Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG: I love it when the union elite close a company rather than give in one iota. Later on the now out of work rank and file members are scratching their heads wondering how the fuck that helped them. So just which union elites are doing damage to Delta? Serious question btw... The pilots. The beginning of this yeat alot of them retired so they could get their money and not take a paycut. Firetrucks were spraying aircraft everyday. It's really hard to to listen to them cry about selling the ranch in south Texas when you are about to lose your job. Dont blame the pilots. They get fucked over all the time. They are underpaid for thier level of responsibilty. Would you want someone making 30k a year flying your family around the busy skies in a 70 million dollar aircraft that requires YEARS of training to even operate? We all took pay cuts and they didn't. They seem to be doing ok @ 200k a year.

I know that. Still, dont blame the pilots. They are screwed at almost all airlines. Hate the FA's

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG: I love it when the union elite close a company rather than give in one iota. Later on the now out of work rank and file members are scratching their heads wondering how the fuck that helped them. So just which union elites are doing damage to Delta? Serious question btw... The pilots. The beginning of this yeat alot of them retired so they could get their money and not take a paycut. Firetrucks were spraying aircraft everyday. It's really hard to to listen to them cry about selling the ranch in south Texas when you are about to lose your job. Dont blame the pilots. They get fucked over all the time. They are underpaid for thier level of responsibilty. Would you want someone making 30k a year flying your family around the busy skies in a 70 million dollar aircraft that requires YEARS of training to even operate? We all took pay cuts and they didn't. They seem to be doing ok @ 200k a year. I know that. Still, dont blame the pilots. They are screwed at almost all airlines. Hate the FA's

Only the old ones. The yound FA's were fun to hang out with.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My Dad has something like three million frequent flyer miles with them.  What will happen with that? He needs to use those miles immediately or transfer them to another program(if he can).

Talked to my Dad today.  He said that his FF miles will transfer to another program.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG: I love it when the union elite close a company rather than give in one iota. Later on the now out of work rank and file members are scratching their heads wondering how the fuck that helped them. So just which union elites are doing damage to Delta? Serious question btw... The pilots. The beginning of this yeat alot of them retired so they could get their money and not take a paycut. Firetrucks were spraying aircraft everyday. It's really hard to to listen to them cry about selling the ranch in south Texas when you are about to lose your job. Dont blame the pilots. They get fucked over all the time. They are underpaid for thier level of responsibilty. Would you want someone making 30k a year flying your family around the busy skies in a 70 million dollar aircraft that requires YEARS of training to even operate? We all took pay cuts and they didn't. They seem to be doing ok @ 200k a year.

I don't know how much crack you've been smoking, but.....The pilots at Delta took a 32.5% pay cut, plus cuts in benefits that brought it close to 40% total.

Labor has always been the EASY target for management to blame.  When they should be looking in the mirror.

AND, there are only two unions on property at Delta.  The pilots, and the dispatchers.  SWA is one of the MOST HEAVILY Unionized airlines right now, and they are going great.  It's the MANAGEMENT Dummies!

Quoted: And the unions deserve to get fucked over. Unions are the prime cause of American companies shutting down domestic production operations and letting the Chinese, Indians, and Pakistanis make the product instead.

Unions are the reason we don't live like Chinese, Indians and Pakistanis. Not that I'm a big fan of them, but they do serve to balance management greed.

Helogene is correct. The pilots have taken a big cut. Sure they resisted, but who wouldn't.  Delta has even suggested they take more of a cut.

The pilot's union has not been the easiest group for Delta to work with, but they certainly have not been the cause of the current situation.

FWIW I'm an AMT with Delta.

sad to here about Delta....worked the ramp for them years ago

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG: I love it when the union elite close a company rather than give in one iota. Later on the now out of work rank and file members are scratching their heads wondering how the fuck that helped them. So just which union elites are doing damage to Delta? Serious question btw... The pilots. The beginning of this yeat alot of them retired so they could get their money and not take a paycut. Firetrucks were spraying aircraft everyday. It's really hard to to listen to them cry about selling the ranch in south Texas when you are about to lose your job. Dont blame the pilots. They get fucked over all the time. They are underpaid for thier level of responsibilty. Would you want someone making 30k a year flying your family around the busy skies in a 70 million dollar aircraft that requires YEARS of training to even operate? We all took pay cuts and they didn't. They seem to be doing ok @ 200k a year. I don't know how much crack you've been smoking, but.....The pilots at Delta took a 32.5% pay cut, plus cuts in benefits that brought it close to 40% total. Labor has always been the EASY target for management to blame.  When they should be looking in the mirror. AND, there are only two unions on property at Delta.  The pilots, and the dispatchers.  SWA is one of the MOST HEAVILY Unionized airlines right now, and they are going great.  It's the MANAGEMENT Dummies!

