Quoted: The mere fact that dogs allow themselve to be trained by their masters proves my point. Cats just wont do that, their independance is more important to them than approval or a handout.

Sorry cpt . . . there are cats who have been trained to be attack cats.  Saw it when I was a kid, in AL.  Man gave the guard command . . . cat 'pointed' to the cameraman, hackles up, then was given attack command and 15lbs of pissed feline went medieval on the poor guy.  Cats will be trained, it is simply more difficult to get the job done.

Uncle Remus says:

Another attempt to roughly estimate animal intelligence is to put the weight of the brain in relation to the body weight (bw). This ratio is highest in humans. In animals the apes have the highest brain/bw ratio followed by the whales and dolphins and then by cats. Dogs come later. If we define animal intelligence roughly as "ability to learn" -  there are two elements of learning: the ability to solve a given problem and the motivation to do so. Whith cats usually the motivation is the problem. I'll try to explain why. Cats are solitary  hunters. Their main points of orientation in life are time and space - social interactions are not frequent (at least for cats living in the wild). Cats can learn a lot - but they don't have a "social" motivation for learning, what makes training them sometimes quite difficult. Dogs are group hunters. Their main aspects of life are the social group and the hierarchy they live in. They must have exact communication skills to hunt sucessfully - this makes them much easier to train, they are eager to fulfill their social tasks by obeying orders

Dogs work.  Aim to please and serve a useful purpose.  They are also extremely loyal. They love to go hunting and prefer pickup trucks to cars.


Cats are extremely lazy.  They sleep most of the time andduring the night go out and have many sexual encounters.  They are also assholes. You feed it and they still might scratch you just for the hell of it.


also 85% of all crazy old ladies prefer cats


60% of the time it works EVERYTIME

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jeeze does that mean the gerbil I had as a kid was really smart also?  He never listened to anything I said .   A cat is more independent because domesticated cats still act on their instincts way more than dogs, and they just aren't as social of a species. It's fact that canines are smarter.  Do a little research.  It really won't take much to prove yourself wrong.  I'm not trying to burst your bubble. But in my thread, that would be YOUR job. Meh... I don't really feel like it.  I've already had classes that let me know I'm right.  It's not really worth the effort to do any real research. The fall semester for Dental School starts tommorow.  It's a mere 26hrs of credit.  That's enough studying for me thanks. Classes?  Guess what?  You weren't paying attention.  You gotta provide some proof other then spouting off about your dental school issues.

I don't see you providing proof.  I don't have any sources at my hands to cite besides the internet at the moment, and it isn't the best source to use for facts.  I do have a BS in Zoology though so I do feel that is something that relates to the subject.  I mostly studied biology but I have had several upper level classes that have covered the subject of animal behavior.  All I can really say is that domesticated canines are indeed of higher intelligence.  If you want to believe me fine if not then don't.

Nevermind

Quoted: Dogs work.  Aim to please and serve a useful purpose.  They are also extremely loyal. They love to go hunting and prefer pickup trucks to cars. Cats are extremely lazy.  They sleep most of the time andduring the night go out and have many sexual encounters.  They are also assholes. You feed it and they still might scratch you just for the hell of it. also 85% of all crazy old ladies prefer cats 60% of the time it works EVERYTIME

I agree 98.6% of what you say here FredM but have to hold out the remaining 1.4% because we all know a certain percentage of most things are made up.

Patty

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jeeze does that mean the gerbil I had as a kid was really smart also?  He never listened to anything I said .   A cat is more independent because domesticated cats still act on their instincts way more than dogs, and they just aren't as social of a species. It's fact that canines are smarter.  Do a little research.  It really won't take much to prove yourself wrong.  I'm not trying to burst your bubble. But in my thread, that would be YOUR job. Meh... I don't really feel like it.  I've already had classes that let me know I'm right.  It's not really worth the effort to do any real research. The fall semester for Dental School starts tommorow.  It's a mere 26hrs of credit.  That's enough studying for me thanks.

