Self defense in my hubble opinion isn't valid of it occurs on someones property.  For example, you break  into someone's house. and when the home owner tell you to get your ass out you can't shoot him and claim self defense.  You can't hold of a gas station and when a patron tells you to stop you can't shoot him and claim self defense.   Pretty obvious.

Quoted: buncha fucking white trash assholes running their mouths at this guy by himself then going after him and taking a shot at him (yeah, i believe that happened from the stories i read last year). he turned around and went after them and shot anyone who got in his way, armed or not. oh well, you go to a gunfight you oughta show up armed. a whole lotta stupidity happened that day and no one should be surprised at the outcome. everyone got what they were looking for and it's left for the families to pick up the pieces. what would have happened if they'd said, "hey bud, this is posted property. you have to leave now."? that's what a friend and i did when we found hunters on his land.

Are you serious?  So you're saying that if you mouth off to me I would be justified in shooting you and anyone else who was with you?

The "He shouldn't have made me mad, your honor" defense is bullshit.  There is one man responsible for those deaths and it was the man who pulled the trigger.  It was NO ONE else's fault.

Quoted: Self defense in my hubble opinion isn't valid of it occurs on someones property.  For example, you break  into someone's house. and when the home owner tell you to get your ass out you can't shoot him and claim self defense.  You can't hold of a gas station and when a patron tells you to stop you can't shoot him and claim self defense.   Pretty obvious.

I thought it was pretty obvious too, but if you are the only one left standing, at least you aren't dead.

Quoted: Self defense in my hubble opinion isn't valid of it occurs on someones property.  For example, you break  into someone's house. and when the home owner tell you to get your ass out you can't shoot him and claim self defense.  You can't hold of a gas station and when a patron tells you to stop you can't shoot him and claim self defense.   Pretty obvious.

This is difference to me for one reason alone,having meandered in the woods and onto another adjoining tract accidently, them woods really do all look the same if you aren't familliar with the area. this (to me) isn't like either of the situations above.

Sux for everyone involved
a tough call for the jury IMHO

The way most people on this board are about hunters, some of these responses don't surprise me.

Quoted: looks like this asshole is gonna get what he deserved for killing a buncha other assholes. you run your fucking mouth you better be prepared for anything that follows.

the 6 hunters problably were running there mouths first and one hunter pushed it too far but it problably would been alright if the 6 assholes would just told him to leave and left it at that! there is more to it to cause some to kill 6 people.

Quoted: Quoted: buncha fucking white trash assholes running their mouths at this guy by himself then going after him and taking a shot at him (yeah, i believe that happened from the stories i read last year). he turned around and went after them and shot anyone who got in his way, armed or not. oh well, you go to a gunfight you oughta show up armed. a whole lotta stupidity happened that day and no one should be surprised at the outcome. everyone got what they were looking for and it's left for the families to pick up the pieces. what would have happened if they'd said, "hey bud, this is posted property. you have to leave now."? that's what a friend and i did when we found hunters on his land. Are you serious?  So you're saying that if you mouth off to me I would be justified in shooting you and anyone else who was with you? The "He shouldn't have made me mad, your honor" defense is bullshit.  There is one man responsible for those deaths and it was the man who pulled the trigger.  It was NO ONE else's fault.

I think theres more to it than just running mouths to cause someone to kill 6 people. my 02.cents

I do NOT agree with what he did.  He should have walked away when he had the chance FROM the information I have gathered thus far in the trial.

HOWEVER If a shot was fired at him and he took the person down.  When you shoot another soldier or a civilian they're friends WILL retaliate against you.  If you have the upper hand it is VERY bad strategy to give it up by not taking them out if they may be hostile towards you.  He did not know how had handguns with them.

I was watching part of it on courttv earlier and was amazed that he actually did say some deserved it and some didn't.  Which lead me to belive those were hostile towards him as immediate threats.  The others were strategically taken out to cover his has so he could live to see another day.  If they had gotten in a truck or something and tried to run him down or get out scopes and shoot him from a distance he would then be in jeopardy again.

Like the jackson trial, I will wait untill all the facts are laid on the table.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: what would have happened if they'd said, "hey bud, this is posted property. you have to leave now."? that's what a friend and i did when we found hunters on his land. Vang is Hmong (not sure about the spelling). They're a proud people with nothing to be proud about so they lash out at those who are superior to them at the slightest provocation. It's the same with ghetto people. No.  He was just a crazy armed fucking ashole

I think the 6 hunters that got killed were not letting him leave! and were looking for trouble and trouble did found them!

it woudl ahve been easier for all involved if the owner's of the land had just shot him, either for trespassing if legal in that state or because he was violent......


Who would have argued?