I was smoking the crack Delta gave me. The pilots didn't take a cut until a year and a half after the rest of us. That cut is peanuts compared to those that lost their jobs.

Quoted: They do that just to fuck over their unions.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ummmmm,  YEAH!!!!  RIGHT!!!    

Quoted: Quoted: And the unions deserve to get fucked over. Unions are the prime cause of American companies shutting down domestic production operations and letting the Chinese, Indians, and Pakistanis make the product instead. Unions are the reason we don't live like Chinese, Indians and Pakistanis. Not that I'm a big fan of them, but they do serve to balance management greed.

Oh for god sake......  If we did not have unions we would not be BUYING EVERYTHING FROM CHINA, INDIA and PAKISTAN.

Management Greed.....  Workers of the World UNITE.  What the hell... Have you been reading Wobbly literature?  

Unions may have worked back in the industrial revolution, when government had virtually no regulations in place for ANYTHING.  But now, with the current laws on the books, unions are redundant, highly politicized dinosaurs.

Yeah, and don't come back with "there would not be a minumum wage without unions" or any of the old lines.  Most of them have been disproven by real economists.


ETA:  Unions now are like Jesse Jackson and the Rainbow Push.   Only serving to CREATE divisiveness and seperate classes in society.  The US versus THEM mentality that is tearing this country apart.  If all the workers on the factory floor ASPIRED to be those greedy managers, they would go out and get better educations and STRIVE to be the best.  Not just do their job, get paid 40 bucks an hour and go home an bitch about the evil managers.  They should become managers and FIX the problem.

tagged to watch the bickering and blaming the "overpaid" labor from the peanut gallery.
BTW I'm an "AMT" (mechanic) that makes less than some car mechanics, and I've been there six years.

Flew Delta this last June and Delta Connection ComAir this Saturday and yesteday.   No complaints.

Delta's self check in kiosks are the best.  This last trip I just had carry on luggage, waved the barcode printed out on my free frequent flier milage iteneriary and got boarding passes in 30 seconds.

Quoted: Hmmm...I have two tickets for anywhere in the world they fly...wonder if I should use them soon?

+1, though they're domestic

Quoted: Quoted: We all took pay cuts and they didn't. They seem to be doing ok @ 200k a year.

For Delta? I dunno 'bout that. There are VERY FEW grisled old pilots making that kind of money these days to my understanding. The whole A and B-scale pay deal put the kibosch on that years ago. If you want to even get close to that kind of money these days you go freight like UPS and FedEx. When I was in the commercial pilot que the picture was looking worse all of the time... so I am a network admin instead.

P.S. I agree about unions being the a real problem for many corporations (of course, so are HUGE coporate pay-outs and options to CEO's of failing companies). Also, I have tickets to San Jose in October on Delta. Hope they're still flying then...

Delta restructuring

According to my SkyMiles email I just received, Delta has now formally announced Chapter 11, but says frequent-flier miles are still good and can still be earned.

The reason Delta is in Chapter 11 is clearly due to a failure of leadership.  Dont believe the high fuel cost BS spin that the CEO is spewing even though that has contributed to the problem.

The problem is that Delta is an old beauracratic airline where the leaders failed to take the necessary steps to avoid bankruptcy.

To stay in business, revenues must exceed expenses.  When they dont, you must start cutting heads which is the largest expense most companies have.

Instead look at Delta with their bloated HR departments, Marketing departments, Finance Dept, IT Department, and Diversity Programs, and all the other bullshit that doesn't translate to revenue.

Add to that multiple layers of overpaid beauracratic management that receives bonuses FOR NOT DOING THEIR JOBS

Add to that a work force comprised mainly of individuals without a college education making $50,000/year sweeping the floor or throwing baggage around.

Add to that their outdated hub and spoke operations strategy where it costs a business person $950 to fly from ATL to Charleston, WV (a 1 hr flight)

So what are you left with - 1) a workforce that has endured so many pay cuts and loss of benefits that their morale is shit; 2) A flying public (particularly business folks) that cant stand to pay overpriced fares, with late departures, and a bag of peanuts.

Now that is the recipe for bankruptcy.

Yes Delta is in Chapter 11, but it did not have to happen if Management had made the hard choices which is cutting headcount, reducing beauracracy, changing their operations strategy.