Your are wrong. Sorry, I'm too tired to tell you why.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The mere fact that dogs allow themselve to be trained by their masters proves my point. Cats just wont do that, their independance is more important to them than approval or a handout. The mere fact that dogs are CAPABLE of being trained show they are more evolved than cats. You need to look up the word "domestication." Dogs are capable of being trained and learning because they have a greater capacity for intelligence. Cats are not of the same capacity but simply "politically independent" as you suggest. By that token sheep must be Constitutionalists because they can't be trained to do a fucking thing. Sorry, but you have no clue of what you are talking about...   Dogs are more intelligent than cats. What part don't you get? So say you.  Cat's can't be trained?    You are so full of it it's funny!   Better try again, cause you really have no clue.

Not in any way comparable to dogs. Keep trying to buy a clue.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The mere fact that dogs allow themselve to be trained by their masters proves my point. Cats just wont do that, their independance is more important to them than approval or a handout. The mere fact that dogs are CAPABLE of being trained show they are more evolved than cats. You need to look up the word "domestication." Dogs are capable of being trained and learning because they have a greater capacity for intelligence. Cats are not of the same capacity but simply "politically independent" as you suggest. By that token sheep must be Constitutionalists because they can't be trained to do a fucking thing. Sorry, but you have no clue of what you are talking about...

+1

Cats can be "trained" as much as dogs can - it's just that most people don't bother to train cats.  There is inherently nothing about cats that make them "untrainable".


However - being able to train a stimulus-response is not particularly indicative of intelligence anyway.  I can "train" cockroaches and rats (using classical or operant conditioning) - not neccessarily as sign of "intelligence"

Which Are Smarter, Cats or Dogs?

Probably the best-known expert on the intelligence of dogs is Stanley Coren, a psychology professor at the University of British Columbia and the author of several books about dogs.

In The Intelligence of Dogs, Coren outlines three types of smarts that can be measured: instinctive, adaptive, and working. Instinctive intelligence describes what dogs are genetically designed to do. This is why some can herd sheep and others are good at retrieving tennis balls. Adaptive intelligence describes how well dogs can figure out what's going on around them--for example, how quickly they can find a hidden treat. Working intelligence describes how quickly they learn commands.

The book even contains instructions for measuring your dog's smarts. Even so, says Coren, the tests are biased against the dogs--they're only testing how well dogs understand us, not how well they understand each other.

Dogs, like humans, are social animals. They think in terms of how they relate to others. Domestic cats are not pack animals, which is why people laugh when someone trots out the old expression, "It was like herding cats!" This is also why many people, Coren included, make a strong case for dogs being smarter, paws down.

"The reason is very simple," he says. "If you have two animals that are roughly at the same evolutionary level and roughly the same [classification]--cats and dogs are both carnivores--the one that has the more complex social structure is almost always brighter."

Pack animals have to read signals and anticipate the effect of their actions. It's kind of like being a chess player. If you look at it in human developmental terms, a dog is about equivalent to a human two-year-old, which means it knows about 260 words or signals. The average cat, meanwhile, is more like an 18-month-old, which means it knows about 50 words. The more words a creature knows and the better it's able to communicate, the more it is apt to succeed in a social environment.

It's not that cats are too regal to perform tricks or obey commands, Coren says. It's that they don't understand how to do them. They just aren't able to learn language and read social cues as well as dogs.

Dogs, on the other hand, are champs at it. Maybe this is why dogs joined human families about 14,000 years ago, while cats were first domesticated 4,500 years ago. Dogs were quicker to figure out how to hop on board the human gravy train. In any case, this is why my dog always knows when she's going for a walk, even without my using the word--there's some signal I'm giving off without even knowing it.

This isn't to say that dogs are perfect at reading the body language of all species. In fact, in How to Speak Dog, Coren explains that this is one reason why cats and dogs often don't get along. A frightened or submissive dog will roll over, exposing its stomach. A cat, on the other hand, will roll on to its back when killing prey, or defending itself with its powerful hind legs. So, a dog might look at a cat on its back and think, "Hey. I won. Better go sniff and make peace." The cat, meanwhile, is thinking, "I'll disembowel Fifi if it's the last thing I do."