Quoted: Quoted: Self defense in my hubble opinion isn't valid of it occurs on someones property.  For example, you break  into someone's house. and when the home owner tell you to get your ass out you can't shoot him and claim self defense.  You can't hold of a gas station and when a patron tells you to stop you can't shoot him and claim self defense.   Pretty obvious. This is difference to me for one reason alone,having meandered in the woods and onto another adjoining tract accidently, them woods really do all look the same if you aren't familliar with the area. this (to me) isn't like either of the situations above. Sux for everyone involved a tough call for the jury IMHO

Except, was he given permission to hunt on any other property in the area at all?  I doubt it.

The difference between an accidental tresspass and a hunter just parking and going onto other peoples property without permission to enter any, is huge.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Self defense in my hubble opinion isn't valid of it occurs on someones property.  For example, you break  into someone's house. and when the home owner tell you to get your ass out you can't shoot him and claim self defense.  You can't hold of a gas station and when a patron tells you to stop you can't shoot him and claim self defense.   Pretty obvious. This is difference to me for one reason alone,having meandered in the woods and onto another adjoining tract accidently, them woods really do all look the same if you aren't familliar with the area. this (to me) isn't like either of the situations above. Sux for everyone involved a tough call for the jury IMHO Except, was he given permission to hunt on any other property in the area at all?  I doubt it. The difference between an accidental tresspass and a hunter just parking and going onto other peoples property without permission to enter any, is huge.

I don't know.

Who is to say that the conversation between the hunters and Vang didn't start out civil, and then turn into shouting and name calling when he refused to leave?

Vang got angry when the hunters told him to leave, then took down his hunitng permit number to report to the game warden. So, instead of being civil, saying he was sorry, and leaving, he got pissed and started shooting.

Some people are so stupid.

Vang is a minority.

Therefore he is innocent and blameless.

Therefore some stupid people will come up with any reason for his actions to be justified.

Lies, damn lies, and rationalizations.

Pisses me off that people are dead for no reason, other than a pos was embarrassed and lost face. After all they didn't realize that they were dissin' VANG THE EMPORER!!!

How about I try this experiment.

I drive to an area that is primarily of an ethnic group different than mine. Once I there I'll get out of my car and walk around, maybe into people's yards or into the common area of some public housing projects.

If I'm left alone and treated with respect and kindness I'll come home and drink a beer.

If on the other hand, I'm insulted. I guess that means I can go back to my car and grab my trunk gun and start killing everyone i see because they deserved it for being who they are. I'll kill everyone in the area because they may be a threat to me later. I'll depopluate the area since everyone with a cell phone or a land line cold call for back up.

Some people are stupid.

SOURCE: SAWYER COUNTY SHERIFF JAMES MEIER AND CHIEF DEPUTY TIM ZIEGLE

Before noon: A man who matched suspect Chai Vang's description met hunters near a 400-acre parcel of land owned by Terry Willers. The man had gotten lost and the hunters gave him directions.

"He ended up wandering onto 400 acres of empty property. He didn't know it was private," Sawyer County Sheriff James Meier said.

• 12-12:30 p.m.: Willers approached a deer stand on his property and found someone he didn't know sitting on it.

Willers radioed people staying in a cabin on his property (a cabin owned by Robert Crotteau) asking if the person should be there. When told no, Willers said he was going to ask the person to leave.

• At some point, members of Willers' hunting party arrived. The man had come down from the stand and was walking away.

Willers saw a hunting license number on the man's back and wrote it in the dust on an ATV.

The man "walked 40 yards, took his scope off his rifle, and turned and opened fire on the group. One of the first people hit radioed on the walkie talkie and said he was hit," Meier said.

Terry Willers was the man who radioed for help.

• Two more people from the cabin (Jessica Willers, Terry's daughter, and Al Laski) rode up on an ATV. "The gunman opened fire again on them.... some victims did receive multiple gunshot wounds."

Those who were able "checked bodies for signs of life" and pulled the wounded onto a truck.

• It appeared to investigators that the shooter pursued some of the victims. "The shots were not all at once.... By the location of bodies... he would have had to have been moving around to inflict that kind of damage."

Investigators don't know exactly how many shots were fired, but the magazine that holds 20 rounds was empty when Vang was arrested.

Bodies were found over a 100-square-yard area.

• Officers ran the shooter's back tag number and found it had been issued to Chai Vang, 36, of St. Paul. A physical description, including what the man was wearing, was issued to law enforcement officers. The area was sealed off. The description was given out to hunters.

• Two men on ATVs came upon a man in the woods who reported he was lost. They didn't realize who he was. They gave him a ride out on an ATV. At some point they found out who he was and took him to the Jeep of a Department of Natural Resources game warden.

• 5:15 p.m. Wisconsin Conservation Warden Jeremy Peery arrested Vang. In his possession was an SKS assault rifle with an empty magazine and chamber.

