Quoted: Alright I expect none of you to bitch about the fucking border since you all feel he's doing such a great job. Let the fucking mexicans rule this country. Let the fucking chaos in NO to happen let our country just fall fucking apart. I mean bush is the fucking greatest president we have ever had. He makes Theodore Roosevelt look like a commie bastard, I mean bush is a fucking god right?

It seems like someone is manstrating again.

President Bush doesn't have a magic wand, you know. Or did you forget that there are literally millions of people who dedicate themselves to frustrating every move he would make?

Bush isn't a dictator. In a Republic, you have to have public support to accomplish anything. The media, the dimocrats, week kneed "republicans" and folks eager to be canibals ensure that any progress is made slowly if at all.

Welcome to the realities of politics in 2005.

Quoted: Quoted: And what the fuck can bush do for NO? Easy he can send 1,000's of troops to provide security( Not sure if any of you have been listing to the scanner but it is rather obvious there is not control and they do not have enough NG's. He can have a lot of shit done. The president is not the primary government in NO unless martial law is declared. That may be next but the impotent governor has the primary responsibility. You see we are the United STATES of America, not the USSR.

I was under the impression it has been and for some time And the Governor has said he will step aside just to get the help they need.

Oly for president, he talks as much shit as Kerry! Everyone seems to have better ideas, but none can say anything about them except  "I pay my taxes".

Give me a break.

Bush can't order the active army to the city because of some federal law, it it up to the national guard. So if you are that pissed off, call your governor for not pitching in and using your property taxes to help save degenerates and crackheads.

Reads like this thread is more about Oly needing attention, than providing comfort to anyone in LA.


Bud your credibility is in the crapper & you've become intractable in your position.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just the shit he has been up to lately, just has been staying real low key with everything going one Grow up, you're brainwashed. So let me know the fucking great changes bush has done to correct what bill fucked up? What the FUCK are you talking about?  He's changed everythng he could.  The only area he's fucked up in is immigration. Immigration and letting that fuck clinton near the White House. I'm reserving judgment on the clinton thing until I see what useful purpose he might have, still can't figure that one out though. Hell he wants his pops and fucking bill to raise money for the flood. He loves fucking clinton, no fucking suprise here.

Yeah and I bet you voted for that traitor clinton twice.

Quoted: Quoted: I could give a fucking shit what the media has to say, I care about what the fuck is happening. NO needs fucking troops we can deploy 10,000's of troops to iraq in hours to help some poor fucking iraqi,  but for our own fucking country our goverment doesnt do a god damn fucking thing. And it goes to show simply look at the border all they need from us is our labor. After that fuck us. What a world of help just a few thousand troops would have done the day after all of this. What planet are you from and where do you get these lies? Do you know what has been sent down to NO? Obviously not. The liberal news is all you must be watching because the reports I have been seeing are a lot more in line with a massive movement of aid.

It's not fucking aid they need, they need control what fucking good will aid do as I have posted. And I got my news from the radio talk on the scanners. FUCK THE MEDIA the whole Bunch of them the fucking sob's

Quoted: And I don't give a shit if bush ever sets foot in LA, I just want to see him act and not wait a week until it's to late. And I don't want to hear fucking speeches how the country is with NO, I want him to command and take control. It would take him 24 hours to help mexico if this had happened off the coast of mexico, he would ask for $50 billion to give them a fucking hand. He just doesnt give a fuck about us, he wants to help the world but not us.

Someone needs some Mangasil

Fucking fucking fucking. A real educated word for the common use.

Quoted: Oly for president, he talks as much shit as Kerry! Everyone seems to have better ideas, but none can say anything about them except  "I pay my taxes". Give me a break. Bush can't order the active army to the city because of some federal law, it it up to the national guard. So if you are that pissed off, call your governor for not pitching in and using your property taxes to help save degenerates and crackheads.

Okay, so your telling me thats all that is left? Hmm okay what fucking ever, and for the crack heads I say they fucking go in in the night with the NG and put and end to this shit by force with a peice of lead with a nice copper wrapper.

Quoted: And what the fuck can bush do for NO? Easy he can send 1,000's of troops to provide security( Not sure if any of you have been listing to the scanner but it is rather obvious there is not control and they do not have enough NG's. He can have a lot of shit done.

