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Link Posted: 8/17/2005 12:22:59 AM EDT
[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
All in favor of invading Mexico, bitch-slapping Fox on tv, and mining the borders after looting the country of everything of value, raise your hand.



+1, Except for the looting part.....I cant think of a damn thing Mexico has that I would want.


quote]

TEQUILA AND WOMEN  ....AND MAYBE A BEACH SIDE CONDO OR 2
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 12:23:39 AM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:
when is TEXAS gonna follow suit



Don't know if Perry will buck bush and do the right thing
maybe we should give him a call..........
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 12:26:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Two words   "donkey" "show"


Seriously illegals coming over the border have bent this country over and threw down like it was a donkey show and we were the woman.  It sickens me.  We have border patrol agents here in Arkansas. IIRC a lady BP officer here shot and killed an illegal a few years back.  I HOPE SHE GOT A MEDAL!  And for any of you liberal pieces of shit that want to say this country was built on immigration and all that jazz, your right, but as soon as restrictions were placed on it and processes put in place, we fell into those processess and restrictions because we are law abiding for the most part.  Illegals are criminals the instant they cross the border and should be treated as such.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 12:30:43 AM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
when is TEXAS gonna follow suit



Don't know if Perry will buck bush and do the right thing
maybe we should give him a call..........



My guess is he will tow the political line....but i guess its worth a shot in tryin to get some people to write to the capital
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 12:35:54 AM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:


"Instead of pointing fingers, let's have proposals; instead of each side working by itself, let's work together; only like this will we be able to win," Fox said.



That sounds like a winning plan. Perhaps a committe should be established to set up a structure capable of creating a process to review proposals that will look at various initiatives in implementing guideines capable of meeting a set of functions to address this problem.




NO SHIT!
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:10:20 AM EDT
[#6]
Twice baked potatoes?

It's great that NM and AZ are trying to do something.  Hopefully it will be effective, and then whatever they do with this money will become a permanent thing(as opposed to saying "well, we spent $1.5mil and and now we're done).

I was doing some internet searching for a place to go hiking earlier this summer when I was in Yuma, and I found what looked like a GREAT hike, near Jacumba, right at the border.  But two border patrol agents in that immediate area were shot at about a week before that, so I had to pass on that one.  If I don't even want to go hiking by the border, I can't imagine what it must be like to live there!


As for what Mexico has "of value," have you ever watched the spanish channels? I've seen a few things I'd "value" alright.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:56:07 AM EDT
[#7]
New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, and Arizona governor Janet Napolitano go to La Raza get togethers.  This is strictly political on their part.  
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:32:04 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, and Arizona governor Janet Napolitano go to La Raza get togethers.  This is strictly political on their part.  



A huge +1


Neither one of them care about the illegal alien problem, it's pure political bullshit. Janet Napoli-Reno has been doing everything in her power to stop Prop200 and as mentioned above both have kissed ass to the La Raza  fuckers. These liberals are just trying to exploit the one weakness in this current Republican administration that has the base all pissed off, and that happens to be illegal alien roaches invading our country.

Richardson has even told illegal aliens at a La Raza rally that illegal aliens "Will be safe here" refering to New Mexico, has prevented his local law enforcement from cooperating wtih the INS or Border Patrol, given illegals drivers licenses... He's full of shit.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:30:20 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, and Arizona governor Janet Napolitano go to La Raza get togethers.  This is strictly political on their part.  



A huge +1


Neither one of them care about the illegal alien problem, it's pure political bullshit. Janet Napoli-Reno has been doing everything in her power to stop Prop200 and as mentioned above both have kissed ass to the La Raza  fuckers. These liberals are just trying to exploit the one weakness in this current Republican administration that has the base all pissed off, and that happens to be illegal alien roaches invading our country.

Richardson has even told illegal aliens at a La Raza rally that illegal aliens "Will be safe here" refering to New Mexico, has prevented his local law enforcement from cooperating wtih the INS or Border Patrol, given illegals drivers licenses... He's full of shit.



They have let the situation go on for so long, it is obvious that they are pro-illegal

But, it is a good sign that they made the emergency declaration
they felt it neccessary to "cater" to the non-illegal citizens\taxpayers
most likely they are having meetings with la raza right now telling them
that it is just a political ploy........like when the muslims have speeches in
arabic where they say one thing, and then a speech in english where they say another...........
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 8:45:17 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
And for any of you liberal pieces of shit that want to say this country was built on immigration and all that jazz .



The biggest culprit of all in this one is George Bush.  He sold his country out to get more hispanic votes, and curry favor with big business.  Remember the guest worker program?

