Kahr PM9.

And you might change your mind about ankle holsters if you try a GOOD one (I use an Alessi and am very happy).

Hammerless J Frame

KelTec P3AT .380

CorBon is now coming out with a .380 loading of their DPX line of bullets. It uses the Barnes X bullet for deep penetration and it's "petals" expand very nicely.

The Kel tec .32 and .380 has an awesome rep.  It is the gun to carry when you literally just want to slide a gun in a pocket.

I have a Kahr MK40.  It is more compact than the Glock 26 27 but is heavy.  It is pretty snappy when shooting hot loads.  I broke it in with Rem 165's and carry gold dots.  Mine was less reliable with 180s (too long).  Definitly some slide velocity.  If I had it to do over I would get the plastic PMK9.    It is significantly lighter.   Kahr customer service was very good.  They remedied a problem with mismatched parts (they had mixed older series guide spring rod with new style gun)
They have super smooth but long trigger pulls.  Mine shoots quite accurately.  (I know less important in a parking lot at 2am when less then 7 feet away from BG)

Quoted: Kahr PM9. And you might change your mind about ankle holsters if you try a GOOD one (I use an Alessi and am very happy).

+1 Here.
I have a Keltec .380 for when it's impossible to carry anything else, and a Kahr PM9 when I can't wear a jacket.

I use a pocket holster by Hedley Holsters and when wearing jeans or dress slacks, a FIST Kydex IWB.

My two pocket guns.

The easiest to conceal in a pocket is the Smith 442. When used with 135 grain +P Gold Dot ammo from Speer it is an extremely effective little revolver. A good pocket holster from one of the better makers (Sparks, Aker, Galco) are worth the money. I, however, use a dirt cheap holster that is also very effective, the Desantis Nemesis:



Works pretty good.

The advantage to the S&W 442 is that it also makes a SUPERB BUG when carrying more serious hardware.

The G26 has its advantages too. It is much bulkier and more difficult to conceal in a pocket holster, but when wearing an untucked shirt and pants with generous pockets (like Royal Robbins) you can get away with it.

Overall, the 442 is the better pocket gun. You CAN shoot it accurately, and thanks to modern loads it DOES have superb ballistics, and it is as reliable a handgun as you will ever find. I wouldn't trade mine for anything. Quite possibly one of the most practical firearms EVER.

Just make sure you practice with it enough to make hits consistently.

Walther PPk.........an older Walther PPk in .380.

Or a Black Widow revolver.

I like my Beretta Bobcat.  Its totally reliable and surprisingly accurate.




I paid $200.00 for it.

Shok

beretta tomcats are pretty small and have a way better trigger than the kel-tecs

Quoted: I'll be wearing khakis mostly, I'm thinking the keltec would be nice.

The Kel-Tec is hard to beat in terms of size and price. If you go this route, be sure to put at least 200 down the pipe to check function--thaey can be cranky and require tweaking out of the box.

The PM9 is worth a look too. Not quite as small, but 9mm and still quite pocketable.

I carry a Smith titanium 642, hammerles. It's great for IWB carry or a cargo pocket perhaps, but pretty uncomfortable in a regular jeans pocket IMHO.

Quoted: Quoted: A .38 needs a big pocket! I normally use a NAA .22 magnum for a pocket gun. It's small enough to not print too badly when worn in a special wallet holster. Are you not aware that wallet holsters are illegal?

Says who?

I've carried a pocket-gun every day for over 20 years.  I've owned/tried/carried most of the mainstream pocket-guns made over the years and changed as I found better ones.

Today I carry a Kel-Tec P3AT every day - any type of pants, no problems.*  IMHO there is no better balance of size/weight vs. power available in a pocket gun today (and the price is very reasonable).  I have had both of the little Kel-Tecs (.32 and then the .380) and had no problems out of either once they were properly broken in.  YMMV.


* I highly recommend a quality pocket-holster, even with the Kel-Tec's light weight and thin profile.  Personally, I use a Hedley pocket-holster and love it - but there are plenty of good ones out there.

Some folks don't like them, but I like my Walther PPK/S for pocket use.  

