How is a belief, based on religion, that we should never side against Israel any different from or more dangerous than a belief, based on bonds of culture and language, that we should never side against Britain?

ETA: AFAIK, the only examples of American security actually being compromised by ideologically motivated moles involved godless pinkos helping the Russians. IIRC, Pollard broke the law, but didn;t actually endanger America.

Maybe you people can fix my history for me cause I think my history is all confused. Either that or you people just don't give a damn. If the latter is the case please inform me now so I won't have to waste anymore "typing time". This is the history as I see it , corrections welcome. The Gaza strip in say 1920 had a 0% Jewish population. It was all Muslim. At first it was under a British Mandate, then in 1948 it went to Egyptian control. Still at that time it was an all Muslim region. But the people there are not Egyptian any more than when they were under British control they were considered Englishmen ? Is this not correct? Then in 1948 Arab Refugees from what is now Isreal flooded in and had to set up refugee camps, Fun for the whole family I'm sure. Fast foward to 1967, Isreal gets into a war with all the neighiboring states and they "take", conquer, liberate (fill in your political word for taking land by force of arms here) the Gaza strip. So you have this small strip of land filled with pissed off Arab refugees and native Gazans, so what do you do? First military occupation, Isrealii tanks and soldiers walking up and down the streets with guns etc. with Martial law curfews, Constant assaults by the Isreali army into peoples homes looking for "terrrorists" and guns and what not ETC ETC. Then the next big step, "colonisation". The Isreali Gov't builds huge compound forts then encourages Isrealis to move into them and plant a big isreali flag at the gate. For those not really understanding, this is the equvalent (in terms of race hatred) of KKK members buying a building in the middle of  Harlem and turning it into a "white power" museum. Am I not right on this one? If not please explain. So now in 2005 In order to facilitate the peace process the Arab demand the removal of these "settlements" and guess what? the vast majority of Isrealis want them removed as well. But a small radical minority of Jews belive that all the land belongs to them and they'll take it by force and kill or expel all the people already living there for the last 1000 years. These are the people you saw on TV wailing and crying cause they were losing land they took during a war. Now is this just a case where I am mistaken? Or is this what is really happening. Or is the feeling of the majority of the people here that since Isreal took the land by force of arms they have the right to do whatever they want to the civilians on that land, including putting them in camps or trying to expel them or well whatever cause if that is the case then at least you should admit it and not talk about the arabs as if THEY are the Nazis!

Quoted: Keep your eyes on South/North Carolina......Ophelia. Looks to be weakening somewhat but it could not be any more directly over the warm waters of the Gulf Stream.......

You have got to be fucking kidding me.



And, for the record, the US did not "force" Sharon to
pull out of Gaza anymore than we "forced" Tony Blair
to help in Iraq.

Quoted: Quoted: Keep your eyes on South/North Carolina......Ophelia. Looks to be weakening somewhat but it could not be any more directly over the warm waters of the Gulf Stream....... You have got to be fucking kidding me. And, for the record, the US did not "force" Sharon to pull out of Gaza anymore than we "forced" Tony Blair to help in Iraq.

No, actually I'm not kidding. Jehovah is absolutely capable of keeping His Word.

I never said "forced' either.

Quoted: A) Maybe you people can fix my history for me cause B) I think my history is all confused.

A) Do your own homework.

B) You are correct.

Quoted: Quoted: A) Maybe you people can fix my history for me cause B) I think my history is all confused. A) Do your own homework. B) You are correct.

That liked to have caused me to fall out of my chair laughing.

Quoted: I never said "forced' either.

No, you did not. O_P did.

But I do not see how the US is "siding against Israel."
Considering that the US is the ONLY friend that Israel
has, I'm not sure why we would face the wrath of God.

Quoted: Quoted: Of the bazillion shitty little brush conflicts between small nations and factions that plague the planet at any given moment, doesn't anyone in US ever wonder why the one in Israel gets ad infinitum coverage from the American Media? Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm-berg. And now we may all bid a fond adieu to another member of the master race

Man, go off ARFCOM for a few hours and you miss the chance to taunt an .

Good (and quick) work Aimless.

While it is their land now, this is a very stupid way to start out this new "peace".

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actually, I'm expecting someone from New York to shout 'wanna see something funny?' Jesus, are you still in this thread? Let the grown ups talk. So far, you have shown yourself to be a total mouth breather with typical mindless responses. There are people who are disagreeing with me who actually seem like they might take a shot at making an actual valid point (doubtful, but i'm hopeful) Please allow them to do so. In the mean time, say stuff like '88', seig heil, conspiracy theorist or whatever idiotic pigeonhole you would try to put me in. It was an inside joke, I guess you could say. At any rate, you seem to be convinced that your opinions are worthy of intelligent consideration. Let me disabuse you of that notion. 1) Like it or not, you're posting your drivel amongst a number of folks ere who still believe that Israelis are God's chosen people. None of us fully understand the implications of that- but most of us (those of us posting in this thread, anyway) agree that our involvement in decisions contrary to the well-being of Israel can have dire consequences for us, as a nation. Building on that, if you'll look in the south-central part of a map of the United States, you'll find the remains of a city called 'New Orleans'. Think long and hard about the potential correlation between the two phenomena. 2) You came into this thread asking what may be the stupidest question ever asked on ARFCOM. There has NEVER been ANY doubt in ANYONE'S mind as to why we, as a nation, pay very close attention to what happens in Israel. Now, please, go away. Don't you have some goose-stepping to practice?

SMACK!!

What is it about the s. They seem to have this yearning for public humiliation.

