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Posted: 7/25/2001 12:12:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 12:26:49 AM EDT
I'm calling the cops!
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 12:31:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 12:32:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2001 12:31:48 AM EDT by Beagles747]
Very well said.... I agree way to many people on here lately throwing "That's illegal" phrase around. Part of that is there's a lot of knowledgeable people on this board and they see something that might be in a configuration that may be illegal so they have to voice their opinion so they can be the first to say "I caught it first". I have read a lot of posts about the laws and notice quite a few people misinterpret the law often. Then when they are drilled by some of our more knowledgeable members and they finally realize they are wrong they blame there ignorance on the way it is written. I'm the first one to admit when I misinterpret something and will always ask questions to find the truth. With the laws being to jacked up as they are you can have your head spinning off trying to figure some of this stuff out! As a courtesy to fellow gun owners here, I think we should e-mail privately when we think an issue is present that may be an infringement of the law. No need to stir the pot of there's nothing there to stir....as was the case recently with the milled off Bayo lug. John
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 12:33:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: I'm calling the cops!
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That 10/22 in your sig icon is obviously an illegal assualt weapon, it has a folding stock and a pistol grip![;)]
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NO! I saw one of those revolver things on TV and they are Full Auto and illegal!
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 12:36:45 AM EDT
LOL, thats a good term neutered, as in de-balled, castrated etc. Good term to use!
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 12:42:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman: Chill-out guys, and quit playing junior ATF agents.
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Screw you, I'm only 3 busts away from my junior F-Troop badge. Keep 'em coming boys...
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 12:46:27 AM EDT
yeah nice choice of words but there are times when we need to jump on some guy ie the "hey is this pre 81 DIAS legal" Or " how do i make my ar15 into a m16" course there probly a troll anyway
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 12:54:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2001 12:57:23 AM EDT by HKocher]
Originally Posted By cyrax777: yeah nice choice of words but there are times when we need to jump on some guy ie the "hey is this pre 81 DIAS legal" Or " how do i make my ar15 into a m16" course there probly a troll anyway
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I agree, there are some idiots or trolls around here. The whole, "how do I make suppressor/silencer/m16/etc." deal is really annoying. I tend to believe these are youngin' that can't even legally own a firearm yet. I definitely think folks should be discrete (email) members about potential illegal modifications. But I don't think the situation should be ignored, because there are some 'uneducated' folks (or stupid) out there, that do NOT know the gun laws, or choose to ignore them. But let's do as SR recommended and keep it discreet! Shouldn't be much of a problem, since most AR15.com people know their stuff...
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 12:59:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 2:20:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cyrax777: yeah nice choice of words but there are times when we need to jump on some guy ie the "hey is this pre 81 DIAS legal" Or " how do i make my ar15 into a m16" course there probly a troll anyway
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HEY! that's illegal 7th curcuit court define pre 81 diaz possession of a machinegun. [:E] geez! iam an atf agent! [:E]
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 2:26:03 AM EDT
Save us from reasonable people. There is nothing reasonable about the gun laws, they are each and every one of them an infringement on our basic rights as Americans. Not a single one of them help fight crime or keep us any safer, each one does exactly the opposite. I know better than every single government lackey and beurocrat as to what I need to protect my family and live my life as a good contributing citizen. So screw each and every one of their laws, even the oh-so-reasonable-ones. Do it for *your* children!
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 3:29:58 AM EDT
"....shall not be infringed." There are no illegal guns. Only illegal laws.
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 3:38:28 AM EDT
I was thinking the same thing earlier. The whole "that person has thier finger on the trigger" gets old to. If you feel that strongly about it, just send them an e-mail. Seems a waste of resources to me (unlike this post [:D]).
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 3:49:09 AM EDT
Halfcocked could not be more right. We should not censer others or ourselves. If we do we are no better then the ATF. Time to feed the hogs...
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 9:27:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 9:36:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 9:49:07 AM EDT
Oops. I asked about the bayo-lug on a post as a joke. I did assume it was legal considering who was in the pic. I did like the pic you sent as a response though. It gave me a good idea how to keep it legal while maintaining "the look". I would never actually point something like that out publically if I thought otherwise. It could only harm the cause. I'd of sent mail discretely. Ex-Junior ATF wannabe in training. Regards. [8P]
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 10:05:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Halfcocked: "....shall not be infringed." There are no illegal guns. Only illegal laws.
