Quoted: Quoted: I think you're being a little hysterical.  This is just a heavy-handed version of Footloose.  Youth dance culture is finally making inroads into the squarest, most conservative state in the US.

Pure fucking gold.

I say that's quote material.  That's what I say.

Quoted: The security guards that were confiscating drugs from concert goers were arrested for posession of the drugs that were confiscated from concert goers.  Wouldn't that be like arresting the police that confiscated drugs from the concert goers for posession of drugs?

Not at all unless there is a specific security guard exemption in the law for processing evidence. If so, the security guards were under obligation to contact the police immediately each time they found drugs.  Instead it appears they were takeing everything for their personal use at the next rave.

The video looked pretty f&cked up to me. If the permits etc were obtained (there has to be a papertrail) then it looks like the LE organization that raided the rave is going to be getting served with some lawsuits in short order. If it was truly an illegal gathering then I guess all is well in the land of multiple wives. The cops gotta use their high speed bdu's and other equipment sometime to justify the cost.

We have these things on occasion,  they're not as common as they used to be,  several shootings and sexual assaults have kind of driven the crowd away.  Plus putting the chief organizer/drug pusher in prison helped as well.

One thing to note for the "private property" guys.  I highly doubt the OWNERS of the property had given permission for the event.

Usual method of operation is for the organizers to pick an out of the way place such as an empty lot, abandoned building etc, and announce the location at the last minute.  The property owner finds out about it a week later when he discovers the pile of garbage, shit, and vandalism.

Make no mistake about it, the reason for these is for the organizer to make a lot of money.  Fast, illegally, and to hell with the attendees.

tag for later reading

I seen that video. I really didn't see anything wrong.

There's a post a bout this on the rave boards.

1.) It was private property that was rented out by the owner to the organizers.

2.) It was not a rave, it was a concert with 700 tickets presold through agencies.

3.) They hired private security who were and DID confiscate drugs. (The cops of course arrested the security guards for possession).

4.) They HAD A PERMIT.

homepage.mac.com/apexgrin/FileSharing2.html
www.angrymobclan.com/facism.mov
www.utrave.org/showthread.php?t=20020

I've done some more reading:

Wasn't this rave called "Music Versus Guns"

WTF is up with that?

Quoted: There's a post a bout this on the rave boards. 1.) It was private property that was rented out by the owner to the organizers.Do you have a statement from the property owner stating this? 2.) It was not a rave, it was a concert with 700 tickets presold through agencies.Fella, even your OWN LINKS call it a rave.  When they presell 700 tickets but expect 3K at an undisclosed location, does that not tell you something? 3.) They hired private security who were and DID confiscate drugs. (The cops of course arrested the security guards for possession).Putting a "security" T-shirt on some day laborer does not make it legal for him to possess drugs or confiscate anything.  Of COURSE he get's arrested.  Your "Security"  were probably also your pushers. 4.) They HAD A PERMIT.  Already discussed.  Let's see it. homepage.mac.com/apexgrin/FileSharing2.html www.angrymobclan.com/facism.mov www.utrave.org/showthread.php?t=20020

I especially like the "eyewitness accounts"  Did you know "National Guardsmen carry Ak-47's, Steyr Aug's, and MP-5's?  That they have "attack dogs" and beat up women?


As for those claiming "lawsuit", dream on.

I found another video of this, on some 15 year old's web site.

]blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=15561992&blogID=43257218&Mytoken=20050823025055[/url

Scroll down to the video window.

Some choice quotes that the media will eat up:

"The police are here."

"Dude, put the drugs in the tent."

"Oh shit, I just took a pill"

Quoted: I found another video of this, on some 15 year old's web site. ]blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=15561992&blogID=43257218&Mytoken=20050823025055[/url Scroll down to the video window. Some choice quotes that the media will eat up: "The police are here." "Dude, put the drugs in the tent." "Oh shit, I just took a pill"

 

Quoted: I found another video of this, on some 15 year old's web site. ]blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=15561992&blogID=43257218&Mytoken=20050823025055[/url Scroll down to the video window. Some choice quotes that the media will eat up: "The police are here." "Dude, put the drugs in the tent." "Oh shit, I just took a pill"

Jeez.  Friggin X-ing ravers.  Hey mouthbreather, the video camera is not a glow stick.  Don't wave it aorund like your buddy was with his raver toys.  I would suspect that your confusion of this fact was the cause of "what i got wasnt much but im sure its enough to be useful in some way."