Let's say for a moment that Bush put troops into NO with shoot to kill orders on day one. (Which, of course, is not LEGALLY POSSIBLE thanks to inconvenient things like the Constutition that strictly prohibit the use of military forces against civilians....) Now let's say that those troops do what they are told, and shoot these looting suckers on sight.

Do you really think you would be happy then?

I doubt it.

In fact, I think there would be a massive media lead uproar about it, and suddenly these thugs who are shooting at cops and hijacking relief supplies would become innocent people just trying to get some water and food, and big bad old Bush would be murdering them in the streets.

It is always easy to tell those who have never had to carry the burden of command and leadership. Because those are the first people to suggest how things should be done but who lack any real ability to accomplish anything.

Being President is a hell of a lot harder than anyone thinks. I think it is the hardest job on earth, and I'm still way off.

Quoted: Fucking fucking fucking. A real educated word for the common use.

Who gives a fuck.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I could give a fucking shit what the media has to say, I care about what the fuck is happening. NO needs fucking troops we can deploy 10,000's of troops to iraq in hours to help some poor fucking iraqi,  but for our own fucking country our goverment doesnt do a god damn fucking thing. And it goes to show simply look at the border all they need from us is our labor. After that fuck us. What a world of help just a few thousand troops would have done the day after all of this. What planet are you from and where do you get these lies? Do you know what has been sent down to NO? Obviously not. The liberal news is all you must be watching because the reports I have been seeing are a lot more in line with a massive movement of aid. It's not fucking aid they need, they need control what fucking good will aid do as I have posted. And I got my news from the radio talk on the scanners. FUCK THE MEDIA the whole Bunch of them the fucking sob's

When I said aid I also meant the 30,000 troops that arrived.
Sorry you have sand in your mangina and it's not going as fast as you would like it to.
Maybe you can go down and help out?

Dude, can you lay off the "fucking", yes, I understand you are quite passionate about your chest beating thread.

Quoted: Quoted: Fucking fucking fucking. A real educated word for the common use. Who gives a fuck.

Har Har LOL hee hee

Quoted: And what the fuck can bush do for NO? Easy he can send 1,000's of troops to provide security( Not sure if any of you have been listing to the scanner but it is rather obvious there is not control and they do not have enough NG's. He can have a lot of shit done.

You know if the president sends the Guard they are federalized and subject to Posse Comitatus right?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just the shit he has been up to lately, just has been staying real low key with everything going one Grow up, you're brainwashed. So let me know the fucking great changes bush has done to correct what bill fucked up? What the FUCK are you talking about?  He's changed everythng he could.  The only area he's fucked up in is immigration. So what has he changed?

A better question is what HASN'T changed?  The fact you even ask shows your incredible and willful ignorance.

Quoted: Quoted: And what the fuck can bush do for NO? Easy he can send 1,000's of troops to provide security( Not sure if any of you have been listing to the scanner but it is rather obvious there is not control and they do not have enough NG's. He can have a lot of shit done. Let's say for a moment that Bush put troops into NO with shoot to kill orders on day one. (Which, of course, is not LEGALLY POSSIBLE thanks to inconvenient things like the Constutition that strictly prohibit the use of military forces against civilians....) Now let's say that those troops do what they are told, and shoot these looting suckers on sight. Do you really think you would be happy then? I doubt it. In fact, I think there would be a massive media lead uproar about it, and suddenly these thugs who are shooting at cops and hijacking relief supplies would become innocent people just trying to get some water and food, and big bad old Bush would be murdering them in the streets. It is always easy to tell those who have never had to carry the burden of command and leadership. Because those are the first people to suggest how things should be done but who lack any real ability to accomplish anything. Being President is a hell of a lot harder than anyone thinks. I think it is the hardest job on earth, and I'm still way off.

Who gives a fuck about the media who gives a fuck about votes. And I am rather sure harder jobs exist. If a fuck like clinton and carter can do it.