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yeah but until they get overturned we got to live with em. i sure as hell dont want to be a test case. ill do my fighing with my wallet and a my vote. not from a defense stand
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 10:21:07 AM EDT
[b]SINISTRAL RIFLEMAN LOOKS JUST LIKE THE KID ON THE PORCH PLAYING THE BANJO IN DELIVERANCE !! [/b]
Originally Posted By Garryowen: [img]http://www.cavalryarms.com/p6260003.jpg[/img]
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[b]SINISTRAL RIFLEMAN LOOKS JUST LIKE THE KID ON THE PORCH PLAYING THE BANJO IN DELIVERANCE !! [/b]
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 10:28:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2001 10:25:20 AM EDT by NoFFL]
Originally Posted By SingleStacker: [b]SINISTRAL RIFLEMAN LOOKS JUST LIKE THE KID ON THE PORCH PLAYING THE BANJO IN DELIVERANCE !! [/b]
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ROTFLMAO!
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 10:32:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman: I see a disturbing trend amongst many of you. Lately whenever someone posts a pic of an AR with [b]neutered[/b] bayonet lug, a [b]compensator[/b] that looks like a flash hider or even a [b]fixxed[/b] position telestock, many people here will scream "That is ILLEGAL, the feds will bust YOU!!!"
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Well I don't know how anyone could tell by just a pic on the internet (unless its a close up of the receiver markings & serial number) how anything could be pre or post ban. Now if a guy says "Look at my new post ban!" and the pic obviously shows an un-neutered bayo lug, a birdcage, or short barrel, I see no problem in pointing out the obvious problems. Its not like there's any big secret; if someone at BATF sees it, they're going to spot the problems as quickly as any knowledgable member here would. Its not like the people at BATF are looking to us to spot the illegalities for them - they already know what they're looking for. I think it also serves a valid purpose in informing the newbies, lurkers, and less knowledgable members who may otherwise just look at the pic and think "I can do that to a post-ban? Cool!". If someone publicly points out the problem, it makes it less likely that some newbie will follow the example in the pic and make that same mistake. And yeah, I agree, the gun laws are unconstitutional, but you know what? They're still enforceable until the SCOTUS says otherwise. If you want to violate the law, thats your decision, but do it with your eyes wide open and knowing full well what you're getting into. Ok...my nomex underwear is on, flame away...
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 11:13:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Halfcocked: "....shall not be infringed." There are no illegal guns. Only illegal laws.
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What Halfcocked said.
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 11:20:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 11:29:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 11:38:14 AM EDT
i
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 12:08:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2001 12:09:17 PM EDT by David_Hineline]
here's a couple for ya all. [img]http://www.mindspring.com/~uziforme/sendra.gif[/img] [img]http://www.mindspring.com/~uziforme/stevens311.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 12:12:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: I'm calling the cops!
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Thank god we don't have hi-caps otherwise we might outgun the police and run amok!!!
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 12:19:10 PM EDT
SO HOW CAN I TURN MY 38. INTO A FULL AUTO REVOLVER?
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 12:48:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By David Hineline: here's a couple for ya all.
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Hey you've got that ambi-safety in backwards, and what's that pinhole above it? :) and that shotgun is ILL-e-GALL!
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 1:13:26 PM EDT
The point is, if we all foolow these assinine laws, they will be able to bust the people that don't. IF we all ignored them, what could they do? They can't put us all in jail, hell, we gun owners are probably the most productive members of society... It comes down to who gets to decide how you protect your family, that is an awful alot of power to give to some idiot who won a popularity contest.
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 2:12:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 3:23:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 4:41:20 PM EDT
Anothergene, why would anyone pay a fine for exercising one of their constitutional rights? If the chowderheads in washington got together and decided that we would have to ban religon or curtail free speech, would we even be having this conversation? I think not, I think we would see it as the infringment that it is. I have yet to see a gun law I agree with, if I don't agree with it, I sure as hell am not going to follow it. in all conscience, would you?
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 4:47:15 PM EDT
I say do what you want, just dont bother me about it. I dont care what people do and I think its a dumb law. I can tell the difference. I also think that if you?re silly enough to want a FAKE bayonet lug on your post ban you deserve to be bothered by people?s responses. Why else would you want it, you like it catching on your gear? I even cut the real bayo lugs off of my pre-bans, I can?t imagine wanting one just for looks. The flash hider look-a-like muzzle breaks on the other hand serve a purpose and most people dont mention anything about them because they are commonplace now. EVERY PERSON I have seen with a fake bayo lug has told me the ONLY reason they have it is because it makes it look more like a pre-ban. Well if you want it to look like a pre-ban you better accept the fact that people are going to catch it and say something. I think some people here are starting to get a little whinny. Maybe you should accept the fact if you do something SPECIFICLY to be deceptive, you might just accomplish what you were after. Why would you be surprised by the outcome? Maybe it?s just me but anytime someone does something irrelevant (cosmetic in this case) and gets upset about the outcome. Then expects everyone else to change to make them happy. The first thing I think is SHUT UP YOU DEMOCRAT! On the other topic slipping onto this post. Telling people, on a PUBLIC forum, to break or ignore federal laws is just STUPID. Your opinions stain everyone else here in the eyes of "average Joe". Why would you try so hard to fit into the stereotype anti-gov, militia, law breaking gun owner that the anti's are trying to make every else think you are? I agree it?s a dumb law. I think under most circumstances you wouldn?t even get in trouble if you got caught with it. But why spout off like a fanatic? It seems to me your preaching to the choir. Sorry if my post is blunt or rude. No personal offense is meant. I?m having a bad day and this seemed like a good subject to blast off steam with.
