May trade my Kimber tomorrow - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - May trade my Kimber tomorrow (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 8/21/2005 6:18:10 AM EDT

[#1]

Don't hesitate, get the Glock. I'm not against Kimber because I don't have any experience with them, aside from shooting one once.

With the cash you get back from the swap, buy all the fifteen-round mags you can get for the G19. I have a G19 and a G23, and I wouldn't trade them for anything.

Posted: 8/21/2005 6:27:31 AM EDT

[#2]

The only 1911 I'll have in my house if a full size one. I've found the more compact ones to be way too fussy. Heck, often times the full size ones are problematic enough.

Though I own two nice 1911's, I prefer to carry a Glock 17. It's lighter, has over double the magazine capacity and I just trust it more.

Posted: 8/21/2005 6:50:33 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:
1911's are not as reliable as other handguns and never will be. That is a simple fact.
Many a pistolsmith has made a living and retired because of
the 1911. Why are the so many companies making "bullet proof" after markets
parts for the 1911? What is so wrong in the first place?
Any one who says "Not even a hick-up" about their 1911
has to come to grips with reality.

You're quite the "expert" eh? I have plenty that chug right along eating whatever I throw at them, [cept some way out of spec PMC] Mine just must be "magical". But Glocks are PERFECT, right?
If you knew ANYTHING about 1911s, you would know that some of the problems started happening when the specs were tightened up to gain more accuracy. They did, but at the expense of reliability. A true spec 1911 built with quality parts will run and run and run. Accuracy is NOT because of the tightness of the slide to frame fit like so many companys must think, it is the fit of the BBL and it's lockup. I have 60 year old 1911s that still run fine because they were built correctly and with the proper parts. The 1911 is not and never will be as easy to build as the newer gun designs. Part of the new designs were so they could be built cheap, fast and with unskilled labor. The 1911 suffers when it is built with those methods.

And please, dont tell me Glocks, Sigs or ANY other gun always runs flawlessly, because I know better, EVERY gun type out there can, will, and does choke on occasion be it due to dirt, poor maintainance, bad or out of spec ammo, broken parts or improper grip. Thats just the way it is. Some even KABOOM. on occasion, are barred from using lead bullets, and other hokey stuff. But most of the time they do work and work well. Just like a properly built 1911.

While it is true that many companies make a living selling 1911 parts, thats just because of the incredible interest still generated by the old warhorse. And yes indeed, some parts are crappily made, that is not the fault of the gun design, it is a fault of the manufacturer and the almighty dollar. Stamped sheet metal is a hell of a lot cheaper to punch out then a 3D part is to make, that is just common sense. But in 94 years I want to see if a company is still making parts for some of the "wonderguns" of today, and I will want to see a G17 still being produced.

Not to be argumentative, but this "my 1911 is unreliable" discussion comes up all the time, but NEVER in reference to Glocks. What does that tell you? Sure, there are the occasional "my Glock is broken" therads, but the 1911, OTOH, has a *reputation* for being finicky.

Why someone should have to spend $700 and THEN go buy "the right" aftermarket magazines to make it go bang all the time is mystifying.

Glocks are alot of things, but consistently unreliable isn't one of them. They're as consistent in performance out of the box as ANY pistol can possibly be.

Imagine this: I bought the Glock 17, took it home, loaded up the two factory mags and shot a case of 500 rounds of Blazer aluminum cased practice ammo. A couple of squibs in the batch of Blazer, otherwise no FTF, FTE, no stove-pipes, or any problems of any kind.

Bought a G19, and then burned through several more cases of ammo, using different hi-caps (first, second and third generation mags, BTW), with the same results for both pistols. Total rounds = 7000 more or less. Same results each time.

Finicky it ain't. Sure, not as sexy or as cool as the 1911, but also not as much fuss, worry, or doubt about whether these guns will go bang when I pull the trigger. Since the right ammo will make the 9mm as effective as the .45, it makes the most sense for me to stay with what works for me.

YMMV

Posted: 8/21/2005 8:26:34 AM EDT

[#4]

ONLY Glock makes Glocks - nobody builds them up from parts, nobody produces low quality clones.

1911's are like AR-15s - you have a TON of manufacturers doing everything from supertight competition guns to low quality, low cost clones.

Consequently, you WILL see a broader range of performance.

An analogy? Wonder why Apples seem to be more stable and work better than PCs? Simple - one manufacturer, one company controlling everything.

I'll give Glock it's kudos - it's a great, mid level machine. But you are stuck with that, pretty much, for better or worse.

The 1911 is a platform - one that can be customized and tuned to your needs.

Posted: 8/21/2005 8:53:00 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
ONLY Glock makes Glocks - nobody builds them up from parts, nobody produces low quality clones.