Flipping the camera upside down is neither beneficial to evidence gathering/documentation for the wronged parties case, nor is it artistic.  

It sounds like the local police were tired of these raves going on and the community was as well.  They found a reason to go in (the incorrect permit) and did so, making arrests for other offenses.

To me it is the same as the police vice units targetting privately owned bath houses and massage parlors.  Both are known very well for illegal activity (prostitution and drug use).  Targetting such locations for law enforment and to send a clear message that such activity is not welcome and will be dealt with harshly is good to go.

Could there have been police abuses on this occasion?  Surely.  I would even say it is likeley.  Did the agencies to right by raiding this rave?  You betcha.  Probably would have been better if they'd just done it in normal uniforms though.

I'm listening to Paul Van Dyke's, We are Alive, right now.

yeah i know it says texas next to my name but i grew up in utah not very far from this place

first of all people this is utah county, otherwise know as happy valley. not only is it located in the most conservative state, it is propably the most conservative county in that state.

the locals look harshly on this type of activity, plus if they had a permit there will be a copy at the office they got it from, so it is a simple matter of going down and getting it xerox again. btw IMHO if they had a permit they were morons not to make copies, because they knew this rave was going to attract attention by the simple fact of not announcing the location until the morning of the party,

These gathereings are a bad idea. me being a lowly college student for whatever that opinion counts for.

"gotta hit the airport soon. can't wait to get the fuck out of this shit hole state. "

Hope you enjoyed your stay in Spanish Fork!

Quoted: Quoted: 4.) They HAD A PERMIT.  Already discussed.  Let's see it. As for those claiming "lawsuit", dream on.

www.sploid.com/news/2005/08/23/utah-officials-rave-had-all-permits-118793.php

The party producers have a good case for a lawsuit, IMO. They follow every rule, on private land, not bothering anybody, people are there voluntarily to have a good time, and the cops STILL come down like this?  What else should they have done?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4.) They HAD A PERMIT.  Already discussed.  Let's see it. As for those claiming "lawsuit", dream on. www.sploid.com/news/2005/08/23/utah-officials-rave-had-all-permits-118793.php The party producers have a good case for a lawsuit, IMO. They follow every rule, on private land, not bothering anybody, people are there voluntarily to have a good time, and the cops STILL come down like this?  What else should they have done?

Well, it seems they did have a permit.  Although the drug charges will stick no matter what.  I could care less about ravers and their hippie scene, especially a "Music versus Guns" party, but it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

News flash:  You can find people using drugs at a Phish concert, hip-hop festival, or Willie Nelson show.

Quoted: News flash:  You can find people using drugs at a Phish concert, hip-hop festival, or Willie Nelson show.

Really?

Here's an interesting account of what happened...

I saw about 7 people attacked (before being forced to leave). I saw two of them right in front of me. One was a guy who was walking around with a camcorder stunned at what was happening. A soldier told him to give him the camera now. The raver said no it is my camera. The soldier then proceeded to grab the camera, throw it to the ground and then began beating the kid. In the end they threw him to the ground violently an put their knee into his back while handcuffing him. All for wanting to keep his property. When I last saw him he was knocked out and unmoving. Another girl next to me said to one of the soldiers that she didn't know how to get home as they had just arrested her friend. The soldier told her to walk home. My friend tried to grab her to bring her with us, but the soldier began yelling that she had touched him (which she hadn't). WIthin seconds, five soldiers had jumped on her and were literally beating the crap out of this innocent women. She was punched in the face, thrown to the ground, and kicked while down. All for worrying how to get home safely. She is now suing.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4.) They HAD A PERMIT.  Already discussed.  Let's see it. As for those claiming "lawsuit", dream on. www.sploid.com/news/2005/08/23/utah-officials-rave-had-all-permits-118793.php The party producers have a good case for a lawsuit, IMO. They follow every rule, on private land, not bothering anybody, people are there voluntarily to have a good time, and the cops STILL come down like this?  What else should they have done?