WHY IS NO ONE BLAMING THE GUY WHO'S IN CHARGE FOR THIS SHIT?
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:00:35 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
And for any of you liberal pieces of shit that want to say this country was built on immigration and all that jazz .



The biggest culprit of all in this one is George Bush.  He sold his country out to get more hispanic votes, and curry favor with big business.  Remember the guest worker program?

WHY IS NO ONE BLAMING THE GUY WHO'S IN CHARGE FOR THIS SHIT?



I don't think you have been paying attention, we just don't bash him for fun\profit

Here..........

I cannot believe that traitor bush is making our citizens pay for the illegals welfare while
they are raping, kidnapping and killing our Children, Cops and LAW ABIDING Citizens
not that our attorney general gonzales would know what law abiding is even if it reached up and bit him on his ass
and they don't even enforce the laws against them driving without license\insurance, dui, hit and run, identity theft, tax evasion........
maybe I wouldn't feel so betrayed by bush if I had not voted for him both times(there..........don't say we don't criticize him anymore)
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:16:31 PM EDT
[#12]
and don't even get me started about v fox, if we did this to mexico
there is no doubt in my mind it would be called an act of war.......

Mexico funds staging areas for illegals
By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
August 18, 2005
www.washtimes.com/national/20050818-124840-9453r.htm
The Mexican staging area for illegal aliens that New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson demanded this week be bulldozed is among hundreds of similar sites along the border sponsored and maintained by the Mexican government.
   Many of the sites are marked with blue flags and pennants to signal that water is available. Others, such as the Las Chepas site that Mr. Richardson denounced, are a collection of old, mostly abandoned buildings or ranch houses where illegals gather for water and other supplies -- sometimes bartering with smugglers, or "coyotes," for passage north.
   Las Chepas, law-enforcement authorities said, also is a center for drug smugglers looking to move marijuana and cocaine into the United States.
   Rafael Laveaga, spokesman for the Mexican Embassy in Washington, yesterday said his government "has a duty and obligation by law to protect Mexican citizens at home and abroad."
   He said record high temperatures in the desert areas south of New Mexico and Arizona this year had resulted in the death of many illegal aliens.
   "We try to spread the word on the dangerous conditions these people will face in the desert, along with reports of historically high temperatures," he said. "What we are doing is part of an effort to prevent those deaths."
   Many of the Mexican aid stations are maintained by Grupo Beta, a Mexican governmentfunded humanitarian organization founded in the early 1990s. Driving through the desert regions south of the border in brightly painted orange trucks, Grupo Beta's job is to protect migrants along the border, not arrest them.
   In April, Grupo Beta worked with the Mexican military and the Sonora State Preventive Police to move would-be illegal aliens out of the desert areas just south of the U.S. border to locations east and west of Naco, Ariz., to avoid the Minuteman Project volunteers holding a vigil on the border.
   A branch of Mexico's National Migration Institute, Grupo Beta also helped pass out fliers warning migrants that the Minuteman volunteers, whom they described as "armed vigilantes," were waiting across the border to hurt them.
   In addition to the aid stations, the Mexican government has distributed more than a million copies of a 32-page handbook advising migrants how to cross into the United States. The book, known as "Guia del Migrante Mexicano," or "Guide for the Mexican Migrant," contains tips on avoiding apprehension by U.S. authorities.
   Aid stations for illegal aliens also exist in the United States, many of them established and supplied by various humanitarian organizations such as Humane Borders, a Tucson faith-based group that targets illegal aliens who the organization said might otherwise die in the desert.
   Humane Borders, established in 2001, has 70 water stations along the U.S. side of the border, each with two 50-gallon tanks next to a 30-foot-mast with a blue flag.
Many are on well-traveled migrant routes. Others have been placed, with permission, on property owned by Pima County, Ariz.; the National Park Service; the Bureau of Land Management; and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.
   Another U.S. group, known as No More Deaths, set up an aid camp last month near Arivaca, Ariz., helping stranded border-crossers with food, water and medical assistance. The Ark of the Covenant camp will remain in operation through September.
   The group has received much of its support from Presbyterian churches in Arizona and elsewhere. Last year, 500 volunteers -- including doctors and nurses -- took part in a similar camp. A second camp has been established on the Mexican side of the border, across from Douglas, Ariz., also sponsored by No More Deaths and a Mexican group that operates drug- and alcohol-rehabilitation centers.
   More than 110 illegal aliens have died in Arizona's desert this year.
   Mr. Richardson, in declaring a state of emergency in four New Mexico counties because of rising immigration, border violence and drug smuggling, called on the Mexican government to bulldoze Las Chepas, across the border from Columbus, N.M.
   The state of Chihuahua responded by calling for increased dialogue to improve security in the region, saying it would "offer all the support we can to continue our good relationship with our northern neighbor."
   The Mexican Foreign Relations Secretariat said Mr. Richardson's declaration did not "jibe with the spirit of cooperation and understanding" and called for a meeting to promote "appropriate actions."
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:28:07 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
HAHA!

