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Posted: 9/24/2005 9:51:53 PM EDT
[#1]
Can someone describe what happened im not to big on watching people being killed. Are the screams people are refering to coming from the Sherrif after he was shot or was it the criminal yelling?
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Posted: 9/24/2005 9:52:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Saw it. Pissed off.
GL |
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Posted: 9/24/2005 9:56:25 PM EDT
[#3]
The officer as his arms an legs were being shot repeatedly, to disable him. Shot by a Vietnam veteran, with AFAIK, no real criminal record, who had been stopped for speeding. Then acted like he was insane. Then reached into the cab of his truck and loaded up and charged his M1 Carbine, while the officer yelled verbal commands for him to stop. |
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Posted: 9/24/2005 10:00:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Thats sad. It shouldn't be like that. I have never understood why you guys can't be armed with the best equipment out there. Makes no sense at all. |
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Posted: 9/24/2005 10:03:49 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 9/24/2005 10:05:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Oh I understand what LEO's go through and why they do what they do. I find the support for the "So-called victims" (When they are actually perps) sickening. I am sick and tired of cop bashing... Cops chase the suspect... BAD COP! You could have endangered innocent bystanders Cops let suspect go.. BAD COP! Now he will go on to kill another person. Personally i dont know why people would be LEO's anymore... When you have political hacks like bernie Parks, Chief Bratton of the LAPD as the Chief of police... why the HELL would you want to work in that enviornment. Its a double edge sword nowadays... I would LOVE to see all of LAPD go on vacation for a week and see what happens. I am NOT kissing LEO ass here but sure is a thankless job and they are willing to put their LIVES on the line... all they get is verbal whippings. Im sorry but to see an officer get killed by some fuckhead who later says he was "too nice" is not my cup of tea. Life is simple, get pulled over... STFU, answer the questions and get your ticket because 99.999% of the time you get pulled over... YOUVE DONE SOMETHING WRONG... take your ticket and move on. |
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Posted: 9/24/2005 10:16:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Wow, that is the worst thing I have ever seen. I and my wife both started to tear up. All of you guys saying "he should have shot sooner " would have probably pissed your pants and ran in the situation. Why are you mentioning the bad decision he made? HE FREAKING GOT KILLED! I am positive he thought " man I should have shot this guy earlier." As he started getting chewed into pieces.
My dad was shot once when he was a cop. From behind with a sawed off 20 gauge. Luckily it was loaded with birdshot which he still carries from head to heel. Unluckily, his partner took 1 pellet in the arm, turned , sprinted to the car and drove off, leaving my dad to engage the shooter. The shooter fled after he fired and left my dad for dead. Dad said he fired and reloaded the 12 spare rounds he had in the direction if the shot. Never caught and my dad went on to become a federal LEO and just retired this year. Maybe this officer didn't want to kill the guy? He was 22 , I can only assume he wasn't Jim Cirillo and shot like 7 guys. How many of you have been in a life and death situation liek that by the time you were 22, not counting a war? He died protecting us, until you or yours strap that badge on and deal with what they have to deal with maybe show some respect for the dead. disgusting! |
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Posted: 9/24/2005 10:25:37 PM EDT
[#8]
The reason some people mention on the how the officer reacted is because as sad as this is. A video like this will be used for some kind of training in what not to do or what to do in a confrontation like the officer had. |
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Posted: 9/24/2005 10:27:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Is the age 22 therefore too young for an officer to effectively carry out his duties? Including protect himself? |
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Posted: 9/24/2005 10:47:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Then why be an Officer if he cannot deal with such situations??? Listen, Im sure the people on this board are NOT trying to piss on this Officer's soul. All they are doing is questioning his judgment. What is wrong with that? When you read the newspaper and hear that some teenage kids were killed in a car accident due to alcohal and high speeds, do you question their judgement? or do you simply take it for what it is and move on without any lesson learned? From this Officer's death, we may learn from his mistakes. This video may save future Officers lives as it teachs a powerful lesson. |
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Posted: 9/24/2005 11:23:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Once again another LEO killed in the line of duty
. I wonder how many LEO's are killed each year because they fail their training? He should have dropped the dirtbag.
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Posted: 9/24/2005 11:43:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Let me fix that for you, I'm sure you meant: Once again another LEO killed in the line of duty . I wonder how many LEO's are killed each year because thier training fails them.?------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have heard some who say it takes academy, a REAL FTO program, and 5 years experience to get officer to where they are able to perform compentently in most tasks that officers are expected to be able to do. It's also amazing how many youngsters, who are new cops, look at you with a totally bewildered look when you tell them there are people out there that will kill you in a second, simply because you are a cop, doing cops stuff, or are inconviniencing them. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 12:10:56 AM EDT
[#13]
Really sad. He was justified to shoot the SOB as soon as he saw his weapon, too bad he didn't/couldn't make that choice.
Dave |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 12:48:02 AM EDT
[#14]
My God......not one bit of that had to end the way it did. In my opinion, as a former Infantryman ( not a Police Officer ), the people who trained that young man are, without a doubt, at least partly responsible if not moreso.