Even if they had the correct permits, which they did not, once the undercover cops on scene observed widesprerad drug use at the party they were authorized to shut it down.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4.) They HAD A PERMIT.  Already discussed.  Let's see it. As for those claiming "lawsuit", dream on. www.sploid.com/news/2005/08/23/utah-officials-rave-had-all-permits-118793.php The party producers have a good case for a lawsuit, IMO. They follow every rule, on private land, not bothering anybody, people are there voluntarily to have a good time, and the cops STILL come down like this?  What else should they have done? Even if they had the correct permits, which they did not, once the undercover cops on scene observed widesprerad drug use at the party they were authorized to shut it down.

Someday I shall write a Musical about this thread. It shall bore all to tears.

On a complete tangent, how does this law requiring a permit for any large gathering work in the case of, say, demonstrations and other political gatherings?

"I wish to request a permit to protest the Governor"
"Denied"
"Oh. OK then."

NTM

Fine bust the rave if they have no permit or the wrong permit. But do they really need to play dress up in woodland and get out the MP5s with mag couplers? They would be better equipped if they had riot gear, faceshields etc.

Quoted: So a permit and county aproval is needed to assemble on private property. Who else sees the basic problem here.

I do if these are the facts:

The police were rounding up the staff of the party and the main promoter went up to them with the permit for the show and said "here, I have the permit." The police then said, "no you don't" and ripped the permit out of his hand. Then, they put an assault rifle to his forehead and said "get the fuck out of here right now."


Now.. let's get the facts straight here.

This event was 100% legal. They had every permit the city told them they needed. They had a 2 MILLION DOLLAR insurance policy for the event. They had liscenced security guards at the gates confiscating any alcohol or drugs found upon entry (yes, they searched every car on the way in). Oh, I suppose I should mention that they arrested all the security guards for possession.

We know they had a permit.  We haven't see any paperwork to prove any of this however, and no proof of the insurance or other necessary items either.  So far, other than the permit guy for the county stating they had a permit, it's all hearsay.  The guns to the head, the beatings, the tear gas.  Even people there are saying the "gas" was a smoke machine.  Morons.  I watched the news report posted on that site, and one person claiming to be roughed up by the police was showing her arm.  Not one mark or the slightest of bruising.  I'm not saying they weren't rough or whatever, but don't claim something you can't really show proof of.

Permits, schmermits.

Open air drug sales. Widespread use, sale, delivery of controlled substances. Underground party attended by thugs, lowlifes and morons. Permits don't matter. You get together with 3,000 people to do drugs, don't be suprised if the cops show up and arrest everyone. The existence of permits had no real bearing on the matter. Once they established the drug sales, the whole deal was all over but the shouting. Sounds like a fun op.

Questions Raised Whether Raided Utah Party Needed Commission Approval

ASSOCIATED PRESS



PROVO, Utah (AP) -- One of the justifications offered by the Utah County sheriff's office for raiding a gathering in Spanish Fork Canyon Saturday night was that sponsors failed to get a mass-gathering permit from the County Commission.

Organizers had obtained a permit from the county Health Department, which meant complying with regulations regarding portable toilets, food and other health concerns.

But the county code also mandates a security-related permit for any ''anticipated assembly of 250 or more people which continues or can reasonably be expected to continue for 12 or more consecutive hours.''

The party, which sheriff's officers said was a rave, began at 9 p.m. Saturday in the Diamond Fork area. More than two hours later, 90 law enforcement officers from various agencies, including fully armed SWAT team members, swarmed the crowd of roughly 300.

They issued 60 citations, confiscated a pile of drugs and other contraband and cleared the area - using methods many partygoers described as brutal.

Event promoter Brandon Fullmer of Salt Lake City-based Uprock Records said the party was scheduled to conclude at 6:30 a.m. Sunday - short of the 12-hour period requiring the security permit.

''I didn't need a permit,'' Fullmer said. ''What they did was wrong. And there will be justice.''

An attorney for Fullmer and landowner Trudy Childs has filed requests for all related documents from the health department, county attorney and commissioners.

Sheriff Jim Tracy said authorities reasonably expected partygoers to linger to 9 a.m. and beyond.