Pw3ned.

New Mexico
Arizone

Only ones left are
California
Texas



not for long...
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:38:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Hell with Prairiedog hunting.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:42:24 PM EDT
[#15]
I always thought Texas was a 'badass' state, it's been a couple of days since AZ and NM started this gig and all I hear from Texas is a few crickets chirping.

Come on Texas, Kick your Gov. in the ass and Tell  him to get with it......


ETA: I like most people on the board have already given up on the Peoples Republic of Kalifornicators. They are a hopless lost cause....
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:52:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Here is a handy dandy contact website
www.governor.state.tx.us/contact
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 2:47:47 AM EDT
[#17]
Funny, Vincente Fox is acting like America is the country with "issues."

Seems to me that with thousands of people fleeing his country every day he'd come to the conclusion that Mehico is one fucked-up place to live.

Vincente, you can blow me. Eat shit and die, Fox.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 3:18:24 AM EDT
[#18]
Geez, Fox might actually have to create jobs for the MEXis.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 3:21:11 AM EDT
[#19]
Since we buy every other F'in thing from China, why don't we buy one of those "Great Walls" and place it along the border.

I usually vote along 2 issues (guns and taxes) but I'll tell you, border security is now up there. Hey GW, you need to get you shit together on this one .

Bomber
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 3:21:15 AM EDT
[#20]
I wonder hwo much of the drug money goes to Fox and his regime?
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 6:05:23 AM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:
I always thought Texas was a 'badass' state, it's been a couple of days since AZ and NM started this gig and all I hear from Texas is a few crickets chirping.

Come on Texas, Kick your Gov. in the ass and Tell  him to get with it......


ETA: I like most people on the board have already given up on the Peoples Republic of Kalifornicators. They are a hopless lost cause....



yeah no shit, what's with TX? I think they're drinking too much of the republican koolaid.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:00:57 PM EDT
[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
And for any of you liberal pieces of shit that want to say this country was built on immigration and all that jazz .



The biggest culprit of all in this one is George Bush.  He sold his country out to get more hispanic votes, and curry favor with big business.  Remember the guest worker program?

WHY IS NO ONE BLAMING THE GUY WHO'S IN CHARGE FOR THIS SHIT?



I don't think you have been paying attention, we just don't bash him for fun\profit

Here..........

I cannot believe that traitor bush is making our citizens pay for the illegals welfare while
they are raping, kidnapping and killing our Children, Cops and LAW ABIDING Citizens
not that our attorney general gonzales would know what law abiding is even if it reached up and bit him on his ass
and they don't even enforce the laws against them driving without license\insurance, dui, hit and run, identity theft, tax evasion........
maybe I wouldn't feel so betrayed by bush if I had not voted for him both times(there..........don't say we don't criticize him anymore)



You have no idea how much I enjoyed reading that.  The man has problems, and multitasking is clearly not his forte.  Meanwhile, the situation gets worse all the time.

In the following article, 40 percent of adult mexicans say they would move to the USA if they could, and 1 in 5 say they would do so illegally if necessary.  If we don't act soon, and seriously, it's going to get a lot worse.  And vincente fox is a worthless sham of a leader.  Why we would bend over to please him, at the expense of national and economic security, is so far beyond me, I can't even think about it.

www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-16-immigration-license_x.htm


More than 40% of Mexican adults say they would move to the USA if they could, and one in five say they would do so illegally if necessary, according to surveys released Tuesday by the Pew Hispanic Center
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 8:05:13 PM EDT
[#23]
.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 10:26:57 PM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
And for any of you liberal pieces of shit that want to say this country was built on immigration and all that jazz .



The biggest culprit of all in this one is George Bush.  He sold his country out to get more hispanic votes, and curry favor with big business.  Remember the guest worker program?

WHY IS NO ONE BLAMING THE GUY WHO'S IN CHARGE FOR THIS SHIT?



I don't think you have been paying attention, we just don't bash him for fun\profit

Here..........

