Quoted: Look, guys - I've been a Title II dealer for more than 2 decades, and I've seen all this before.  And it also means that I see it from a different perspective than the rest of you.  For instance, there's James Lalime.  Many of you seem to see him as some sort of victim or freedom fighter.  I see him as a criminal who fucks things up for dealers like me and other individuals.  He's one of those guys who buys a bunch of guns on 4473s from the dealer he works for then sets up a table at several gun shows and resells them as a "private party" to people who want to avoid the background check (possibly due to criminal records).  It's assholes like this that makes my life difficult.  (BTW - the dealer he works for can expect a very thorough compliance inspection in the near future.)

And you can prove all of this?

I would suppose that someone as emminently reasonable as you would have verifiable and documentable proof before you accuse a citizen of being an illegal gun dealer. If you have such specific information, I suggest you call the BATFE. If not, I suggest you quit slandering someone you don't know.

I am glad to know you are a dealer.

If I ever go to a show or a store and see the haircut from your DL, I will make certain to find another place to go.

I wouldn't dream of doing buisness with you. Ever.

Further, I would hope other Virginia Christians would find some other person to do buisness with. We certainly wouldn't want to burden you with our irrational disease.

Quoted: home.earthlink.net/~tclokey/AR15com/vadl.jpg Look, guys - I've been a Title II dealer for more than 2 decades, and I've seen all this before.  And it also means that I see it from a different perspective than the rest of you.

Title II dealer huh?

Interesting....

Quoted: Quoted: home.earthlink.net/~tclokey/AR15com/vadl.jpg Look, guys - I've been a Title II dealer for more than 2 decades, and I've seen all this before.  And it also means that I see it from a different perspective than the rest of you. Title II dealer huh? Interesting....

I wish he would tell us the name of his buisness.

Because I would love to pass that information along to the VCDL, as well as his comments on this situation.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: home.earthlink.net/~tclokey/AR15com/vadl.jpg Look, guys - I've been a Title II dealer for more than 2 decades, and I've seen all this before.  And it also means that I see it from a different perspective than the rest of you. Title II dealer huh? Interesting.... I wish he would tell us the name of his buisness. Because I would love to pass that information along to the VCDL, as well as his comments on this situation.

He's also the guy who claimed to have shot a dog with his Red Ryder BB gun......

I'm pretty sure Manassas has some ordinances against that sort of thing.

Quoted: Title II dealer huh? Interesting....

Yeah, come see me at the Creek in Oct.  I'll be out on the line.

Quoted: I wish he would tell us the name of his buisness. Because I would love to pass that information along to the VCDL, as well as his comments on this situation.

Sorry, but I don't do business with smallfry like you.  And is that supposed to be some type of a threat?  "I don't like you so I'm going to tell the VCDL on you!!  Nyah!!"

Quoted: He's also the guy who claimed to have shot a dog with his Red Ryder BB gun...... I'm pretty sure Manassas has some ordinances against that sort of thing.

Then I guess you better call the Prince William County Sheriff on my ass.  

Quoted: Because I am a Christian, obviously I am incapable of rational thought.

I'm glad to see we agree on something.  

Lalime is a VCDL member. He is not, and was not, breaking any laws. I would suppose that someone as emminently reasonable as you would have verifiable and documentable proof before you accuse a citizen of being an illegal gun dealer. If you have such specific information, I suggest you call the BATFE. If not, I suggest you quit slandering someone you don't know.

No slander here - I took my observations from Lalime's own words.  And apparently the ATFE (no "B," ask any agent) is already aware of Lalime.  He's obviously come to their attention due the the volume of guns he sells at gun shows.  Now maybe he is totally innocent and merely selling guns from his own collection.  But when you have someone who sells guns at several gun shows in a short time period and also happens to work for an FFL, it looks bad.  I've known too many dealers over the years who sell guns to an employee and then that employee sells his "personal guns" cash and carry at gun shows.  Like I said, it looks bad.

www.showmasters.us/index.html

You post this as proof?  First of all, the State Troopers are there for the background checks.  They're at every gun show in Virginia.  And the gun show promoter said she hired the Richmond PD for security.  "50 police vehicles?"  I count maybe a dozen.  "72  Police officers?"  Again, I count maybe a dozen in the picture.  "Obviously public attendance was diminished greatly."  You think people pulled up in the parking lot, saw a police car, then turned and fled?  Well, maybe if they're criminals.  But it wouldn't bother me.  Maybe it is a good idea to scare criminals and felons away from a gun show, ya think?