''People are up all night partying hard and have a camping area,'' he said. ''If you've been up since 9 o'clock the night before, we are assuming you're not going to jump right up and get out of there, and will exceed the 12 hour period.''

Security personnel and the sound technician from Salt Lake-based Performance Audio said they were contracted for the time period cited by Fullmer.

Jay Stone, the county Health Department's food program manager, said that agency's permits are being changed to required signatures ''from the sheriff and the fire marshal and others, so we can be sure they've taken care of all they need to.''

Quoted: Questions Raised Whether Raided Utah Party Needed Commission Approval ASSOCIATED PRESS PROVO, Utah (AP) -- One of the justifications offered by the Utah County sheriff's office for raiding a gathering in Spanish Fork Canyon Saturday night was that sponsors failed to get a mass-gathering permit from the County Commission. Organizers had obtained a permit from the county Health Department, which meant complying with regulations regarding portable toilets, food and other health concerns. But the county code also mandates a security-related permit for any ''anticipated assembly of 250 or more people which continues or can reasonably be expected to continue for 12 or more consecutive hours.'' The party, which sheriff's officers said was a rave, began at 9 p.m. Saturday in the Diamond Fork area. More than two hours later, 90 law enforcement officers from various agencies, including fully armed SWAT team members, swarmed the crowd of roughly 300. They issued 60 citations, confiscated a pile of drugs and other contraband and cleared the area - using methods many partygoers described as brutal. Event promoter Brandon Fullmer of Salt Lake City-based Uprock Records said the party was scheduled to conclude at 6:30 a.m. Sunday - short of the 12-hour period requiring the security permit. ''I didn't need a permit,'' Fullmer said. ''What they did was wrong. And there will be justice.'' An attorney for Fullmer and landowner Trudy Childs has filed requests for all related documents from the health department, county attorney and commissioners. Sheriff Jim Tracy said authorities reasonably expected partygoers to linger to 9 a.m. and beyond. ''People are up all night partying hard and have a camping area,'' he said. ''If you've been up since 9 o'clock the night before, we are assuming you're not going to jump right up and get out of there, and will exceed the 12 hour period.'' Security personnel and the sound technician from Salt Lake-based Performance Audio said they were contracted for the time period cited by Fullmer. Jay Stone, the county Health Department's food program manager, said that agency's permits are being changed to required signatures ''from the sheriff and the fire marshal and others, so we can be sure they've taken care of all they need to.''

I think that if you start a party at 9:00PM and have a designated camping area, you're going to be hard pressed to suggest that the event cannot be reasonably anticipated to last more than 12 hours.  

Its a squishy standard, but if there is grey area, why not get the permit and be safe about it.  

The promoters have gone from saying, in numerous public statements all of the following:  

"We had all the reuired permits"

Then, "we didn't know we needed another permit"

Then, "we knew there was another permit, but we weren't required to get it"

.. all in the course of a few days.  

Those inconsistent statements reek of "backfill" efforts, and aren't going to do these guys any service when they get to trial on their litigation.

Add that to the fact that the property owner and promoter have been reported by posters on that other message board as having been arrested for controlled substance violaitons, and they're going to have a tough road to push in getting any relief.

What's great is that they're planning another major blammo rave.   This time they'll get all the permits, they'll hire all the security, and the cops will probably back off.   And in their jubiliation at sticking it to "the man," there's an odds on probability that there will be a major sexual assault, an overdose or three, or some other action that will justify the cops in preemptively shutting down every one of these events in the future.

plus if they had a permit there will be a copy at the office they got it from, so it is a simple matter of going down and getting it xerox again.

You don't think the copy at the .gov office might disappear?

Ah, geez, I'm all out of give a damn.

Wow, this happened just a few miles up the road from my house!

If it was a rave party, I simply have no sympathy.  I have no desire for mobs of druggies to gather together in this county.

We have two major universities in the county just a ten minute drive apart.  There's lots of parties, dances, etc going on.  It's probably because of the county's experience with the college gatherings that the ordinances about permits were created.

My gut feeling is that this was nothing more than a drug-fest organized by a bunch of scumbags trying to make a quick buck.