Quoted: beretta tomcat's are pretty small and have a way better trigger than the kel-tecs...

Yours must be much better than mine was - the trigger was the main reason I got rid of my 3032 "Tomcat" (and I had happily carried Beretta pocket-guns for years before trying the Tomact - first a 950 "Jetfire" and later a 21 "Bobcat").

Quoted: Some folks don't like them, but I like my Walther PPK/S for pocket use.

Why carry a .380 when you can have a 9mm in an even smaller, lighter package? Kahr PM9.

I carry a Kahr PM9 in my front pocket to work, with this holster:

www.kdholsters.com/pd.shtml

It is not invisible, but it looks like a PDA or a big wallet.

I've carried the following as pocket guns.

1. S&W model 60 -Very good though these days I would go with one of their light bobbed/hammerless models.
2. NAAs mini revolver- Very difficult to draw cock and fire and hit anything under stress. It gets lost in a pocket (It is worthless as a defnsive weapon as far as I am concerned)
3. Charter Arms Bulldog 2.5" 44 spl. with bobbed hammer.-More bang, less filling.
4. Kel-Tec P32- Easy to carry and shoot. Gets lost in my pocket and is a pipsqueak as a defense round.
5. Kel-Tec P11-9mm and easy to carry. Lighter and flatter than a revolver.
6. Can't remember the name of it but it was a  well made double action hammerless stainless deringer in 38 spl. I had it back in the early 1980s. It looked like a larger version of the old High STandard 22 mag deringer. It was pretty heavy and kicked like a mule.

My choice would be #1 or #5 above.

Quoted: ... 6. Can't remember the name of it but it was a  well made double action hammerless stainless deringer in 38 spl. I had it back in the early 1980s. It looked like a larger version of the old High STandard 22 mag deringer. It was pretty heavy and kicked like a mule. ...

I had one of those, too - made by "BJT," whoever that was.

Tag

I have carried several different pocket guns over the years including the SW 442, Berreta 950BS, Beretta 21A, Glock 26, and NAA mini revolver.

Of those, the Glock 26 was too large, chuncky.  The M21A is not reliable enough IME and has a very promenant grip making it hard to draw fast from the pocket. The NAA mini revolver is nearly worthless being impossible to hit with and anemic.  

the 950BS is an anemic caliber, and single action,  but surprisingly accurate and totally reliabvle and very easy to carry in a pocket.

Of all the pocket guns I have tried the 442 is the best balance of size, reliability, accuracy and power. My personal 442 is as accurate as many 6" revolvers.

Quoted: H&K P7 But expensive as well. (is it small enough?)

Probably depends what he wears. It's too big for tight blue jeans. I can carry mine in the pocket of my Dickies just fine, and it doesn't print.

I was going to reccomend that as well. I also like the Beretta 950 alright for a pocket gun.

Best Pocket Gun there is bar none. Just drop it in your pants/shorts pocket and forget about it. 12 ounces and can shoot .357 mag or .38 +P. If you can find a used 342PD, that's the way to go (out of production-.38+P and 10.8 ounces). I have the 342PD and carry it in my pants pocket w/o any holster no matter how I dress. It's absolutely unnoticeable, bascially the same as carrying a small cell phone in your pocket.


Specifications S&W 340PD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SKU: 163061
Caliber: .357 Magnum®/.38 S&W Special +P
Capacity: 5 Rounds
Barrel Length: 1-7/8"
Front Sight: Red Ramp
Rear Sight: Fixed Notch
Firing System: N/A
Grip: Hogue Bantam
Trigger: .312" Smooth Target
Hammer: Internal
External Safety: N/A
Frame: Small - J Frame Rd
Finish: Black/ Grey
Overall length: 6-5/16"
Material: Scandium Alloy Frame, Barrel Shroud and Yoke, Titanium Cylinder, Stainless steel barrel liner
Weight Empty: 12 ounces

I would go with the Kahr PM9/PM40 or a Smith J frame.

I wouldn't even stop to piss on a Kel-Tec. I've owned two and they were both duds (should have stopped with the first, but I mistakenly thought they fixed their problems). If you go to the Kel-Tec forum linked off their website, you'll see so many posts of Kel-Tecs sent back to the factory 2 or 3 times.

