OK, here's my rant directed towards you nannies:

I'm getting sick and tired of people fabricating reasons why the actions of others are anything more than a personal choice. This whole mentality of "No, your actions ARE affecting everybody else" is making me sick.

It's not good enough that somebody can make an informed choice to purchase a fuel efficient vehicle. NO. Rather, some feel the need to chastise everyone else they see who didn't make the same purchasing decision. Adding insult to injury, they come down from their high fucking horse long enough to inist that people who don't agree with them have no right to complain. Buying a fuel efficient vehicle isn't enough - they inist on telling others that their purchase actually HARMS people.

It's not good enough that somebody can choose to wear a seatbelt or a motorcycle helmet. NO. They see other people riding and driving without these safety devices carefree - and IT BOTHERS THEM. That's not enough, they tell others "these people are increasing healthcare costs".

It's not good enough that somebody can choose to smoke and hurt their own body. NO. Somebody else see's this and can't understand why somebody would do that. They tell others "NO! It's hurting all of us! Their second hand smoke and their medical bills affect as all!" Get over yourselves.

In short: Leave us the fuck alone, mind your own fucking business, and quit fabricating reasons why the actions of those who do things you don't like negatively affects the public. We're not buying it. When somebody spends their money in a way you don't like, keep your mouth shut about it. Quit trying to make every decision of yours an issue of absolute right and wrong, and for the love of God get the fuck off that high horse and show a little respect for those around you, you elitist, pompous pricks.

I'd drive an M-1A2 tank around town if someone would sell me one cheap...what's it get 1/2 per gallon?

Quoted: Quoted: Okay, somebody explain why I'm paying more for diesel than premium? IIRC diesel is basically the cull of gasoline. There is less of it therefore it costs more. Also more goods move by diesel trucks now than they did 30 years ago.

50 years ago.  But not today.  Energy is sold by the Btu and since diesel has more energy per gallon than gasoline, it costs more when the price of crude jumps.

Yes, more gallons of gasoline can be made from a barrel of crude than gallons of diesel.

Quoted: Little formula here: Demand > Supply

Little formula - BIG concept.

Gas is a derivative of oil, and it is oil that is in high demand. Oil provides the energy needed to manufacture goods and it is a component to all kinds of plastics and petrochemicals. The world is putting out quite a bit of product and there is competition for the oil component. Auto fuel is only part of the demand and not the part that is currently wagging the dog.

I get 50mpg in my ride. Quit bitching at me about my Tahoe.

those who use more gas pay more in gas taxes, subsidizing the road system for the tax evading gas sippers.

Quoted: Quoted: Little formula here: Demand > Supply Little formula - BIG concept. Gas is a derivative of oil, and it is oil that is in high demand. Oil provides the energy needed to manufacture goods and it is a component to all kinds of plastics and petrochemicals. The world is putting out quite a bit of product and there is competition for the oil component. Auto fuel is only part of the demand and not the part that is currently wagging the dog.

Yes... if the demand and price stays high there are alternatives to oil, the markets will correct themselves.

Pay to Play! I dont bitch, I just smile knowing I have the money to fill up my gas guzzling American steel. like my dad said "son you can buy gas but you cant buy your life, put some steel around you"

So IF (and I dont wish this on anyone) they pry your crushed legs from your gas saving honda dont bithch that you cant walk.

Quoted: OK, here's my rant directed towards you nannies: I'm getting sick and tired of people fabricating reasons why the actions of others are anything more than a personal choice. This whole mentality of "No, your actions ARE affecting everybody else" is making me sick. It's not good enough that somebody can make an informed choice to purchase a fuel efficient vehicle. NO. Rather, some feel the need to chastise everyone else they see who didn't make the same purchasing decision. Adding insult to injury, they come down from their high fucking horse long enough to inist that people who don't agree with them have no right to complain. Buying a fuel efficient vehicle isn't enough - they inist on telling others that their purchase actually HARMS people. It's not good enough that somebody can choose to wear a seatbelt or a motorcycle helmet. NO. They see other people riding and driving without these safety devices carefree - and IT BOTHERS THEM. That's not enough, they tell others "these people are increasing healthcare costs". It's not good enough that somebody can choose to smoke and hurt their own body. NO. Somebody else see's this and can't understand why somebody would do that. They tell others "NO! It's hurting all of us! Their second hand smoke and their medical bills affect as all!" Get over yourselves. In short: Leave us the fuck alone, mind your own fucking business, and quit fabricating reasons why the actions of those who do things you don't like negatively affects the public. We're not buying it. When somebody spends their money in a way you don't like, keep your mouth shut about it. Quit trying to make every decision of yours an issue of absolute right and wrong, and for the love of God get the fuck off that high horse and show a little respect for those around you, you elitist, pompous pricks.