1911's are like AR-15s - you have a TON of manufacturers doing everything from supertight competition guns to low quality, low cost clones.

Consequently, you WILL see a broader range of performance.

An analogy? Wonder why Apples seem to be more stable and work better than PCs? Simple - one manufacturer, one company controlling everything.

I'll give Glock it's kudos - it's a great, mid level machine. But you are stuck with that, pretty much, for better or worse.

The 1911 is a platform - one that can be customized and tuned to your needs.

+1 on that convenient tidbit that people seem to always forget.

SickMAK90, why don't you get together with one of your hometown ARFCOMers and have him/her shoot it or borrow some Wilson Combat 47Ds to try?

Posted: 8/21/2005 9:03:43 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
ONLY Glock makes Glocks - nobody builds them up from parts, nobody produces low quality clones.

1911's are like AR-15s - you have a TON of manufacturers doing everything from supertight competition guns to low quality, low cost clones.

Consequently, you WILL see a broader range of performance.

An analogy? Wonder why Apples seem to be more stable and work better than PCs? Simple - one manufacturer, one company controlling everything.

I'll give Glock it's kudos - it's a great, mid level machine. But you are stuck with that, pretty much, for better or worse.

The 1911 is a platform - one that can be customized and tuned to your needs.

Thank you, I doubt if RIA, AO, and other low end makers made Glocks or parts that Glock would fare much better. I think Glocks are very reliable guns and I'd bet my life on one anytime. I just do not like the grip angle at all and I like the safety system on a 1911 better.

Posted: 8/21/2005 9:17:11 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1911's are not as reliable as other handguns and never will be. That is a simple fact.
Many a pistolsmith has made a living and retired because of
the 1911. Why are the so many companies making "bullet proof" after markets
parts for the 1911? What is so wrong in the first place?
Any one who says "Not even a hick-up" about their 1911
has to come to grips with reality.

You're quite the "expert" eh? I have plenty that chug right along eating whatever I throw at them, [cept some way out of spec PMC] Mine just must be "magical". But Glocks are PERFECT, right?
If you knew ANYTHING about 1911s, you would know that some of the problems started happening when the specs were tightened up to gain more accuracy. They did, but at the expense of reliability. A true spec 1911 built with quality parts will run and run and run. Accuracy is NOT because of the tightness of the slide to frame fit like so many companys must think, it is the fit of the BBL and it's lockup. I have 60 year old 1911s that still run fine because they were built correctly and with the proper parts. The 1911 is not and never will be as easy to build as the newer gun designs. Part of the new designs were so they could be built cheap, fast and with unskilled labor. The 1911 suffers when it is built with those methods.

And please, dont tell me Glocks, Sigs or ANY other gun always runs flawlessly, because I know better, EVERY gun type out there can, will, and does choke on occasion be it due to dirt, poor maintainance, bad or out of spec ammo, broken parts or improper grip. Thats just the way it is. Some even KABOOM. on occasion, are barred from using lead bullets, and other hokey stuff. But most of the time they do work and work well. Just like a properly built 1911.

While it is true that many companies make a living selling 1911 parts, thats just because of the incredible interest still generated by the old warhorse. And yes indeed, some parts are crappily made, that is not the fault of the gun design, it is a fault of the manufacturer and the almighty dollar. Stamped sheet metal is a hell of a lot cheaper to punch out then a 3D part is to make, that is just common sense. But in 94 years I want to see if a company is still making parts for some of the "wonderguns" of today, and I will want to see a G17 still being produced.

Not to be argumentative, but this "my 1911 is unreliable" discussion comes up all the time, but NEVER in reference to Glocks. What does that tell you? Sure, there are the occasional "my Glock is broken" therads, but the 1911, OTOH, has a *reputation* for being finicky.

Why someone should have to spend $700 and THEN go buy "the right" aftermarket magazines to make it go bang all the time is mystifying.

Glocks are alot of things, but consistently unreliable isn't one of them. They're as consistent in performance out of the box as ANY pistol can possibly be.

Imagine this: I bought the Glock 17, took it home, loaded up the two factory mags and shot a case of 500 rounds of Blazer aluminum cased practice ammo. A couple of squibs in the batch of Blazer, otherwise no FTF, FTE, no stove-pipes, or any problems of any kind.

Bought a G19, and then burned through several more cases of ammo, using different hi-caps (first, second and third generation mags, BTW), with the same results for both pistols. Total rounds = 7000 more or less. Same results each time.

Finicky it ain't. Sure, not as sexy or as cool as the 1911, but also not as much fuss, worry, or doubt about whether these guns will go bang when I pull the trigger. Since the right ammo will make the 9mm as effective as the .45, it makes the most sense for me to stay with what works for me.

