What country produced the finest small arms - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What country produced the finest small arms (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 9/19/2005 7:20:06 PM EDT

[#1]

USA & Germany toss up.

I voted Germany because I would love an MP5, a UMP, a 91, 93, 94....

I also love the USP to include the Tactical and the Mk23 weapons system.

The MG42 and MG34 are the stuff of legends and quite capable.

HOWEVER......

I could die a happy man with an auto M2, auto M16, auto Stoner 63A, auto Thompson, a 1911, a BHP, an auto BAR and a GE minigun as well as a Vulcan 20mm cannon.

Posted: 9/19/2005 7:36:42 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
USA & Germany toss up.

I voted Germany because I would love an MP5, a UMP, a 91, 93, 94....

I also love the USP to include the Tactical and the Mk23 weapons system.

The MG42 and MG34 are the stuff of legends and quite capable.

HOWEVER......

I could die a happy man with an auto M2, auto M16, auto Stoner 63A, auto Thompson, a 1911, a BHP, an auto BAR and a GE minigun as well as a Vulcan 20mm cannon.

What he said

Posted: 9/20/2005 12:56:23 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
USA & Germany toss up.

I voted Germany because I would love an MP5, a UMP, a 91, 93, 94....

I also love the USP to include the Tactical and the Mk23 weapons system.

The MG42 and MG34 are the stuff of legends and quite capable.

HOWEVER......

I could die a happy man with an auto M2, auto M16, auto Stoner 63A, auto Thompson, a 1911, a BHP, an auto BAR and a GE minigun as well as a Vulcan 20mm cannon.

BHP as In Browning Hi Power??

Developed and manufactued first in Belgium from John M's Idea's, Manufactured In Canada ( Inglis) Under license and still being used by the canadians!!! Only pistol that really saw use by both sides in WW2, Believe it was popular in Nam too,

As used By countless armies throughout the world,

My vote goes for the belgiums too,
FN Hi Power
M240
M249
Fal
P90

They Made that Gun Pachino Used in heat too you know!!

James

Posted: 9/20/2005 1:45:39 AM EDT

[#4]

This is tough.

Germany has the Mauser bros, Luger, Schmeisser, and Heckler & Koch.

America has Garand (on loan from Canada), Browning (who we sent to Belgium), Maxim (a pacifist), and Stoner.

I'm going to go with Belgium, just because that what JMB would do.

Posted: 9/20/2005 1:48:38 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
A tie between Germany and the US. They spend more time and money on quality, our designs are better.

Big +1

Posted: 9/20/2005 1:49:59 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Anyone know what Germany, Austria & Switzerland use for a sidearm now?

I'm guessing Glock for Austria since they're made there, but the others???????????

SIG

Posted: 9/20/2005 4:05:53 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You forgot the Winchesters, Colts and other fine guns of yore.

Not one mention of the Winchester repeating rifles or the Colt Peacemaker? Come on people!!! Guns weren't just invented in 1940 you know!

When he said "what country" and "small arms" I read it to mean state developed weapons.

Well actually, the M1 Garand, M16 and Thompson submachine gun were all private developed weapons which were marketed to the state. The Thompson submachine gun especially had been in civilian use for decades before the military picked it up during WW2.

I guess I should have said "state developed, for the purpose of war." Which would exclude the Winchesters and Colt Peacemaker type weapons.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the M16 and M1 were both US gov't "work product." I'm almost certain all the work developing the M1 was US gov't property (which is why John Garand died pennyless)

THought the same was true for Stoner.

Posted: 9/20/2005 4:07:30 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
US.

With a close tie to Germany. Definetely WWII era and before.

I think I am one of the few who just aren't impressed with many of the more modern HK desings.

I got no use for modern HK's other than the MP5 / MP40 design.

Even without modern HK's, Germany wins.

With the criteria being "finest" its Germany. US made more, but Germany's were more refined.

Posted: 9/20/2005 5:13:03 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
BHP as In Browning Hi Power??

Developed and manufactued first in Belgium from John M's Idea's, Manufactured In Canada ( Inglis) Under license and still being used by the canadians!!! Only pistol that really saw use by both sides in WW2, Believe it was popular in Nam too,

Yeah? well then I guess the Belgiums MADE the M16 too since soo many are produced by FN now.

The most important part of your statement is "from John M's Idea's".

JMB was American.

Posted: 9/20/2005 5:28:36 AM EDT

[#10]

USA 1st, Germany 2nd

Posted: 9/20/2005 9:04:37 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
M1 Garand - Only semi rifle fielded in WW2

Not the only one, but certainly the predominate one.

Posted: 9/20/2005 9:06:53 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You forgot the Winchesters, Colts and other fine guns of yore.

Not one mention of the Winchester repeating rifles or the Colt Peacemaker? Come on people!!! Guns weren't just invented in 1940 you know!

When he said "what country" and "small arms" I read it to mean state developed weapons.

Well actually, the M1 Garand, M16 and Thompson submachine gun were all private developed weapons which were marketed to the state. The Thompson submachine gun especially had been in civilian use for decades before the military picked it up during WW2.

Not true. The M1 Garand was designed, tested, and built by Springfield Armory, the govt armory at the time.