If I ever go to a show or a store and see the haircut from your DL, I will make certain to find another place to go. I wouldn't dream of doing buisness with you. Ever.

First, it's an old picture, and I don't have Eddie Rabbit hair any more.  Second, you don't have the funds to do business with me and I certainly wouldn't waste my time on a little pissant civilian like you.  So have no fears, we'll never have any dealings together.

Further, I would hope other Virginia Christians would find some other person to do buisness with. We certainly wouldn't want to burden you with our irrational disease.

Thank god!!

Time for the troll alert.

Bomber

Quoted: Sorry, but I don't do business with smallfry like you.  And is that supposed to be some type of a threat?  "I don't like you so I'm going to tell the VCDL on you!!  Nyah!!"

I think that since you have such a low opinion of the VCDL and Christians, that such folks ought to take that into consideration when doing buisness with you in any capacity, or when considering it.

Either nut up or shut up.

Quoted: Quoted: Title II dealer huh? Interesting.... Yeah, come see me at the Creek in Oct.  I'll be out on the line.

Gosh, I'm very impressed.....

I'd rather not associate with you, if I can help it.  Apparently, you are ashamed enough of your words and actions, to hide your identity.

Since I know what my two Title II dealers look like, and know neither lives in Manasshole, I'll rest easy in my future transactions.

Again, I'm sorry we share the same state.

Quoted: Manasshole

Why do I find that term so funny?

Quoted: Yeah, come see me at on the Creek in Oct knob.  I'll be out on at the end of the line. Fixed it for you Sorry, but I don't do business with smallfry like you.  And is that supposed to be some type of a threat?  "

If that's the case then why don't you tell us who you are? If you had any balls like you claim you would.

I'm pretty sure I know who you are anyway.

Bomber

Quoted: Sorry, but I don't do business with smallfry like you.  And is that supposed to be some type of a threat?  "I don't like you so I'm going to tell the VCDL on you!!  Nyah!!"

Given his locaton, and the above quote, I will bet he gets all his money from .gov folks..... like the ATF.

Unless he is man enough to say who he is we won't know, of course, but that would explain the ATF bootlicking.

It's going to come down to this again...if things don't change.

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776. The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world. He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good. He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them. He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only. He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures. He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people. He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within. He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands. He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers. He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries. He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance. He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures. He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power. He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation: For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us: For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States: For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world: For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent: For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury: For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies: For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments: For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever. He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us. He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people. He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation. He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands. He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions. In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people. Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends. We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The 56 signatures on the Declaration appear in the positions indicated: Column 1 Georgia:   Button Gwinnett   Lyman Hall   George Walton Column 2 North Carolina:   William Hooper   Joseph Hewes   John Penn South Carolina:   Edward Rutledge   Thomas Heyward, Jr.   Thomas Lynch, Jr.   Arthur Middleton Column 3 Massachusetts: John Hancock Maryland: Samuel Chase William Paca Thomas Stone Charles Carroll of Carrollton Virginia: George Wythe Richard Henry Lee Thomas Jefferson Benjamin Harrison Thomas Nelson, Jr. Francis Lightfoot Lee Carter Braxton Column 4 Pennsylvania:   Robert Morris   Benjamin Rush   Benjamin Franklin   John Morton   George Clymer   James Smith   George Taylor   James Wilson   George Ross Delaware:   Caesar Rodney   George Read   Thomas McKean Column 5 New York:   William Floyd   Philip Livingston   Francis Lewis   Lewis Morris New Jersey:   Richard Stockton   John Witherspoon   Francis Hopkinson   John Hart   Abraham Clark Column 6 New Hampshire:   Josiah Bartlett   William Whipple Massachusetts:   Samuel Adams   John Adams   Robert Treat Paine   Elbridge Gerry Rhode Island:   Stephen Hopkins   William Ellery Connecticut:   Roger Sherman   Samuel Huntington   William Williams   Oliver Wolcott New Hampshire:   Matthew Thornton

ARFCOM: 1

Ubersleuthy ATF Agent: 0

Quoted: Given his locaton, and the above quote, I will bet he gets all his money from .gov folks..... like the ATF. Unless he is man enough to say who he is we won't know, of course, but that would explain the ATF bootlicking.