Quoted: the 6 hunters problably were running there mouths first and one hunter pushed it too far but it problably would been alright if the 6 assholes would just told him to leave and left it at that! there is more to it to cause some to kill 6 people.

You can't really be that silly.

In this world there are people who will kill others without remorse or problem for no reason whatsoever, even because they think it is fun. And yet somehow this guy WHO GUNNED DOWN FLEEING UNARMED PEOPLE BY HIS OWN DAMN ADMISSION ALREADY has some justification for it???

Some of you folks REALLY scare me.

Consider this.

Both parties say a hunter fired a single shot.

Vang says they fired a single shot at his feet.

The surviving hunter says they fired a single shot at Vang as he was shooting at them.

Now.  Do you think Vang would really be able to remember the number of shots the hunters fired at him WHILE he was also shooting at them???? I doupt it...he would probably be lost in the heat of the moment.

Now in my opinion...the hunters fired a single shot to scare Vang...which is why BOTH parties say the hunters fired a single shot, which is why everybody remembers the single shot being fired.

So it would go something like this.  The hunters fire a single shot at Vang...Vang kills the hunter with the rifle....meaning now they cannot fire back and are now on the defensive, which is why the surviving hunter wouldnt claim they fired more than one shot....because it would be BS.

Now IF Vang decided to just start killing the hunters he would probably kill the one with the rifle first.  So how would that hunter be able to get off a single shot if Vang killed him first?

Quoted: ride the lightning little buddy.

Unfortunately, we can't do that to him here...

Quoted: I do NOT agree with what he did.  He should have walked away when he had the chance FROM the information I have gathered thus far in the trial.

Instead he chose to kill everybody.

HOWEVER If a shot was fired at him and he took the person down.  When you shoot another soldier or a civilian they're friends WILL retaliate against you.  If you have the upper hand it is VERY bad strategy to give it up by not taking them out if they may be hostile towards you.  He did not know how had handguns with them.

How many times do I need to say this?

LETHAL FORCE IS ONLY PERMISSABLE WHEN YOUR LIFE IS IN EMMINENT DANGER. IF SOMEONE DOES NOT POSE AN IMMINENT DANGER TO YOU THEN KILLING THEM IS MURDER. NOBODY ON EARTH CAN CLAIM SELF DEFENSE ON SHOOTING SOMEONE FLEEING THE SCENE BECAUSE THEY "MIGHT" GO GET A GUN LATER.

The simple fact is that this guy shot a bunch of people who POSED NO MORALLY OR LEGALLY RECOGNIZABLE THREAT TO HIS LIFE.

I was watching part of it on courttv earlier and was amazed that he actually did say some deserved it and some didn't.  Which lead me to belive those were hostile towards him as immediate threats.  The others were strategically taken out to cover his has so he could live to see another day.  If they had gotten in a truck or something and tried to run him down or get out scopes and shoot him from a distance he would then be in jeopardy again. Like the jackson trial, I will wait untill all the facts are laid on the table.

The facts ARE on the table.

It flat out frightens me to hear so many people eager to say that a guy who shot lots of unarmed people FLEEING from him and in posession of no weapons was somehow in the right. If we believe Vang's version of events without question (which is stupid, but for the sake of arguement) then he killed FOUR unarmed people at the scene as they FLED FOR THEIR LIVES.

He then KILLED TWO UNARMED PEOPLE WHO RODE PAST HIM AS HE WAS FLEEING THE SCENE OF THE SLAUGHTER WHO WERE NOT A PART OF THE ORIGINAL INCIDENT.

THAT IS MURDER.

Quoted: • Two more people from the cabin (Jessica Willers, Terry's daughter, and Al Laski) rode up on an ATV. "The gunman opened fire again on them.... some victims did receive multiple gunshot wounds." Those who were able "checked bodies for signs of life" and pulled the wounded onto a truck. • It appeared to investigators that the shooter pursued some of the victims. "The shots were not all at once.... By the location of bodies... he would have had to have been moving around to inflict that kind of damage." Investigators don't know exactly how many shots were fired, but the magazine that holds 20 rounds was empty when Vang was arrested. Bodies were found over a 100-square-yard area.

BINGO.

This f*cker CHASED DOWN SEVERAL UNARMED PEOPLE FLEEING FROM HIM AND KILLED THEM.

That is not self defense.

That is MURDER.