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 4:53:12 PM EDT
I didnt type all of those question marks. For some reason all of my apostrophes turned into question marks when I posted it. Either that or there is a gas leak in my house.
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 4:54:11 PM EDT
My point is, as long as we treat each other like jews in 1932 we can't expect anyone else to treat us any differently. I am proud of my culture, I don't mind people knowing what that culture is. I am definately not going to hide it for government officials. I don't think it is being a fanatic to say that if a law is unjust, that we are morally obligated to ignore it. YMMV. It is a big country, more than room enough for all our opinions.
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 5:12:52 PM EDT
The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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All laws limiting ownership or possession, or carrying of firearms are unconstitutional. How about this ? Federal Gun Laws can be circumvented by payment of a TAX a la the NFA.
No person shall be denied the right to vote for failure to pay a poll tax or any other tax.
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Tax evasion, NFA Violations, AW Violations, etc. are all failures to pay a tax. In fact, the BATF is a branch of the treasury. They are IRS agents on steroids. Felonies cause a person to loose the right to vote, therfore, no firearms violation can be a felony under the 14th Amendment. Yet another reason firearms laws are unconstitutional Anybody hear of a 1970 Supreme Court decision regarding the Marijuana law, which was a tax law. In 1934, the Feds passed a law requiring a tax stamp to possess marijuana. In 1970, the Supreme Court overturned it and a new law was passed immediately to take its place. Now, what would happen if the Supreme Court were for any reason other than the 2nd Amendment were to overturn a gun law. The same thing would happen. A New law would replace it. The 1970 marijuana Law was wvwn more restrictive than the 1934 law.
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 7:48:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cc48510: Anybody hear of a 1970 Supreme Court decision regarding the Marijuana law, which was a tax law. In 1934, the Feds passed a law requiring a tax stamp to possess marijuana. In 1970, the Supreme Court overturned it and a new law was passed immediately to take its place.
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Here's a bit of trivia, what law did Anslinger model his "Marihuana Tax act of 1937" after? And who was the guy who brought it to the supreme court? And why didn't this set precedent to kill the model law? t.o.t.i.d.o.
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 8:46:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By erickm:
Originally Posted By cc48510: Anybody hear of a 1970 Supreme Court decision regarding the Marijuana law, which was a tax law. In 1934, the Feds passed a law requiring a tax stamp to possess marijuana. In 1970, the Supreme Court overturned it and a new law was passed immediately to take its place.
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Here's a bit of trivia, what law did Anslinger model his "Marihuana Tax act of 1937" after? And who was the guy who brought it to the supreme court? And why didn't this set precedent to kill the model law? t.o.t.i.d.o.
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NFA and the guy that got it overturned was Timothy Leary who arued u had to break the law before u got the stamp. so u violated your a right agienst self incrimination
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 10:45:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Halfcocked:"....shall not be infringed." There are no illegal guns. Only illegal laws.
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Right on!! Couldn't have said it better myself!
Link Posted: 7/25/2001 11:51:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By libertyof76:
Originally Posted By Halfcocked:"....shall not be infringed." There are no illegal guns. Only illegal laws.
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Right on!! Couldn't have said it better myself!
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That's cute and all, and honestly I respect that strong idealism.... But in the REAL world, try telling that to the F-Troop boys that kick down your door. Or are you going to say that you are going to return fire on such individuals? In the end they WILL get you. So what's better, to live, and pay extra to have some C3 goodies and prebans, or die knowing that you lived your short life 'free'???
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 3:54:38 AM EDT
I say build what ever the hell you want, just keep it to yourself. Nobody has any buisiness inspecting my, or anyone elses weapons. Not that I would ever do such a thing as to disrespect the Feds.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 4:13:27 AM EDT
I plead guilty to once making the, online "hey that's illegal" call. Who knew that there was such a thing as "neutered" bayo lugs? (I'm still trying to accept the concept of a post-ban telestock). You ARE right, this should be done via E-Mail.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 4:14:16 AM EDT
HKocher, Lucky for us our forefathers did not beleive the same as you, wouldn't you say? WHen they decdie that you are not allowed to discuss certain things, or to attend certain churches, unless you pay a tax (then they pass laws not allowing you to pay the tax anyway), who really cares, you didn't need to say "those things" anyway, and hell, one god is pretty much the same as any other, no problem in switching, right? The 2nd is as fundamental to us as any of the others, any infringment is cause to start killing the people who are doing the infringment.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 4:41:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: HKocher, Lucky for us our forefathers did not beleive the same as you, wouldn't you say? .... The 2nd is as fundamental to us as any of the others, any infringment is cause to start killing the people who are doing the infringment.