Despite this, dogs' skill at language and communication with humans has enabled them to not only be companions, but also to perform crucial jobs. In addition to helping police officers and people with disabilities, some dogs can even detect cancer with their noses.

Despite the pleasure they provide as pets and the rodents they dispatch for us, there's no evidence that cats can do anything like this. So, if intelligence is a measure of the complexity of a task an animal can perform, then dogs really do take first prize.

Someday, when we understand more of the things we can't measure, the answer to the Who's smarter? question might be different. Or maybe we'll just stop asking the question, because the important thing already is clear: Cats and dogs both think.

And until we're able to catch tennis balls in our mouths and kill mice with our bare hands, we should be impressed with them both.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jeeze does that mean the gerbil I had as a kid was really smart also?  He never listened to anything I said .   A cat is more independent because domesticated cats still act on their instincts way more than dogs, and they just aren't as social of a species. It's fact that canines are smarter.  Do a little research.  It really won't take much to prove yourself wrong.  I'm not trying to burst your bubble. But in my thread, that would be YOUR job. Meh... I don't really feel like it.  I've already had classes that let me know I'm right.  It's not really worth the effort to do any real research. The fall semester for Dental School starts tommorow.  It's a mere 26hrs of credit.  That's enough studying for me thanks. Classes?  Guess what?  You weren't paying attention.  You gotta provide some proof other then spouting off about your dental school issues. I don't see you providing proof.  I don't have any sources at my hands to cite besides the internet at the moment, and it isn't the best source to use for facts.  I do have a BS in Zoology though so I do feel that is something that relates to the subject.  I mostly studied biology but I have had several upper level classes that have covered the subject of animal behavior.  All I can really say is that domesticated canines are indeed of higher intelligence.  If you want to believe me fine if not then don't. captainpooby just posted proof.  Where's yours?

Posting an explanation isn't proof.  Did you not learn that in highschool?  You see there is a thing called citing your source as spouting off info is basically useless without it.  That's why I said I don't feel like doing the "research".  I never claimed anything I said to be proof.  I am not even talking about in the wild.  I am merely referring to domesticated varieties.

Quoted: Please do a little research.  You might be suprised.  I know you will.

My views are based on research. I'd suggest YOU do some.

Reposted for you:

Which Are Smarter, Cats or Dogs?

Probably the best-known expert on the intelligence of dogs is Stanley Coren, a psychology professor at the University of British Columbia and the author of several books about dogs.

In The Intelligence of Dogs, Coren outlines three types of smarts that can be measured: instinctive, adaptive, and working. Instinctive intelligence describes what dogs are genetically designed to do. This is why some can herd sheep and others are good at retrieving tennis balls. Adaptive intelligence describes how well dogs can figure out what's going on around them--for example, how quickly they can find a hidden treat. Working intelligence describes how quickly they learn commands.

The book even contains instructions for measuring your dog's smarts. Even so, says Coren, the tests are biased against the dogs--they're only testing how well dogs understand us, not how well they understand each other.

Dogs, like humans, are social animals. They think in terms of how they relate to others. Domestic cats are not pack animals, which is why people laugh when someone trots out the old expression, "It was like herding cats!" This is also why many people, Coren included, make a strong case for dogs being smarter, paws down.

"The reason is very simple," he says. "If you have two animals that are roughly at the same evolutionary level and roughly the same [classification]--cats and dogs are both carnivores--the one that has the more complex social structure is almost always brighter."

Pack animals have to read signals and anticipate the effect of their actions. It's kind of like being a chess player. If you look at it in human developmental terms, a dog is about equivalent to a human two-year-old, which means it knows about 260 words or signals. The average cat, meanwhile, is more like an 18-month-old, which means it knows about 50 words. The more words a creature knows and the better it's able to communicate, the more it is apt to succeed in a social environment.

It's not that cats are too regal to perform tricks or obey commands, Coren says. It's that they don't understand how to do them. They just aren't able to learn language and read social cues as well as dogs.

