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Posted: 10/1/2005 8:01:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 8:01:01 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 12:14:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Not_A_Llama:
Actually, I really don't see a huge issue with these. People in the market for the real deal won't get an airsoft copy, and if you're looking at one of these, it's not too likely you'll be buying the real deal.

If the performance were closer, it might be a harder case, but as it stands, I don't see any huge crime.

250 lumens is probably off by an order of magnitude, though.



I would not bet any money against their lumens claims. The guys over at candlepowerforume have been playing with some of those bulbs with good reports.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:38:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 8:40:22 AM EDT by Duffy]
SureFire lights are expensive, they don't need to justify what they charge. As an end user of many of their lights, I buy mine from BrightFlashlights or C4Grant, or Wes of MSTN, and hardly pay the prices SF lists on its website.
I pay more for it because they're an American company. The $ goes to further research and development, excellent service and warranty, and American workers, none of which is cheap.
As to competition, we have Pentagon, Gladius, Insight, among others. I'd gladly buy from them too, but not from some thiefing imitator from Asia who has no fear of US patent and copy right laws, therefore I will not support or encourage them with my money, same reason I will never buy a computer I know has been stolen.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 7:42:20 PM EDT

Even if it wasn't meant for Airsoft, it's still a blatant cheap copy of the original, they stole the design from SF, that alone is reason enough to not buy it and support thiefs.


Give me a fucking break. Surefire, of all the companies out there, overcharges for ALL their products and not only deserves but should EXPECT there to be copies of their products. I'm sure this light is not nearly as high quality as the surefire, and that should be the reason not to buy it, at least for serious enthusiasts, but that whine ass "you copied me" shizzod is a bunch of pansied ass bullshit.

Thats like saying you should only buy ford, since every other car that has four wheels is a blatant copy. It's called free market, and it's the only way companies like surefire is kept from blatent price fixing. (beyond what they already do) I love my m900a. Was it too expensive for what it is? Hell yeah, but i like it so i bought it. I see no problem in there being a viable, cheaper alternative for less serious operators, and if surefire is worried about it let them make something to compete. I highly doubt that they even halfway give a shit, so why should you?
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 7:15:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 7:16:11 PM EDT by Not_A_Llama]
Actually, I really don't see a huge issue with these. People in the market for the real deal won't get an airsoft copy, and if you're looking at one of these, it's not too likely you'll be buying the real deal.

If the performance were closer, it might be a harder case, but as it stands, I don't see any huge crime.

250 lumens is probably off by an order of magnitude, though.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:26:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Duffy:
Even if it wasn't meant for Airsoft, it's still a blatant cheap copy of the original, they stole the design from SF, that alone is reason enough to not buy it and support thiefs.



I'm reminded of when Blackhawk's Tom Marx came strutting along presenting his business cards. His position was "intellectual property analyst". A little off topic I know, but hilarious.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:30:19 PM EDT
Hm, I guess they need someone to tell them whether it's cool or not to steal another manufacturer's design (like Eagle)?
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 10:50:44 AM EDT
Incidentally, if you want the regular interface...

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5239074428
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 11:10:13 AM EDT
that stuff doesnt look that bad
i sort of like the green lasers
although im wondering how the prices compare to the real stuff
they seem sort of high
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 2:12:01 PM EDT
Even if it wasn't meant for Airsoft, it's still a blatant cheap copy of the original, they stole the design from SF, that alone is reason enough to not buy it and support thiefs.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 3:27:34 PM EDT
hey, it's "designed for WEAPON-E-RY"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i just love how translations often get messed up.

no thanks. we have the real thing at work and i trust them completely.
Link Posted: 9/28/2005 7:01:41 AM EDT
I find these items very interesting.

On one side, yes these items are probably an illegal patent violation of a known product.

On the other side, these are mostly products designed to duplicate the "look and feel" of other products for markets like paintball and airsoft folk. It is a knockoff, yes, and it is less expensive, but it might not be a cheap copy if it is made outside the US where labor is cheaper.

The kicker is that in the more open economy, products like this are going to show up and will profit as long as people want the look and feel versus the real deal. The other issue is that many of these cheap knock offs are as good of quality as the original items.

For me, I am typically willing to pay extra for US made items with good custom service. Not everyone is willing to pay the extra for these things.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:45:50 AM EDT
I was talking to one of my old schoolmate, who is setting up his SHTF M4, he bought an exact copy of such POS, because it is cheaper than the real Surefire product, and justify it as the Global market.

It is very disappointing that people are buying such low quality illegal knock-offs. It is more disappointing that these same people are sending their money overseas, and deny a great American company hiring Americans for their well deserved sells and profit off a good product. Surefire is one of the few companies that do pour back alot of their profit back to R&D, that serve both the military/LE and civilian market. They are also very supportive to both the military and LE, and have a great customer support.

Legitiment competition, like Pentagon Lights, Blackhawk, and Insight Technologies are heathly competition, because they drive better products. Illegal overseas knock-offs are bad because they DO NOT drive better products, and divert profit from the companies that could be used to further development of their products.

Flame-on
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:19:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leungken:
I was talking to one of my old schoolmate, who is setting up his SHTF M4, he bought an exact copy of such POS, because it is cheaper than the real Surefire product, and justify it as the Global market.

It is very disappointing that people are buying such low quality illegal knock-offs. It is more disappointing that these same people are sending their money overseas, and deny a great American company hiring Americans for their well deserved sells and profit off a good product. Surefire is one of the few companies that do pour back alot of their profit back to R&D, that serve both the military/LE and civilian market. They are also very supportive to both the military and LE, and have a great customer support.