Hammerless Colt 1903's, Colt 1908's, and S&W J-Frames.  A Beretta 1934 is also excellent.

Quoted: Best Pocket Gun there is bar none. Just drop it in your pants/shorts pocket and forget about it. 12 ounces and can shoot .357 mag or .38 +P. If you can find a used 342PD, that's the way to go (out of production-.38+P and 10.8 ounces). I have the 342PD and carry it in my pants pocket w/o any holster no matter how I dress. It's absolutely unnoticeable, bascially the same as carrying a small cell phone in your pocket. Specifications S&W 340PD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SKU: 163061 Caliber: .357 Magnum®/.38 S&W Special +P Capacity: 5 Rounds Barrel Length: 1-7/8" Front Sight: Red Ramp Rear Sight: Fixed Notch Firing System: N/A Grip: Hogue Bantam Trigger: .312" Smooth Target Hammer: Internal External Safety: N/A Frame: Small - J Frame Rd Finish: Black/ Grey Overall length: 6-5/16" Material: Scandium Alloy Frame, Barrel Shroud and Yoke, Titanium Cylinder, Stainless steel barrel liner Weight Empty: 12 ounces www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/userimages/163061_large.jpg

The 342PD is a very nice revolver, but for the money I think the 642 and 442 are more practical.  They're only a couple of ounces heavier, and they are more than $200 cheaper than the 342PD.

Quoted: The 342PD is a very nice revolver, but for the money I think the 642 and 442 are more practical.  They're only a couple of ounces heavier, and they are more than $200 cheaper than the 342PD.

Full power 357 loads in a package that small are not pleasant to shoot.

The 442 is shootable, but hardly fun and it is just a 38 special.

Not quite a pocket gun, but a G26 9mm Glock rocks.

M4-AK

Quoted: I'll be wearing khakis mostly, I'm thinking the keltec would be nice.

I wear dockers everyday.  The keltec is nice, and always on me.  I do however understand the limitations of the thing.  I will be upgrading to the karh pm9 or the .38 soon.  

But, again, the keltec is always with me, so I know it's comfortable enough.

Get the .380 it will do better if necessary than the .32  I bought the .32 before the .380 was made.

Having had it for years now, I have not had a single problem after break-in and fluff and buff.  Almost everytime I go to the range, I pull it straight from my pocket and empty the mag.  Never a problem.

TXL

Quoted: Quoted: I'll be wearing khakis mostly, I'm thinking the keltec would be nice. I wear dockers everyday.  The keltec is nice, and always on me.  I do however understand the limitations of the thing.  I will be upgrading to the karh pm9 or the .38 soon.   But, again, the keltec is always with me, so I know it's comfortable enough. Get the .380 it will do better if necessary than the .32  I bought the .32 before the .380 was made. Having had it for years now, I have not had a single problem after break-in and fluff and buff.  Almost everytime I go to the range, I pull it straight from my pocket and empty the mag.  Never a problem. TXL

I'm looking for the .380 right now.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll be wearing khakis mostly, I'm thinking the keltec would be nice. I wear dockers everyday.  The keltec is nice, and always on me.  I do however understand the limitations of the thing.  I will be upgrading to the karh pm9 or the .38 soon.   But, again, the keltec is always with me, so I know it's comfortable enough. Get the .380 it will do better if necessary than the .32  I bought the .32 before the .380 was made. Having had it for years now, I have not had a single problem after break-in and fluff and buff.  Almost everytime I go to the range, I pull it straight from my pocket and empty the mag.  Never a problem. TXL I'm looking for the .380 right now.

I don't think you'll go worng with that.  The best advantage of the keltec, is you can and most likely will, carry it everywhere.  That may not be the case when carrying something bigger.

Good luck.

TXL

It's going to be pretty damn scary using a .32 or a .380 to defend yourself and maybe your family while being confronted by a druggy, or two or 3 young creeps looking to rob you and/or stab or  beat your ass.

BUY A KAHR IN 9MM OR .40 and LOAD IT WITH CORBONS. IT'S THE SAME DIMENSIONAL SIZE AS THE P.O.S  PPKS I USE TO CARRY.