Dogs, on the other hand, are champs at it. Maybe this is why dogs joined human families about 14,000 years ago, while cats were first domesticated 4,500 years ago. Dogs were quicker to figure out how to hop on board the human gravy train. In any case, this is why my dog always knows when she's going for a walk, even without my using the word--there's some signal I'm giving off without even knowing it.

This isn't to say that dogs are perfect at reading the body language of all species. In fact, in How to Speak Dog, Coren explains that this is one reason why cats and dogs often don't get along. A frightened or submissive dog will roll over, exposing its stomach. A cat, on the other hand, will roll on to its back when killing prey, or defending itself with its powerful hind legs. So, a dog might look at a cat on its back and think, "Hey. I won. Better go sniff and make peace." The cat, meanwhile, is thinking, "I'll disembowel Fifi if it's the last thing I do."

Despite this, dogs' skill at language and communication with humans has enabled them to not only be companions, but also to perform crucial jobs. In addition to helping police officers and people with disabilities, some dogs can even detect cancer with their noses.

Despite the pleasure they provide as pets and the rodents they dispatch for us, there's no evidence that cats can do anything like this. So, if intelligence is a measure of the complexity of a task an animal can perform, then dogs really do take first prize.

Someday, when we understand more of the things we can't measure, the answer to the Who's smarter? question might be different. Or maybe we'll just stop asking the question, because the important thing already is clear: Cats and dogs both think.

And until we're able to catch tennis balls in our mouths and kill mice with our bare hands, we should be impressed with them both.

My brother trained a cat to play the keyboard.


Basically it stomped on it and then started to meow really loud and he fed it.  Soon it would stomp for a while before demanding food.



On a more useful not my buddy trained his dog to get a beer out of the cooler.....and it never demanded food.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The mere fact that dogs allow themselve to be trained by their masters proves my point. Cats just wont do that, their independance is more important to them than approval or a handout. The mere fact that dogs are CAPABLE of being trained show they are more evolved than cats. You need to look up the word "domestication." Dogs are capable of being trained and learning because they have a greater capacity for intelligence. Cats are not of the same capacity but simply "politically independent" as you suggest. By that token sheep must be Constitutionalists because they can't be trained to do a fucking thing. Sorry, but you have no clue of what you are talking about...   +1 Cats can be "trained" as much as dogs can - it's just that most people don't bother to train cats.  There is inherently nothing about cats that make them "untrainable". However - being able to train a stimulus-response is not particularly indicative of intelligence anyway.  I can "train" cockroaches and rats (using classical or operant conditioning) - not neccessarily as sign of "intelligence"

They can be trained but not nearly as much as already mentioned.

How many cats died for their buddies in WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam? How many cats have given their lives and are remembered for their service with memorials? Cats stink of hippies.

Quoted: Maybe this is why dogs joined human families about 14,000 years ago, while cats were first domesticated 4,500 years ago. Dogs were quicker to figure out how to hop on board the human gravy train.

I rest my case.

Quoted: Maybe this is why dogs joined human families about 14,000 years ago, while cats were first domesticated 4,500 years ago. Dogs were quicker to figure out how to hop on board the human gravy train. I rest my case.

Yup - man has has 10,000 more years to breed the dog into willing servitude.

The cat at least still has some independence.

Quoted: But cats can and do get trained.  And do understand verbal and other communications.  I love it when people post dog experts opinions and think it is actual research!    Cat's can't communicate and be trained!    This "expert" obviously hasn't bothered to watch the learning channel and any number of other shows that disprove his little theory. And why is it dogs will starve to death in the wild and cats will not?

Well AGAIN, if you had done ANY research you would find this was an excerpt of a 4 part study on the topic and I posted the last part which included the final answer. The other parts of the study included data from cat experts.

http://encarta.msn.com/column_catsanddogsmain_marthahome/Which_Are_Smarter_Cats_or_Dogs.html

• Which are smarter, cats or dogs?
• What is intelligence?
• How cats think
• How dogs think

And again:

"The reason is very simple," he says. "If you have two animals that are roughly at the same evolutionary level and roughly the same [classification]--cats and dogs are both carnivores--the one that has the more complex social structure is almost always brighter."