And why should these fucks be protected by the Constutition. It seems in the 60's a president knew what the fuck to do with people like this.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And what the fuck can bush do for NO? Easy he can send 1,000's of troops to provide security( Not sure if any of you have been listing to the scanner but it is rather obvious there is not control and they do not have enough NG's. He can have a lot of shit done. Let's say for a moment that Bush put troops into NO with shoot to kill orders on day one. (Which, of course, is not LEGALLY POSSIBLE thanks to inconvenient things like the Constutition that strictly prohibit the use of military forces against civilians....) Now let's say that those troops do what they are told, and shoot these looting suckers on sight. Do you really think you would be happy then? I doubt it. In fact, I think there would be a massive media lead uproar about it, and suddenly these thugs who are shooting at cops and hijacking relief supplies would become innocent people just trying to get some water and food, and big bad old Bush would be murdering them in the streets. It is always easy to tell those who have never had to carry the burden of command and leadership. Because those are the first people to suggest how things should be done but who lack any real ability to accomplish anything. Being President is a hell of a lot harder than anyone thinks. I think it is the hardest job on earth, and I'm still way off. Who gives a fuck about the media who gives a fuck about votes.

Apparently YOU do, since you're so fucking concerned with media portrayal of the president and his actions.

IIRC correctly from another thread you weren't around for a 60's president anyway...

Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that.

It is our duty to protect ourself and our families.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that. It is our duty to protect ourself and our families.

Why are we paying for a big ass military then?

Posse Comitatus link:  www.northcom.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.factsheets&factsheet=5

If the guard is federalized i.e. under the command of POTUS as CINC, they are no longer Title 32 forces, they are Title 10 forces.


Section 1385 of Title 18, United States Code (USC), states:

     “Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.”

The PCA does not apply to the U.S. Coast Guard in peacetime or to the National Guard in Title 32 or State Active Duty status. The substantive prohibitions of the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA) were extended to all the services with the enactment of Title 10 USC, Section 375. As required by Title 10 USC, Section 375 the secretary of defense issued Department of Defense Directive 5525.5, which precludes members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps from direct participation in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

The PCA generally prohibits U.S. military personnel from direct participation in law enforcement activities. Some of those law enforcement activities would include interdicting vehicles, vessels, and aircraft; conducting surveillance, searches, pursuit and seizures; or making arrests on behalf of civilian law enforcement authorities. Prohibiting direct military involvement in law enforcement is in keeping with long-standing U.S. law and policy limiting the military’s role in domestic affairs.

The United States Congress has enacted a number of exceptions to the PCA that allow the military, in certain situations, to assist civilian law enforcement agencies in enforcing the laws of the U.S. The most common example is counterdrug assistance (Title 10 USC, Sections 371-381). Other examples include:

   * The Insurrection Act (Title 10 USC, Sections 331-335). This act allows the president to use U.S. military personnel at the request of a state legislature or governor to suppress insurrections. It also allows the president to use federal troops to enforce federal laws when rebellion against the authority of the U.S. makes it impracticable to enforce the laws of the U.S.
   * Assistance in the case of crimes involving nuclear materials (Title 18 USC, Section 831). This statute permits DoD personnel to assist the Justice Department in enforcing prohibitions regarding nuclear materials, when the attorney general and the secretary of defense jointly determine that an “emergency situation” exists that poses a serious threat to U.S. interests and is beyond the capability of civilian law enforcement agencies.
   * Emergency situations involving chemical or biological weapons of mass destruction (Title 10 USC, Section 382). When the attorney general and the secretary of defense jointly determine that an “emergency situation” exists that poses a serious threat to U.S. interests and is beyond the capability of civilian law enforcement agencies. DoD personnel may assist the Justice Department in enforcing prohibitions regarding biological or chemical weapons of mass destruction.

Military support to civilian law enforcement is carried out in strict compliance with the Constitution and U.S. laws and under the direction of the president and secretary of defense.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that. It is our duty to protect ourself and our families.

Unforgiven
(Little Bill-Gene Hackman) You just shot an unarmed man!
(William Munny-Clint Eastwood) Well, he should have armed himself. . .


www.fugly.com/frameset.html?http://www.fugly.com/victims/victimx_15/clip001.shtml~mainFrame

Quoted: Quoted: Fucking fucking fucking. A real educated word for the common use. Who gives a fuck.

What a fucker!

Quoted: IIRC correctly from another thread you weren't around for a 60's president anyway...

So I take it since none of us lived in the 1700's George Washington wasnt a great man. After all no one here was around.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that. It is our duty to protect ourself and our families. Why are we paying for a big ass military then?