YMMV

The funny thing is 1911 fans DON'T bring up anywhere the malarky that Glockers do. And the Glocks run forever without breaking is a laugh as I remember "recalls" that Glock has done in the past because of "Issues". Just a safety thing, no? I'm pretty honest with the 1911 design, done correctly, it is excellent, done poorly, with improper matls., and non spec parts it can be VERY sad indeed. Not to mention the "expert" first time monkey fisted "smiths" that are out there EVERYWHERE. Owner gets it back and what do you know, its unreliable. I think one of Glocks STRONG points is it's inability to be messed with too much, cept for sights and maybe a non poly BBL. Quite possibly, that has much to do with the reliability factor. As far as ammo goes, great 9mm ammo out there, but there is BETTER .45 ammo. And it never gets smaller then .45.

Posted: 8/21/2005 9:19:25 AM EDT

[#8]

Take a look at the slide stop where it engages the magazine. Odds are it is just a bit long a few passes with a file will probably clear it up. Kimbers are very nice pistols but they sometimes require a bit of tweaking. I have a TLE that had the same problem as yours and didn't want to feed reliably. After taking just a bit off the slide stop and poolishing the breach face and feed ramp it runs perfectly with any kind of ammo. A G19 and 200 for your gun is a good swap, but if you can fix the problem for 10 minutes of work and at worst a 10 dollar slide stop (if you file to much off) then why not have the gun you wanted in the first place. A lot of people have a hard time shooting a compact 1911 as accuratly as they'd like it just takes practice, I doubt the gun is inherintly inaccurate. It does suck to buy a new pistol, pay as much as you did for a Kimber, and have to fix it. I was plenty pissed when I got on the phone with Kimber and they suggested that I polish the breech and feedramp on my new Kimber. Now that it is fixed, I love the gun and wouldn't trade it for any other. Wouldn't you be happier to have the Kimber running good, then buy a used G19 for 350 and have 2 great pistols? Just my .02.

Posted: 8/21/2005 9:22:42 AM EDT

[#9]

Common Kimber problem(along with others)

You need to get a new slide stop or trim down the point on the one you have.

You should feel lucky that's the only problem you have, it can be much worse.

Posted: 8/21/2005 9:25:14 AM EDT

[#10]

Give Kimber a chance to get it right...and call them before you send it back. Do not let the dealer send it without YOU giving them a call! All companies tend to try a bit harder (OK...generally) for an individual owner than for a dealer, in my experience, if a gun has a problem. There is certainly nothing wrong with the Glock, but my guess is that you will be beating your head against the wall one of these days if you dump the Kimber without a try at letting them fix it for you.

Posted: 8/21/2005 9:27:08 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
1911's are not as reliable as other handguns and never will be. That is a simple fact.
Many a pistolsmith has made a living and retired because of
the 1911. Why are the so many companies making "bullet proof" after markets
parts for the 1911? What is so wrong in the first place?
Any one who says "Not even a hick-up" about their 1911
has to come to grips with reality.

A Kimber is less reliable than a Lorcin. Who woulda thunk?

I suppose that's why people are still buying 1911s after they have been on the market for 94 years - less reliability.

Some people cannot give up nostalgia and the hardheadness and are a
glutton for punishment.
They have OCD and no control over their own lives
so they think they can "make a 1911 work" 100%.
And when it fails they think that it must be normal
but some know that it is not. SO,
Then they get a GLOCK and all is well without
the years of expensive psychological treatment.

Posted: 8/21/2005 9:31:09 AM EDT

[#12]

there is one gun in my house that will NEVER leave. that is my kimber gold match. Glocks ahve come and gone along with just about everything else.

Posted: 8/21/2005 9:32:29 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1911's are not as reliable as other handguns and never will be. That is a simple fact.
Many a pistolsmith has made a living and retired because of
the 1911. Why are the so many companies making "bullet proof" after markets
parts for the 1911? What is so wrong in the first place?
Any one who says "Not even a hick-up" about their 1911
has to come to grips with reality.

A Kimber is less reliable than a Lorcin. Who woulda thunk?

I suppose that's why people are still buying 1911s after they have been on the market for 94 years - less reliability.

Some people cannot give up nostalgia and the hardheadness and are a
glutton for punishment.
They have OCD and no control over their own lives
so they think they can "make a 1911 work" 100%.
And when it fails they think that it must be normal
but some know that it is not. SO,
Then they get a GLOCK and all is well without
the years of expensive psychological treatment.

that is until they explode in your hand

Posted: 8/21/2005 9:34:07 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
1911's are not as reliable as other handguns and never will be. That is a simple fact.
Many a pistolsmith has made a living and retired because of
the 1911. Why are the so many companies making "bullet proof" after markets
parts for the 1911? What is so wrong in the first place?
Any one who says "Not even a hick-up" about their 1911
has to come to grips with reality.