Geez, you guys are going all out trying to attack me personally.  My business, my hair, the city I live in. But that's fine with me because it shows just how weak your arguments really are.

No, I am not an ATF agent, nor an ATF sympathizer.  But having had to deal with the ATF for many years you learn a thing or two.  In the same way as your CPA is not an "IRS bootlicker" but he knows how to deal with them and what makes them tick.  I'm a realist, living in the real world, dealing with real people, real laws, and real government agencies.  And maybe you don't like some of those laws, but guess what?  Too bad, 'cuz in this business if you don't dot all the "I"s and cross all the "T"s and do everything exactly by the book you can get severly shit-hammered.

And being in the industry, I've also learned a thing or two about gun dealers.  Especially the bottom feeders who are always trying to play fast and loose with the rules.  And I think that's what we have here.  Some guy gets scrutinized by the ATF for straw sales and dealing without a license, so he launches into a campain to get all the tin-foil-hat-types riled up.  Oh, look!!  It's Lexington and Concorde all over again!!  Well here's a tip, guys - shiny side out.

I'm looking for some eye-witness testimony to all these alleged abuses, but there are none.  Instead people start dragging out the same tired old "constitutional" diatribe and claims that it's going to be 1776 all over again.  Yeah, right.  Spare me the jingoistic banalities, and let's stick to the facts.

And you've got no facts.  So suck it up and find some or roll over and admit you have nothing.

tag

For some odd reason, I get the idea that maybe JavaMan has something against James Lalime.

Quoted: These are the assholes who make it difficult for all the other FFLs out there.  And I predict that both James Lalime and the fucktard FFL he works for are both going to be dragged into federal court and spend the next ten years getting ass-pounded in the prison showers.  And deservedly so. Then there's the second story - all this unsubstantiated crap about Richmond Police going to gun show purchaser's homes and asking questions, informing neighbors that someone is buying a gun, etc.  The problem is, I don't see any evidence.  No names, no witnesses, no complaints filed, nobody stepping forward saying "I got home from the gun show and my wife said the police came by and..."  Nothing.  Just Phillip Van Cleave saying "I've had reports..." This is a case of "some guy said that some guy said..."  And now it's "some guy on the internet said that some guy said that some guy said..."  Nothing.  Bullshit.  It didn't happen.  The gun show isn't even in Richmond's jurisdiction, it would have taken unprecidented cooperation between the ATF and local authorities, there's no way this all could've been accomplished in the time frame given, and there are no named witnesses coming forward. While I believe James Lalime's story, because he is a criminal commiting crimes at the gun show and has admitted as much, the other "police interviewing neighbors" story is nothing but pure bullshit.

So you have evidence that James Lalime is a criminal?

Or are you just a transparent hypocrite?

Quoted: Quoted: For some reason I don't see the swarm of naysayers here, like they were in the other thread...... Don't worry, I'm here now.   Quoted: Perhaps now all those calling BS in my thread on this topic will begin to get what is really going on. It seems like the ATF decided to go cowboy at this thing. Doesn't it bother anyone that the BATFE tried to setup a STING operation at a Gunshow, which is a PERFECTLY LEGAL activity protected by the Constitution??? What bothers me about John_Wayne777's thread is we're talking two completely different stories.  Plus he also seems to be confused on the meaning of "PERFECTLY LEGAL."  Violating federal law, whether you agree with them or not, can never be considered "PERFECTLY LEGAL." It looks like there might be some truth to James Lalime getting harrased by the ATF.  In fact, this is a fairly common occurance.  For years ATF has been trolling gun shows looking for unlicensed, "private individuals" who seem to show up at a gun show just about every weekend with a table full of guns to sell.  And most of the time that "private individual" works for an FFL and has a good friend who's a dealer and sells guns to him "personally," and then the "private individual" turns around and sells them at gun shows to anyone with no paperwork.  This is an old scam, highly illegal, and whenever I find other dealers pulling this shit I immediately cut off all business with this moron. These are the assholes who make it difficult for all the other FFLs out there.  And I predict that both James Lalime and the fucktard FFL he works for are both going to be dragged into federal court and spend the next ten years getting ass-pounded in the prison showers.  And deservedly so. Then there's the second story - all this unsubstantiated crap about Richmond Police going to gun show purchaser's homes and asking questions, informing neighbors that someone is buying a gun, etc.  The problem is, I don't see any evidence.  No names, no witnesses, no complaints filed, nobody stepping forward saying "I got home from the gun show and my wife said the police came by and..."  Nothing.  Just Phillip Van Cleave saying "I've had reports..." This is a case of "some guy said that some guy said..."  And now it's "some guy on the internet said that some guy said that some guy said..."  Nothing.  Bullshit.  It didn't happen.  The gun show isn't even in Richmond's jurisdiction, it would have taken unprecidented cooperation between the ATF and local authorities, there's no way this all could've been accomplished in the time frame given, and there are no named witnesses coming forward. While I believe James Lalime's story, because he is a criminal commiting crimes at the gun show and has admitted as much, the other "police interviewing neighbors" story is nothing but pure bullshit.