Nice smackdown, arowner.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How many mosques has Israel destroyed? Quite a few, its standard practice to destroy homes and mosques in retaliation for terrorist acts. Name one instance.

Jan  2004 they destroyed houses and a mosque in Rafah as part of their collective responsibility policy.

<Doc Holliday>  I'll be yer 88. <Doc Holliday>

Quoted: Quoted: A) Maybe you people can fix my history for me cause B) I think my history is all confused. A) Do your own homework. B) You are correct.

I did my homework, and the post was what i came up with. And no, your "bumber sticker philosophy" retort has done nothing to prove my facts incorrect. All i ask is that you prove that any of my facts are incorrect, which you have failed to do. (basically cause you can't) Maybe you were thinking i was just another dumb Americanski who if asked about the problems of the middle east will shrug and say "oh gee the Jews and arabs have been fighting since bible times." Sorry to dissappoint but unlike 90% of the people, i read books.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A) Maybe you people can fix my history for me cause B) I think my history is all confused. A) Do your own homework. B) You are correct. I did my homework, and the post was what i came up with. And no, your "bumber sticker philosophy" retort has done nothing to prove my facts incorrect. All i ask is that you prove that any of my facts are incorrect, which you have failed to do. (basically cause you can't) Maybe you were thinking i was just another dumb Americanski who if asked about the problems of the middle east will shrug and say "oh gee the Jews and arabs have been fighting since bible times." Sorry to dissappoint but unlike 90% of the people, i read books.

Here's a start: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=380934

BTW, the history of Gaza dates back MUCH further than 1920.

ETA: Start with Glockguy40's first post on page 1. He pretty much argued your exact position and was soundly refuted.

I'm still trying to figure out what a "hominem" is?  (Homonym...I thought)

Quoted: I'm still trying to figure out what a "hominem" is?  (Homonym...I thought)

'ad hominem' - rejecting an argument based on some flaw in the person presenting it, instead of rejecting the arguement based on an inherent flaw in it.  

Quoted: I'm still trying to figure out what a "hominem" is?  (Homonym...I thought)

No, no, you've spelled it wrong. It's homo-inem. And that's Marshall Mather's new name.

Quoted: Gazans Burn Synagogues in Israeli Soldiers' Wake

And you expected what? Muslims to convert to Judaism and use those temples?

You make it sound like the Holocaust Part II.

Let's try and remember it was ISRAEL who moved the jews from Gaza. That land was then GIVEN to the Muslims. It didn't have a stipluation that the Synagogues must be maintained.

Personally I can see why they may have given up Gaza (hard to control the area and protect the Israelis there) and I can also so how it can be a bad idea (emboldens the enemy and sends a message that terrorism works).

But the bottom line is the land has been GIVEN away. Nobody expected the Synagogues to NOT be burned down. I doubt very much if Israel took over Syria they'd leave all the Mosques alone.

Quoted: Quoted: Gazans Burn Synagogues in Israeli Soldiers' Wake And you expected what? Muslims to convert to Judaism and use those temples? You make it sound like the Holocaust Part II. Let's try and remember it was ISRAEL who moved the jews from Gaza. That land was then GIVEN to the Muslims. It didn't have a stipluation that the Synagogues must be maintained. Personally I can see why they may have given up Gaza (hard to control the area and protect the Israelis there) and I can also so how it can be a bad idea (emboldens the enemy and sends a message that terrorism works). But the bottom line is the land has been GIVEN away. Nobody expected the Synagogues to NOT be burned down. I doubt very much if Israel took over Syria they'd leave all the Mosques alone.

Actually I kind of expected them to be converted to Mosques, that is what has usually happened throughout history.

It amazes me that people still get all bent out of shape about the Jewish influence in the media. Are Jews over represented, sure, but that does not an illuminati make any more than all the wonderful people from India that own gas stations forming a cabal to keep the price of twinkies and Mad dog 20/20 at unreasonably high prices. Oh well. Some people will believe anything. I am off  to my Bilderberg meeting to plan the next fall line up and later after we fondle all the gold at an Illuminati meeting we are going to vote on weather or not there should be a shortage of pineapples this year....you know, just because we can.


Anyways for those of you who are equating what happens to Israel and what happens to the US, here is an onteresting article. Take it for what it is worth.

-------------------


I ahve been teaching history and was amazed at what popped out at me even form a secular history book. It has taken me a awhile to put it together, but here is the summary I came up with. A real history expert might
improve this with more details, but I think this is startling enough. Now if we could just get President Bush to read this...

A History Lesson that Teaches a Bible Lesson
First, a sample of the many promises in the Bible:
Genesis 12:1-3 "Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great: and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."
Genesis 26:4 [To Isaac] "... and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed."Genesis 28:14 [To Jacob] "... and in thee and thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed." Numbers 24:9 [To the nation of Israel as a whole] "... Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee."

Now the history:
(Historical information gleaned the high school history textbook, World History: Connections to Today, published by Prentice Hall, 1997. A few other details gleaned from The Catholic Encyclopedia of 1910, World Book Encyclopedia, and others are common knowledge. It should be recognized that at times, prevailing sentiment among people can be different from the leaders' and this perhaps can cause some apparent exception to the rule (or apparent delay), but the rule is very remarkable in its consistency. It sort of jumped out at me as I read the history book.)

The rise of the Roman Empire was associated with a toleration of the Jewish faith, excusing them from worshipping Roman gods and allowing them to live in their land.

From the time that the Romans destroyed the temple and expelled the Jews from the land of Israel, they suffered cruel and insane emperors with a few exceptions until the Empire could not deal with its problems any longer and fell to the Germanic tribes.