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I agree, but if you don't feel up towards following the laws of the land, than go to a new country. There are many countries in Africa, or the middle east, that allow MG ownership at the expense of several other freedoms. I'm all for my RKBA, but we're talking about folks cutting corners to own 'illegal' firearms with cosmetic features such as bayo-lugs or tele-stocks or flashhiders. This argument isn't about the right to bear arms, this is about some guy wanting a 'cool' M4 with a flash hider and all the neat goodies, but not willing to pay the extra dough for a preban. As far as 'illegal' MGs, do what you like, personally I pay my $200 tax and the ridiculous price for registered MGs, because I will follow the laws of the land (constitutional or not) so I don't end up in jail or worse. I'm not here to preach, but don't bitch to me when you get stuck in the slammer, getting butt-raped by drug dealers and murders, or when some over-zealous F-trooper blows the top of your skull off. You take the risks, you accept the possible consequences...
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 4:49:28 AM EDT
One more thought... It's the lazy, selfish people that say "f--k these unconstitutional laws, I'm gonna build me a machinegun." so he can go off into the woods, and blast off a couple of mags to impress his friends. A real 'freedom fighter' is the one who busts his ass writing letters, or drafts pro-gun legistlation, or fights gun laws in court, or spends his dough for the advancement of 2nd amendment causes, or even teaches his children how to shoot. THIS man is trying to change things so his children can have the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. If he has to fight a war someday he will, but in the meantime he will promote the 2nd to the best of his ability.
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 4:53:49 AM EDT
, now that was about the sorriest excuse for a post that I have ever seen. Nothing personal, but the boot-licking in it was just amazing. Why do all of my AR's have telescoping stocks? Is it because I want to "be cool"? Nope, it is so that my 8 year old daughter and my 6 year old son can handle them effectively. How about the bayonet lug, do I want to attach a fed sticker to it? Nope, but I do find a bipod to be a convience, again for the childrens sake. As to your "I agree, but if you don't feel up towards following the laws of the land, than go to a new country. There are many countries in Africa, or the middle east, that allow MG ownership at the expense of several other freedoms." America Love it or leave it jingoism. I don't follow laws that are unconstitutional for the simple reason that they are not laws. Yes, fed-hit-men can come and take my life or liberty, but what you ask is a bit much. Tell me, when they say that you have to turn in your weapons, and make it law that you do so, what will you do then?
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:02:26 AM EDT
Those of us who end up in jail for petty reasons, such as bayonet lugs and telestocks, don't help the cause. Discretion is VERY important IF you are a serious individual. Getting your one's head blown off during a naughty gun-oriented confrontation with the feds will make that (Ruby Ridge) individual a martyr. That might be helpful... Anyone interested?
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:05:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hielo: , now that was about the sorriest excuse for a post that I have ever seen. Nothing personal, but the boot-licking in it was just amazing.
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Nothing personal??? Well that was the nicest, non-personal thing anyone has ever said about me!
Why do all of my AR's have telescoping stocks? Is it because I want to "be cool"? Nope, it is so that my 8 year old daughter and my 6 year old son can handle them effectively. How about the bayonet lug, do I want to attach a fed sticker to it? Nope, but I do find a bipod to be a convience, again for the childrens sake.
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Fine, whatever floats your boat. So are you saying that you are too cheap to pay for a preban rifle, and instead you knowingly put yourself at risk of jail time for these features, under the guise of principle? Or are you a hypocrite, who pays for preban rifles for those features (out of fear of prosecution) but you like to talk tough about how you WOULD buy a post ban and add preban features???
Yes, fed-hit-men can come and take my life or liberty, but what you ask is a bit much.
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So you're saying you'll endanger your life, and that of your children (or at least risk leaving them as orphans), for the sake of a bayo lug??? I'm sorry, but you need to choose your battles better. If you get capped for a bayo lug, who's going to be left for the real fight???
Tell me, when they say that you have to turn in your weapons, and make it law that you do so, what will you do then?
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I think I answered that question already, I'm sure you've already drawn your own conclusion so why should I bother to sway your opinion of me???
Link Posted: 7/26/2001 5:09:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2001 5:06:39 AM EDT by hielo]
I have no opinion of you, other than you seem to be a teenager who has all the answers, none of them based on facts or history. It's ok, we all were there at one time in our life and most of us have outgrown it. Post-Ban? Pre-Ban? Are you saying that either of these terms have any meaning at all? You think that any gun law is constitutional? If they are not constitutional, then they are not laws. If they are not laws, why would you follow them? Let me venture a guess, becuase it is safer to do so? Right?
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