I'm calling BULLSHIT on your bullshit!





   

 I worked the gun show's every week for a few years and can tell you first hand the person that promotes that show is a pretty good person. I dont believe steve elliot will let this go unchecked.

Quoted: Quoted: Look, guys - I've been a Title II dealer for more than 2 decades, and I've seen all this before.  And it also means that I see it from a different perspective than the rest of you.  For instance, there's James Lalime.  Many of you seem to see him as some sort of victim or freedom fighter.  I see him as a criminal who fucks things up for dealers like me and other individuals.  He's one of those guys who buys a bunch of guns on 4473s from the dealer he works for then sets up a table at several gun shows and resells them as a "private party" to people who want to avoid the background check (possibly due to criminal records).  It's assholes like this that makes my life difficult.  (BTW - the dealer he works for can expect a very thorough compliance inspection in the near future.) And you can prove all of this? I would suppose that someone as emminently reasonable as you would have verifiable and documentable proof before you accuse a citizen of being an illegal gun dealer. If you have such specific information, I suggest you call the BATFE. If not, I suggest you quit slandering someone you don't know.

Someone needs to contact mr James Lalime, and let him know java's slandering him on the web.

I smell a law suit!!!!!!!!!

Quoted: Why are Richmond City police operating outside of their jurisdiction?  I guess Henrico County is also going ghetto. GunLvr

Richmond police officers were dispatched to homes of people living in Richmond, Henrico police officers were dispatched to homes in Henrico.

Quoted: Quoted: Given his locaton, and the above quote, I will bet he gets all his money from .gov folks..... like the ATF. Unless he is man enough to say who he is we won't know, of course, but that would explain the ATF bootlicking. Geez, you guys are going all out trying to attack me personally.  My business, my hair, the city I live in. But that's fine with me because it shows just how weak your arguments really are. No, I am not an ATF agent, nor an ATF sympathizer.  But having had to deal with the ATF for many years you learn a thing or two.  In the same way as your CPA is not an "IRS bootlicker" but he knows how to deal with them and what makes them tick.  I'm a realist, living in the real world, dealing with real people, real laws, and real government agencies.  And maybe you don't like some of those laws, but guess what?  Too bad, 'cuz in this business if you don't dot all the "Is" and cross all the "Ts" and do everything exactly by the book you can get severly shit-hammered. And being in the industry, I've also learned a thing or two about gun dealers.  Especially the bottom feeders who are always trying to play fast and loose with the rules.  And I think that's what we have here.  Some guy gets scutinized by the ATF for straw sales and dealing without a license, so he launches into a campain to get all the tin-foil-hat-types riled up.  Oh, look!!  It's Lexington and Concorde all over again!!  Well here's a tip, guys - shiny side out. I'm looking for some eye-witness testimony to all these alleged abuses, but there are none.  Instead people start dragging out the same tired old "constitutional" diatribe and claims that it's going to be 1776 all over again.  Yeah, right.  Spare me the jingoistic banalities, and let's stick to the facts. And you've got no facts.  So suck it up and find some or roll over and admit you have nothing.

I have the fact that Steve Elliot, whom I have know for many many years even before he got big in the gunshow business, was convinced enough to go to Washington with lawyers as a result.