The Catholic Encyclopedia specifically says that the Byzantine Empire at times blessed the Jews and other times cursed them, however, I have not yet found full details and years. They lasted a long time, with continual loss of territory and power until the final collapse in 1452 to the Ottoman Muslim Turks (You'll never guess what those Muslims did. See below.).

1000-1300 Jews were welcomed into Muslim-controlled Spain, and given responsible posts in the government.

This was Spain's golden age of philosophy with Muslim scholars such as Avarroes and Jewish scholars such as Mamonides.

1290 Jews were expelled from England after a growing antipathy towards them, but welcomed into Poland.

1347-1350 The Black Death (spread by fleas) killed one fourth of Europe's population and the Jews were blamed for it by many.

1394 Jews were expelled from France, and welcomed into Germany.

During this century, Cracow, Poland became the cultural center of Europe with the leading university of Europe.

France and England became entangled in the Hundred Years War, 1337-1453.
In Germany, Gutenberg invented the printing press in 1440 and began spreading the Bible throughout Europe.

1492 / 1497 Spain, then Portugal, expelled all non-Catholics, especially Jews, although some of the rulers afterward were from Jews who converted to Catholicism. The Jews were officially welcomed into the Muslim Ottoman Empire with a letter asking the Jews to "bring your blessing"!! They also were welcomed into Italy and Holland, although in Italy they were required to live in Jewish ghettos.

This was the middle of the Italian renaissance, in the middle of the lives of Michelangelo (1475-1564), Leonardo da Vinci (1452-1519), and Raphael (1483-1520),

In Holland, this was the time of Erasmus and the spreading of the Bible.

Christopher Columbus took Jews with him on his voyages of discovery.

1588 The Spanish Sea power was broken as their Armada was destroyed in a freak storm and by the skill of the English navy. The English antipathy toward the Jews was reversing in England. This was the Elizabethan age of England, the time of Shakespeare, when religious toleration and prosperity grew in England.

Meanwhile the Portuguese lost their world trading empire to the Dutch, starting with the "Happy Return" of the first Dutch trading fleet. The Dutch were the only ones allowed to trade with Japan and the Far East.

The Ottoman Muslims enjoyed their "Golden Age", famous for their inventions and compilation of scientific advances, including Algebra and a vaccine against rabies.

1530-1550? The 150-year welcome for Jews in Germany came to an abrupt end as Martin Luther (1483-1546) changed from a friendly attitude to frustration and a call for Jews to be expelled and their property seized. Ironically, his archenemy, Pope Paul IV, at the same time, also joined in a call for Jews to be expelled from Catholic Germany.

1618-1648 The Thirty Years War tore Germany apart into 360 small rival kingdoms and spread suffering, famine, torture, and death throughout Germany. Germany lost around half of its men, mostly those in their reproductive years and a church leader called for surviving German men to take two wives to avoid the extinction of the German people.

Many Jews escaped to Eastern Europe and Russia. 1682-1796 was the time of the great expansion of Russia under Peter the Great and Catherine the Great.

1652 England , under Oliver Cromwell, officially welcomed Jews back in.

England became a leader in first the scientific revolution, then the industrial revolution, with scientists such as Isaac Newton (who published his Principia in 1687) and Robert Boyle, then many others later such as James Watt, Eli Whitney and George Stephenson.

1763 The first Jewish synagogue was founded in North America

1776 With the financial aid of a Jew, Haym Solomon, and the sacrifice of many Jews who fought in the Revolutionary War, the United States of America was founded.

1812 Under Napoleon, restrictions against Jews were abolished in France and Germany.

In the 1800's anti-Jewish feeling began to rise in Russia and many Jews emigrated to Germany, America, and other places. (I was told that at this time Germany also became anti-semit toward the Jews and caused many to leave. My family left Germany at this time and came to the US.)(Shalhevet)

1868-1880 Under Queen Victoria, laws requiring government officials to be members of the Church of England were repealed, allowing a Jew, Benjamin Disraeli, to become prime minister. [Strictly speaking this is inaccurate, Disraeli had been converted to Christianity as a child along with other members of his family-editor]

The British Empire expanded world-wide.

1871 Germany reunited under Bismarck and Kaiser Wilhelm after several hundred years of division. Germany then invented the gasoline engine and the automobile (by Karl Benz in 1885) and became an industrial giant and a world power.

1880-1914 Russia initiated pogroms against Jewish communities, killing and expelling many Jews who escaped to Germany, America and other places.

1917 Czar Nicholas was forced to abdicate and was killed in the Communist Revolution. Russia gave up WWI, losing territory in the agreement.
The same year, Britain signed the Balfour Declaration, in favor of a homeland for Israel. Britain and the U.S. then won WWI and Britain and France were given control of the Middle East, Britain having authority over the land of Palestine.

1920-1940 Anti-Jewish sentiment rose in Germany, Italy and Poland. The NAZIs came to power with the goal of destroying the Jews. Albert Einstein, Enrico Fermi and other Jewish scientists were taken by the U.S. as refugees from Germany and Italy.

1945 The U. S. and Britain won WWII, stopped the Jewish holocaust and the U.S. began a phenomenal technological development. Russia allowed Jewish scientists to work in the Soviet Union and also began to advance technologically.

The Scandinavian countries, famous for saving Jews from the NAZIs, also prospered greatly in peace.

1947 Britain was afraid to take a stand for the Jews in Palestine because of the Muslims and turned the country over to the U.N.
The same year, Britain lost India as a colony.