What good is a 380 if you plug the guy, he gets really pissed and proceeds to stab or shoot you to death. Ok, so maybe he dies down the street 20 minutes later..... but not until after he already killed your ass first!

If you are like me, you will end up not carrying BULKY GUNS THAT REQUIRE A HOLSTER. What good is a 357 snub nose revolver if you don't carry it because you know that every time you sit down at a table, you get it jabbing you in the ribs?  So....I simply carry my MK9 in my waste band using a home made cloth poutch with a large paper clip to keep the gun it from slipping down into my pants. There's also no sence in wearing your shirt out over your pistol..... that you can't get to fast. I keep my shirt tucked neatly into my pants, but simply have an excess 3" or so  of my shirt tail pulled out enough over the grip to hide it.  I go EVERYWHERE this way, and have fast access to it.

(No, you don't pull out your shirt tail over it....you pull out 3" or so of extra shirt tail fabric over it, so the fabric bunch drapes over the grip and hides it. You also don't have your gun against your sweaty belly in this manner.)

Quoted: If you are like me, you will end up not carrying BULKY GUNS THAT REQUIRE A HOLSTER.

All my guns ride in a holster. Comfortably. And securely. Holsters aren't just for holding the weapon. They are also for making sure that the weapon is right where it is supposed to be when needed.

Paperclips don't quite get the job done.

John Wayne,

Hmmm.....so you don't like my polyester fabric poutch with a small wire clip that holds my Kahr MK9 firmly behind my belt and prevents it from slipping down?

Just to keep all things equal, I'd like to hear what kind of defense gun you carry concealed on your person, and where on your anatomy you carry it while using a holster. (For this discussion, fanny packs don't count as a holster either.)

To compare oranges with oranges, this example you give should compare with a typical carry session in Houston TX for me.  I maintain that you ought to be able to carry your weapon concealed on you virtually undisturbed for a typical family outing like I readilly do, and which can last for at least a 4 hour period or more. This includes you are driving to your destination for a half hour, then walking around and shopping with your wife or kids for 2 hours, and then finally dining at a restaurant, sitting at a table for an hour before you head back home. Let's assume you will not be wearing a jacket either. (... as many of us live in areas of the country where you don't where a jacket  when it's 70 degrees in November.  Because your wife and kids, don't care to know you're packing, you don't ever take the gun off of you either.

If like me, you are carrying nothing smaller then a 9mm pistol, AND WEAR NOTHING HEAVIER THEN A KNIT COTTON SHIRT TO CONCEAL IT (like what I typcally wear), you then ought to be dreading a very uncomfortable 4 hours!  

 BTW,
Did you ever see after market .38 grips that have a smooth built-on-clip to hold the revolver to your waste band? Or how about the guys that have folding knives held in place with a clip?   If  the back pocket  of your Levi's holds your fat wallet in place all year round without your credit cards pouring out of your pants leg, then trust me when I say the same concept works with a MK9 clipped to your pants waste band.  Using my polyester fabric poutch holster, I'd be willing to bet I can quickly and reliably place a new second asshole between the eyes of the next guy that threatens my wife or kids with bodilly harm.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A .38 needs a big pocket! I normally use a NAA .22 magnum for a pocket gun. It's small enough to not print too badly when worn in a special wallet holster. Are you not aware that wallet holsters are illegal? And CCW without a permit isn't? The holster that I have isn't illegal for whatever reason. I have seen ones that were and ones that weren't and didn't much see the difference in them nor the reason to care quite frankly. Mine attaches a small snap pouch under the barrel that holds another 5 rounds of .22 winnie mag under making the appearance of the weapon more square like a wallet. I think that the "illegal" ones allow you to shoot the weapon in the holster.

A lot of folks confuse wallet holster and pocket holster.
Those that look like a wallet and allow the gun to be fired without removing it first are illegal in the
sense they come under any other weapon status.  You typically don't find them for sale at your
local gun store because of the bureaucracy involved in their legal use.
Can you own one? Probably, if you want to do the BATFE dance; most folks don't, therefore they
can't legally carry them.