Quoted: Consider this. Both parties say a hunter fired a single shot. Vang says they fired a single shot at his feet. The surviving hunter says they fired a single shot at Vang as he was shooting at them. Now.  Do you think Vang would really be able to remember the number of shots the hunters fired at him WHILE he was also shooting at them???? I doupt it...he would probably be lost in the heat of the moment. Now in my opinion...the hunters fired a single shot to scare Vang...which is why BOTH parties say the hunters fired a single shot, which is why everybody remembers the single shot being fired. So it would go something like this.  The hunters fire a single shot at Vang...Vang kills the hunter with the rifle....meaning now they cannot fire back and are now on the defensive, which is why the surviving hunter wouldnt claim they fired more than one shot....because it would be BS. Now IF Vang decided to just start killing the hunters he would probably kill the one with the rifle first.  So how would that hunter be able to get off a single shot if Vang killed him first?

Because one of the victims that Vang failed to kill picked up the rifle and tried to stop all the killing. Bad guys tend to break off an engagement when shot at.

Honestly people, what in blue hell makes you so eager to think that the SIX DEAD PEOPLE did something to make this happen? Is there something in the water, or is it a gas leak???

Quoted: buncha fucking white trash assholes running their mouths at this guy by himself then going after him and taking a shot at him (yeah, i believe that happened from the stories i read last year). he turned around and went after them and shot anyone who got in his way, armed or not. oh well, you go to a gunfight you oughta show up armed. a whole lotta stupidity happened that day and no one should be surprised at the outcome. everyone got what they were looking for and it's left for the families to pick up the pieces. what would have happened if they'd said, "hey bud, this is posted property. you have to leave now."? that's what a friend and i did when we found hunters on his land.

Edit:  Don't do that.

plain and simple.

Quoted: I was always told "Dont let your mouth write checks that your ass cant cash." A group of hunters surround one armed guy and start calling him names and psuhing him around.....did you expect this situation to end in a good way?  I say both parties are at fault.

what fucking planet are you guys from??

holy shit

Quoted: Quoted: Tough lesson, if ya start something with an armed man, be prepared for what may happen, they weren't prepared. All depends who you believe, if they did start shit with him and fired a shot in his direction while he was leaving, then I really don't feel sorry for them. You poke a hornets nest, expect to get stung. Not that the murders were right, but right has nothing to do with walking away alive from situations. Reminds me of a time when I was out shooting in a desert area alone and a group of people (POS gangbanger types more like it) showed up while I was downrange setting up my targets. One of the assholes shoots off a round and it sounded like it was in my direction. I had my AR strapped over my shoulder (with full mag) which I whipped around and pointed at them and started yelling "You wanna fucking play homies, lets' play!", I was prepared to kill every one of the bastards at that point, gun in hand or not, but instead I grabbed my shit and left but I was extremely close to going Vang on these cockroaches. You people are giving a trespassing murderer FAR too much credit.

I'm not giving him any credit at all,  just saying: if ya gonna confront a guy with a gun in his hand, ya better be ready for whatever he might decide to do with that gun. I said IF they did start fucking with this guy rather than just let him walk away then I don't feel sorry for them. I never said that is what I thought happened or that Vang should be set free or anything. I think he needs to fry unless he was indeed fired upon first, but we'll never really know what happened. There is Vang's story, the survivor's story and most likely the truth lies somewhere in the middle as in most cases.

It's amazing how fast everyone starts defending this evil murdering scumbag.

You guys have been totally brainwashed by the liberals.


What used to be considered insanely liberal is now the norm.

In europe, it's 10 times worse.


I notice that the killer is only 36 years old.  He'll be rotting in jail for a long long long time.

I'm sure he'll get the respect he's looking for from the gangbangers in jail.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Tough lesson, if ya start something with an armed man, be prepared for what may happen, they weren't prepared. All depends who you believe, if they did start shit with him and fired a shot in his direction while he was leaving, then I really don't feel sorry for them. You poke a hornets nest, expect to get stung. Not that the murders were right, but right has nothing to do with walking away alive from situations. Reminds me of a time when I was out shooting in a desert area alone and a group of people (POS gangbanger types more like it) showed up while I was downrange setting up my targets. One of the assholes shoots off a round and it sounded like it was in my direction. I had my AR strapped over my shoulder (with full mag) which I whipped around and pointed at them and started yelling "You wanna fucking play homies, lets' play!", I was prepared to kill every one of the bastards at that point, gun in hand or not, but instead I grabbed my shit and left but I was extremely close to going Vang on these cockroaches. You people are giving a trespassing murderer FAR too much credit. I'm not giving him any credit at all,  just saying: if ya gonna confront a guy with a gun in his hand, ya better be ready for whatever he might decide to do with that gun. I said IF they did start fucking with this guy rather than just let him walk away then I don't feel sorry for them. I never said that is what I thought happened or that Vang should be set free or anything. I think he needs to fry unless he was indeed fired upon first, but we'll never really know what happened. There is Vang's story, the survivor's story and most likely the truth lies somewhere in the middle as in most cases.