You're quite the "expert" eh? I have plenty that chug right along eating whatever I throw at them, [cept some way out of spec PMC] Mine just must be "magical". But Glocks are PERFECT, right? Near enough.
If you knew ANYTHING about 1911s, you would know that some of the problems started happening when the specs were tightened up to gain more accuracy. They did, but at the expense of reliability. A true spec 1911 built with quality parts will run and run and run. Accuracy is NOT because of the tightness of the slide to frame fit like so many companys must think, it is the fit of the BBL and it's lockup. I have 60 year old 1911s that still run fine because they were built correctly and with the proper parts. The 1911 is not and never will be as easy to build as the newer gun designs. Part of the new designs were so they could be built cheap, fast and with unskilled labor. The 1911 suffers when it is built with those methods.

And please, dont tell me Glocks, Sigs or ANY other gun always runs flawlessly, because I know better, EVERY gun type out there can, will, and does choke on occasion be it due to dirt, poor maintainance, bad or out of spec ammo, broken parts or improper grip. Thats just the way it is. Some even KABOOM. on occasion, are barred from using lead bullets, and other hokey stuff. But most of the time they do work and work well. Just like a properly built 1911.

While it is true that many companies make a living selling 1911 parts, thats just because of the incredible interest still generated by the old warhorse. And yes indeed, some parts are crappily made, that is not the fault of the gun design, it is a fault of the manufacturer and the almighty dollar. Stamped sheet metal is a hell of a lot cheaper to punch out then a 3D part is to make, that is just common sense. But in 94 years I want to see if a company is still making parts for some of the "wonderguns" of today, and I will want to see a G17 still being produced.

Could you imagine if everyone that bought a Toyota had to
do the equivelent of what is needed to get most 1911's
to run, to get their Toyota to run, Toyota would be out of business.

Posted: 8/21/2005 9:36:26 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1911's are not as reliable as other handguns and never will be. That is a simple fact.
Many a pistolsmith has made a living and retired because of
the 1911. Why are the so many companies making "bullet proof" after markets
parts for the 1911? What is so wrong in the first place?
Any one who says "Not even a hick-up" about their 1911
has to come to grips with reality.

You're quite the "expert" eh? I have plenty that chug right along eating whatever I throw at them, [cept some way out of spec PMC] Mine just must be "magical". But Glocks are PERFECT, right? Near enough.
If you knew ANYTHING about 1911s, you would know that some of the problems started happening when the specs were tightened up to gain more accuracy. They did, but at the expense of reliability. A true spec 1911 built with quality parts will run and run and run. Accuracy is NOT because of the tightness of the slide to frame fit like so many companys must think, it is the fit of the BBL and it's lockup. I have 60 year old 1911s that still run fine because they were built correctly and with the proper parts. The 1911 is not and never will be as easy to build as the newer gun designs. Part of the new designs were so they could be built cheap, fast and with unskilled labor. The 1911 suffers when it is built with those methods.

And please, dont tell me Glocks, Sigs or ANY other gun always runs flawlessly, because I know better, EVERY gun type out there can, will, and does choke on occasion be it due to dirt, poor maintainance, bad or out of spec ammo, broken parts or improper grip. Thats just the way it is. Some even KABOOM. on occasion, are barred from using lead bullets, and other hokey stuff. But most of the time they do work and work well. Just like a properly built 1911.

While it is true that many companies make a living selling 1911 parts, thats just because of the incredible interest still generated by the old warhorse. And yes indeed, some parts are crappily made, that is not the fault of the gun design, it is a fault of the manufacturer and the almighty dollar. Stamped sheet metal is a hell of a lot cheaper to punch out then a 3D part is to make, that is just common sense. But in 94 years I want to see if a company is still making parts for some of the "wonderguns" of today, and I will want to see a G17 still being produced.

Could you imagine if everyone that bought a Toyota had to
do the equivelent of what is needed to get most 1911's
to run, to get their Toyota to run, Toyota would be out of business.

thats funny. i've owned around 9 or 10 different 1911's over the years. NONE of them required work to shoot 100% out of the box. You either have not owned one since 1980 or never have.

mike

Posted: 8/21/2005 9:45:29 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1911's are not as reliable as other handguns and never will be. That is a simple fact.
Many a pistolsmith has made a living and retired because of
the 1911. Why are the so many companies making "bullet proof" after markets
parts for the 1911? What is so wrong in the first place?
Any one who says "Not even a hick-up" about their 1911
has to come to grips with reality.

