I have people come and tell me that magnets in their shoes, around their wrists, etc help. And then they try to get me to hawk them for them. I have people tell me colloidal silver saved their life, yada, yada, yada. I all means nothing if the benefits are not demonstrated in controlled studies. One nurse trying to get me to push and sell her magic magnets said begrudgingly, "You doctors are the hardest ones to convince."
I told her, "That is exactly how it is supposed to be."
Then she got it. WE are scientists first, not snake oil salesmen though there are plenty who would like to relegate us to that staus: Patients, corporate medical administrators, etc, etc, etc, etc.



When I asked a vendor who was pitching their quack remedy at the local holistic/naturopathic health fair about any controlled peer-reviewed studies published in medical journals, their response was that it's unethical to withhold their miracle cure from the control group. Never mind that they could get it after the clinical trial was over, and that it was low back pain we were talking about and not cancer or any other terminal condition.

But later I did run across a "study" for a similar device. They essentially just asked the patients things like, "do you feel better since starting treatment with the 'flax-G' (name made up) system?" And then wrote things like, "67% of the patients improved with 'flax-G' "



Yeah, it is really something to listen to some of them.
I have even had a few physicians I once had considerable respect for jump on some of these bandwagons. Gotta make money and anymore it is Burger King, "Have it your way" crap medicine. I'd rather do something else for a living.
Even using legit meds I see docs giving shit out to pts who don't need it just to make them happy and keep them coming back. I have considerable respect for the meds I prescribe and even then I overprescribe some or I would have gone out of business. It is a sad situation. It is costly, wasteful and potentially dangerous.

I would also say that I scrutinize some of the medical studies for the placebo effect. In virtually every subjective study I have seen the rate of improvement for those on placebo v drug in controlled studies are not all that far apart. As a result I expecially use new pipeline drugs with great caution and typically wait a couple of years to see what happens with them. Plenty of these new "pipeline" drugs have turned out to be plenty harmful. Not on my patients.
And people should understand I am trying to look out for them, but they get their 80 IQ all convinced that this is what they want or need. Nor are they intelligent enough to understand what I am telling them about their reasoning and assumptions. Some just go elsewhere until they get what they want and in all honesty that is alright with me. I've got to look myslef in the mirror every morning and that is not a problem. Never has been. I know full well how much integrity and honesty I have, I know how smart I am, I know the quality of care I gave patients, though I am not perfect, of course.

DISCLAIMER:
I think it is fair of me to point out that I quit my job 2 months ago and am not sure whether I am even going to practice medicine again so you can all take everything I say in that context. I miss my partners, the nurses I worked with, but not the patients. As a group(generalization) you're all fucking nuts. About 40-50% mentally ill, 50-60% on medical assistance and welfare, 15% drug seekers. I am sick of all of you them. Nothing personal.
But I don't give a shit anymore.
Just thought it was fair that I say that.
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 10:54:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:


...Plenty of these new "pipeline" drugs have turned out to be plenty harmful. Not on my patients.
...



Could have happened to me but fortunately I didn't tolerate the GI effects. My liver is still intact as a result.

BTW- there seems to be confusion on what combinations of aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, acetaminophen are relatively OK (if you limit the combined dosage to the label maximum for of any single one, say one aspirin and one ibuprofen twice a day). I thought it was ibuprofen & naproxen that shouldn't be taken together, the pharmacist said aspirin and any other, and a nurse said don't take any combinations. Where is a good place to check that?
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 11:57:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Wolfman,
FDA and customs policies are different from the law as I believe I have already stated. It is one thing to say that it is not enforced, it is another to say that it is legal.



It is perfectly legal. If it is within their policy, then their policy must be in concert with the law. Done all the time, with government approval. Been going on for years and highly publicized. AIDS groups have been doing it for many years. It is what is keeping a lot of senior citizens alive.


Arginine and ornithine are amino acids. Simple as that. Present in most foods.
You may have seen this stuff do remarkable things, so have I seen magicians do the same.



This wasn't a magic act. I have never been to a magic act where I had to buy new shirts when I left. If you take the stuff as a supplement it does cause muscle growth. As you may know from your own research, they have found that older people look and act significantly younger if they are give growth hormone. That's because some of the bad effects of aging are simply due to muscle weakness.


Absolutely, placebo effect is a real thing as I was alluding to in your case without being insulting about it. Not to mention that, once again, in light of the fact that vasopressin has not been demonstrated in controlled studies to do what you claim, that you may be using something with another drug(s).
No I wasn't there, and I am no more certain about what you used than you are regardless what you think.



I can read a label and tell what something is -- and who makes it -- as well as you can, thanks.


Medications are far different from foods though I agree that both should be consumed or used intelligently. Medications, for the most part, are potentially toxic by definition. They must be.
Ammunition should be used cautiously, agreed. But I wouldn't point my gun at someone and then say, "no sweat, safety is on."