1948 The U.S. sponsored the nation Israel under the U.N. and the modern state of Israel was born. Britain lost Burma and Ceylon. The U.S. added territories and Alaska and Hawaii as states.

1950-1961 Britain lost almost all of the rest of its colonies around the world.
The U.S. continued its growth in technology and power. The U.S. supplied (and received) military technology and equipment to Israel.

Russia supplied military technology to Israel's enemies. Israel defeated the technology and Russia lost its technological advantage.

1980 and afterward Germany expressed repentance for the holocaust. German young people went to Israel to care for elderly Jews. Germany was reunited in 1989.

1978 The U.S. pressured Israel to give back the Sinai to Egypt in the Camp David accords. President Carter lost the 1980 election to Ronald Reagan.
Steel factories and other industries shut down. Inflation and other economic problems become rampant. The U.S. lost more industry and technological advantage.

1991 The U.S. helped save Israel from Saddam Hussein's weapons, including a one-kilometer long gun based on NAZI technology. However, the president George Bush began to put pressure on Israel to make concessions to the Muslims. He lost the 1992 election to Bill Clinton.

The Secretary of the U.S. Treasury under Clinton was a Jew, Robert Rubin. The U.S. enjoyed a better economy until the end of Clinton's presidency neared. (I am well aware that many of George Bush's policies were apparently responsible for the economic well being of the Clinton years. This is not about analyzing specific immediate causes. It is about the blessing of God, who can use any cause He wishes.)

The second George Bush has made it a stated goal to achieve a Palestinian State during his administration, requiring Israel to return the territories conquered in the 1967 six-day war, apparently thinking that it will result in peace, although the fundamentalist Muslims have made it clear that the only acceptable option to them is to control the whole land of Israel.

2000 U.S. economy began to turn down, accentuated by the World Trade Center destruction

2002 U.S. attacked Afghanistan and Iraq.

2003 The "Road Map to peace" signed requiring Israel to give back land for a Palestinian state.

2005 The United States pressured Israel to follow the "road map" and give up the Gaza strip. This went into effect August 15, 2005.

2006 ???

Now my conclusions and comments:
Each of these historical developments has individual and local causes and associated events, such as wise or foolish decisions and the morality of society and countries' leaders. However, the common factor in all of them is too clear and pervasive to be just a coincidence. It must be that God permits those other factors based on His promise to Abram and the blessing or cursing that the country deserves. It is clear evidence to me that the declaration of God is true. Now, if some weird guy with side curls comes up and says he is a Jew, should we not be on the safe side and bless him, rather than bet on a wild notion that he is really an imposter from Esau and risk the wrath of God by cursing him?

Dare we make some predictions for the future based on this? There aredifferent degrees of cursing and blessing and, at times, there is a kind of mixed bag. The U.S. certainly is not expelling Jews or severely persecuting them. However, we do have a lesson from the Camp David fiasco as to what to expect next from the road map fiasco. The U.S. has had economic trouble and seems to be on an upturn. However, I, just from the records above, say that the U.S. economy is headed for the pits. There will be blame thrown right and left and economic and political talk, but the Bible and history tell us the real reason. May God have mercy on the U.S.

Quoted: Actually I kind of expected them to be converted to Mosques, that is what has usually happened throughout history.

That would be a reasonable action of reasonable people. I don't think we are dealing with reasonable people.

Quoted: ...

Interesting read!


Cliff notes for those who don't want to read the whole thing:


"I will bless those who bless you and I will curse him who curses you" - Genesis 12:3

Quoted: All that said, I'm a fairly strong supporter of the present-day, non-biblical nation of Israel in general terms, but only after MY OWN COUNTRY.

Watch it, or the Israel First lobby around here will brand you a antisemite for not putting their country first.

I hope these idiots do one thing wrong, and let the bull out of the pen.  I wouldn't mind if Israel cleaned shop over in that region of the world.

The present-day NATION of Israel has less in common with the biblical TRIBE of Israel than Hosni Mubarak's Egypt of today does with the pharonic Egypt of the bible. .

That is pretty much my understanding as well, except for the fact that Israel was indeed a nation during biblical times; comprising the twelve tribes plus Ephraim and Mannaseh.

Some of the people referred to as "jews" today may indeed be of the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but they are by no means the only ones.

That area was prospering under the Isreal.  Wonder how long it will take those Camel fuckers to turn it into a third world shithole.  If the Detroit area is any example, not long.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A) Maybe you people can fix my history for me cause B) I think my history is all confused. A) Do your own homework. B) You are correct. I did my homework, and the post was what i came up with. And no, your "bumber sticker philosophy" retort has done nothing to prove my facts incorrect. All i ask is that you prove that any of my facts are incorrect, which you have failed to do. (basically cause you can't) Maybe you were thinking i was just another dumb Americanski who if asked about the problems of the middle east will shrug and say "oh gee the Jews and arabs have been fighting since bible times." Sorry to dissappoint but unlike 90% of the people, i read books.

I don't think Andrew MacDonald's illustrated classic One Fish, Two Fish, Filthy Jew Fish was a good choice.

Quoted: I hope these idiots do one thing wrong, and let the bull out of the pen.  I wouldn't mind if Israel cleaned shop over in that region of the world.

Don't worry, Palestiniams never missed an occasion to miss an occasion... if they can screw up something they will screw up.

I don't love them at all, but I hope that I am wrong this time...

Quoted:
I hope these idiots do one thing wrong, and let the bull out of the pen. I wouldn't mind if Israel cleaned shop over in that region of the world.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Don't worry, Palestiniams never missed an occasion to miss an occasion... if they can screw up something they will screw up.

I don't love them at all, but I hope that I am wrong this time...