You're quite the "expert" eh? I have plenty that chug right along eating whatever I throw at them, [cept some way out of spec PMC] Mine just must be "magical". But Glocks are PERFECT, right? Near enough.
If you knew ANYTHING about 1911s, you would know that some of the problems started happening when the specs were tightened up to gain more accuracy. They did, but at the expense of reliability. A true spec 1911 built with quality parts will run and run and run. Accuracy is NOT because of the tightness of the slide to frame fit like so many companys must think, it is the fit of the BBL and it's lockup. I have 60 year old 1911s that still run fine because they were built correctly and with the proper parts. The 1911 is not and never will be as easy to build as the newer gun designs. Part of the new designs were so they could be built cheap, fast and with unskilled labor. The 1911 suffers when it is built with those methods.

And please, dont tell me Glocks, Sigs or ANY other gun always runs flawlessly, because I know better, EVERY gun type out there can, will, and does choke on occasion be it due to dirt, poor maintainance, bad or out of spec ammo, broken parts or improper grip. Thats just the way it is. Some even KABOOM. on occasion, are barred from using lead bullets, and other hokey stuff. But most of the time they do work and work well. Just like a properly built 1911.

While it is true that many companies make a living selling 1911 parts, thats just because of the incredible interest still generated by the old warhorse. And yes indeed, some parts are crappily made, that is not the fault of the gun design, it is a fault of the manufacturer and the almighty dollar. Stamped sheet metal is a hell of a lot cheaper to punch out then a 3D part is to make, that is just common sense. But in 94 years I want to see if a company is still making parts for some of the "wonderguns" of today, and I will want to see a G17 still being produced.

Could you imagine if everyone that bought a Toyota had to
do the equivelent of what is needed to get most 1911's
to run, to get their Toyota to run, Toyota would be out of business.

thats funny. i've owned around 9 or 10 different 1911's over the years. NONE of them required work to shoot 100% out of the box. You either have not owned one since 1980 or never have.

mike

I have been full circle with several 1911's and actually still have one
a Colt Delta Elite 10mm that works pretty well but not as well
as "other" handguns I own. Glad all yours work good.

Posted: 8/21/2005 3:22:33 PM EDT

[#17]

Reason I want the glock is because its simple, reliable, and it will go bang everytime with no upgrades.

If I wanted a match gun or target gun I definetly wouldn't get a Glock. A nice 1911 full size would be in the works. But for a carry gun I'd like to have something like a glock. Something I never have to worry about.

Posted: 8/21/2005 3:27:00 PM EDT

[#18]

Are you sure you aren't using a high hold and your thumb is hitting the slide stop? A friend of mines SA 1911 was doing the same thing. I shot it and it was fine. He shot it again and I was standing on the left side of him. I noticed his left thumb was riding the slide stop up.
After I pointed it out and he adjusted his grip, the problem stopped.

Posted: 8/21/2005 3:38:06 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Kimbers are jam-o-matics.....

Mine is/was, even with 47D's. External extractors are BAD.

Posted: 8/21/2005 4:44:34 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1911's are not as reliable as other handguns and never will be. That is a simple fact.
Many a pistolsmith has made a living and retired because of
the 1911. Why are the so many companies making "bullet proof" after markets
parts for the 1911? What is so wrong in the first place?
Any one who says "Not even a hick-up" about their 1911
has to come to grips with reality.

You're quite the "expert" eh? I have plenty that chug right along eating whatever I throw at them, [cept some way out of spec PMC] Mine just must be "magical". But Glocks are PERFECT, right?
If you knew ANYTHING about 1911s, you would know that some of the problems started happening when the specs were tightened up to gain more accuracy. They did, but at the expense of reliability. A true spec 1911 built with quality parts will run and run and run. Accuracy is NOT because of the tightness of the slide to frame fit like so many companys must think, it is the fit of the BBL and it's lockup. I have 60 year old 1911s that still run fine because they were built correctly and with the proper parts. The 1911 is not and never will be as easy to build as the newer gun designs. Part of the new designs were so they could be built cheap, fast and with unskilled labor. The 1911 suffers when it is built with those methods.

And please, dont tell me Glocks, Sigs or ANY other gun always runs flawlessly, because I know better, EVERY gun type out there can, will, and does choke on occasion be it due to dirt, poor maintainance, bad or out of spec ammo, broken parts or improper grip. Thats just the way it is. Some even KABOOM. on occasion, are barred from using lead bullets, and other hokey stuff. But most of the time they do work and work well. Just like a properly built 1911.

While it is true that many companies make a living selling 1911 parts, thats just because of the incredible interest still generated by the old warhorse. And yes indeed, some parts are crappily made, that is not the fault of the gun design, it is a fault of the manufacturer and the almighty dollar. Stamped sheet metal is a hell of a lot cheaper to punch out then a 3D part is to make, that is just common sense. But in 94 years I want to see if a company is still making parts for some of the "wonderguns" of today, and I will want to see a G17 still being produced.