And potatoes are deadly in sufficient quantity. Water is deadly in sufficient quantity. Cheeseburgers can be deadly, too.


Not sure when you started using vasopressin but it has been around for quite a while.


My contact with it was some time ago, more than ten years.


I have people come and tell me that magnets in their shoes, around their wrists, etc help. And then they try to get me to hawk them for them. I have people tell me colloidal silver saved their life, yada, yada, yada. I all means nothing if the benefits are not demonstrated in controlled studies. One nurse trying to get me to push and sell her magic magnets said begrudgingly, "You doctors are the hardest ones to convince."
I told her, "That is exactly how it is supposed to be."
Then she got it. WE are scientists first, not snake oil salesmen though there are plenty who would like to relegate us to that staus: Patients, corporate medical administrators, etc, etc, etc, etc.



Yeah, that is as it should be, and I have heard it from doctors before. You may not have a research paper that shows that 1,000 people went through such-and-such a trial with such-and-such results. I can tell you absolutely for sure that some of the stuff does work whether you think it is placebo or just wishful thinking. Arginine and ornithine, in particular, had a very clear visible effect on me that everyone around could see and confirm. No question at all that I got stronger and put on more muscle - so much so that I had to buy new shirts -- at a time when most men are losing muscle mass. And I did that without any exercise. I invite anyone to try it themselves and see. For me, I thought I was feeling something different about thirty days after I started using it, but I was still unsure. After about six months there was no question that it was making a difference in my muscle size and tone. Other people could see it and commented on it. I have told other people about it and they have had similar experiences.

I would suggest that you try it yourself. As you say, it is common stuff found in foods, the risk is low and, if you have some older patients they could find it tremendously helpful.
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 12:01:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By prk:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

I have people come and tell me that magnets in their shoes, around their wrists, etc help. And then they try to get me to hawk them for them. I have people tell me colloidal silver saved their life, yada, yada, yada. I all means nothing if the benefits are not demonstrated in controlled studies. One nurse trying to get me to push and sell her magic magnets said begrudgingly, "You doctors are the hardest ones to convince."
I told her, "That is exactly how it is supposed to be."
Then she got it. WE are scientists first, not snake oil salesmen though there are plenty who would like to relegate us to that staus: Patients, corporate medical administrators, etc, etc, etc, etc.



When I asked a vendor who was pitching their quack remedy at the local holistic/naturopathic health fair about any controlled peer-reviewed studies published in medical journals, their response was that it's unethical to withhold their miracle cure from the control group. Never mind that they could get it after the clinical trial was over, and that it was low back pain we were talking about and not cancer or any other terminal condition.

But later I did run across a "study" for a similar device. They essentially just asked the patients things like, "do you feel better since starting treatment with the 'flax-G' (name made up) system?" And then wrote things like, "67% of the patients improved with 'flax-G' "



There is no doubt that there are a lot of quacks and a lot of ridiculous claims out there. On the other hand, try taking arginine and ornithine for about thee to six months. It is an ordinary food supplement that you can get at any health food store. You will see a difference in your muscle mass, if you do. I don't have any approved medical research to prove that, but you can have some of my old shirts.
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 12:07:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2005 12:08:55 AM EDT by skich]
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 5:33:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2005 5:37:17 AM EDT by Fenian]
Supposedly, fish oil can help improve brain function...beneficial effect of the omega 3s in it, specifically the DHA. Also, be aware that taking statins (lipitor, etc) can have a very adverse effect on brain function.

here...edumacate yourself.
www.askdrsears.com/html/4/T040900.asp

25% of your body's cholesterol is in your brain. There's a reason for that. Contrary to what the medical establishment would have you believe, high cholesterol is not bad for you. As a matter of fact, recent studies seem to indicate lowering your cholesterol when you're over 50 will actually make it MORE likely for you to have a heart attack, not less. But gee, those statins are making a LOT of money for the drug companies.
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 5:42:19 AM EDT
... Nothing clears my mind and improves my sense of well being as much as a good work-out. A close second is a long aerobic bicycle ride. I've come to the conclusion that it's true: Sedentary lifestyle kills.
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 5:49:41 AM EDT
Exercise (after all, it is more mental than physical) and, believe it or not, computer games. Challenging computer games like some of the more serious first person shooters (Stuff like Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, etc, not arcade-style stuff like Medal Of Honor or DOOM) or the really serious flight sims. Those have always done it for me when it comes to sharpening my situational awareness and concentration. Just get any fairly challenging game that challenges your mental reflexes, after all, mental stuff is really a use or lose proposition. It's also like a knife in that you want to work on keeping it sharp as it will dull over time with lack of use/inactivity. Shooting is another really good one, if you can't get out and actually shoot, get ahold of some BB guns (particularly the traditional pellet guns, airsoft guns are a little bit too easy to shoot IMHO). Since there's no recoil and very little noise with a BB gun, it allows you to focus on marksmanship, which also hones your mental and physical reflexes and ability to control yourself. Just find some sort of game or recreational activity that will challenge your mind/mental reflexes.
Link Posted: 10/24/2005 6:03:44 AM EDT
I wonder about concentration too. I think Windows [MS] was the downfall of heavy thinkers. Just my theory mind you - but I think the constant bumping back and forth between windows and scanning for fact and what I call "meat and potatoes" trains the brain not to concentrate.