Yes, this is Utah County and Provo (a few miles north of Spanish Fork) is the most conservative city (with over 100,00 people) in the nation.  It's a great place to get an education and it's a great place for raising a family.  As far as I'm concerned, the ravers can either stay out or enjoy their stay in jail.

There is a big difference in a First Amendment protected free political gathering on private property and a for profit concert or similar activity.  Once you go for profit you have to meet the sanitation laws, etc.  

Now if this was in fact a legal gathering all permitted why bother to keep the location secret?

Why didn't the organizers coordinate with local law enforcement, fire  marshals and EMT ahead of time.  Most places where they have big concerts, or similar gatherings the organizers make sure there I's are dotted and T's crossed. Why?  Id somebody gets hurt who do you think they go after first?  And what happens when the jury finds out that the organizaers didn't follow fire codes?  Remember the RI night club fire a while back when the fireworks lit the building off?

There's a reason we pay our professionals to make sure things are ready and safe because we don't want to worry when we go., etc.

Now did they go overboard in shutting things down?  probably.  But in that County, that's what they elect their reps and pay their LEOs to do.  That;s why we have lawyers and a constitutional right to petition for redress of grievances.  AKA Sue the bastards.

Quoted: So a permit and county aproval is needed to assemble on private property. Who else sees the basic problem here.

+1

actually a raver is a participant in a rave which is a name applied to any kind of outdoor party,  such as 'rave at the lake' 'rave on the slopes' etc. It is not just applied to drug parties.

Those kids could really use some discipline.

Quoted: actually a raver is a participant in a rave which is a name applied to any kind of outdoor party,  such as 'rave at the lake' 'rave on the slopes' etc. It is not just applied to drug parties.

In Utah it generally is.

Quoted: Quoted: So a permit and county aproval is needed to assemble on private property. Who else sees the basic problem here. +1

It was a paid admission, ticket required event and therefore a business event, not a public gathering.   Thus, the county is perfectly within its rights to require business permits.

Quoted: actually a raver is a participant in a rave which is a name applied to any kind of outdoor party,  such as 'rave at the lake' 'rave on the slopes' etc. It is not just applied to drug parties.

Never heard the term Rave used except in reference to parties involving repetitive music, flashing lights, and drugs.

Here is my take:

I don't believe that what they were doing was necessarily healthy activity, but that is just my opinion.  I have no use physically for raving or philisophicaly either.  I am sure that some illegal activity was going on, but that stuff happens at smaller gatherings as well as large ones.  This whole thing leaves me uneasy to say the least.  Are we next?

I believe that everyone should download and watch the video before making a judgement.  The actions of law enforcement seemed a bit (read waaaay) heavy handed.  I can understand being a bit intimidated about the possibility of some druggie having a weapon, but golly, can't you just show up in uniform with your sidearm and do your job?  You know, "the man" and all that.  Is full battle gear with helmets and M4's that necessary?  Dogs and tear gas used right away against skinny raver girls (and dudes for that matter)?!?!?  I know, I wasn't there, but the video is worth a thousand words.  I sometimes wonder if folks (read police) don't like to suit up, gear up, and load up and then NOT use all their toys.

Anyway, I think this all points to the level of fear that must be going on out there in Utah.  Perhaps the whole nation.  LEO's might feel that overwhelming force and firepower is needed when facing a crowd.  Maybe they have to justify the budget for the helicopter and all the gear, so some local law enforcement head cheesee decided to break out all the toys on the ravers to look like a hero and justify an expense line.  Believe me, I have seen some very foolish purchases made by politicians just to keep the money flowing.

Now, try this one on for size:
Imagine a gun event similar to Bulletfest or Octoberblast or whatever.  Fifty or so shooters are having fun on the line, permits in place, (or so they thought) and the local BATFE agent gets a report that someone has a machinegun that is not registered.  They show up in overwhelming force with a helicopter, 2 dueces full of leos in soldier gear and an apc.  There are some tense moments, a few people get run down with dogs and arrested, but no shots are fired.  Most everyone is allowed to leave except a few "people of interest" to the BATFE agent who got the "tip."  Ends up through a clerical error by the local desk jockey, a $50.00 noise permit has not been purchased, so the leos use that as fuel for the justified raid.