Your not wrong.

I can't really blame them, If I had the opportunity I would burn every mosque to the ground and piss on the cornerstone.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A) Maybe you people can fix my history for me cause B) I think my history is all confused. A) Do your own homework. B) You are correct. I did my homework, and the post was what i came up with. And no, your "bumber sticker philosophy" retort has done nothing to prove my facts incorrect. All i ask is that you prove that any of my facts are incorrect, which you have failed to do. (basically cause you can't) Maybe you were thinking i was just another dumb Americanski who if asked about the problems of the middle east will shrug and say "oh gee the Jews and arabs have been fighting since bible times." Sorry to dissappoint but unlike 90% of the people, i read books. I don't think Andrew MacDonald's illustrated classic One Fish, Two Fish, Filthy Jew Fish was a good choice.

Oh gee, you pull out the Anti-semite card, well theres a shocker. well heres a challenge for you, go back and find one thing I said that was bad about Jews (and not about Isreali foreign policy) And i will personally suck your dick cowboy! Go ahead IM your address and i will show up at your door and Suck you off! And if your not into Boys (I assume by your posts you are) I'll freakin hire a hooker instead! and it wont be no 2$ crack ho, I'll get you a 'Platinum babies' NYC escort! $1000 a blow boyo! All you have to do is prove i made anti-semetic remarks and within 24 hours you'll be in suck heavan.

PS- oh and I accused you of 'bumper sticker philosophy' and ask you to prove my arguements wrong to which your one sentance reply is 'stop reading nazi childrens books'. well that only goes to show how retarted you really are. So now I expect your reply to this post will be something like "nah nah na nah nah..... nah   you Nazi fag!"  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A) Maybe you people can fix my history for me cause B) I think my history is all confused. A) Do your own homework. B) You are correct. I did my homework, and the post was what i came up with. And no, your "bumber sticker philosophy" retort has done nothing to prove my facts incorrect. All i ask is that you prove that any of my facts are incorrect, which you have failed to do. (basically cause you can't) Maybe you were thinking i was just another dumb Americanski who if asked about the problems of the middle east will shrug and say "oh gee the Jews and arabs have been fighting since bible times." Sorry to dissappoint but unlike 90% of the people, i read books. I don't think Andrew MacDonald's illustrated classic One Fish, Two Fish, Filthy Jew Fish was a good choice. Oh gee, you pull out the Anti-semite card, well theres a shocker. well heres a challenge for you, go back and find one thing I said that was bad about Jews (and not about Isreali foreign policy) And i will personally suck your dick cowboy! Go ahead IM your address and i will show up at your door and Suck you off! And if your not into Boys (I assume by your posts you are) I'll freakin hire a hooker instead! and it wont be no 2$ crack ho, I'll get you a 'Platinum babies' NYC escort! $1000 a blow boyo! All you have to do is prove i made anti-semetic remarks and within 24 hours you'll be in suck heavan. PS- oh and I accused you of 'bumper sticker philosophy' and ask you to prove my arguements wrong to which your one sentance reply is 'stop reading nazi childrens books'. well that only goes to show how retarted you really are. So now I expect your reply to this post will be something like "nah nah na nah nah..... nah   you Nazi fag!"

Sounds like you really want to give this guy a blowjob.

I can't really blame them, If I had the opportunity I would burn every mosque to the ground and piss on the cornerstone

+1

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A) Maybe you people can fix my history for me cause B) I think my history is all confused. A) Do your own homework. B) You are correct. I did my homework, and the post was what i came up with. And no, your "bumber sticker philosophy" retort has done nothing to prove my facts incorrect. All i ask is that you prove that any of my facts are incorrect, which you have failed to do. (basically cause you can't) Maybe you were thinking i was just another dumb Americanski who if asked about the problems of the middle east will shrug and say "oh gee the Jews and arabs have been fighting since bible times." Sorry to dissappoint but unlike 90% of the people, i read books. I don't think Andrew MacDonald's illustrated classic One Fish, Two Fish, Filthy Jew Fish was a good choice. Oh gee, you pull out the Anti-semite card, well theres a shocker. well heres a challenge for you, go back and find one thing I said that was bad about Jews (and not about Isreali foreign policy) And i will personally suck your dick cowboy! Go ahead IM your address and i will show up at your door and Suck you off! And if your not into Boys (I assume by your posts you are) I'll freakin hire a hooker instead! and it wont be no 2$ crack ho, I'll get you a 'Platinum babies' NYC escort! $1000 a blow boyo! All you have to do is prove i made anti-semetic remarks and within 24 hours you'll be in suck heavan. PS- oh and I accused you of 'bumper sticker philosophy' and ask you to prove my arguements wrong to which your one sentance reply is 'stop reading nazi childrens books'. well that only goes to show how retarted you really are. So now I expect your reply to this post will be something like "nah nah na nah nah..... nah   you Nazi fag!"