Not to be argumentative, but this "my 1911 is unreliable" discussion comes up all the time, but NEVER in reference to Glocks. What does that tell you? Sure, there are the occasional "my Glock is broken" therads, but the 1911, OTOH, has a *reputation* for being finicky.

Why someone should have to spend $700 and THEN go buy "the right" aftermarket magazines to make it go bang all the time is mystifying.

Glocks are alot of things, but consistently unreliable isn't one of them. They're as consistent in performance out of the box as ANY pistol can possibly be.

Imagine this: I bought the Glock 17, took it home, loaded up the two factory mags and shot a case of 500 rounds of Blazer aluminum cased practice ammo. A couple of squibs in the batch of Blazer, otherwise no FTF, FTE, no stove-pipes, or any problems of any kind.

Bought a G19, and then burned through several more cases of ammo, using different hi-caps (first, second and third generation mags, BTW), with the same results for both pistols. Total rounds = 7000 more or less. Same results each time.

Finicky it ain't. Sure, not as sexy or as cool as the 1911, but also not as much fuss, worry, or doubt about whether these guns will go bang when I pull the trigger. Since the right ammo will make the 9mm as effective as the .45, it makes the most sense for me to stay with what works for me.

YMMV

I was at the gun store today, talking with the clerk while he packed up some guns for warranty repairs at the factory. One Glock, One Para-Ord. Glocks are NOT infalible.

1911s didn't have a reputation for unreliability until everyone and his brother sat down in their shop..um, kitchen...and started trying to improve on the old warhorse with no idea WTF they were doing. AJohnston has a semi production 1911 that he has fired 35,000 times. Nothing broke, it didn't malfunction, and he just replaced some springs from time to time. The original military test of the 1911 was 6,000 rounds fired rapid fire, without failure. Of course back then there were no MIM parts, things were turned from tool steel and actual gunsmiths did the work--not some dude with a series 80 and a Brownells catalog (no offense to AJohnston, who technically meets this profile, but knows WTF he's doing).

Posted: 8/21/2005 5:51:32 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1911's are not as reliable as other handguns and never will be. That is a simple fact.
Many a pistolsmith has made a living and retired because of
the 1911. Why are the so many companies making "bullet proof" after markets
parts for the 1911? What is so wrong in the first place?
Any one who says "Not even a hick-up" about their 1911
has to come to grips with reality.

You're quite the "expert" eh? I have plenty that chug right along eating whatever I throw at them, [cept some way out of spec PMC] Mine just must be "magical". But Glocks are PERFECT, right?
If you knew ANYTHING about 1911s, you would know that some of the problems started happening when the specs were tightened up to gain more accuracy. They did, but at the expense of reliability. A true spec 1911 built with quality parts will run and run and run. Accuracy is NOT because of the tightness of the slide to frame fit like so many companys must think, it is the fit of the BBL and it's lockup. I have 60 year old 1911s that still run fine because they were built correctly and with the proper parts. The 1911 is not and never will be as easy to build as the newer gun designs. Part of the new designs were so they could be built cheap, fast and with unskilled labor. The 1911 suffers when it is built with those methods.

And please, dont tell me Glocks, Sigs or ANY other gun always runs flawlessly, because I know better, EVERY gun type out there can, will, and does choke on occasion be it due to dirt, poor maintainance, bad or out of spec ammo, broken parts or improper grip. Thats just the way it is. Some even KABOOM. on occasion, are barred from using lead bullets, and other hokey stuff. But most of the time they do work and work well. Just like a properly built 1911.

While it is true that many companies make a living selling 1911 parts, thats just because of the incredible interest still generated by the old warhorse. And yes indeed, some parts are crappily made, that is not the fault of the gun design, it is a fault of the manufacturer and the almighty dollar. Stamped sheet metal is a hell of a lot cheaper to punch out then a 3D part is to make, that is just common sense. But in 94 years I want to see if a company is still making parts for some of the "wonderguns" of today, and I will want to see a G17 still being produced.

Not to be argumentative, but this "my 1911 is unreliable" discussion comes up all the time, but NEVER in reference to Glocks. What does that tell you? Sure, there are the occasional "my Glock is broken" therads, but the 1911, OTOH, has a *reputation* for being finicky.

Why someone should have to spend $700 and THEN go buy "the right" aftermarket magazines to make it go bang all the time is mystifying.

Glocks are alot of things, but consistently unreliable isn't one of them. They're as consistent in performance out of the box as ANY pistol can possibly be.

Imagine this: I bought the Glock 17, took it home, loaded up the two factory mags and shot a case of 500 rounds of Blazer aluminum cased practice ammo. A couple of squibs in the batch of Blazer, otherwise no FTF, FTE, no stove-pipes, or any problems of any kind.