Surely, being from the same state and such a dealer as you claim you know Steve and his reputation?

I know him, and he is not the kind to go off half cocked. I know what he has done to fight abuses by authorities at gunshows in the past. he has doen more for RKBA and spent more money fighting abuses and bad laws yearly on all levels than most people spend just on guns in a lifetime.

I all know of you if someone who claims to be a title II dealer who dispalys an arrogant attitude of "
Sorry, but I don't do business with smallfry like you" and defending the ATF when he has just as little knowledge of what happened as anyone else here does. And you skirted around the question of how much of your business you do with the assorted Federal Agencies, given your location and you above quote. It does impact how much credance we should put into your opinion, as I would not expect you to bite the hand that feeds you.

Tag

I thought "smallfry" was what Javaman named his "male member" ... oh well.

Quoted: This is gonna BLOW up in their faces.

NOTHING will come of this.........

Don't worry, they're just testing the waters for now.

Phillip Van Cleave just sent out an alert with a link to the audio of the G. Gordon Liddy show where Gordon covers the ATF story:

2.  New URL for G. Gordon Liddy show on BATFE/Richmond The bandwidth required to let thousands of you listen to the G Gordon Liddy segment on the BATFE/Richmond debacle has overloaded the server where the show was stored.  We have moved a copy to the VCDL server, which has plenty of bandwidth. So, if you tried to listen to the segment earlier and couldn't get it to work, use this URL instead: http://tinyurl.com/8bzu7

If you are looking for a coherent account of what happened, this is it.

I like how Javaman resorts to chest thumping to try to win an argument.

"I don't deal with smallfry like you"

and "You don't have the money to do business with me"

Quoted: I like how Javaman resorts to chest thumping to try to win an argument. "I don't deal with smallfry like you" and "You don't have the money to do business with me"

I may not have the money to do buisness with him.

But I do know that there are some police officers who are members of VCDL, and I sure as hell know that there are some Christians who are police officers.

So even if he does most of his dealings with LE, he would find that not a few LE officers would tell him to buzz off if he said such stuff to their face. Ditto .mil people. Lots of Christians in the Armed Forces. I suppose they are all brain dead too.

BTW Javaman, unless you sell to .mil only, you do sell to "pissant civilians". Cops are civilians unless they are in the national guard.

You, sir, need a swift kick in the ass.

Quoted: I like how Javaman resorts to chest thumping to try to win an argument. "I don't deal with smallfry like you" and "You don't have the money to do business with me"

I'm waiting for him to say "NONE OF YOU CAN TAKE A FULL-POWER SHOT FROM ME!"

Look, guys - I've been a Title II dealer for more than 2 decades

Oh really Where's the proof?


I call and I'll use your own words to say so

This is an old scam, highly illegal. These are the assholes who make it difficult for all the other FFLs out there. All this unsubstantiated crap. The problem is, I don't see any evidence. No names, no witnesses. Some guy on the internet said. Nothing. Bullshit. There are no named witnesses coming forward. Story is nothing but pure bullshit. You're unable to discriminate the hard truth from unsubstantiated rumors. I can't find any evidence . So if this is indeed true, then why hasn't the president posted it on the web page?

So that's my complaint - too many people seem all too ready to believe anything that pops up on the internet that tends to fit their own personal agenda, even though absolutely no corroborating evidence whatsoever accompanies the unsubstantiated report. Somebody, please straighten me out. Provide some verifiable evidence. Until then, I'm calling bullshit.

Bomber

Quoted:

First, it's an old picture, and I don't have Eddie Rabbit hair any more.  Second, you don't have the funds to do business with me and I certainly wouldn't waste my time on a little pissant civilian like you.  So have no fears, we'll never have any dealings together.

yikes! 'scuse me, pissant little civilian coming through...

i've read some arrogant elitist horse-pucky here before, but damn!

So Javaman, what branch of service are you currently in?

Quoted: And apparently the ATFE (no "B," ask any agent) is already aware of Lalime.

Since they call themselves "Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives" I think
I will too!  Hope no one else minds.

Quoted: Quoted: First, it's an old picture, and I don't have Eddie Rabbit hair any more.  Second, you don't have the funds to do business with me and I certainly wouldn't waste my time on a little pissant civilian like you.  So have no fears, we'll never have any dealings together. yikes! 'scuse me, pissant little civilian coming through... i've read some arrogant elitist horse-pucky here before, but damn!