Wow, this thread just took a REALLY WRONG turn...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A) Maybe you people can fix my history for me cause B) I think my history is all confused. A) Do your own homework. B) You are correct. I did my homework, and the post was what i came up with. And no, your "bumber sticker philosophy" retort has done nothing to prove my facts incorrect. All i ask is that you prove that any of my facts are incorrect, which you have failed to do. (basically cause you can't) Maybe you were thinking i was just another dumb Americanski who if asked about the problems of the middle east will shrug and say "oh gee the Jews and arabs have been fighting since bible times." Sorry to dissappoint but unlike 90% of the people, i read books. I don't think Andrew MacDonald's illustrated classic One Fish, Two Fish, Filthy Jew Fish was a good choice. Oh gee, you pull out the Anti-semite card, well theres a shocker. well heres a challenge for you, go back and find one thing I said that was bad about Jews (and not about Isreali foreign policy) And i will personally suck your dick cowboy! Go ahead IM your address and i will show up at your door and Suck you off! And if your not into Boys (I assume by your posts you are) I'll freakin hire a hooker instead! and it wont be no 2$ crack ho, I'll get you a 'Platinum babies' NYC escort! $1000 a blow boyo! All you have to do is prove i made anti-semetic remarks and within 24 hours you'll be in suck heavan. PS- oh and I accused you of 'bumper sticker philosophy' and ask you to prove my arguements wrong to which your one sentance reply is 'stop reading nazi childrens books'. well that only goes to show how retarted you really are. So now I expect your reply to this post will be something like "nah nah na nah nah..... nah   you Nazi fag!"   Wow, this thread just took a REALLY WRONG turn...

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PS- Ernst Rohm is a hero o' mine

Release Smallpox on the fuckers.

Out of some 140 village mosques that were abandoned

as were the synagogues right?  So what was the argument again?

Quoted: bump because I typed all that shit out.

Nice piece of writing. I learned quite a bit.

Quoted: Quoted: bump because I typed all that shit out. Nice piece of writing. I learned quite a bit.

Honestly, I did too - nice use of sarcasm, BTW.

Destroying mosques is a strategic move... they are notorious for being meeting and recruiting grounds

for Islamic Jihad groups. I don't think there has ever been widespread evidence of Jews using

Synagogues to develop terrorist attacks.

Quoted: I don't know why I bother. Lets talk Gaza. Gaza is a city (no shit right) Ironically initially created by the original phillistines, who were an Aegian people who settled the Israeli Coast in biblical times. After the muslim conquest back in 600 AD (or CE, if you prefer), all indiginous people of the region except for the jews, druise, a few circasians, coptics, allawites were replaced with arabs (from, you guessed it, arabia) Unless the Egyptian, Syrian, Jordanian, Palestinian, etc. identifies themselves as one of the above, they are an arab.  No different than any other arab from UAE to Libya.   The city of Gaza (which is all that was there prior to 1948) was pure arab.  Identical in beliefs, customs and languages to the arabs of Egypt and Jordan and Syria. In 1948, arabs in Israel were fed the lines of bullshit that I am sure you found believable (the jews are weak and can't defend themselves, move out of the way so we may slaughter them all in the name of allah).  Now, when the arab on the ground saw the reality, they were told, "the jews will kill you all, look at Dier Yassan!!!  Run for your lives, the jews are blood thirsty monsters!"  So the arabs did what all good arabs do in time of crisis, they ran. The Egyptians controlled the area around Gaza (now called the gaza strip)  Interestingly enough, a LTC by the name of Gamel Abdel Nasser was one of the more capable defenders of that little piece of desert. Now, the Jordanian king was land rich and population poor and made the refugee's citizens.  The Egyptians did not make the residents of Gaza Egyptian citizens.  They locked them in that little strip, gave them guns and explosives (though no food, that came from the UN) and had them go out and kill the jews.   1956, that same abdel nasser came back and shut down the straights of tiran and isolated the Israeli port of Elait (this is what as known, in books no less, as a Causus Belli) and israel took almost all the sinai (except gaza, which they had no desire for).  Then the Jew loving american state department (led by a raving anti-semite in John Foster Dulles) ordered the jews to give it back (note, this was in the days prior to any American aid to Israel). As Israel handed the Sinai back to the Egyptians, and UNPROFOR (look it up) stood as a buffer along the Negev. Terrorist attacks were still launched from Gaza into the Negev, but I am sure that is inconsequential as its just jews dying. 1967-Syrian and Egypt combine to form the UAR.  And Egyptian Field Marshall comes to take command of the Jordanian forces.  Nasser again shuts down the straights of Tiran.  Nasser kicks the UNPROFOR (look it up) out of Sinai and masses troops on the Israeli border.  he then declares his intent to destroy the Israeli state and "drive the jews into the sea"  Now, I am sure 22 years after the holocaust (or holohoax in your lexicon) the jews should have taken this as a little joke and sloughed it off. But, being blood thirsty nazi like neo-colonolists who wish to drink christian( whoops, meant to say muslim) blood on Purim (or is it passover?  I always mix those up)  The war mongering jews attacked the poor innocent arabs and beat their ass in what is known in Israel and the Western World as the 6 day war (it has no name in the arab world, they kinda pretend it never happened) Gaza went down as did the West Bank and Golan Heights (the golan being where innocent arab artilleryman would shell war-mongering jewish farmers plowing their fields.  This practice led to the little practiced art of up-armoring a john deere. More arabs ran to Jordan (none went to Egypt, because Egypt wouldn't take them.  Nor would Syria or Lebanon.  Weird, huh?)  But most stayed.  Having seen that arabs that stayed in Israel after 1948 became citizens and enjoyed the highest quality of life for any arabs outside of the oil states (weird, those racist, nazi war mongering bloodthirsty JEEEEEWWWWWSSSSS (you know you want me to say it like that) gave the arabs voting rights and made them full citizens (except exempting them from the draft)) From 1967-1973 the neo-colonialist jews did nothing with the "Occupied Territories" except offer them back to Egypt, Jordan and Syria in exchange for recognition with Israel.  The arabs, being peaceful at heart, didn't fall for the zionist ruse and instead met in khartoum for the famous (well, not so famous, you'll have to look it up) "three noes" resolution. Oh, btw, the PLO (look it up) was founded in 1964, prior to the nazi-like zionists conquering the "occupied territories".  And Yassir Arafat, the quintessintial palestinian, he was born in Cairo. Guess they are all the same after all. 1973 comes.  The peace loving arabs, afriad that the jews might strike Mecca and Medina next as they swarmed towards the synagogues for Yom Kippur (maybe that is the day they drink christian children's blood?) move a few hundred thousand peacekeepers into the Sinai and Northern Israel.  Please note that there were no settlements in the Sinai, Gaza or the West Bank at this time.  6 years those neo-colonists were too busy drinking christian children's blood to get around to it. Israel, now backed by the United States (Nixon was the savoir of Israel, I love to remind American liberal jews of that little fact) beat their ass again. The jews, being both the most disgusting creatures on earth and the most clever figured something out.  The arabs have nothing to lose by doing terrorist attacks endlessly because the occupied territories remain solely arab.  What if we gave them a penalty for failing to negotiate? Hence was born, the settlements.  Israel induced a time penalty to the arabs for failing to negotiate.  Settlements were created in Sinai (which, since 1967 supplied Israel with almost all its oil requirements), gaza strip (nice coast, so I have been told) and, of course jerusalem and the west bank (known in zionist circles as Judiah Summariah (sounds more biblical, doesn't it) Well, suddenly, the Egyptians want to negotiate.  Leading to 1977 Camp David.  Israel tears down all its settlements  in the Sinai(guess who did that?  Oh wait, you don't know do you.  Ariel Sharon) and hands the territories over to the Egyptians. The Israelis also offered to do the same in Gaza but the Egyptians TURNED THEM DOWN.  Instead preferring Israel to deal with the "Palestinian Problem" So Gaza could have been Judenfrie 30 years ago except the Egyptians said no. Maybe you should read a little more before opening your cock holster.