BIG Amen brother SUB Im with you on that

Quoted: those who use more gas pay more in gas taxes, subsidizing the road system for the tax evading gas sippers.

I think it makes sense for the more fuel-efficient drivers to pay less.  Their vehicles are generally lighter and probably cause less wear and tear to the roads.

I gotta tell you, I was willing to listen to some of the "high oil prices", "tight supply", "overseas demand", "no new refinery" bullshit for a long time.  I'm starting to just not buy into that shit anymore.  I hate to sound left-winger but the record profits the gas companies are making just strikes a wrong cord.

In my opinion they realized over the last few years that they can charge whatever they want if the are patient enough.  Increase 30 cents, come down 10.  Increase 50 cents, come down 10.  Increae 25 cents, come down 5.  We all scream and bitcha the the big jump then sigh relief at the tiny decrease.  The gas companies realized we aren't going to sell our cars.  We aren't going to start biking to work.  Hell, I can't, I live 25 miles outside of town.  These guys realize that we are their best friends, too, in that whenever anyone questions what's going on others jump all over them.  "Oh, you don't know how the industry works."  "Oh, the cost is cheaper than in 1984 if you account for inflation."  The same defenders with the same rhetoric.

I hate to say it but I think we have all been, and continue to be, conned by a lot of people who are making a lot of money.  

Quoted: I probably won't make friends with this but the sooner you face it the better you are. All of you who drive gas-guzzeling trucks or street-tanks who DO NOT use them for serious work, have no right to bitch about gas prices. For it is you who contribute to the soar in gas prices. Little formula here: Demand > Supply No other country in the world has as many cars, nor as inefficient cars as the US. 20% of the worlds gas supply goes to our personal vehicles alone (source: NPR) And take a guess what terrorist countries are getting your cash?

DU is thatta way--------------->

Quoted: I'd drive an M-1A2 tank around town if someone would sell me one cheap...what's it get 1/2 per gallon?

Don't know, but the Discovery channel had a special the other night about the NASA crawler (the one that takes the shuttle from the vehicle assembly building to the launch pad).  

It gets 38 feet per gallon of diesel.  Daym.

[I'd drive an M-1A2 tank around town if someone would sell me one cheap...what's it get 1/2 per gallon?]
actually it burns roughly the same amount of fuel at full load or idle. if i remember correctly it was something like 2-4gal a minute? dont qoute me but im pretty sure thats the correct figure.
  oh by the way i like my big fucking truck that gets 5-7mpg and if u dont ill just run u and ur lil pos over wipe ur damn box, and mind ur own damn bussiness my life is not for u to critique.
   U FUCKING DOLT!

Thats all anyone ever talks about is the gas prices. What happened to talking about the weather or sports. I hate the people who drive v-10 pickup trucks that never use them for any work or towing. These guys only bought them for show. I had a big bad ass 2001 dodge ram diesel 4x4(22 mpg). Sure, I felt big and bad and tough and safe. I sold it and now have a honda civic. I don't need a big rig to feel like a man. Its a free country and if you want to buy a truck you don't need then go ahead and get one. Just put something in the back(once in a while) and at least keep the damn tailgate up or take it off.

Quoted: I gotta tell you, I was willing to listen to some of the "high oil prices", "tight supply", "overseas demand", "no new refinery" bullshit for a long time.  I'm starting to just not buy into that shit anymore.  I hate to sound left-winger but the record profits the gas companies are making just strikes a wrong cord. In my opinion they realized over the last few years that they can charge whatever they want if the are patient enough.  Increase 30 cents, come down 10.  Increase 50 cents, come down 10.  Increae 25 cents, come down 5.  We all scream and bitcha the the big jump then sigh relief at the tiny decrease.  The gas companies realized we aren't going to sell our cars.  We aren't going to start biking to work.  Hell, I can't, I live 25 miles outside of town.  These guys realize that we are their best friends, too, in that whenever anyone questions what's going on others jump all over them.  "Oh, you don't know how the industry works."  "Oh, the cost is cheaper than in 1984 if you account for inflation."  The same defenders with the same rhetoric. I hate to say it but I think we have all been, and continue to be, conned by a lot of people who are making a lot of money.

whats wrong with capitalism? If you were the owner of an oil company would you do any different? I wouldnt. I dont blame them really. If I sold a product and double my price and demand still went up, I  dont see whay I would loweer it.