Damm, I missed that quote of his, he certainly has class.

His little "no B in BATFE" tells me a lot too. Before the E was added a pet peeve of most BATFE agents was trying to be like all the other "3 letter" agencies (FBI, DEA etc). I guess it is a pet peeve of his as well. Go figure.

Quoted: Quoted: You are a hypocrite. You do exactly what you accuse others of. BTW....go back to the VCDL website and do some more reading. We who actually live in VA and know Mr. Van Cleave, are closer to this than your sorry ass. Pedal your judgemental shit somewhere else. Oh, I see - since you live in VA that means you're blessed with some sort of insight that I don't have.  Hey, wait a minute, let me check my driver's license.  Well, what do you know? home.earthlink.net/~tclokey/AR15com/vadl.jpg Quoted: Reading is Fundamental It's all over the VA-ALERT Archive. Yes I know, I read all that.  And all I saw were a few baseless rumors with no evidence or details to back them up, and a copy of the same CNS News story, which does not have any details, either.  It's just the same crap recycled.  And it wouldn't really matter, because CNS News is not a reputable news source anyway. So where's this evidence?  I still don't see it. Look, guys - I've been a Title II dealer for more than 2 decades, and I've seen all this before.  And it also means that I see it from a different perspective than the rest of you.  For instance, there's James Lalime.  Many of you seem to see him as some sort of victim or freedom fighter.  I see him as a criminal who fucks things up for dealers like me and other individuals.  He's one of those guys who buys a bunch of guns on 4473s from the dealer he works for then sets up a table at several gun shows and resells them as a "private party" to people who want to avoid the background check (possibly due to criminal records).  It's assholes like this that makes my life difficult.  (BTW - the dealer he works for can expect a very thorough compliance inspection in the near future.) This whole thing seems to have been started when Lalime got hassled by the ATF.  From there it mushroomed into squads of Richmond PD and ATF and the gun show, and ended up with RPD making family and neighbors of gun show buyers filling out "surveys."  Except no one can produce anybody who got "surveyed." I'll tell you what I think happened - James Lalime got questioned by the ATF because they've been watching him sell a whole lot of "privately owned" guns at several gunshows.   He started spreading his story, along with some exaggerations and fabrications of police activities, and then people who heard these rumors started calling Philip Van Cleave who posts he's "received reports" on the VCDL web site and it got picked up by a super-right-wing pro gun, pro religion "news service" with an agenda.  From there it gets forwarded again and again to gun bulletin boards until everybody takes as hard fact. But it isn't.  Because there's no evidence except 4th or 5th had reports.  And no witnesses.  So I'm still waiting for the evidence.  Anyone?

I see that the State of Virginia has got it right on your driver's license:  "CLASS:  NONE"

This is one of the funniest threads ever.

javaman getting bitchslapped by a bunch of lowly Christian civilians.

What a tard.

Are you guys still whining about me?  Instead of attacking me personally, maybe you oughta try and collect some facts.  And by "facts" I don't mean "I know this guy who said this other guy..."

Quoted: I have the fact that Steve Elliot, whom I have know for many many years even before he got big in the gunshow business, was convinced enough to go to Washington with lawyers as a result. Surely, being from the same state and such a dealer as you claim you know Steve and his reputation? I know him, and he is not the kind to go off half cocked. I know what he has done to fight abuses by authorities at gunshows in the past. he has doen more for RKBA and spent more money fighting abuses and bad laws yearly on all levels than most people spend just on guns in a lifetime.

So let me get this straight - some guy you know is doing something in Washington that you don't know.  And these are "facts?"  You realize you'd get laughed out of every courtroom in the nation.  You need to stop watching so much TV.  Why hasn't VCDL dug up one single guy who said "RPD came to my house and told me my neighbor bought a gun"?  Instead they're rumor mongering and alerting the tin-foil-hat-squad who eagerly lap this crap up.

We're supposed rely on your reputation about some other guy's reputation that something happened, but you don't know what?  And you call these "facts?"  It's no wonder the progun segment of the country does so poorly in legal matters.