Just so I understand you correctly. If he was fired upon first, which has not been proven, he has the right to shoot unarmed individuals (which are proven to be fleeing) in the back? First you don't make much sense and two you must be a white ACLU racist, Right?

Ok Vang. Thats your opinion,. However, my opinion is that you now deserve to die.
Unfortunately Wisconsin doesnt seem to have the sand to do what is needed.

Quoted: The way most people on this board are about hunters, some of these responses don't surprise me.

Quoted: the 6 hunters problably were running there mouths first and one hunter pushed it too far but it problably would been alright if the 6 assholes would just told him to leave and left it at that! there is more to it to cause some to kill 6 people.

Me--------you

Yes, there must be more to it (?Vast Right-Wing Anti-Hmong Conspiracy) because God knows complete sociopaths do not exist in this world.

Well the court settled it guilty on all charges. He freely admitted murdering one of them. Hard to see another outcome.

Quoted: Quoted: looks like this asshole is gonna get what he deserved for killing a buncha other assholes. you run your fucking mouth you better be prepared for anything that follows. the 6 hunters problably were running there mouths first and one hunter pushed it too far but it problably would been alright if the 6 assholes would just told him to leave and left it at that! there is more to it to cause some to kill 6 people.

My ex knows the Crotteau family from Rice Lake.  They aren't assholes.  They're normal folks from that area.  Did they use some words?  Maybe.  But to call them assholes when you don't know them is ignorant.

I bet half of the clowns defending this scum are "asians" standing up for their racial brother.

Fry Vang ... oh shit, not in Wiskonsin.

"Why did Mr. [Robert] Crotteau deserve to die?" asked Wisconsin Attorney General Peg Lautenschlauger, the lead prosecutor.
"Because he was the one who confronted me and called me names, and that's who he is," said Vang, 36, of St. Paul.  Regarding Crotteau's son Joseph, 20, Vang said he deserved to die "because he accused me of giving him the finger and tried to cut in front of me to stop me from leaving."
I bet his lawyer choked when he heard him say that.
Elsewhere in Vang's testimony he said he believed he had to shoot all the hunters there because they might be running to get guns to come after him.
Also could have been that he was trying to eliminate all witnesses.
Vang didn't try to contact authorities afterward, and didn't mention the fatal confrontation when he ran into other hunters.
Those guys were sure lucky he was out of ammo.

we hashed this shit out here when it happened:

archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=297833

this bastard is guilty as hell


I hope a family member caps him.

Probable Cause Statement
Chai Soua Vang 09-24-1968
810 4th Street
St. Paul, MN 55106

On November 21, 2004 at 12:30 p.m. Sawyer County Sheriff's investigator Gary Gillis was contacted by chief deputy Tim Zeigle who advised that there has been a shooting with multiple victims in southern Sawyer County. Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle requested that investigator Gary Gillis respond to the scene.

November 21, 2004 was the second day of the 2004 Wisconsin rifle deer season.

Investigator Gary Gillis was advised that the incident occurred in the woods behind a cabin at 394N Deer Lake Road in the town of Meteor in Sawyer County, Wisconsin. Investigator Gary Gillis learned that there had been some sort of dispute that developed between a hunting party at 394N Deer Lake Road and at the time an unknown male subject of Asian descent. Reports indicated that the Asian male wandered onto property owned by Terry Willers and Robert Crotteau. The Asian male was located sitting in a tree stand on the private property. The asian male was confronted by Terry Willers and told by Willers to leave the property. Willers used a walkie talkie to advise the rest of the hunting party that were located at the cabin that Willers told the subject to leave and Willers was going to wait and make sure the subject left.

Lauren Hesebeck was able to provide the following information. At this point Robert Crotteau, Joe Crotteau, Lauren Hesebeck, Dennis Drew and Mark Roidt left the cabin and went to Willers location. During another verbal exchange with the Asian male one of the members of the property owner's party wrote the back tag number of the Asian male subject in the dirt on a "mule" which is a 2 side-by-side seat ATV. The back tag number that was written down was 0685505. The Asian male was also advised that law enforcement was going to be called.

Records check of the back tag indicated that the tag was registered to Chai Vang 09-24-1968, 810 4th ST E, St Paul MN 55106. 5'04" 145 lbs black hair and brown eyes. Vang was later arrested and was in possession of this back tag. The Asian male from this point will be referred to as Vang.

Vang started to walk a way and got approximately 40 yards a way. Then Vang appeared to remove the scope from his rifle and turned around and started shooting. Vang shot several times and hit Willers. Prior to being shot Willers returned fire but did not hit Vang. Vang shot several more shots and struck Dennis Drew and Mark Roidt. Lauren Hesebeck attempted to hide behind the "mule" but Vang moved around the "mule" and shot Lauren Hesebeck in the shoulder. Robert and Joe Crotteau ran away from the scene. Vang then pursued Robert and Joe. Both Robert and Joe were located away from the initial scene and had been shot to death.