I think most people (liberlas especially) feel they are owed cheap oil. they feel they are owed something.


And I again say its the econo car drivers who complain more than anyone about gas prices. They say we are the complainers but so far I have yet to see it that way. Its the econo car drivers who cry the most.

Quoted: It's not good enough that somebody can choose to wear a seatbelt or a motorcycle helmet. NO. They see other people riding and driving without these safety devices carefree - and IT BOTHERS THEM. That's not enough, they tell others "these people are increasing healthcare costs".

Sounds good as long as the no-helmet wearer's insurance reflects the potential healthcare costs of that rider being in an accident.  If you want the freedom then you should be willing to bear the costs of your conduct instead of putting them on the taxpayer or the hospital that takes care of you.  Economics 101 calls this an "Externality".

It's not good enough that somebody can choose to smoke and hurt their own body. NO. Somebody else see's this and can't understand why somebody would do that. They tell others "NO! It's hurting all of us! Their second hand smoke and their medical bills affect as all!" Get over yourselves.

If you think secondhand smoke doesn't negatively affect people, you're wrong.  Dead wrong.  Every scientific study proves otherwise.  If you want to engage in the filthy habit, go ahead, but blow the smoke somewhere where I am not.  (see "Externality" term again)

Quoted: Quoted: I gotta tell you, I was willing to listen to some of the "high oil prices", "tight supply", "overseas demand", "no new refinery" bullshit for a long time.  I'm starting to just not buy into that shit anymore.  I hate to sound left-winger but the record profits the gas companies are making just strikes a wrong cord. In my opinion they realized over the last few years that they can charge whatever they want if the are patient enough.  Increase 30 cents, come down 10.  Increase 50 cents, come down 10.  Increae 25 cents, come down 5.  We all scream and bitcha the the big jump then sigh relief at the tiny decrease.  The gas companies realized we aren't going to sell our cars.  We aren't going to start biking to work.  Hell, I can't, I live 25 miles outside of town.  These guys realize that we are their best friends, too, in that whenever anyone questions what's going on others jump all over them.  "Oh, you don't know how the industry works."  "Oh, the cost is cheaper than in 1984 if you account for inflation."  The same defenders with the same rhetoric. I hate to say it but I think we have all been, and continue to be, conned by a lot of people who are making a lot of money.   whats wrong with capitalism? If you were the owner of an oil company would you do any different? I wouldnt. I dont blame them really. If I sold a product and double my price and demand still went up, I  dont see whay I would loweer it. I think most people (liberlas especially) feel they are owed cheap oil. they feel they are owed something.

I knew that was coming, I was just waiting.  

I have no problem with capitalism whatsoever.  I have no problem with oil companies (or anyone) making an honest dollar.  I have a BIG problem with being lied to and manipulated for so long that there's almost nothing we can realistically do about it anymore.  I don't know that is the case but I'm sure starting to lean in that direction.

Quoted: Quoted: those who use more gas pay more in gas taxes, subsidizing the road system for the tax evading gas sippers. I think it makes sense for the more fuel-efficient drivers to pay less.  Their vehicles are generally lighter and probably cause less wear and tear to the roads.

They already do pay less... the more gas you buy the more taxes you pay.

"All of you who drive gas-guzzeling trucks or street-tanks who DO NOT use them for serious work, have no right to bitch about gas prices. For it is you who contribute to the soar in gas prices."

How in hell do you think you are?  Telling me i have no right to bitch about prices.  What have you got Shit for brains?

Always find it "amusing" seeing guys driving trucks like the one pictured below, that have beds with not a single scuff mark, and look like the biggest thing they haul around is their small dick.

Now granted, if such a truck is actually used for what it's for, obviously that makes sense....but there are DEFINATELY guys who buy these for no other reason than to drive a truck that is just big, 'cause they're a big fella....and their ego needs a big 'ol truck.