This is NOT a bias of dogs or cats, it is simply FACT regardless of the animals in question.

And in THIS comparisson dogs have the more complex social structure. EVERY cat expert will agree.

Here is the portion about CATS by a CAT EXPERT.

Some of my favorite reading about the world of the cat is by the late Roger Caras, who wrote more than five dozen books on animals and served as president of the American Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. He also hosted the Westminster Dog Show, so he can't be described as biased.

In A Cat is Watching, Caras says that cats and dogs are probably equally intelligent. (Other experts disagree with this, but I'll get to that later.)

Cats and humans have similar brains. They're so similar, in fact, that more cats have been used for neurological studies than any other animal. The big difference is that human brains have a neocortex and cat brains do not. The neocortex functions as our center for speech and memory associations. Apart from that, however, our more primitive underlying brain structures are just about the same.

Cats' brains are wired to be sensory, Caras writes. So what does that mean? Caras defines a sense as something that alerts a cat to changes in its environment--changes that will ideally be handled so that the cat comes out on top. They rely on whiskers and noses and other tools to feel and perceive the world around them. Most of all, they observe and respond.

Cats are almost mystical in their ability to perceive the world. You've probably heard the folk wisdom that cats always land on their feet, and that they always find their way home. Although "always" is a risky word to use, it is true that cats are graceful. Unlike seeing-eye dogs, cats can't lead a blind person across the street. But they often demonstrate an uncanny talent for navigation.

When I was about six years old, a black stray cat took a liking to our little gray cat, Cloudy. We called him The Yowl, because he would howl love songs outside our windows at night. After a litter of unplanned kittens arrived, my parents took The Yowl to some farmland 20 miles away, crossing a freeway to get there. And yet, a few weeks later, the cat came back. He kept coming back, even after we had Cloudy spayed.

So, how did The Yowl do this? Caras believes cats have sun-based direction finders--solar global positioning systems, if you will. And it's not just that they scan the horizon for the sun's angle--it's also possible, Caras writes, that cats are absorbing data that we can't absorb ourselves and therefore don't know to measure.

So, while some people would say, "If we can't measure it, it doesn't exist," I share Caras's fascination with the unknown. And if some cats are better at using this mysterious information than others, why couldn't that be a form of intelligence?

Guess what? The cat expert DID NOT conclude cats are more intelligent. Reason being is they don't have a more complex social structure.

Quoted: Quoted: Originally posted by SteyrAug Maybe this is why dogs joined human families about 14,000 years ago, while cats were first domesticated 4,500 years ago. Dogs were quicker to figure out how to hop on board the human gravy train. I rest my case. Yup - man has has 10,000 more years to breed the dog into willing servitude. The cat at least still has some independence.

All the dog people seem to think it's about intelligence, which I am not arguing.

It's about behaviour.

Quoted: Quoted: Maybe this is why dogs joined human families about 14,000 years ago, while cats were first domesticated 4,500 years ago. Dogs were quicker to figure out how to hop on board the human gravy train. I rest my case.

Yup, just like humans dogs figured out complex social structures are superior.

As for Dems vs. Repubs.

Dogs work and earn their keep. Cats lay around and eat your food.

I'll leave it up to you to figure out which is the welfare Democrat.