I cannot believe that traitor bush is making our citizens pay for the illegals welfare while
they are raping, kidnapping and killing our Children, Cops and LAW ABIDING Citizens
not that our attorney general gonzales would know what law abiding is even if it reached up and bit him on his ass
and they don't even enforce the laws against them driving without license\insurance, dui, hit and run, identity theft, tax evasion........
maybe I wouldn't feel so betrayed by bush if I had not voted for him both times(there..........don't say we don't criticize him anymore)



You have no idea how much I enjoyed reading that.  The man has problems, and multitasking is clearly not his forte.  Meanwhile, the situation gets worse all the time.

In the following article, 40 percent of adult mexicans say they would move to the USA if they could, and 1 in 5 say they would do so illegally if necessary.  If we don't act soon, and seriously, it's going to get a lot worse.  And vincente fox is a worthless sham of a leader.  Why we would bend over to please him, at the expense of national and economic security, is so far beyond me, I can't even think about it.

www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-16-immigration-license_x.htm


More than 40% of Mexican adults say they would move to the USA if they could, and one in five say they would do so illegally if necessary, according to surveys released Tuesday by the Pew Hispanic Center



That is merely a restating of comments that have been posted by me and others here
kool-aid drinkers, walking\talking in lockstep is a mark of a liberal, we call them trolls here
I didn't notice your admission or acknowledgement that we don't back bush "no matter what"
glad you enjoyed it, don't let me down
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 10:33:34 PM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All in favor of invading Mexico, bitch-slapping Fox on tv, and mining the borders after looting the country of everything of value, raise your hand.



You can invade Mexico.  I sure as heck don't wanna set one American foot in that hell hole.



Would you prefer a-nother mid-eastern shithole??

At least we have pipelines to this shithole.

Once we do to Mexico, what some here advocate we do to other places,(less threatening), we can just drill through the glass..........
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 10:41:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Let's hear it for GWB, and his internationalist "world without borders"........

Yippeeekiiiiyaaaay   mfker!!!
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 10:46:25 PM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:
Funny, Vincente Fox is acting like America is the country with "issues."

Seems to me that with thousands of people fleeing his country every day he'd come to the conclusion that Mehico is one fucked-up place to live.

Vincente, you can blow me. Eat shit and die, Fox.



Do you and others on this thread think Bush disagrees with fox??

Where's his voice.

Where's ACTION???????????

Answer: He is an Internationalist socialist.

OR, the stupidest president we've ever had, in time of "war".

Your choice.

Link Posted: 8/18/2005 10:50:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Some issues are dem\rep, lib\con
some are not......
both dems and repubs(elected)
are trying to bring illegals here
clinton had amnesty, bush is going to have amnesty

Unless the LEGAL Citizens fight it tooth and nail
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 7:37:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Where's Pat Buchanan when you really need him.

Link Posted: 8/19/2005 7:43:07 PM EDT
[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Funny, Vincente Fox is acting like America is the country with "issues."

Seems to me that with thousands of people fleeing his country every day he'd come to the conclusion that Mehico is one fucked-up place to live.

Vincente, you can blow me. Eat shit and die, Fox.



Do you and others on this thread think Bush disagrees with fox??

Where's his voice.


Where's ACTION???????????

Answer: He is an Internationalist socialist.

OR, the stupidest president we've ever had, in time of "war".

Your choice.




bush can't speak, he's got foxs dick in his mouth.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 7:48:46 PM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:

kool-aid drinkers, walking\talking in lockstep is a mark of a liberal, we call them trolls herePeople don't get called 'trolls' here for regurgitating RNC party line fluff with little relevance
I didn't notice your admission or acknowledgement that we don't back bush "no matter what"
glad you enjoyed it, don't let me down



I was happy to see it, not only because we happen to agree on immigration, which I've been yelling about for months here, but also because of people finally, seriously, calling into question the motives and competence of GWB over this issue.  Perhaps I've missed other threads, but this seems to be a new frontier.

Link Posted: 8/19/2005 10:05:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Fear not, help is on the way...



+



Link Posted: 8/19/2005 10:07:08 PM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

kool-aid drinkers, walking\talking in lockstep is a mark of a liberal, we call them trolls here
People don't get called 'trolls' here for regurgitating RNC party line fluff with little relevance
I didn't notice your admission or acknowledgement that we don't back bush "no matter what"
glad you enjoyed it, don't let me down



I was happy to see it, not only because we happen to agree on immigration, which I've been yelling about for months here, but also because of people finally, seriously, calling into question the motives and competence of GWB over this issue.  Perhaps I've missed other threads, but this seems to be a new frontier.