Quoted: I like how Javaman resorts to chest thumping to try to win an argument. "I don't deal with smallfry like you" and "You don't have the money to do business with me"

That was my response to John_Wayne777 threatening to boycott me.  Since I will never do business with him anyway, his statement was a joke.  Why don't you call up General Dynamics and tell them you'll never buy their stuff.  And then tell me how long they laugh at you.

Quoted: yikes! 'scuse me, pissant little civilian coming through...

In my business, yes.

i've read some arrogant elitist horse-pucky here before, but damn!

Quite simply, you're not in my market segment.  So your opinions on that market have no value.

Quoted: I may not have the money to do buisness with him.

You don't.  See above.

But I do know that there are some police officers who are members of VCDL, and I sure as hell know that there are some Christians who are police officers.

You're playing the Religion Card?  Do I need to remind you that some of the greatest mass murderers in history were Christian?  And all this has to do with the current topic because...?"

So even if he does most of his dealings with LE, he would find that not a few LE officers would tell him to buzz off if he said such stuff to their face. Ditto .mil people. Lots of Christians in the Armed Forces. I suppose they are all brain dead too.

Whay are you still harping on your religion?  Are you that brainwashed that you can't talk about any subject without trying to inject "christianity" into the debate?  Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick!!  They had to create a seperate forum just for you guys so the rest of us could have some peace.

BTW Javaman, unless you sell to .mil only, you do sell to "pissant civilians". Cops are civilians unless they are in the national guard.

I said I don't deal with retail individuals.  Try and clear some of that superstitious dogma out of your head for a few minutes and maybe you'll be able to comprehend what I said.

You, sir, need a swift kick in the ass.

Well, you wouldn't be the first to try, and I'm sure you won't be the last.    You'll get your chance at the Creek, if you can get on the line, of course.

Quoted: His little "no B in BATFE" tells me a lot too. Before the E was added a pet peeve of most BATFE agents was trying to be like all the other "3 letter" agencies (FBI, DEA etc). I guess it is a pet peeve of his as well. Go figure.

No, I was just trying to show that these people have never had any dealings with the ATF.  People who work for the agency never use the "B" so when you see someone using the full BATF or BATFE then you know they have no experience with them whatsoever and you can ignore what they have to say.

I'm still waiting for some type of eye witness evidence on these police "visits" but it looks like the Chicken Littles on the board have scared them all away.

Quoted: You're playing the Religion Card?  Do I need to remind you that some of the greatest mass murderers in history were Christian?  And all this has to do with the current topic because...?"

Because you brought it up, genius. YOU are the one who said:

I think your religious indoctrination has completely destroyed your capacity for critical thought. You've spent so much of your lifetime waiting to eagerly lap up any bullshit fairy story shoveled out to you by self-appointed authority figures that you're unable to discriminate the hard truth from unsubstantiated rumors.

So the proper question would be posed to you: What in the heck does religion have to do with this topic? What burned your little cry-hole so bad that you felt you had to bring religion into this thread?

You brought it up, fucknuts.

BTW -- Last I checked, Stalin wasn't a Christian, and neither was Hitler. So it would seem that the worst mass murderers in history are actually atheists. But not that any of that matters, because you shouldn't be bringing religion into this in the first place.

Whay are you still harping on your religion?  Are you that brainwashed that you can't talk about any subject without trying to inject "christianity" into the debate?  Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick!!  They had to create a seperate forum just for you guys so the rest of us could have some peace.

Again, skippy, YOU brought it up.

You should just quit talking now.

Every time you type something, 10 25 more people on the site are convinced that you are an idiot.

If you sell guns in Virginia, odds are that somebody you sell to is a VCDL member. And odds are even greater that they are a Christian.

I sincerely doubt that they would desire for their organization to purchase anything from someone of your ilk.

Quoted: well, if ever there was another reason i needed NOT to go to the richmond gunshows, this is it!

I think I would go and buy twice as many guns as I normally would.
...and they would look twice as black, and twice as EVIL!

Can you say pwned . I caught the irony too. Once again, javadude puts his foot in his mouth LOL.

Bomber

Quoted: Someone needs to contact mr James Lalime, and let him know java's slandering him on the web. I smell a law suit!!!!!!!!!

Excuse me, I take great offense to that statement.  I am clearly NOT "slandering" James Lalime.  Slander is a spoken defamation, and I'm writing this.  More correctly you need to contact James Lalime and let him know that I am libeling him.  