Quoted: Quoted: But cats can and do get trained.  And do understand verbal and other communications.  I love it when people post dog experts opinions and think it is actual research!    Cat's can't communicate and be trained!    This "expert" obviously hasn't bothered to watch the learning channel and any number of other shows that disprove his little theory. And why is it dogs will starve to death in the wild and cats will not? Well AGAIN, if you had done ANY research you would find this was an excerpt of a 4 part study on the topic and I posted the last part which included the final answer. The other parts of the study included data from cat experts. http://encarta.msn.com/column_catsanddogsmain_marthahome/Which_Are_Smarter_Cats_or_Dogs.html • Which are smarter, cats or dogs? • What is intelligence? • How cats think • How dogs think And again: "The reason is very simple," he says. "If you have two animals that are roughly at the same evolutionary level and roughly the same [classification]--cats and dogs are both carnivores--the one that has the more complex social structure is almost always brighter." This is NOT a bias of dogs or cats, it is simply FACT regardless of the animals in question. And in THIS comparisson dogs have the more complex social structure. EVERY cat expert will agree. Here is the portion about CATS by a CAT EXPERT. Some of my favorite reading about the world of the cat is by the late Roger Caras, who wrote more than five dozen books on animals and served as president of the American Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. He also hosted the Westminster Dog Show, so he can't be described as biased. In A Cat is Watching, Caras says that cats and dogs are probably equally intelligent. (Other experts disagree with this, but I'll get to that later.) Cats and humans have similar brains. They're so similar, in fact, that more cats have been used for neurological studies than any other animal. The big difference is that human brains have a neocortex and cat brains do not. The neocortex functions as our center for speech and memory associations. Apart from that, however, our more primitive underlying brain structures are just about the same. Cats' brains are wired to be sensory, Caras writes. So what does that mean? Caras defines a sense as something that alerts a cat to changes in its environment--changes that will ideally be handled so that the cat comes out on top. They rely on whiskers and noses and other tools to feel and perceive the world around them. Most of all, they observe and respond. Cats are almost mystical in their ability to perceive the world. You've probably heard the folk wisdom that cats always land on their feet, and that they always find their way home. Although "always" is a risky word to use, it is true that cats are graceful. Unlike seeing-eye dogs, cats can't lead a blind person across the street. But they often demonstrate an uncanny talent for navigation. When I was about six years old, a black stray cat took a liking to our little gray cat, Cloudy. We called him The Yowl, because he would howl love songs outside our windows at night. After a litter of unplanned kittens arrived, my parents took The Yowl to some farmland 20 miles away, crossing a freeway to get there. And yet, a few weeks later, the cat came back. He kept coming back, even after we had Cloudy spayed. So, how did The Yowl do this? Caras believes cats have sun-based direction finders--solar global positioning systems, if you will. And it's not just that they scan the horizon for the sun's angle--it's also possible, Caras writes, that cats are absorbing data that we can't absorb ourselves and therefore don't know to measure. So, while some people would say, "If we can't measure it, it doesn't exist," I share Caras's fascination with the unknown. And if some cats are better at using this mysterious information than others, why couldn't that be a form of intelligence? Guess what? The cat expert DID NOT conclude cats are more intelligent. Reason being is they don't have a more complex social structure.

I read that before you posted it. It's a fluff opinion piece. Nice try.

Quoted: I read that before you posted it. It's a fluff opinion piece. Nice try.

You think the idea that dogs have a more complex social structure is merely an "opinion"?

Domesticated Pet Fight !!!!

This isnt about intelligence, it's about behaviour. I dont expect cats or dogs to have political platforms.

The fact is, cats are independant and dogs are servants.

Quoted: Quoted: I read that before you posted it. It's a fluff opinion piece. Nice try. You think the idea that dogs have a more complex social structure is merely an "opinion"?

I read that. It was an opinion column. Post the whole thing.

Quoted: This isnt about intelligence, it's about behaviour. I dont expect cats or dogs to have political platforms. The fact is, cats are independant and dogs are servants.

Sheep are about as servile as a cat. Are they independent?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I read that before you posted it. It's a fluff opinion piece. Nice try. You think the idea that dogs have a more complex social structure is merely an "opinion"? I read that. It was an opinion column. Post the whole thing.

I did. It was an opinion column that was based upon the data and conclusions of leading cat and dog experts. It wasn't something as pointless as DigDugs opinions.

And the FINAL conclusion (which was the opinion of the EXPERTS, not the columnist) is that dogs are more intelligent based upon the fact that they created more complex social structures.

It is like a columnist having an "opinion article" on the merits of the AK47 vs the M16 and basing it on the data of Mikhail Kalashnikov and Eugene Stoner and citing "their" conclusions.

Quoted: Quoted: This isnt about intelligence, it's about behaviour. I dont expect cats or dogs to have political platforms. The fact is, cats are independant and dogs are servants. Sheep are about as servile as a cat. Are they independent?