Bought a G19, and then burned through several more cases of ammo, using different hi-caps (first, second and third generation mags, BTW), with the same results for both pistols. Total rounds = 7000 more or less. Same results each time.

Finicky it ain't. Sure, not as sexy or as cool as the 1911, but also not as much fuss, worry, or doubt about whether these guns will go bang when I pull the trigger. Since the right ammo will make the 9mm as effective as the .45, it makes the most sense for me to stay with what works for me.

YMMV

Imagine this, my buddy bought a glock 21, has had it for about 4 years and can't get through a box of ammo without it jamming four or five times. I bought a Kimber and put 800 rounds through it without cleaning and not a hitch. My Kimber was used when I bought it and I now have about 7500 rounds(with regular cleaning) through it. It will jam after about 150 rounds of lead semiwadcutters without cleaning when the lead lube and fouling builds up enough, but it has never jammed with any jacketed bullets no matter how filthy it is. I've seen Glock 19s and Glock 17s jam, and break extractors, it doesn't mean all Glocks suck, but I'll put my money on what I've seen work. You knowing of one or two 1911s that didn't work doesn't mean they all won't run either.

Posted: 8/21/2005 6:19:31 PM EDT

[#22]

I didn't say that. I shot a buddies brand new glock 19. I personally put 200 rounds through it. He put another 200. In the same day. 400 rounds no malfunctions of any type.

I bought my Kimber. Had 2 malfunction in the first 50 rounds. And so on and so forth.

People say Taurus can't make a good semi-auto. My 1988 model PT99 with at least 5k through it has never malfunctioned. Only magazines I have used are 1988 model 15round factory magazines. Spring is getting worn and the last round hits you in the face. Other than that its been a hell of a pistol.

Posted: 8/21/2005 6:27:13 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Try new magazines. Get a couple of Wilson #47D mags to see if the problem continues.

Plus infinity!

Go Wilson and you will thank us for it.

BigDozer66

Posted: 8/21/2005 6:43:14 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I didn't say that. I shot a buddies brand new glock 19. I personally put 200 rounds through it. He put another 200. In the same day. 400 rounds no malfunctions of any type.

I bought my Kimber. Had 2 malfunction in the first 50 rounds. And so on and so forth.

People say Taurus can't make a good semi-auto. My 1988 model PT99 with at least 5k through it has never malfunctioned. Only magazines I have used are 1988 model 15round factory magazines. Spring is getting worn and the last round hits you in the face. Other than that its been a hell of a pistol.

Yea, I can't say I've seen too many problems with Taurus either. Their machining isn't the greatest but the few I've been around seem to work. You pays your money you takes your chance, on just about all of them

edited for spelling

Posted: 8/21/2005 7:02:17 PM EDT

[#25]

How many rounds thru it? Mine did not run well until I put 400 rounds thru it. Now it is a dream to shoot. Are you oiling it? Try some molly D. These guns have a tight tollerance.... Put a couple of hundred rounds thru it at one time. I get great groups, but at first they were a little spread out because I needed to aquiant myself with the pistols length.

Posted: 8/21/2005 7:52:30 PM EDT

[#26]

Don't blame you a bit.

3 Kimbers in my safe, and none of them worked well and required alot of work and fuss to get to what I'd call reliable....and only then with certain ammo.

The Glock will be, I'm sure, a more hearty gun.

Go for it.

Posted: 8/21/2005 8:05:22 PM EDT

[#27]

I'll admit a Glock is not in the same class. A different gun completely. Since I got used to the Kimber Glocks feel strange now. But I can live with it.

Posted: 8/22/2005 12:01:41 PM EDT

[#28]

Well today I went to shop. Walked out with a Glock 19 and 250$. Shot the remaining 50 rounds of 9mm WWB I had with no malfunctions. Its already more reliable than the Kimber

Posted: 8/22/2005 12:13:05 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Not to be argumentative, but this "my 1911 is unreliable" discussion comes up all the time, but NEVER in reference to Glocks. What does that tell you? Sure, there are the occasional "my Glock is broken" therads, but the 1911, OTOH, has a *reputation* for being finicky.

Kinda like the reputation that all guns are bad, huh? Enough people keep repeating the BS and the less educated are gonna believe.

Some day it may dawn on folks that it's usualy the operator more often than the tool.

Posted: 8/22/2005 12:34:06 PM EDT

[#30]

For what its worth, I have a Kimber and a Glock. The Kimber (Raptor II) had numerous FTE problems, called Kimber up and they said to replace the extractor which they supplied free of charge. Replaced the extractor and ran 500 rds through it and now it is as sweet as butter. I love 1911's and Glocks but damn 1911's are a lot better looking! Kimbers customer service is very good so before you throw away a hot 1911 get with them and see if they can fix it for ya. Once you have a sweet 1911 that runs flawlessly you will be hooked I guarantee it and Kimber does make a good product. IMHO

Posted: 8/22/2005 4:44:13 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Not to be argumentative, but this "my 1911 is unreliable" discussion comes up all the time, but NEVER in reference to Glocks. What does that tell you? Sure, there are the occasional "my Glock is broken" therads, but the 1911, OTOH, has a *reputation* for being finicky.