Yasher Koach. That is pretty good , I might cut and paste is somewhere in the future. Although you forgot to work in some of my all time favorites, Such as Pattons remarks after attending a FEAST at a Shul on Yom Kippur and The Talmud's quotes on baby raping.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: bump because I typed all that shit out. Nice piece of writing. I learned quite a bit. Honestly, I did too - nice use of sarcasm, BTW.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I really did learn a lot.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: bump because I typed all that shit out. Nice piece of writing. I learned quite a bit. Honestly, I did too - nice use of sarcasm, BTW. I wasn't being sarcastic. I really did learn a lot.

I was referring to the sarcasm Sylvan used.

I was being serious - I enjoyed the read.

Quoted: I don't know why I bother. Lets talk Gaza. Gaza is a city (no shit right) Ironically initially created by the original phillistines, who were an Aegian people who settled the Israeli Coast in biblical times. After the muslim conquest back in 600 AD (or CE, if you prefer), all indiginous people of the region except for the jews, druise, a few circasians, coptics, allawites were replaced with arabs (from, you guessed it, arabia) Unless the Egyptian, Syrian, Jordanian, Palestinian, etc. identifies themselves as one of the above, they are an arab.  No different than any other arab from UAE to Libya.   The city of Gaza (which is all that was there prior to 1948) was pure arab.  Identical in beliefs, customs and languages to the arabs of Egypt and Jordan and Syria. In 1948, arabs in Israel were fed the lines of bullshit that I am sure you found believable (the jews are weak and can't defend themselves, move out of the way so we may slaughter them all in the name of allah).  Now, when the arab on the ground saw the reality, they were told, "the jews will kill you all, look at Dier Yassan!!!  Run for your lives, the jews are blood thirsty monsters!"  So the arabs did what all good arabs do in time of crisis, they ran. The Egyptians controlled the area around Gaza (now called the gaza strip)  Interestingly enough, a LTC by the name of Gamel Abdel Nasser was one of the more capable defenders of that little piece of desert. Now, the Jordanian king was land rich and population poor and made the refugee's citizens.  The Egyptians did not make the residents of Gaza Egyptian citizens.  They locked them in that little strip, gave them guns and explosives (though no food, that came from the UN) and had them go out and kill the jews.   1956, that same abdel nasser came back and shut down the straights of tiran and isolated the Israeli port of Elait (this is what as known, in books no less, as a Causus Belli) and israel took almost all the sinai (except gaza, which they had no desire for).  Then the Jew loving american state department (led by a raving anti-semite in John Foster Dulles) ordered the jews to give it back (note, this was in the days prior to any American aid to Israel). As Israel handed the Sinai back to the Egyptians, and UNPROFOR (look it up) stood as a buffer along the Negev. Terrorist attacks were still launched from Gaza into the Negev, but I am sure that is inconsequential as its just jews dying. 1967-Syrian and Egypt combine to form the UAR.  And Egyptian Field Marshall comes to take command of the Jordanian forces.  Nasser again shuts down the straights of Tiran.  Nasser kicks the UNPROFOR (look it up) out of Sinai and masses troops on the Israeli border.  he then declares his intent to destroy the Israeli state and "drive the jews into the sea"  Now, I am sure 22 years after the holocaust (or holohoax in your lexicon) the jews should have taken this as a little joke and sloughed it off. But, being blood thirsty nazi like neo-colonolists who wish to drink christian( whoops, meant to say muslim) blood on Purim (or is it passover?  I always mix those up)  The war mongering jews attacked the poor innocent arabs and beat their ass in what is known in Israel and the Western World as the 6 day war (it has no name in the arab world, they kinda pretend it never happened) Gaza went down as did the West Bank and Golan Heights (the golan being where innocent arab artilleryman would shell war-mongering jewish farmers plowing their fields.  This practice led to the little practiced art of up-armoring a john deere. More arabs ran to Jordan (none went to Egypt, because Egypt wouldn't take them.  Nor would Syria or Lebanon.  Weird, huh?)  But most stayed.  Having seen that arabs that stayed in Israel after 1948 became citizens and enjoyed the highest quality of life for any arabs outside of the oil states (weird, those racist, nazi war mongering bloodthirsty JEEEEEWWWWWSSSSS (you know you want me to say it like that) gave the arabs voting rights and made them full citizens (except exempting them from the draft)) From 1967-1973 the neo-colonialist jews did nothing with the "Occupied Territories" except offer them back to Egypt, Jordan and Syria in exchange for recognition with Israel.  The arabs, being peaceful at heart, didn't fall for the zionist ruse and instead met in khartoum for the famous (well, not so famous, you'll have to look it up) "three noes" resolution. Oh, btw, the PLO (look it up) was founded in 1964, prior to the nazi-like zionists conquering the "occupied territories".  And Yassir Arafat, the quintessintial palestinian, he was born in Cairo. Guess they are all the same after all. 1973 comes.  The peace loving arabs, afriad that the jews might strike Mecca and Medina next as they swarmed towards the synagogues for Yom Kippur (maybe that is the day they drink christian children's blood?) move a few hundred thousand peacekeepers into the Sinai and Northern Israel.  Please note that there were no settlements in the Sinai, Gaza or the West Bank at this time.  6 years those neo-colonists were too busy drinking christian children's blood to get around to it. Israel, now backed by the United States (Nixon was the savoir of Israel, I love to remind American liberal jews of that little fact) beat their ass again. The jews, being both the most disgusting creatures on earth and the most clever figured something out.  The arabs have nothing to lose by doing terrorist attacks endlessly because the occupied territories remain solely arab.  What if we gave them a penalty for failing to negotiate? Hence was born, the settlements.  Israel induced a time penalty to the arabs for failing to negotiate.  Settlements were created in Sinai (which, since 1967 supplied Israel with almost all its oil requirements), gaza strip (nice coast, so I have been told) and, of course jerusalem and the west bank (known in zionist circles as Judiah Summariah (sounds more biblical, doesn't it) Well, suddenly, the Egyptians want to negotiate.  Leading to 1977 Camp David.  Israel tears down all its settlements  in the Sinai(guess who did that?  Oh wait, you don't know do you.  Ariel Sharon) and hands the territories over to the Egyptians. The Israelis also offered to do the same in Gaza but the Egyptians TURNED THEM DOWN.  Instead preferring Israel to deal with the "Palestinian Problem" So Gaza could have been Judenfrie 30 years ago except the Egyptians said no. Maybe you should read a little more before opening your cock holster.