I will let you fill in the ending about the "machine guns," etc.  The libs take a small amount of interest because of the heavy handed nature of the breakup, but otherwise don't care because this happens to a bunch of gun nuts.  Guns nuts, afer all, are not "our people" so interest is low; some even think they "got what they deserved" being a bunch of miscreants anyway.

One lib even posts the following opinion:

I don't believe that what they were doing was necessarily healthy activity, but that is just my opinion.  I have no use physically for ravingguns or philisophicaly either.  I am sure that some illegal activity was going on, but that stuff happens at smaller gatherings as well as large ones.  This whole thing leaves me uneasy to say the least.  Are we next?

My point is this:  Those ravers may not be "us", but are they "them" as much as we think?

-White Horse

Quoted: There is a big difference in a First Amendment protected free political gathering on private property and a for profit concert or similar activity.  Once you go for profit you have to meet the sanitation laws, etc.   Now if this was in fact a legal gathering all permitted why bother to keep the location secret? Why didn't the organizers coordinate with local law enforcement, fire  marshals and EMT ahead of time.  Most places where they have big concerts, or similar gatherings the organizers make sure there I's are dotted and T's crossed. Why?  Id somebody gets hurt who do you think they go after first?  And what happens when the jury finds out that the organizaers didn't follow fire codes?  Remember the RI night club fire a while back when the fireworks lit the building off? There's a reason we pay our professionals to make sure things are ready and safe because we don't want to worry when we go., etc. Now did they go overboard in shutting things down?  probably.  But in that County, that's what they elect their reps and pay their LEOs to do.  That;s why we have lawyers and a constitutional right to petition for redress of grievances.  AKA Sue the bastards.

IIRC, they had EMT's and security on site.  This was also in the middle of nowhere

Quoted: Permits, schmermits. Open air drug gun sales. Widespread use, sale, delivery of controlled substances automatic firearms. Underground party attended by thugs, lowlifes and morons. Permits don't matter. You get together with 3,000 people to do drugs shoot machine guns, don't be suprised if the cops show up and arrest everyone. The existence of permits had no real bearing on the matter. Once they established the drug gun sales, the whole deal was all over but the shouting. Sounds like a fun op.

-White Horse

Quoted: Wow, this happened just a few miles up the road from my house! If it was a rave gun party, I simply have no sympathy.  I have no desire for mobs of druggies gun nuts to gather together in this county. We have two major universities gun ranges in the county just a ten minute drive apart.  There's lots of parties, dancesshooting get togethers, competitions, etc going on.  It's probably because of the county's experience with the college shooter gatherings that the ordinances about permits were created. My gut feeling is that this was nothing more than a druggun-fest organized by a bunch of scumbags trying to make a quick buck. Yes, this is Utah County and Provo (a few miles north of Spanish Fork) is the most conservative city (with over 100,00 people) in the nation.  It's a great place to get an education and it's a great place for raising a family.  As far as I'm concerned, the ravers gun nuts can either stay out or enjoy their stay in jail.

-White Horse

ETA:  Anybody see where I'm going with this or are the ravers just the Jews to us Polish?

Quoted: Quoted: Wow, this happened just a few miles up the road from my house! If it was a rave gun party, I simply have no sympathy.  I have no desire for mobs of druggies gun nuts to gather together in this county. We have two major universities gun ranges in the county just a ten minute drive apart.  There's lots of parties, dancesshooting get togethers, competitions, etc going on.  It's probably because of the county's experience with the college shooter gatherings that the ordinances about permits were created. My gut feeling is that this was nothing more than a druggun-fest organized by a bunch of scumbags trying to make a quick buck. Yes, this is Utah County and Provo (a few miles north of Spanish Fork) is the most conservative city (with over 100,00 people) in the nation.  It's a great place to get an education and it's a great place for raising a family.  As far as I'm concerned, the ravers gun nuts can either stay out or enjoy their stay in jail. -White Horse ETA:  Anybody see where I'm going with this or are the ravers just the Jews to us Polish?

Big +1 and a very good point.