Kinda like the reputation that all guns are bad, huh? Enough people keep repeating the BS and the less educated are gonna believe.

Some day it may dawn on folks that it's usualy the operator more often than the tool.

Heh heh heh - he said "tool"!

You gotta admit, 1911 are definitely more of a "high maintenance" kind of gun. For some, it's just not worth it.

They are some of the nicest looking handguns around, that's for sure.

Posted: 8/22/2005 5:37:32 PM EDT

[#32]

Good man!

Posted: 8/22/2005 5:50:55 PM EDT

[#33]

The Kimber was definetly prettier. But unless the bad guy is into gun porn that won't help if I have to pull it on someone.

For a carry gun I want a reliable gun I can treat like shit and not worry about.

Besides I didn't lose a dime on this deal. So I still plan on getting a nice full size 1911 in the future. Just no more small 1911's.

Posted: 9/5/2005 5:31:13 PM EDT

[#34]

My brother and I both bought kimber ultra ten II's ($750 guns) they both had failure to feed problems, used a gunsmith, fired 600 rounds, still the same problems, sent back to kimber, they replaced the extractors on both pistols, they are great looking, light, cool pistols, just one thing THEY WONT SHOOT !!!!!! I say fuck Kimber, I have bought cheap Browning HIPower clones that were crude looking, but they shot every time I pulled the trigger. The fact that kimber no longer makes these pistols dosen't make me feel any better about the $1500 that my brother and I spent on these "top of the line" Kimbers that don't shoot. My Springfield shoots, my browning shoots, my beretta shoots. Fuck Kimber.

Posted: 9/5/2005 5:39:46 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Fuck Kimber.

Amen. I even have a 17 year old PT99 that has never not fired. Mag springs are so weak that the last right hits you in the face everytime...but it still shoots.

I have probably put 800 rounds through the glock now. Nothing but shooting bliss.

Posted: 9/5/2005 5:41:13 PM EDT

[#36]

USP for teh win!

Posted: 9/5/2005 6:38:09 PM EDT

[#37]

tag

Posted: 9/6/2005 6:39:10 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
1911's are not as reliable as other handguns and never will be. That is a simple fact.
Many a pistolsmith has made a living and retired because of
the 1911. Why are the so many companies making "bullet proof" after markets
parts for the 1911? What is so wrong in the first place?
Any one who says "Not even a hick-up" about their 1911
has to come to grips with reality.

Just curious - do you have statistics to support that? I would be interested to read the database where you came to this conclusion.

Posted: 9/6/2005 7:05:27 AM EDT

[#39]

Family has 4 kimbers at the moment. All have functioned flawlessly out of the box, digesting everything we have fed them with one exception. My father had wrist surgery, so I loaded up some mouse loads - as I kept weekening the load, eventually it would not cycle (but come on, that was expected, got down to about 165 grain at 700 fps though) Have had friends who had glocks that did not always go bang when they pulled the trigger.

Moral - YMMV.

Posted: 9/6/2005 7:31:48 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Well today I went to shop. Walked out with a Glock 19 and 250$. Shot the remaining 50 rounds of 9mm WWB I had with no malfunctions. Its already more reliable than the Kimber

img375.imageshack.us/img375/2791/glock13bm.th.jpg

img375.imageshack.us/img375/2010/glock2un.th.jpg

Good decision. The Glock 19 is also my carry gun of choice. I just like the simple reliability. Pull the trigger ---> goes bang. Every time.

I just took a Defensive Edge course with mine a couple of weeks ago and put my 19 through it's paces. It was brand new and I only had about 100 rounds of WWB through it before taking the class. Shot another 300-400 rounds of WWB through it during the class and so far it's run flawlessly. I know some complain of the grip angle on the Glock, but Sully showed me a really nice way to grip the gun that made a HUGE difference in how well I can shoot. My grip is much more stable and I am much more consistent.

It's a great gun. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Posted: 9/6/2005 11:52:28 AM EDT

[#41]

You never would have trusted that gun even if you got it running, you did good.

Posted: 9/6/2005 11:59:58 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Try new magazines. Get a couple of Wilson #47D mags to see if the problem continues.

Wilsons or Chip McCormick's.....I use CMC's in my Kimber and they're perfect.

Can't go wrong with either mag...

HH

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - May trade my Kimber tomorrow (Page 2 of 2)

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