The folks who have posted here and challenged that are either uninformed or are splitting  hairs over
the definition of illegal.

tag for future reference

Pocket gun is a Beretta Tomcat in .32.
CCW gun is a Glock 23 with 14 rounds + a spare 15 round mag.

tag

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A .38 needs a big pocket! I normally use a NAA .22 magnum for a pocket gun. It's small enough to not print too badly when worn in a special wallet holster. Are you not aware that wallet holsters are illegal? And CCW without a permit isn't? The holster that I have isn't illegal for whatever reason. I have seen ones that were and ones that weren't and didn't much see the difference in them nor the reason to care quite frankly. Mine attaches a small snap pouch under the barrel that holds another 5 rounds of .22 winnie mag under making the appearance of the weapon more square like a wallet. I think that the "illegal" ones allow you to shoot the weapon in the holster.

Last I saw on the laws, the last sentence seems to be correct.  You can possess a wallet holster (used to have one for a Seecamp, but both went on to a new home), and I  *believe* you can carry it that way, but not shoot it from the wallet   The carrying part is a gray area, it would seem.  I suspect it may come down to a similar situation as with pistol shoulder stocks:  you can have them , but just don't put them together.


As far a as the premise of the thread is concerned, I just got a great new toy:  Colt Pocket 9.  Smaller than the Kel-Tec P-11, slimmer (though because of a single stack magazine - reduced capacity to 6 from 10), and better made, which is the most important point.  I still have Kel-Tec in 9 and .40, though.  Nice, as has been pointed out by earlier posters.  But, my new carry piece is the Pocket 9.

For amusement, on the idea of pocket pistol, with loose enough pants, I have carried a 629 with a 3" barrel in my pocket (has to be a deep one).

Quoted: John Wayne, Hmmm.....so you don't like my polyester fabric poutch with a small wire clip that holds my Kahr MK9 firmly behind my belt and prevents it from slipping down? Just to keep all things equal, I'd like to hear what kind of defense gun you carry concealed on your person, and where on your anatomy you carry it while using a holster. (For this discussion, fanny packs don't count as a holster either.)

A full sized 1911 in a Blade Tech canted IWB holster on the strong side, and a Smith 442 as a backup in a Desantis Nemesis pocket holster, in addition to a Cold Steel folder. Wearing Royal Robbins pants and a black T-shirt.

That's it.

I wear that getup all day. Even when driving long distances.

To compare oranges with oranges, this example you give should compare with a typical carry session in Houston TX for me.  I maintain that you ought to be able to carry your weapon concealed on you virtually undisturbed for a typical family outing like I readilly do, and which can last for at least a 4 hour period or more. This includes you are driving to your destination for a half hour, then walking around and shopping with your wife or kids for 2 hours, and then finally dining at a restaurant, sitting at a table for an hour before you head back home. Let's assume you will not be wearing a jacket either. (... as many of us live in areas of the country where you don't where a jacket  when it's 70 degrees in November.  Because your wife and kids, don't care to know you're packing, you don't ever take the gun off of you either.

I put on the guns when I get dressed.

I take them off when I get ready to go to bed.

If like me, you are carrying nothing smaller then a 9mm pistol, AND WEAR NOTHING HEAVIER THEN A KNIT COTTON SHIRT TO CONCEAL IT (like what I typcally wear), you then ought to be dreading a very uncomfortable 4 hours!

Not really. The Blade Tech IWB holster is the most comfortable IWB holster I have ever used. When you dress properly, you can wear one all day without problem.

BTW, Did you ever see after market .38 grips that have a smooth built-on-clip to hold the revolver to your waste band?

Yes. Not secure enough.

Or how about the guys that have folding knives held in place with a clip?

Knives are a lot lighter than guns and not as likely to move. Besides which, the spring steel clip on most knives is a heck of a lot better than a paperclip....

If  the back pocket  of your Levi's holds your fat wallet in place all year round without your credit cards pouring out of your pants leg, then trust me when I say the same concept works with a MK9 clipped to your pants waste band.  Using my polyester fabric poutch holster, I'd be willing to bet I can quickly and reliably place a new second asshole between the eyes of the next guy that threatens my wife or kids with bodilly harm.