While Vang was pursuing Robert and Joe, Lauren Hesebeck was able to call on the walkie talkie to the cabin and advised that he had been shot and needed help. Help arrived and removed Terry Willers from the scene. A short time later Lauren heard another ATV approaching and then heard more gun shots. Lauren advised that Vang then appeared again where the shooting originally started. Lauren Hesebeck heard Vang say something like "one of you fuckers are still alive". Lauren Hesebeck indicated that he returned fire at that time but is unsure how many times.

Robert Crotteau, Joey Crotteau, Mark Roidt, Jessica Willers and Allan Laski were all deceased at the scene from what appeared to be gun shot wounds.

Terry Willers was shot in the neck and was taken to the hospital. Dennis Drew was shot in the abdomen and was transported to the hospital. Lauren Hesebeck was shot in the shoulder and was transported to the hospital.

On November 22, 2004 investigator Gary Gillis was advised that Dennis Drew had also died from the wound he received.

Vang was later apprehended by Wisconsin DNR Warden Jeremy Peery. Vang was still in possession of his hunting gear, including back tag and also his rifle. The rifle was a Saiga SKS 7.62x39 caliber, serial number HO-3104079. Vang did not have any ammunition with him when taken into custody. Vang made no comments to Warden Peery.

On November 22, 2004 at approximately 10:15 a.m. investigator Gary Gillis and FBI agent Ken Mammoser interviewed Chai Vang at the Sawyer County Jail. Vang was read his Miranda rlghts which Vang indicated that he understood and also signed the form indicating that he understood them. Investigator Gary Gillis also asked Vang if Vang could read and write the English language. Vang stated that he could. Investigator Gary Gillis asked Vang to read out loud the waiver of Miranda rights. Vang read the waiver out loud to investigator Gary Gillis and S/A Mammoser. Vang stated that he understood the waiver but at this time wished to talk to a lawyer first before making a statement. At this point the interview ended.

At approximately 10:30 a.m. Investigator Gary Gillis was contacted by the on duty jailer. Investigator Gary Gillis was advised that while jailer Frank Metzinger was going to move Vang back to Vang's cell, Vang advised Metzinger that Vang was willing to talk to investigators. Investigator Gary Gillis advised Lt. Kurt Barthel of this and advised that the request by Vang needed to be in writing. Lt. Barthel then met with Vang and gave Vang a Sawyer County Jail inmate request form. Vang wrote out and signed the form. Vang wrote "I would like to talk to the investigator now. I don't want a lawyer at this time." Investigator Gary Gillis and S/A Mammoser again met with Vang in the interview room at the Sawyer

Vang stated that Vang had been hunting on public land and got lost. Vang stated that Vang located a tree stand next to a swamp. Nobody was in the stand so Vang climbed into it. Vang stated that after approximately 15 minutes another hunter approached Vang. the hunter asked Vang "Why are you in the stand, you're on private property," Vang stated that Vang told the subject that Vang did not know that the land was private and that Vang did not see any "no trespassing" signs. Vang stated that Vang climbed down and started to walk away. Vang stated that while walking away Vang heard the other male subject call on a walkie talkie. Vang did not hear what was said.

Vang stated that a few moments later 2 ATV's approached his location with 5 or 6 guys on them. Vang stated that Vang was confronted by this group also. Vang stated that one of the subjects that Vang believed to be the owner of the property stated "why were you in my son's stand"? Vang stated that Vang told the man that Vang did not know it was private land. And that Vang did not see any signs indicating that land was private. Vang stated that this man stated "you just trespassed through 400 acres of private land." Vang stated that the others in the group surrounded Vang. Vang stated that the man that Vang thought to be the owner then started calling Vang names like "gook, chink, fucking asian." Vang stated that at this point the only one that Vang saw with a gun was the first subject that kicked Vang out of the stand.

Vang stated that Vang was told to get off the fucking property and never come back. Vang stated that at one point they wrote down his license number and stated that they were going to call the law enforcement. Vang stated that some of the others in the group started calling Vang names (gook, chink) and were also swearing at Vang, Vang stated that Vang started walking a way and got approximately 20 yards a way and turned around and observed the man that had the rifle walking towards the rest of the group, Vang also observed the man take the rifle off his shoulder and took the rifle into his hands. Vang stated that Vang stated that Vang was approximately 100 feet away and looked back again, Vang stated that Vang observed the subject with the rifle point the rifle at Vang. Vang stated that Vang immediately dropped to a crouch position and the subject shot at Vang and the bullet hit the ground 30 to 40 feet behind Vang.

