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Posted: 8/29/2005 12:55:34 PM EDT
[#1]
MiG-33 is a develpopment of the MiG-29. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 1:39:07 PM EDT
[#2]
I see you didn't bother to ask the USAF and Navy guys who went up against the former East German Air Force MiG-29's what they think of the MiG-29.
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Posted: 8/29/2005 1:44:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Well, what do they think? I take it you knew a few. And for the record, I never said they were poor designs. I said Russian planes were poorly executed, in terms of manufacturing quality, quality of crews, and availability of spare parts. Even the USSR Airforce was in shitty condition, and the western strategists only recently decided that the Soviet war machine was overestimated. Read the book by the Fulcrum pilot that landed in Turkey, see what he has to say. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 1:50:18 PM EDT
[#4]
I've read the reports…… FORTUNATELY we did not go up against the Red Machine during the latter days of the Cold War… our pilots would have had a very nasty shock. The Luftwaffe was VERY happy to keep it's MIG-29's… Negatives "The employment of the MiG-29 suffers from severe inherent constraints. The most obvious limitation is the aircraft’s limited internal fuel capacity of 3500-kg (4400 kg with a centreline tank). We have no air-to-air refuelling capability, and our external tank is both speed and manoeuvre limited. We also have only a limited number of tanks. "But if we start a mission with 4400-kg of fuel, start-up, taxy and take off takes 400-kg, we need to allow 1000-kg for diversion to an alternate airfield 50-nm away, and 500-kg for the engagement, including one minute in afterburner. That leaves 2500-kg. If we need 15 minutes on station at 420 kts that requires another 1000-kg, leaving 1500-kg for transit. At FL200 (20,000 ft) that gives us a radius of 150-nm, and at FL100 (10,000 ft) we have a radius of only 100-nm. "Our navigation system is unreliable without TACAN updates and is not very accurate (I’d prefer to call it an estimation system). It relies on triangulation from three TACAN stations, and if you lose one, you effectively lose the system. We can only enter three fixed waypoints, which is inadequate. We also can’t display our ‘Bullseye’ (known navigation datum, selected randomly for security). For communications we have only one VHF/UHF radio. "The radar is at least a generation behind the AN/APG-65, and is not line-repairable. If we have a radar problem, the aircraft goes back into the hangar. The radar has a poor display, giving poor situational awareness, and this is compounded by the cockpit ergonomics. The radar has reliability problems and lookdown/shootdown problems. There is poor discrimination between targets flying in formation, and we can’t lock onto the target in trail, only onto the lead. We have only the most limited autonomous operating capability. "We don’t have the range to conduct HVAA attack missions - and we’re effectively limited from crossing the FLOT (Front Line of Own Troops). Our limited station time and lack of air-to-air refuelling capability effectively rules us out of meaningful air defence missions. Nor are we suited to the sweep escort role. We have a very limited range, especially at high speed and low altitudes, and are limited to 540-kt with external fuel. We have navigation problems, Bullseye control is very difficult and we have only one radio. So if I talk, I ‘trash’ the package’s radios! "The only possible missions for NATO’s MiG-29s are as adversary threat aircraft for air combat training, for point defence, and as wing (not lead!) in Mixed Fighter Force Operations. But even then I would still consider the onboard systems too limited, especially the radar, the radar warning receiver, and the navigation system as well as the lack of fuel. These drive the problems we face in tactical scenarios. We suffer from poor presentation of the radar information (which leads to poor situational awareness and identification problems), short BVR weapons range, a bad navigation system and short on- station times." Positives "But when all that is said and done, the MiG-29 is a superb fighter for close-in combat, even compared with aircraft like the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18. This is due to the aircraft’s superb aerodynamics and helmet mounted sight. Inside ten nautical miles I’m hard to defeat, and with the IRST, helmet sight and ‘Archer’ I can’t be beaten. Period. Even against the latest Block 50 F-16s the MiG-29 is virtually invulnerable in the close-in scenario. On one occasion I remember the F-16s did score some kills eventually, but only after taking 18 ‘Archers’. We didn’t operate kill removal (forcing ‘killed’ aircraft to leave the fight) since they’d have got no training value, we killed them too quickly. (Just as we might seldom have got close-in if they used their AMRAAMs BVR!) They couldn’t believe it at the debrief, they got up and left the room! "They might not like it, but with a 28deg/sec instantaneous turn rate (compared to the Block 50 F-16's 26deg) we can out-turn them. Our stable, manually controlled airplane can out-turn their FBW aircraft. But the real edge we have is the ‘Archer’ which can reliably lock on to targets 45deg off-boresight. "I should stress that I’m talking about our Luftwaffe MiG-29s, which are early aircraft. They also removed the Laszlo data link and the SRO IFF before the aircraft were handed over to us, so in some respects we’re less capable than other contemporary MiG-29s. From what we hear the latest variants are almost a different aircraft. I’d like to see our aircraft get some of the updates being offered by MiG-MAPO. The more powerful engines, better radar, a new navigation system, a data link and an inflight refuelling probe. If we got the new ‘Alamo-C’ that would also be an improvement - even a two nautical mile boost in range is still ten more seconds to shoot someone else! We won’t get many of those improvements, though we are getting a new IFF manually selectable radio channels, and improvements to the navigation system, including the integration of GPS. Most of our aircraft will be able to carry two underwing fuel tanks, which will also help." from Jane's At the Controls: MiG-29, by Jon Lake |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 1:57:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Only if it's true. 
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Posted: 8/29/2005 2:23:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Exactly… the last time the USAF went up agianst 1st division Pilots flying 1st Division aircraft was in the Korean War when Russian Pilots were flying against them… look up the kills the Russians scored. Contrary to popular belief the arrival of the Sabre did not win the iar war against the North Koreans, a lot of it was down to the Russian pilots who WERE very good, going home after Stalin died. The RUSSIAN pilots flying MIG15's in the Korean War had a 2:1 kill ratio… http://www.acepilots.com/russian/rus_aces.html ANdy |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 2:59:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Those weren't the average Russian pilot, they were the best they had. And of course they had quality pilots in the early 50's, they still had WWII vets flying and training these guys. That has nothing to do with their ability or LACK of ability to field an effective modern Air Force; much less the abilities of their second rate allies. Whoopee, the Russians have a few demo Mig 35s... let's see the production model. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 4:02:54 PM EDT
[#8]
And the USAF/USMC/RAF pilots in Korea were the best we had… |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 4:59:15 PM EDT
[#9]
The Russian pilots were only a handful flying with the North Koreans, handpicked from the Soviet airforce and hardly representative of the average Soviet pilot. Our pilots were not handpicked from among other pilots, it is not a fair comparison. |
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