Legitiment competition, like Pentagon Lights, Blackhawk, and Insight Technologies are heathly competition, because they drive better products. Illegal overseas knock-offs are bad because they DO NOT drive better products, and divert profit from the companies that could be used to further development of their products.

Flame-on



Right on
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 9:31:56 AM EDT
That copycat light screams PIECE OF SHIT to me...
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:17:27 PM EDT
well if you want you can read the review redwolfairsoft.com gave it on their website.

(http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/NewsDetail?newsID=716).......but I like having the real thing....
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:51:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 3:54:20 PM EDT by Duffy]
"Stylish new tactical weapons system from RICO is rugged and a high performer. As seen used by US military personel. Constructed with a high quality polymer body and aluminum skeletal frame. Super strong 3mm poly-carbonate lens means that the flashlight lens is indestructable with any airsoft gun. Super powerful and focused beam delivers a stunning 250 lumen output, while 2 integrated LED lamps provide stealth illumination! MSRP is USD275 but our price is USD169! The Alpha 9's ruggedness and performance exceeds that of many real-steel lighting systems."

Keywords for me: stylish, as seen used by US military personel (), indestructable with any airsoft gun. exceeds that of many real-steel lighting systems (REALLY!? name one!)

Not much of a review, more like a description for something for sale
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 8:08:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 12:45:57 PM EDT
It's true: in Asia, airsoft is the hobby for upper middle class professionals, 90% of which were in the army thanks to the universal draft system in Singapore, Taiwan, etc and they like to relive their old days. Said snobs will spend thousands upon thousands of dollars getting real deal tactical nylon, optics, stocks, ANYTHING they can slap on their airsoft toys.

Of course, not everyone is a electrical engineer for a high tech manufacturing firm... When I was in high school overseas I bought the knock-off lights and optics because I was playing with airsoft toys.

I can speak about the quality of some of this stuff though, many airsoft companies want to tap in on the "hardcore" market and seek to replicate real stuff as best as they can. They have access to the same top line injection molding and CNC techniques... and even use Surefire bulbs and batteries. So they come pretty damn close like 90%, but when you're upgrading your real steel rifle, you probably want to the extra 10%, just in case
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:34:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume this is an airsoft copy of a Surefire. I moved this thread out of the AR section.

I don't see what the big deal is, I don't think many people are buying airsoft copies of Surefires to use on their ARs, or at least not for any purpose more serious that guys that put those flare launchers that look like grenade launchers on their guns. I find it hard to believe that Surefire is losing sales to these-I don't think the people who are buying them would otherwise be buying a real $ 500 Surefire. On the otherhand apparently airsofters in Asia buy real AR parts and accessories, I would bet there are guys in Singapore and Hong Kong that have some very expensive Surefire products so Surefire is making some money off of airsofters.




Saw a airsofter last winter at an Op where he had a m900 on his AEG. It was a CQB Op but he liked the model and was impressed with its preformance.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:48:47 PM EDT
Someone please post the "Airsoft forums that way..." pic...
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:06:54 PM EDT
Its out of Hong Kong so my money is on a airsoft replica.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:24:29 PM EDT
150 bucks for a 'copy' of a flashlight? Sorry, I'll stick with Insight and SF can bite my bum.
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 5:41:12 PM EDT
One thing about these cheap Asian copies is the more of them we buy, the more money that goes to China, and the better THEIR equipment will be the day WE have to fight them with the cheap airsoft crap we bought from them.

Buy American.

Buy from people on this board.

Don't look back



As for the SF versus others, Surefire IS the best, but the most expensive. Pelican, Galduis, Insight are all nearly as good and quite frankly good enough for all but special forces, but for much less.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 12:56:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jonathan1994:
One thing about these cheap Asian copies is the more of them we buy, the more money that goes to China, and the better THEIR equipment will be the day WE have to fight them with the cheap airsoft crap we bought from them.

Buy American.

Buy from people on this board.

Don't look back



As for the SF versus others, Surefire IS the best, but the most expensive. Pelican, Galduis, Insight are all nearly as good and quite frankly good enough for all but special forces, but for much less.





Hmmm.....my Surefire lamp is made in Mexico. Couldn't find any "Made in the USA" stamp on mine.........
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:01:31 AM EDT
Ive seen those in person. I like em. I would own it.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:28:59 AM EDT
Is this the same guy who hawks the knockoffs of the OTAL lasers? I was seriously thinking about getting one since no one in the US will sell IR lasers to the proletariat.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:32:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Duffy:
Even if it wasn't meant for Airsoft, it's still a blatant cheap copy of the original, they stole the design from SF, that alone is reason enough to not buy it and support thiefs.


.....You mean how Bushmaster "stole" Colt's design? Or is that different?
-----
If it was being falsely advertised as a SF that would be wrong--but if not, then it isn't.

When you buy "the real thing" you may be paying for higher quality, you may be paying extra just to line some industrialist's pockets, or the reality of it all may be a combination of the two. As was noted, sometimes the airsoft versions of gear are made on the same types of equipment, often of very-similar if not identical materials. If the CEO of [name-brand-company] could not directly compare his and the cheapo-imitation item and point out the reasons his is better, then why should you spend more for the name-brand?

And as far as "losing jobs" goes--all jobs are not paid equal. There are low-wage jobs, and high-wage jobs. From any single country's standpoint, as wages rise it is beneficial to export the lower-paying jobs.
~
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:37:28 AM EDT
250 lumens?


Jeeez.

You can cook with that, can't you?


I wholeheartedly agree with TM Duffy here.

Lets not support clones theives. Doing so, only encourages more of it.
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