Vang stated that Vang removed the scope from his rifle. Vang stated that Vang shot 2 times at the man with the rifle and the man dropped to the ground. Vang saw all the others run towards the ATV's and Vang continued to shoot. Vang stated that 2 or 3 more men fell to the ground. Vang stated that a couple of the men started to run, Vang stated that Vang chased after one of the men that ran towards the cabin. Vang stated that the man was yelling "help me, help me". Vang stated that Vang shot at the man several time while chasing him. Vang stated that Vang stated that he got to about 15 to 20 feet of the man who was still running away and Vang shot him in the back. Vang stated that the man dropped to the ground. Vang stated that the man did not have a gun. Vang stated that Vang walked up to the man and heard the man groan and then Vang walked a way. (This is believed to be the body of Joey Crotteau.)

Vang stated that at this point Vang heard one of the other men call on the walkie talkie and state "we've been shot and need help." Vang stated that Vang observed 3 other subjects coming on an ATV. Vang stated that Vang then turned his reversible coat from orange to camo. Vang stated that he also reloaded his magazine with 5 or 6 bullets. Vang stated that Vang did not shoot at these men because they had guns with them. Vang stated that the men were in by the other injured men for less then a minute and then left. Vang did not know if the men took any of the wounded out with them.

Vang stated that Vang then observed another ATV coming with 2 more people on it. Vang stated that the driver of this ATV had a gun on his shoulder. Vang stated that Vang began to run and Vang stated that they saw Vang running and were going too fast to stop and drove past Vang. Vang stated that they stopped approximately 10 to 15 feet past Vang at a 45 degree angle. Vang stated that the man removed the gun from his shoulder with one hand while the other hand was on the handle bars of the ATV. Vang stated that Vang shot 3 or 4 times and both people fell off the ATV and onto the ground. (these are the bodies of Allan Laski and Jessica Willers.)

Vang stated that Vang then started to run back towards where the original shooting started. Vang stated that Vang looked up the trail and saw that one of the men were standing. Vang stated that Vang yelled "you're not dead yet?" Vang stated that Vang shot one more time in the direction of this man but doesn't know if he hit the man or not. Vang stated that he continued to run away and did not return. Vang stated that at one point while running Vang decided that he did not want to shoot anybody else, so Vang threw his remaining ammunition into a swamp.

Yang stated that approximately an hour after throwing the ammunition away Vang heard the airplane overhead. Vang stated that Vang was thinking that they were looking for Vang so Vang was thinking about turning himself in. Vang stated that Vang came upon a hunter with an ATV and asked the hunter for a ride to the road. Vang stated that the hunter drove Vang to the hunter's cabin. Vang stated that the wardens were at the cabin waiting for him.

At the scene there was only 1 rifle located. That rifle was located near the body of Mark Roidt.

All of the victims were dressed in blaze orange clothing.

Preliminary autopsy results conducted by the forensic pathology team under the direction of Dr. McGee of the Ramsey County, Minnesota Medical Examiner's office are as follows:

Robert Crotteau -gun shot
Joey Crotteau -gun shot
Al Laski -gun shot
Jessica Willers -gun shot
Mark Roidt -gun shot
Dennis Drew -autopsy pending

Investigator Gary Gillis
November 23, 2004

In his own testimony he found one of the people behind the 4 wheeler and said "you not dead yet?" and shot him again killing him. If that isn't murder I don't know what would be.  With only three hours of deliberation, there wasn't any question in anyones mind.

Quoted: In his own testimony he found one of the people behind the 4 wheeler and said "you not dead yet?" and shot him again killing him. If that isn't murder I don't know what would be.  With only three hours of deliberation, there wasn't any question in anyones mind.

Not to mention that the f*cker removed his scope before firing.

It was first degree murder. Not firing back at what he thought was a real threat to life and limb. If he was under immediate threat, he would not have had time to detatch his friggin scope.

As to whether or not there was any question, apparently some of the questionable minds around here think so....

Quoted: Quoted: In his own testimony he found one of the people behind the 4 wheeler and said "you not dead yet?" and shot him again killing him. If that isn't murder I don't know what would be.  With only three hours of deliberation, there wasn't any question in anyones mind. Not to mention that the f*cker removed his scope before firing. It was first degree murder. Not firing back at what he thought was a real threat to life and limb. If he was under immediate threat, he would not have had time to detatch his friggin scope. As to whether or not there was any question, apparently some of the questionable minds around here think so....

Ok, he was found guilty. over and done.

edited out the rest, I see no reason to even attempt.

I love how vang is "being shot at" and takes the time to remove his scope before returning fire.

He doesn't even make up good lies.

Quoted: most likely the truth lies somewhere in the middle as in most cases.

I hate this line of reasoning. This isn't directed at you personally, it just vulgerally illustrates my point.