Quoted: Quoted: Wow, this happened just a few miles up the road from my house! If it was a rave gun party, I simply have no sympathy.  I have no desire for mobs of druggies gun nuts to gather together in this county. We have two major universities gun ranges in the county just a ten minute drive apart.  There's lots of parties, dancesshooting get togethers, competitions, etc going on.  It's probably because of the county's experience with the college shooter gatherings that the ordinances about permits were created. My gut feeling is that this was nothing more than a druggun-fest organized by a bunch of scumbags trying to make a quick buck. Yes, this is Utah County and Provo (a few miles north of Spanish Fork) is the most conservative city (with over 100,00 people) in the nation.  It's a great place to get an education and it's a great place for raising a family.  As far as I'm concerned, the ravers gun nuts can either stay out or enjoy their stay in jail. -White Horse ETA:  Anybody see where I'm going with this or are the ravers just the Jews to us Polish?

Very much agreed...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Sheriff's statement: ..... Utah County mass gathering ordinance prohibits the gathering of two hundred and fifty or more persons without a permit, bond, and Utah County Commission approval.   I'll quote for you: 13-4-2-1. Required. No person shall permit, maintain, promote, conduct, advertise, act as entrepreneur, undertake, organize, manage, or sell or give tickets to an actual or reasonably anticipated assembly of two hundred fifty (250) or more people which continues or can reasonably be expected to continue for twelve (12) or more consecutive hours, whether on public or private property unless a license to hold the assembly has first been issued by the County Commissioners. (Ord. No. 1971-4, Section 2, 7-7-71) 13-4-2-2. Application. Application for a license to hold an actual or anticipated assembly of two hundred fifty (250) or more persons shall be made in writing to the County Commission at least thirty (30) days in advance of such assembly. So, sounds like if these guys went and got a state permit and did not look into the county's more exacting requirements, they're probably fucked.

The County regs state that it has to be more than 250 people and that will last more than 12 hrs. The organizers specificaly scheduled the show to be less than 12 hrs so they were in compliance with the permit code.

Quoted: Quoted: actually a raver is a participant in a rave which is a name applied to any kind of outdoor party,  such as 'rave at the lake' 'rave on the slopes' etc. It is not just applied to drug parties. Never heard the term Rave used except in reference to parties involving repetitive music, flashing lights, and drugs.

Same here.

Quoted: Quoted: stupid ravers. I guess it would be kind of funny if they just said "stupid gun owners" when they confiscate all our guns someday. Having been to a rave party more than once I can say that not everyone does drugs. Hell you can go to a Bruce Springsteen concert and find people using drugs. I wouldn't call Bruce Springsteen fans druggies.

No, just bad taste in musicians......

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: actually a raver is a participant in a rave which is a name applied to any kind of outdoor party,  such as 'rave at the lake' 'rave on the slopes' etc. It is not just applied to drug parties. Never heard the term Rave used except in reference to parties involving repetitive music, flashing lights, and drugs. Same here.

+1.

And as for these "brutal techniques" used by the big bad old police....aaaaaand how many were sent o the hospital?  Brutal...what like, "...take your hands out of your pockets..." they don't so an officer does it for them???Thats brutal?  (yes, im reading into the story.....they said brutal, but no examples...)

Anyway...back to my real life of work,  family & fun that doesn't involve drug use (well, if you don't count beer)

Quoted: Quoted: Wow, this happened just a few miles up the road from my house! If it was a rave gun party, I simply have no sympathy.  I have no desire for mobs of druggies gun nuts to gather together in this county. We have two major universities gun ranges in the county just a ten minute drive apart.  There's lots of parties, dancesshooting get togethers, competitions, etc going on.  It's probably because of the county's experience with the college shooter gatherings that the ordinances about permits were created. My gut feeling is that this was nothing more than a druggun-fest organized by a bunch of scumbags trying to make a quick buck. Yes, this is Utah County and Provo (a few miles north of Spanish Fork) is the most conservative city (with over 100,00 people) in the nation.  It's a great place to get an education and it's a great place for raising a family.  As far as I'm concerned, the ravers gun nuts can either stay out or enjoy their stay in jail. -White Horse ETA:  Anybody see where I'm going with this or are the ravers just the Jews to us Polish?

+1  People don't need guns.  We need door to door confiscations of all weapons to make society safe.  There should be no need for a warrant to go onto someones property and take their guns.  Bunch of filthy gunnuts whould be thrown in jail.

tag