How many more times should that young man have given commands that were NOT obeyed? How many times did he discharge his own weapon and NOT hit his target? That entire episode points to some absolutely piss poor training and I am glad to say that most of the officers I know are NOT trained to such low standards. That poor kid never stood a chance. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 2:24:13 AM EDT
[#15]
that was amazing. while watching i kept thinking why hasnt he shot? after the screams i thought he should have backed off more or left if he wasnt going to shoot.
like it or not that what i thought. i wonder what i would have done, i hope i would have shot. id like to see the Trooper Marc Coates video. i cant find it. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 3:56:30 AM EDT
[#16]
The needle is too easy for this animal
That is tragic. and from here, seems as it could have ended quite differently Lesson learned. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 4:22:38 AM EDT
[#17]
tagged
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Posted: 9/25/2005 4:48:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Sad case, I imagine that is used as a training aid across the Country now. What type of sidearm did the cop have? How many years as a blue?
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Posted: 9/25/2005 4:53:40 AM EDT
[#19]
Actually he was justified in shooting him as soon as he reached his hands back into the cab of the truck, behind the seat, ingnoring commands not to do so. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 4:56:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Glock 22, IIRC. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 5:21:13 AM EDT
[#21]
This is an important point, and one I try and get across to rookies. (though it does not always stick) Some college a few years back did a study on officer assaults, interviewing the criminals involved. The officers described as "nice" or "easy going" had an assault rate almost THREE TIMES the rate of the "assholes". They also had a LOT of the fatalities studied. This kid's dept had a hand in his death. They let him down when he needed it most. It's VERY likely the guy had NO training beyond the academy,(unless you count Cultural Diversity courses) and minimal UOF training.  Welcome to "small PC police dept" America. BTW: My first dept out of the Academy did not allow loaded shotguns in the patrol cars. They had to be cased in the trunk. Carrying a rifle was a quick way to get fired. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 6:23:51 AM EDT
[#22]
Let me just say that those blood curdling screams will stay with me forever. Justin |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 6:32:55 AM EDT
[#23]
Don't talk when you should be shooting. RIP Officer
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Posted: 9/25/2005 7:03:29 AM EDT
[#24]
what ever happened to tasing him when he stops following commands?
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Posted: 9/25/2005 7:07:31 AM EDT
[#25]
I think that was before the tazer came out, and not every dept has them. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 7:11:54 AM EDT
[#26]
That's one of the many reasons i'm glad i'm not in Law Enforcement anymore.
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Posted: 9/25/2005 7:33:56 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 9/25/2005 7:48:20 AM EDT
[#28]
If ever there was a situation that didn't warrant the use of a taser...that was it!!! That was a full on SHOOT ONLY scenario. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 7:55:02 AM EDT
[#29]
The guy needs to burn in hell for a couple thousand years and then be tortured for a few more thousand years. The murderer was combat aware and moved like he knew what he was doing and it is sad that the deputy choose the wrong path, I wasn't there and he obviously didn't believe it would escalate to that level. RIP peace Deputy the guys gonna get what he deserves. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 8:02:03 AM EDT
[#30]
"Actually he was justified in shooting him as soon as he reached his hands back into the cab of the truck, behind the seat, ingnoring commands not to do so." I agree 100%. Edited because I havent figured out the quote feature yet. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 8:29:51 AM EDT
[#31]
Kyle's video hits very close to home...
I had a situation much like that when I was a LEO. We were doing a field interview of a suspect and aking him about his ID when he moved toward his open car door to reach under the seat. He kept saying "I've got my ID right here", but he was too cool and calculating, not just some idiot who was having a brain fart. We drew our pistols and commanded him to stop. I had already "checked-the-boxes" in my mind and had maybe 1lb of slack left in my 92F trigger. There was a fleeting realization that "I am going to kill this guy", but at the last second he stopped and slowly raised each hand to where we could see them over the dash. My partner cuffed him as I covered. When we searched the car we found a loaded S&W 629 under the driver's side seat and a Tec-9 under the passenger side seat. The perp was a member of the "Miami Boys" and had been indicted for murder 5 times, but no one would testify against him and hence no convictions. I interviewed him after his guilty plea and he told me that he originally planned on shooting me and the other officer. I asked him why he stopped and he told me he saw the look in my eye and he knew I was going to kill him. As I type this, I am re-living the experience and I'm tuned up just like I was after the incident. When I watched this video I though but for the grace of God and my survival mindset go I. RIP Deputy Kyle Dinkheller .
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Posted: 9/25/2005 8:44:53 AM EDT
[#32]
That was very disturbing and very sad...
Was the officer busy reloading at the point when the suspect came around the passenger window and shot him? |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 8:49:38 AM EDT
[#33]
The officer never seemed to have control of the situation. Given the actions of the subject it's possible that there was no way to control the situation. The officer was a nice guy. He didn't join the force to kill anyone. He had plenty of time and plenty of justification. This is where the bad guy had the edge. He was willing to kill and the officer was hesitant. The officer did appear to have fired first, but missed.