I go over to your mothers house. I rape and beat her over serveral days. Each day I drive her to an ATM machine to withdraw the daily max limit. After all her money is gone I choke her and leave thinking she is dead.

She recovers and calls 911. They take her to the hospital and while she is recovering she gives the police my desription. They come and arrest me.

I tell the police that she is a prevert and that she paid me to have sex with her. She drove to the ATM machine to withdraw money each day to keep me there since I'm so good at it. When I finally had enough and left she didn't have a mark on her. I tell the police that she was afraid of her son, who was on drugs and liked to beat her up. Therefore it was him that put her in the hospital not me. I'm only guilty of trying to comfort a MILF with my talents.

That is a story, nothing more, to make a point. There is now way in hell you can split the difference and say that somewhere in there is the truth.

Vang tried to play the race card seeing how successful it is used. I'm happy to see white guilt didn't trump common sense and reason.

I don't doubt that Vang was afraid for his life after being confronted and surrounded by a group of rednecks in the middle of the woods.

Quoted: Quoted: I was always told "Dont let your mouth write checks that your ass cant cash." A group of hunters surround one armed guy and start calling him names and psuhing him around.....did you expect this situation to end in a good way?  I say both parties are at fault. Jimeny Crickets!!! That is the assertion that this murdering scumbag has made. There is not ONE SHRED of evidence to support that supposition. The lone survivor tells a much different story. And that STILL does not explain why he shot two people heading AWAY from him on 4 wheelers who WERE NOT PRESENT for the initial supposed confrontation and who posed him NOT EVEN THE SLIGHTEST THREAT!!! Some of you folks obviously have not been paying attention to this story from the getgo. This Vang is a lying, murdering sack of scum. Lets hope that if a similar scumbag finds his way into your house and manages to kill 6 of your loved ones that the people on ARFCOM will have better sense than to blame YOU for it all.

+1000

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: looks like this asshole is gonna get what he deserved for killing a buncha other assholes. you run your fucking mouth you better be prepared for anything that follows. the 6 hunters problably were running there mouths first and one hunter pushed it too far but it problably would been alright if the 6 assholes would just told him to leave and left it at that! there is more to it to cause some to kill 6 people. My ex knows the Crotteau family from Rice Lake.  They aren't assholes.  They're normal folks from that area.  Did they use some words?  Maybe.  But to call them assholes when you don't know them is ignorant.

then what could cause a guy to unload on 6 other hunters without being pushed in some way!

Quoted: I don't doubt that Vang was afraid for his life after being confronted and surrounded by a group of rednecks in the middle of the woods.

Not above using stereotypical nametags are we.  You obviously do not know the 5 criteria for being a redneck.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: looks like this asshole is gonna get what he deserved for killing a buncha other assholes. you run your fucking mouth you better be prepared for anything that follows. the 6 hunters problably were running there mouths first and one hunter pushed it too far but it problably would been alright if the 6 assholes would just told him to leave and left it at that! there is more to it to cause some to kill 6 people. My ex knows the Crotteau family from Rice Lake.  They aren't assholes.  They're normal folks from that area.  Did they use some words?  Maybe.  But to call them assholes when you don't know them is ignorant. then what could cause a guy to unload on 6 other hunters without being pushed in some way!

it doesn't fucking matter!!!!!!!  if he was "pushed" or not.

what he did was so far out of bounds that it was an act of pure murder.  

he shot 8.  EIGHT.  hunted them down as they ran away and shot them in the back.  

one was an unarmed woman.

he stopped killing when he ran out of victims.

WTF is wrong with you guys?

Quoted: Quoted: the 6 hunters problably were running there mouths first and one hunter pushed it too far but it problably would been alright if the 6 assholes would just told him to leave and left it at that! there is more to it to cause some to kill 6 people. Me--------you Yes, there must be more to it (?Vast Right-Wing Anti-Hmong Conspiracy) because God knows complete sociopaths do not exist in this world.

They may get him to confess to the murder several years ago near the area where Vang wzas hunting. I believe is is the main suspect in that murder. Another hunter shot in the back. and police were looking for a small truck with three Asians. We''ll see if he confesses now as there is not much reason not to. I wonder what disparaging remark that guy might have said to deserve to die?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: looks like this asshole is gonna get what he deserved for killing a buncha other assholes. you run your fucking mouth you better be prepared for anything that follows. the 6 hunters problably were running there mouths first and one hunter pushed it too far but it problably would been alright if the 6 assholes would just told him to leave and left it at that! there is more to it to cause some to kill 6 people. My ex knows the Crotteau family from Rice Lake.  They aren't assholes.  They're normal folks from that area.  Did they use some words?  Maybe.  But to call them assholes when you don't know them is ignorant. then what could cause a guy to unload on 6 other hunters without being pushed in some way!

Because he's a crazy motherfucker!!