Not gonna do it, huh? Okay, fine..........
I bet you could find my posts well before may2005 complaining about the open border and bush
calling the Minutemen "vigilantes"(if you search for my threads most will be about terrorists or illegals)
people here "regurgitate the RNC party line" because that IS what we actually believe
(I know that is a probably a difficult concept for a non-conservative to understand)
when bush says something, we don't automatically agree with it, we decide if it is right or wrong
IMO we agree with most of his policies, but his policy regarding the open border is not one of them
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 10:21:03 PM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Funny, Vincente Fox is acting like America is the country with "issues."

Seems to me that with thousands of people fleeing his country every day he'd come to the conclusion that Mehico is one fucked-up place to live.

Vincente, you can blow me. Eat shit and die, Fox.



Do you and others on this thread think Bush disagrees with fox??

Where's his voice.


Where's ACTION???????????

Answer: He is an Internationalist socialist.

OR, the stupidest president we've ever had, in time of "war".

Your choice.




bush can't speak, he's got foxs dick in his mouth.



Now that King Fahd is dead there's room for a new one. Who will that be?
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 10:24:20 PM EDT
[#35]

Quoted:
I wonder if any of this increased violence is Al Qaeda related? Could they be staging for a serious attack here and killing witnesses and those who helped them across?



Nope, they are already here and waiting. They are very patient. History has taught us that much.

As for Mexico, I've said it other times.........FUCK EM!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 10:42:04 PM EDT
[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
when is TEXAS gonna follow suit



Don't know if Perry will buck bush and do the right thing
maybe we should give him a call..........



My guess is he will tow the political line....but i guess its worth a shot in tryin to get some people to write to the capital



Perry was the one who gave in-state tuition to illegal aliens.  I am not expecting anything useful from him anymore than Bush at this point.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 10:45:38 PM EDT
[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
when is TEXAS gonna follow suit



Don't know if Perry will buck bush and do the right thing
maybe we should give him a call..........



My guess is he will tow the political line....but i guess its worth a shot in tryin to get some people to write to the capital



Perry was the one who gave in-state tuition to illegal aliens.  I am not expecting anything useful from him anymore than Bush at this point.



It looks like the politicians are starting to feel the heat on this situation
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:06:04 PM EDT
[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
when is TEXAS gonna follow suit



Don't know if Perry will buck bush and do the right thing
maybe we should give him a call..........



My guess is he will tow the political line....but i guess its worth a shot in tryin to get some people to write to the capital



Perry was the one who gave in-state tuition to illegal aliens.  I am not expecting anything useful from him anymore than Bush at this point.



It looks like the politicians are starting to feel the heat on this situation



You are an optimist.  I am not impressed by Bush, Cornyn, or Perry.  Birds of a feather.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:13:10 PM EDT
[#40]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoted:
All in favor of invading Mexico, bitch-slapping Fox on tv, and mining the borders after looting the country of everything of value, raise your hand.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





where do I signup?

hug.gifmark
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:16:59 PM EDT
[#41]

Quoted:
Fuck Fox and the horse he rode in on. With a cactus-and-razor-wire dildo.



Is that like a sandpaper glove?  Or a fist full of barbed wire?

Seriously though.  Now that these states or emergency have been declared, what really has changed?  Have AZ and NM directed National Guard or state troopers to the borders?  Or is it just noise making?
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 11:20:28 PM EDT
[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
when is TEXAS gonna follow suit



Don't know if Perry will buck bush and do the right thing
maybe we should give him a call..........



My guess is he will tow the political line....but i guess its worth a shot in tryin to get some people to write to the capital



Perry was the one who gave in-state tuition to illegal aliens.  I am not expecting anything useful from him anymore than Bush at this point.



It looks like the politicians are starting to feel the heat on this situation



You are an optimist.  I am not impressed by Bush, Cornyn, or Perry.  Birds of a feather.



That is something I don't get called very often............I said STARTING to feel the heat
We will need to throw their asses in a pot of boiling water before they actually fix the problem
bush is trying to make the illegals "legal" before the water starts boiling, it is now a race...........
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:32:40 AM EDT
[#43]

Quoted:

Seriously though.  Now that these states or emergency have been declared, what really has changed?  Have AZ and NM directed National Guard or state troopers to the borders?  Or is it just noise making?



It's just somthing to apease the people for a bit. Makes everyone think they actually recognize the problem.  It's more a political ploy than anything else. Even though they want the mexican vote, they still need ours too for the time being.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:06:56 AM EDT
[#44]

Quoted:
F MEXICO.

And never trust a people that make a staple of their diet re-fried beans...  Why the hell would anyone eat it if the f'd it up the first time?



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