Quoted: You brought it up, fucknuts.

"Fucknuts?"  That's not a very christian thing to say.  And no, I wasn't bringing up the VCDL members' religion, I was only talking about you because I know how gullible you are like to readily believe anything that seems to fit into your pre-concieved mindset.  You really need to be more skeptical and not lap up any bullshit that anyone just throws in front of you.

If you sell guns in Virginia, odds are that somebody you sell to is a VCDL member. And odds are even greater that they are a Christian. I sincerely doubt that they would desire for their organization to purchase anything from someone of your ilk.

And yet you're still harping on this shit.  I told you, I don't sell to retail individuals.  You really do have problems with comprehension, don't you?

Every time you type something, 10 25 more people on the site are convinced that you are an idiot.

Only 10 25?  I must be slipping.

Javaman, what are your facts?


That you have dealt with the ATF? Wooo-hooo so have millions of Americans, including the gunshow promoters involved in this case. Including myself. You have no "special" or "secret" knowledge.

I know Steve, and if he has allowed his name to be included in this I find it credible. Much more so that your defending of LE based upon................... your arrogant idea that you know more than "lowly civilians". I also have dealt with the BATFE before, and found the agents I dealt with to be less than stellar.

And I have seen political higher ups in both Federal and local LE do asanine things thinking it would be a good career builder.

I have seen people before who seem to think that somehow doing business with military or LE somehow makes them special... your comments in this post seem to indicate you are one of them.

Quoted: "Fucknuts?"  That's not a very christian thing to say.

The day I take advice from you on what is Christain, OR what to say, is the day I kill myself.

And no, I wasn't bringing up the VCDL member's religion, I was only talking about you because I know how gullible you are like to readily believe anything that seems to fit into your pre-concieved mindset.  You really need to be more skeptical and not lap up any bullshit that anyone just throws in front of you.

Whatever you say, sonny.

This "bullshit", as you put it, was sent out by the president of VCDL. It has made national news and is in the beginning stages of legal action by the show promoter.

I suppose they are all "brain dead" idiots too who believe "bullshit" that someone else fed them, right? Since the PRESIDENT of the VCDL put the alert out, clearly he and the other members like myself must all be brain dead idiots, as you allege.

And yet you're still harping on this shit.

Yes.

I will continue to "harp" on this "shit".

You are not only the most arrogant bigot I have encountered on this board, you are also a disgrace to gun owners and dealers everywhere, and are not the least bit shy about calling a law abiding citizen a criminal for obeying the law.

You, sir, are a complete disgrace.

I won't stop harping on it.

And I assure you that if Virginia gun owners knew anything about the way you have behaved in this thread, they wouldn't stop harping on it either.

You are a stain on this site.

Quoted: Quoted: home.earthlink.net/~tclokey/AR15com/vadl.jpg Look, guys - I've been a Title II dealer for more than 2 decades, and I've seen all this before.  And it also means that I see it from a different perspective than the rest of you. Title II dealer huh? Interesting....

I want to know his place of business so I can avoid it at all costs.

Quoted: I want to know his place of business so I can avoid it at all costs.

He doesn't sell to "pissant civilians" like us.

Javaman, you're clearly an amateur. You completely suck at the internet.

Nobody gives a shit if you are the Rear Admiral of Starfleet Command. You have evidenced to us all that you're a grade A dimwit.

ETA... This pissant civilian could buy and sell you and your great grandchildren 25 times over.

Quoted: Quoted: I want to know his place of business so I can avoid it at all costs. He doesn't sell to "pissant civilians" like us.

I have had the ability to buy for .mil. I probably will be in the position again.

Quoted: I have had the ability to buy for .mil. I probably will be in the position again.

Which is why he is trying to remain anonymous.

He may not be smart, but he isn't a total idiot.

"It is the invariable habit of bureaucracies, at all times and everywhere, to assume– that every citizen is a criminal. Their one apparent purpose, pursued with a relentless and furious diligence, is to convert the assumption into a fact. They hunt endlessly for proofs, and, when proofs are lacking, for mere suspicions. The moment they become aware of a definite citizen, John Doe, seeking what is right under the law, they begin searching feverishly for an excuse for withholding it from him."
-Henry Louis Mencken