Domestically we are responsible for our own safety as well as our families safety.
I wouldn't have it any other way, would you?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that. It is our duty to protect ourself and our families. Why are we paying for a big ass military then?

To protect our country duhhhhhhhhh. The dipshits in NO are not foreigners. Cops and citizens should be kicking ass down there.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that. It is our duty to protect ourself and our families. Why are we paying for a big ass military then? To protect our country duhhhhhhhhh. The dipshits in NO are not foreigners. Cops and citizens should be kicking ass down there.

So the military is only for foreign threats and not domestic?

No matter what, if Bush could snap his fingers and instantly the problems would all be fixed, the liberals and media would continue to put him down. Oly, do you think it would be better under a Gore or kerry administration? Do you really think a liberal could do better  just because he is "more sensitive" (yeah, right) to the plight of the suffering? Bush has already given all authorization that he can at this time. There is a matter of due process contained in the USC that still has to be followed- unless you propose to suspend the USC for the duration of this emergency? That would meet your desire for Bush to do "something" but obviously, a bad idea.

I do agree about the immigration issue. That needs to be fixed and now.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that. It is our duty to protect ourself and our families. Why are we paying for a big ass military then? To protect our country duhhhhhhhhh. The dipshits in NO are not foreigners. Cops and citizens should be kicking ass down there. So the military is only for foreign threats and not domestic?

Yep.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just the shit he has been up to lately, just has been staying real low key with everything going one Grow up, you're brainwashed. So let me know the fucking great changes bush has done to correct what bill fucked up? What the FUCK are you talking about?  He's changed everythng he could.  The only area he's fucked up in is immigration. So what has he changed? A better question is what HASN'T changed?  The fact you even ask shows your incredible and willful ignorance.

brady handgun violence prevention act, is one and quite a few more. I can't recall a legislation that he has corrected or the goverment in general but since hes the big guy in the big house I put blame on him.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that. It is our duty to protect ourself and our families. Why are we paying for a big ass military then? Domestically we are responsible for our own safety as well as our families safety. I wouldn't have it any other way, would you?

I just face it as a fact of life.  I have the right to self defense so I invoke that right.  


I disagree that we are TOTALLY responsible for ourselfs in a state of SHTF.  Military is needed. And is being deployed.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that. It is our duty to protect ourself and our families. Why are we paying for a big ass military then? To protect our country duhhhhhhhhh. The dipshits in NO are not foreigners. Cops and citizens should be kicking ass down there. So the military is only for foreign threats and not domestic? Yep.

The first use of our military was for domestic threats.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that. It is our duty to protect ourself and our families. Why are we paying for a big ass military then? To protect our country duhhhhhhhhh. The dipshits in NO are not foreigners. Cops and citizens should be kicking ass down there. So the military is only for foreign threats and not domestic?

The Military can protect us domestically from a foreign invader.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that. It is our duty to protect ourself and our families. Why are we paying for a big ass military then? To protect our country duhhhhhhhhh. The dipshits in NO are not foreigners. Cops and citizens should be kicking ass down there. So the military is only for foreign threats and not domestic? Yep.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that. It is our duty to protect ourself and our families. Why are we paying for a big ass military then? To protect our country duhhhhhhhhh. The dipshits in NO are not foreigners. Cops and citizens should be kicking ass down there. So the military is only for foreign threats and not domestic? Yep. "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

No civil war has been declared.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that. It is our duty to protect ourself and our families. Why are we paying for a big ass military then? To protect our country duhhhhhhhhh. The dipshits in NO are not foreigners. Cops and citizens should be kicking ass down there. So the military is only for foreign threats and not domestic? Yep. "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

The domestic I believe is in the case of an invasion by foreign invaders or and attempted overthrow of the legal govt.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What the hell is he supposed to do . He didnt build a city w/ the shape of a ship's hull . It sank . No he didn't and it's not his fault either. But it's his duty to protect the country and the citizens of this country. And he seems to really suck at that. It is our duty to protect ourself and our families. Why are we paying for a big ass military then? To protect our country duhhhhhhhhh. The dipshits in NO are not foreigners. Cops and citizens should be kicking ass down there. So the military is only for foreign threats and not domestic? Yep. "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic The domestic I believe is in the case of an invasion by foreign invaders or and attempted overthrow of the legal govt.