I hope you can.

But home-made holsters held on by paper clips is NOT a good option. There are hundreds of holster makers and clothing makers out there, and I guarantee you that with time and effort you can find a comfortable way to pack a mid-sized or full sized pistol AND your little Kahr both in holsters, both secure, both quick to access, and wearing casual clothing in a casual manner.

Trust me on this. I have been packing pistols for a long time in everything from jeans and a t-shirt to formal wear. I always have the ability to carry a properly holstered weapon, and usually 2 properly holstered weapons. I have packed 2 or more pistols right in front of police officers and even veteran firearms trainers who were completely unaware that I was armed.

At Blackwater, for instance, my instructor was teaching failure drills. When it came time for my turn, I responded to the failure drill by producing my Smith 442 from the front pocket of my Levi's jeans and popping the target for the required ammount of shots.

"Well..." he said "That sure beats the way I was teaching you..."

He had no idea I had that revolver. And he was a SF veteran and a veteran street cop.

I have taught several LE officers how to comfortably conceal their duty piece and a BUG when off duty. They had to adjust how they dressed slightly, but in the end they thanked me.

It CAN be done. It took me about 2 weeks of wearing an IWB holster every waking moment to get used to the feeling. It wasn't "comfortable" at first. It is now. If you commit to doing it, you can learn to pack a full sized piece in an actual holster that will do a proper holster's job.

I know one officer who mexican carried and regreted it. He was in a stop and rob when someone stopped and robbed it. When they came to try and rob him, they recognized him as a cop. In the ensuing struggle (the bad guy had a knife) they both hit the ground together. The Sig P225 he was mexican carrying flew out of his waistband and skidded across the floor.

Holsters were invented for a reason.

That officer, by the way, now only carries in proper holsters with tension adjustments as tight as he can get them.

Quoted: Keltech .32 It's the size of a wallet, easily carried in a pocket. They have a version in .380 but they sell so fast they're never in the store.

+1  Gold Dots and MagSafe  

Quoted: I'm going to need a small handgun that will have to be carried in my pants pocket. I can't do an iwb holster. I really don't want to do ankle holster either. So what's small and safe, but not a derringer?

Beretta 21a in .22 lr with HOT loads.


Been carrying one for 12 years.

GR

Quoted: ... .22 lr with HOT loads...

That's one of those "contradictions in terms".

I have both the Keltec P32 and NAA Mini Revolver for times when I'm not carrying a gun.

The NAA Mini is better than no gun, but I think I'd draw my knife before I used the Mini as a weapon.  The Mini is good for the same purpose of the Liberator pistol - you can use it to shoot a German soldier in the back and steal his weapons.  I'd hate to have to pray the bullet from the Mini hit its target.  It's a gun and makes a bang, so if you're firing in the direction of the threat and hoping to scare him away, it's perfect.  Otherwise, I'd recommend this not be considered seriously.

My wife and I both have P32's.  Hers shoots to the left a bit, but groups decently and feeds reliably.  Mine is right on and I have no problem getting 4" groups at 25'.  Any further than that, I'm calling it a headstart and running.  It's not the ideal gun for a firefight, but it's good enough if I need to fire at close range.  The extended 10 round magazine makes it less pocketable, but easier to control for me since I have big hands.

Kel Tek , you chose the model . I've owned one K-11 for only a couple months but wow what a pistol . I got it used and slightly abused , AND had reservations but a 9mm for 149 ! I checked here everyone said "yea they are good " so I bought it . 5 differant brands ammo 250 Rds in one quick sitting . I mixed ammo and whatnot and gave it a good shooting one true failure on ONE wolf prime other than that 100% . I like it . My first plastic gun ....since I was 13 .  RL

Quoted: I can't believe I could be the first to suggest this... Chose one of the dozen or so Colt or S&W Snub .38's, in an Uncle Mikes pocket holster.  642 works well for me. DanM

+1

Just get a hammerless type or get the hammer de-horned. Slips in and out of your pocket like buttah. I like the Colt Cobras in six shot, aluminum frame.

Even a SIG 239 will disappear in Khakis front pockets.

It is a wee heavy, I'm afraid.