Actually, since you went to the trouble to type such a long treatise I figure maybe you are someone who knows the history instead of being a bonehead about it. But #1 i would like to state my personal view first, All the stinkin ROP'ers can rot for all I care as well as anyone else over there. Problem is when something goes on over there it's violence can travel to the US. So suddenly making peace in the ME becomes my concern. First off when dealing with those problems you are dealing at two levels, One is the leaders and diplomats who draw lines on paper maps and second is the actual individual people on the ground. You know, like Ali- baba who lives in Gaza. You seem to defend Isreal's actions but you offer no solutions! Are the Egyptians assholes? Sure. But how does that help the individuals living in Gaza?? They are still there! For example take the strip, What nation do they belong to? What is their citizenship? you yourself state

The Egyptians did not make the residents of Gaza Egyptian citizens.

So they were NOT egyptians. Once Isreal took control of Gaza, what were they? "stateless"? or were they Isrealis now? and if not, why not? So now you have these people living in Gaza, women and children as well, what should you do with them? Expel them? to Where? No country is obligated to take them, would the US have done so? So some here claim there is no such thing as a palestinian, well then what are the people living in the Gaza strip? figments of my imagination?
Sure you can say "arab" but so what? That's like saying all eastern Europeans are "slavs" but does that mean Poland has to allow Russians to emigrate in unlimited numbers to polish territory?
So you go on to say

What if we gave them a penalty for failing to negotiate? Hence was born, the settlements.  Israel induced a time penalty to the arabs for failing to negotiate.

So Now the peace process is slowly going foward and to get it going Ariel Sharon also dismantles the Gaza Settlements. What's the big deal? This will start the creation of a palestinian state (yes even if one never exsisted before!) But you also fail to mention one thing that has changed, Gaza is now completely sealed off from Isreal by a security fence. The days of terrorists living in Gaza and launching attacks into the Negev are not possable. So with the border sealed what interest does Isreal really have with keeping settlements in Gaza??

Quoted: Quoted: All that said, I'm a fairly strong supporter of the present-day, non-biblical nation of Israel in general terms, but only after MY OWN COUNTRY. Watch it, or the Israel First lobby around here will brand you a antisemite for not putting their country first.

True, true.  I am a Christian, who beieves the Bible also.  But I am an American and a patriot and am not so sure anymore about the "entangling alliance" we seem to have with Israel.  I guess this makes me a Nazi to some of the folks here, and thats too bad.  I won't curse Israel, but I wonder sometimes about what they do.  I am also convinced, after spending a year here in Iraq, that everyone in the middle-east is nuts!

Quoted: This practice led to the little practiced art of up-armoring a john deere.

I read the whole thing thanks for taking the time. I enjoyed this one line so much I had to let you know.

I read this whole thread and still dont see why I should give a crap if someone burns a former place of worship that the owner abandons.

Burn it and post pic's.