And wtf is happening in NO?

I remember reading a book once, I think it was by Ragnar Benson.  It talked about Survival.  One thing he said, that used to be in the back of my mind but has suddenly been brought to the forefront, is this overriding rule of survival:  "NEVER become a refugee.  NEVER place your own security and safety in the hands of others."

As much as we don't like it, as much as we THINK things should be different, what we are seeing right now is how SOME humans can degenerate into animals overnight, given the right circumstances.  Unfortunately, most people these days are so conditioned to assuming that someone else will take care of their security that they were caught off-guard and are now paying the price.

Quoted: "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic No civil war has been declared.

So gangs totally take over your hometown. You are totally outgunned.  You don;t want thmilitary there?  

I don;t really understand your position because the military HAS been deployed.  You think it is the wrong thing to do?

Quoted: I disagree that we are TOTALLY responsible for ourselfs in a state of SHTF.  Military is needed. And is being deployed.

You see the problem here lays in the "genie back in the bottle" scenario.
Once out he never wants back into the bottle.

Quoted: The domestic I believe is in the case of an invasion by foreign invaders or and attempted overthrow of the legal govt.

I posted the act and exceptions to it a page back.  Please avail yourself of the opportunity to read it.  Info pulled from NORTHCOM's web page.

Quoted: Quoted: I disagree that we are TOTALLY responsible for ourselfs in a state of SHTF.  Military is needed. And is being deployed. You see the problem here lays in the "genie back in the bottle" scenario. Once out he never wants back into the bottle.

Too many people think other people are resposible for them. No personal accountability.

Quoted: Quoted: I disagree that we are TOTALLY responsible for ourselfs in a state of SHTF.  Military is needed. And is being deployed. You see the problem here lays in the "genie back in the bottle" scenario. Once out he never wants back into the bottle.

OK I for one want the good guys to come and kill the gang members if they come here in the thousands.  I am an ammo whore like everyone else but one person vs thousands is a slaughter.

Posse Comitatus Act

"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy ship/aircraft involvement.

Quoted: I remember reading a book once, I think it was by Ragnar Benson.  It talked about Survival.  One thing he said, that used to be in the back of my mind but has suddenly been brought to the forefront, is this overriding rule of survival:  "NEVER become a refugee.  NEVER place your own security and safety in the hands of others." As much as we don't like it, as much as we THINK things should be different, what we are seeing right now is how SOME humans can degenerate into animals overnight, given the right circumstances.  Unfortunately, most people these days are so conditioned to assuming that someone else will take care of their security that they were caught off-guard and are now paying the price.

Very well put.

I was also taken aback at how swift the transition to the animal level was.
It also lead me to contemplate that the animalistic tendency was lurking very shallow in some of these people.

Quoted: overriding rule of survival:  "NEVER become a refugee.  NEVER place your own security and safety in the hands of others."

That is a good line, check my sigline

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I disagree that we are TOTALLY responsible for ourselfs in a state of SHTF.  Military is needed. And is being deployed. You see the problem here lays in the "genie back in the bottle" scenario. Once out he never wants back into the bottle. Too many people think other people are resposible for them. No personal accountability.

But here is the problem the goverment is responsible for my safety ti a degree, this is why we pay them. The keep our society inline, with out a goverment we would be all alone, even tribes have a form of goverment and military.

ETA: NO is a perfect example with out goverment is has become north africa, even worst than the middle east/

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I disagree that we are TOTALLY responsible for ourselfs in a state of SHTF.  Military is needed. And is being deployed. You see the problem here lays in the "genie back in the bottle" scenario. Once out he never wants back into the bottle. OK I for one want the good guys to come and kill the gang members if they come here in the thousands.  I am an ammo whore like everyone else but one person vs thousands is a slaughter.

If they are in the open OH yea it's over .

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I disagree that we are TOTALLY responsible for ourselfs in a state of SHTF.  Military is needed. And is being deployed. You see the problem here lays in the "genie back in the bottle" scenario. Once out he never wants back into the bottle. OK I for one want the good guys to come and kill the gang members if they come here in the thousands.  I am an ammo whore like everyone else but one person vs thousands is a slaughter.

One person vs 10 armed people can be a slaughter as well. You have one head while they have 10