If you compare the behaviour of domestic cats vs domestic dogs, I think cats look like republicans and dogs look like democrats.
I'm not arguing, nor did I bring up, whether cats are smarter than dogs or why. Or, whether dogs are social and cats are not.
Cats are solitary and independant, thats a fact you have stated. Independance is a republican trait.

Dogs ar pack animals, relying on each other. That's socialism.

Quoted: I did. It was an opinion column that was based upon the data and conclusions of leading cat and dog experts. It wasn't something as pointless as DigDugs opinions. And the FINAL conclusion (which was the opinion of the EXPERTS, not the columnist) is that dogs are more intelligent based upon the fact that they created more complex social structures. It is like a columnist having an "opinion article" on the merits of the AK47 vs the M16 and basing it on the data of Mikhail Kalashnikov and Eugene Stoner and citing "their" conclusions.

I'm not an expert of any of this stuff, but it appears to be that the social structures of cats (raising kits in a communal group), females hunting, etc) is not qualitatively different from the social structures you see in dogs - derived from wolves, but diluted by breeding to be better servants for man.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This isnt about intelligence, it's about behaviour. I dont expect cats or dogs to have political platforms. The fact is, cats are independant and dogs are servants. Sheep are about as servile as a cat. Are they independent? If you compare the behaviour of domestic cats vs domestic dogs, I think cats look like republicans and dogs look like democrats. I'm not arguing, nor did I bring up, whether cats are smarter than dogs or why. Or, whether dogs are social and cats are not. Cats are solitary and independant, thats a fact you have stated. Independance is a republican trait. Dogs ar pack animals, relying on each other. That's socialism.

By that gross generalization humans are socialist because we CREATED societies. But that isn't quite the same as "political" socialism is it?

And to further expound on this, all animals that have NEVER been successfully domesticated would be the TRUE independents according to your critieria. So I guess Zebras are the REAL indpendents.

Quoted: Quoted: I did. It was an opinion column that was based upon the data and conclusions of leading cat and dog experts. It wasn't something as pointless as DigDugs opinions. And the FINAL conclusion (which was the opinion of the EXPERTS, not the columnist) is that dogs are more intelligent based upon the fact that they created more complex social structures. It is like a columnist having an "opinion article" on the merits of the AK47 vs the M16 and basing it on the data of Mikhail Kalashnikov and Eugene Stoner and citing "their" conclusions. I'm not an expert of any of this stuff, but it appears to be that the social structures of cats (raising kits in a communal group), females hunting, etc) is not qualitatively different from the social structures you see in dogs - derived from wolves, but diluted by breeding to be better servants for man.

Cats do have a social structure. It's just not as complex as that of dogs. This is because dogs are more pack animals and cats are more independent.

Pack animals have to read signals and anticipate the effect of their actions. It's kind of like being a chess player. If you look at it in human developmental terms, a dog is about equivalent to a human two-year-old, which means it knows about 260 words or signals. The average cat, meanwhile, is more like an 18-month-old, which means it knows about 50 words. The more words a creature knows and the better it's able to communicate, the more it is apt to succeed in a social environment.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This isnt about intelligence, it's about behaviour. I dont expect cats or dogs to have political platforms. The fact is, cats are independant and dogs are servants. Sheep are about as servile as a cat. Are they independent? If you compare the behaviour of domestic cats vs domestic dogs, I think cats look like republicans and dogs look like democrats. I'm not arguing, nor did I bring up, whether cats are smarter than dogs or why. Or, whether dogs are social and cats are not. Cats are solitary and independant, thats a fact you have stated. Independance is a republican trait. Dogs ar pack animals, relying on each other. That's socialism. By that gross generalization humans are socialist because we CREATED societies. But that isn't quite the same as "political" socialism is it? And to further expound on this, all animals that have NEVER been successfully domesticated would be the TRUE independents according to your critieria. So I guess Zebras are the REAL indpendents.

Holy crap Steyr! What is your problem?

It's a simple thread about cats and dogs, not my thesis for PoliSci.

I'd like to think people on the board can realize cats and dogs, oh and zebras, dont run for office or vote.
Lighten up and admit I won.