Posted: 9/20/2005 9:08:34 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
US:
M1 Garand
M1 Carbine
Thompson
M3 subgun (greasegun)
1903
1903A3
1911
M14
M16
etc

How could you have forgotten the Ma Deuce?! Not to mention the 1919. We've got quite a few more weapons that are rather interesting as well. And I've noticed that our focus has mostly been on military arems, very little attention has been paid to sporting arms, many of which are of extremely high quality.

I guess I don't consider the Ma Deuce a "small arm". It's basically a crew served weapon.

As noted, when he said "small arms", I, like others, took that to mean military weaponry.

Posted: 9/20/2005 9:12:16 AM EDT

[#14]

Where are the Brits?

ETA: SA-80...need I say more

Posted: 9/20/2005 9:13:03 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You forgot the Winchesters, Colts and other fine guns of yore.

Not one mention of the Winchester repeating rifles or the Colt Peacemaker? Come on people!!! Guns weren't just invented in 1940 you know!

When he said "what country" and "small arms" I read it to mean state developed weapons.

Well actually, the M1 Garand, M16 and Thompson submachine gun were all private developed weapons which were marketed to the state. The Thompson submachine gun especially had been in civilian use for decades before the military picked it up during WW2.

I guess I should have said "state developed, for the purpose of war." Which would exclude the Winchesters and Colt Peacemaker type weapons.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the M16 and M1 were both US gov't "work product." I'm almost certain all the work developing the M1 was US gov't property (which is why John Garand died pennyless)

THought the same was true for Stoner.

Correct on Garand and the M1, incorrect on Stoner and the M16/AR15. A lot of the resistance to the AR15/M16 WAS that it was developed privately instead of at Springfield.

Posted: 9/20/2005 9:27:21 AM EDT

[#16]

How about the Czechs? Pretty good designs to come out of there on a variety of weapons from small arms to artillery. Should be in the poll as a honorable mention.

Something like 11 frontline Wehrmacht divisions were equipped entirely with Czech weapons, and a number of Regiment sized units (AFAIK) were armed with Polish weapons, to very favorable reviews.

Posted: 9/20/2005 10:08:24 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Correct on Garand and the M1, incorrect on Stoner and the M16/AR15. A lot of the resistance to the AR15/M16 WAS that it was developed privately instead of at Springfield.

That's why they call me garandman.

Posted: 9/20/2005 10:19:02 AM EDT

[#18]

I dont think anyone could TRULY make a judgement without extensive PERSONAL testing....SO...

I nominate myself to do the testing.

If you own an actual military grade, unmodified, working example of a weapon you would call "THE BEST EVER" from any of the countries in question, send it to me IMMEDIATELY so I can begin the exhaustive testing process...

Ill let you all know in ten to twelve years.

Posted: 9/20/2005 10:21:08 AM EDT

[#19]

OTHER

I belive Austria both Glock and Steyr produce the most effective small arms.

Posted: 9/20/2005 10:22:02 AM EDT

[#20]

Actually, Czech Republic is probably one of the best small arms producing countries in the world.

Posted: 9/20/2005 11:53:08 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
M1 Garand - Only semi rifle fielded in WW2

Not the only one, but certainly the predominate one.

I realize that.

Posted: 9/20/2005 4:29:31 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Germany, Hands down. IMHO. they've had the most revolutionary ideas. Even as far as the messerschmidt and the tiger tank.

Actually, the Tiger tank was a dismal failure as a design. It was way too heavy as a result of the lack of armor slope & it had a slow cross country speed. It's combat range was less than 200 miles on a full tanks of gas, IIRC. The only real thing it had going for it was its 88mm main gun.

Posted: 9/20/2005 4:43:19 PM EDT

[#23]

Hands down...Madagascar.

Posted: 9/20/2005 5:46:04 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Germany, Hands down. IMHO. they've had the most revolutionary ideas. Even as far as the messerschmidt and the tiger tank.

Actually, the Tiger tank was a dismal failure as a design. It was way too heavy as a result of the lack of armor slope & it had a slow cross country speed. It's combat range was less than 200 miles on a full tanks of gas, IIRC. The only real thing it had going for it was its 88mm main gun.

For a design failure, it put alot of our boys in the ground.

Its a trade off. The ability to have that deadly terrifying main gun GOES WITH slower, heavier and using more gas.

It also had better armor.

Dude...

Posted: 9/20/2005 6:03:18 PM EDT

[#25]

John Moses Browning beats all comers by himself.

Posted: 9/20/2005 10:23:23 PM EDT

[#26]

the thing is other then then the devolpment of the idea for a gun and primer tech irc almost all firearms tech was invented by americans or in america.

we got the revolver, the bored thru cylander,full auto,semi auto, etc.

Posted: 9/20/2005 10:51:16 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
the thing is other then then the devolpment of the idea for a gun and primer tech irc almost all firearms tech was invented by americans or in america.

we got the revolver, the bored thru cylander,full auto,semi auto, etc.

Berdan was an American and Boxer was a Brit

Posted: 9/21/2005 9:43:25 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
M1 Garand - Only semi rifle fielded in WW2

Not the only one, but certainly the predominate one.

I realize that.

Well, if you realize that, why did you say the "only" one?

Posted: 9/21/2005 9:45:03 AM EDT

[#29]

Deutschland über alles!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What country produced the finest small arms (Page 2 of 2)

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