This will make a nice gift for the next cop bashing poster I run into. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 9:02:32 AM EDT
[#34]
Trooper Marc Coates video ?
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Posted: 9/25/2005 9:06:07 AM EDT
[#35]
Another one to be seen under advisement. We watch a lot of those things in training. Some cadets drop out because of them. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 9:18:34 AM EDT
[#36]
i have searched and cant find it.
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Posted: 9/25/2005 9:20:02 AM EDT
[#37]
I don't have it on line, Try searching for "Line of Duty" episodes. (Police training tapes) |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 10:15:53 AM EDT
[#38]
I'm a former LEO and my first reaction to a fatal shooting of an LEO is always rage and sadness. After that we should be doing our best to learn from the situation.
I'm not going to 2nd guess the deputy. The man is dead, and I don’t know what his department regulations are pertaining to deadly force. For all we know, his department might not allow LEO to shoot first. Stupid yes but those regulations do exist in some districts. The Suspect was clearly well trained enough to understand how to handle his weapon. There was no firing from the hip or spray and pray. He was well disciplined in shooting, with controlled semi bursts and carefully aimed fire. He actually shot less than the officer before pressing the officer by advancing with suppressing fire from a more potent weapon. It's amazing how many officers just aren’t properly prepared or trained to handle armed and shooting suspects. All they know how to do is flex cuff suspects that are already under control. THIS IS NOT THE OFFICERS FAULT, BUT A FAILURE OF THE PROVIDED TRAINING Also, keep in mind that many officers are cautious about lethal force because of departments failing to back up their people when they need it most When training these types of tactics, mindsets, and situations must be considered. Clearly denying the suspect the ability to get to his weapon would "fix" everything, but we really have to be prepared for when TSHTF and the bullets start flying. Civilians with CCW can also learn something from this video. If the officer was carrying a G22 notice the suspect didn’t all of a sudden drop and pass out even after being wounded to the stomach by a .40S&W Wesson bullet. There are actually people that believe moving up in caliber will some how disintegrate bad guys with glorious one shot stops to any part of the body. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 10:59:21 AM EDT
[#39]
We can't Taser until there is an overt assaultive act............................... |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 11:53:43 AM EDT
[#40]
All I got was audio from the link. Anybody got the actual video?
BTW, the audio was pretty bad on its own.
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Posted: 9/25/2005 12:01:52 PM EDT
[#41]
My God I wish I hadnt either, the screams of agony from him just curdled my blood, I hope that sonfona bitch fries |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 12:26:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Like... acting drugged then reaching into a vehicle? |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 1:39:09 PM EDT
[#43]
What's the name of the file? I googled "Mark Coates" and found lots of descriptions, but no videos for download. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 3:28:49 PM EDT
[#44]
I cant find the vid either. My search-fu is weak
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Posted: 9/25/2005 4:26:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Assualtive meaning punching, kicking, etc. and it has to be the actual act, not the mere threat of assualtive behavior. We also can't Taser anyone in control of a motor vehicle. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 7:51:44 PM EDT
[#46]
Perhaps the most important rule of carrying a gun is that if you don't know when and how to use it, it will never do you any good. I'm sure this young man had no idea he would be killed, and probably never realized the full extent of his mistakes. I'm not trying to criticize him. However, by waiting to act, he traded his life for that of a scumbag criminal. His family is destroyed, and his two children fatherless. I feel great saddness for this young officer and his family. However, I will never be able to watch that video without seeing the mistakes that cost him his life. If I don't learn from such tragedies, the next video on here could be of me getting slaughtered on a street somewhere. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 8:21:29 PM EDT
[#47]
He should have shot. I am so fucking sorry for his death but he should have shot.
There was NO EXCUSE for his death. I need NO training to know that that guy needed to be put down. |
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Posted: 9/25/2005 8:35:33 PM EDT
[#48]
Nice job. While reading your story, I'm remember the feeling of my 92F's trigger about to discharge a round and take out a crook. I don't know about you, but my sights looked like they were a foot wide, but I didn't lose any peripheral vision. I still can't bring myself to listen/watch this video. RIP, Deputy Dinkheller. 
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Posted: 9/25/2005 8:41:08 PM EDT
[#49]
I surprised nobody (or other LEOs) brought up the fact that the good dep asked him to get out of the vehicle in the first place. The bad guy got the upper hand at that point obviously. Not a chance in hell for that moron to gain access to the rifle sitting down with the dep at the widow.
And under no circumstances should he have been allowed back to the car to dig around. ....just a damn shame
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Posted: 9/25/2005 8:44:35 PM EDT
[#50]
Someone asked earlier if LEOs are required to wait until they are fired upon first, and from my understanding of the use of force continuum, the answer is no. It comes down to articulation. If you can articulate that your life or the life of another is immediate threat of serious bodily injury or death, then you could justify deadly force. ie: the minute Brannan displayed the firearm, and given his behavior (reaching for and loading the weapon), you can articulate that his intention was to use it against the Deputy. So it's my understanding that deadly force would have certainly been justified. Granted, i've had a little less than a year of LE experience under my belt, so if i'm wrong, I apologize.
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