ETA: Anyone reading my original statement should realize it's a gross generalization.

Come on, it's applying politics to cats and dogs.

Quoted: Lighten up and admit I won.

I think this is the point of the show where we post pics!!

Quoted: photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=40814

Is that your cat??


That's almost as scary as LadyLiberty's avatar!!

I know this has no bearing on cats in general but...

My cat is not only loyal, but territorial.  She growls when unfamiliar people approach the door and will not let ANY ANIMAL, cat or dog, in the house without her approval.  When she detects an animal, she points, like a dog, poised and ready to attack.  

Here's a pic of her



(She's fairly camera shy!)

Quoted: I know this has no bearing on cats in general but... My cat is not only loyal, but territorial.  She growls when unfamiliar people approach the door and will not let ANY ANIMAL, cat or dog, in the house without her approval.  When she detects an animal, she points, like a dog, poised and ready to attack.   Here's a pic of her tinypic.com/axd4ee.jpg (She's fairly camera shy!)

Cute cat!  


So far, cats are leading 3-0 in the picture cateory.


I think that proves cats are smarter than dogs!  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This isnt about intelligence, it's about behaviour. I dont expect cats or dogs to have political platforms. The fact is, cats are independant and dogs are servants. Sheep are about as servile as a cat. Are they independent? If you compare the behaviour of domestic cats vs domestic dogs, I think cats look like republicans and dogs look like democrats. I'm not arguing, nor did I bring up, whether cats are smarter than dogs or why. Or, whether dogs are social and cats are not. Cats are solitary and independant, thats a fact you have stated. Independance is a republican trait. Dogs ar pack animals, relying on each other. That's socialism. By that gross generalization humans are socialist because we CREATED societies. But that isn't quite the same as "political" socialism is it? And to further expound on this, all animals that have NEVER been successfully domesticated would be the TRUE independents according to your critieria. So I guess Zebras are the REAL indpendents. Holy crap Steyr! What is your problem? It's a simple thread about cats and dogs, not my thesis for PoliSci. I'd like to think people on the board can realize cats and dogs, oh and zebras, dont run for office or vote. Lighten up and admit I won. ETA: Anyone reading my original statement should realize it's a gross generalization. Come on, it's applying politics to cats and dogs.

C'mon I used a smiley. You can't think I'm serious with "Zebra's are the real Independents."

Actually, you're ALL wrong.

Dogs are Jerry Lewis.

Cats are Frank Sinatra.

Quoted: Quoted: Cats get eaten by dogs.  Discuss.   Haha, otherwise I agree. Think outside the box grasshoper. Not all cats are those furry little speed bumps you see in the road. There are MUCH bigger ones.

Dog vs. MOUNTAIN LION (big ass cat)


Big ass cat wins. Nuff said.

Quoted: Quoted: photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=40814 Is that your cat?? That's almost as scary as LadyLiberty's avatar!!

No, that's Gustav, the neighbor's cat. Well, I keep telling him he's the neighbor's cat.

My dogs dish is always full, he's smart enough to know when to say when.  I also have a cat who is a pain in the ass sometimes.... anyone want a cath=85%

Quoted: Why is it dog owners have to limit  food?  Can't keep the bowl full because the dog will gorge itself. Cats don't have that problem. Release a cat into the wild, and it will fend for itself. Release a dog into the world, and it will starve to death. Tough guys (and gals) always brag how their 50-80 lb dogs eat 10-20 lb cats.  hat Have you seen the wild cat video of the park rangers releasing it from the back of their pickup truck in Africa?  That cat probably only weighed 30-40 lbs.  hock.gif

Quoted: If you compare the behaviour of domestic cats vs domestic dogs, I think cats look like republicans and dogs look like democrats. Cats are solitary and independant, thats a fact you have stated. Independance is a republican trait. Dogs ar pack animals, relying on each other. That's socialism.

If cats are more like Republicans, then they are Log Cabin republicans.  They are very fancy, don't like to get wet or swim, and generally prance looking fancy.

If independence is a Republican trait why did Republicans form a party?

My dog is no Democrap!