I think exercise is important and meditation as well. Turn off all back ground noise and sit, relax and concentrate on something and do not allow your mind to wonder. It takes discipline.

I think reading is important too. When you read do not scan for the important parts. Read an entire article, if something catches your interest, check out the bibliography and follow up with more detailed information and form your own conclusion.

Do not let others do the thinking for you.

I also try to do one cross word puzzle a day. This is very difficult for me. I've never had what I would consider a good vocabulary [which is an omen for a public speaker] but my vocabulary is improving.

I read strictly non fiction and when I come to something I do not understand, I will look it up and re-read it when I understand it better.

The other thing to ask yourself is how well do you listen? When someone is talking to you, how well do you listen and concentrate on what is being said? When I was in office I had loads of people telling me all kinds of crap. Most of which was BS some of it was very valuable. In order to handle as much info as I had to do succeed - I learned to listen to several people at once and zone out most of what was being said to me and pick out the meat and potatoes. Its a very bad habit. This habit was useful when I was in Radio because there was so much technical stuff I had to do that I had to concentrate on that as well as what was being said. I'm trying to break myself of these habits.

I'm not the sharpest stick in the forest but I try to do the best with what I have.
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 9:12:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
If nothing else, there are always tabasco enemas. Like garlic, and omega 3 FAs, colloidal silver, sumbucol, I hear they are supposed to cure just about everything.
THAT IS A JOKE IN CASE NO ONE FIGURED IT OUT. PLEASE DON'T TRY THAT AT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



All I'm sayin' is that I DO expect an appology in 5-10 years when the studies conclude that Omega 3 deficiency IS the cause of a VAST quantity of diseases. That's all.

Also, I'm sorry to hear about your withdrawal from your profession, but perhaphs it's for the best, as you did seem to have issues around the BS the patients tended to "deal out". (And I do NOT blame you a BIT) Hope you find something more to your liking.


Originally Posted By Fenian:
Supposedly, fish oil can help improve brain function...beneficial effect of the omega 3s in it, specifically the DHA. Also, be aware that taking statins (lipitor, etc) can have a very adverse effect on brain function.

here...edumacate yourself.
www.askdrsears.com/html/4/T040900.asp

25% of your body's cholesterol is in your brain. There's a reason for that. Contrary to what the medical establishment would have you believe, high cholesterol is not bad for you. As a matter of fact, recent studies seem to indicate lowering your cholesterol when you're over 50 will actually make it MORE likely for you to have a heart attack, not less. But gee, those statins are making a LOT of money for the drug companies.



That's mostly new., and interesting. Thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 10/25/2005 9:53:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kacer:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
If nothing else, there are always tabasco enemas. Like garlic, and omega 3 FAs, colloidal silver, sumbucol, I hear they are supposed to cure just about everything.
THAT IS A JOKE IN CASE NO ONE FIGURED IT OUT. PLEASE DON'T TRY THAT AT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



All I'm sayin' is that I DO expect an appology in 5-10 years when the studies conclude that Omega 3 deficiency IS the cause of a VAST quantity of diseases. That's all.



Su-u-r-r-e....
But don't hold your breath.


Also, I'm sorry to hear about your withdrawal from your profession, but perhaphs it's for the best, as you did seem to have issues around the BS the patients tended to "deal out". (And I do NOT blame you a BIT) Hope you find something more to your liking.


I appreciate that though I am not sorry at all. I am happier right now than I have been in years.
Probably should have been a radiologist but I always had a generalist mentality and was VERY good at diagnosis. The world of corporate medicine though is the suck and most of the pts I saw were nuts. Good riddance to both. One thing I always found interesting was that the docs who were the smartest were most disillusioned with what they did while many of those less qualified were just happy someone let them play doctor and make lots of money. Not that most docs are bad, quite the contrary.


FWIW, I have serious reservations about the use of statins myself, as I do with the use, overuse, and abuse of MANY medications. Don't get me wrong, they have their place, but giving meds just to treat pts symptoms, real or perceived is bullshit IMO. Make a diagnosis for crying out loud, talk about liefstyle changes, etc. People would be better served all the way around. Instead the propensity towards diagnosis of "syndromes" and "disorders" is just flat out bullshit. The longer I did this the more I saw the lack of a true disease diagnosis, or even the lack of understanding of what these diseases were in fact, as more of a problem. But hey, just throw a pill at it and see what happens.
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