If you "need" a truck, largely for ego purposes, pathetic. If you actually use your truck, makes perfect sense.

Quoted: I probably won't make friends with this but the sooner you face it the better you are. All of you who drive gas-guzzeling trucks or street-tanks who DO NOT use them for serious work, have no right to bitch about gas prices. For it is you who contribute to the soar in gas prices. Little formula here: Demand > Supply No other country in the world has as many cars, nor as inefficient cars as the US. 20% of the worlds gas supply goes to our personal vehicles alone (source: NPR) And take a guess what terrorist countries are getting your cash?

.......patiently awaiting the gas/electric Geo Metro that can pull my 10,000 pound trailer.  

As far as how terrorists are getting our money?  They simply pick a VISA card number out of thin air and start charging.  It happened to me, $$$ went to Pakistan.  The Secret Service agent said this happens in Syria, Iran, Canada, Mexico, you just name it.  It is easy to steal in this manner, and the .gov is doing little, if not nothing to stop it.  Much easier than pumping oil.  

You sound like a vegetarian, who typically wears leather pants and leather shoes.  

Quoted: Quoted: I probably won't make friends with this but the sooner you face it the better you are. All of you who drive gas-guzzeling trucks or street-tanks who DO NOT use them for serious work, have no right to bitch about gas prices. For it is you who contribute to the soar in gas prices. Little formula here: Demand > Supply No other country in the world has as many cars, nor as inefficient cars as the US. 20% of the worlds gas supply goes to our personal vehicles alone (source: NPR) And take a guess what terrorist countries are getting your cash? .......patiently awaiting the gas/electric Geo Metro that can pull my 10,000 pound trailer.

They only market those in California, to save redwoods and children.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Since the domestice vs import issue came up. for you GM guys or anti imnport guys. How do you feel about the Pontiac Vibe? Is GM now a traitor? What about when they used the Corolla as the Prism? Is buying a GM aiding the enemy you hate so much? How about the GTO? Toyota is building that for GM as well?

No, but Holden in Australia is..........at least the chassis and body.

Quoted: Quoted: I probably won't make friends with this but the sooner you face it the better you are. All of you who drive gas-guzzeling trucks or street-tanks who DO NOT use them for serious work, have no right to bitch about gas prices. For it is you who contribute to the soar in gas prices. Little formula here: Demand > Supply No other country in the world has as many cars, nor as inefficient cars as the US. 20% of the worlds gas supply goes to our personal vehicles alone (source: NPR) And take a guess what terrorist countries are getting your cash? NEWSFLASH: You are part of the problem too. You can sit back and critisize someone for driving a car that uses more fuel than yours, but the fact is, you are still driving a gas-based car, no matter how much you don't want to. We need to get rid of assault rifles and buy bolt guns because there is a shortage on .223!!!

Only those who have select fire rifles in intermediate cartridges have assault rifles.

But, some of my ARs shoot .308 and they make bolt guns that shoot .223, so your point is illogical.

Quoted: And take a guess what terrorist countries are getting your cash? Who put sand in your vagina?  I like my truck and I hate the gas prices.  Welcome to America! Hey I'm not telling you to sell your truck. I'm not even saying that I hate your truck. I'm just bringing attention to the fact that gas prices are the way they are because our enourmous demand for gas. And that your cash is going straight into the pockets of those who kill our soldiers. Be a proud American.

Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot????

Um...and WHY are we buying Saudi oil???? Because we are TOLD that  they are our FRIENDS....and HAVE been told they are our friends by EVERY administration (both DEM and REP) since the days of Nixon. Don't dare sit there and essentially tell me or others that we support terrorism because car companies have not introduced a car that can run on sand...
You wanna stop lining the pockets of the Saudis??? Find out why Washington is willing to let them bend them over at the waist every time crude pricing is announced...don't shit all over those of us who don't think it's safe to put our kids in tin cans when there's 12 inches a freaken snow out the window...Instead, call your representatives and find out why we're in bed with the mangy money grubbing oil covered slimy bastards.
pfft




F*ckin' a.....

Next time I see one of those little tin can econo-box pieces of shit stuck in 6" of snow, I'll feel REALLY good about passing right on by...
I also won't feel sorry for them when  they decide to play chicken with my 6500lb, 454 powered, gas guzzling Chevy Dually.
Guess who ALWAYS wins THAT challenge.

On the road, SIZE DOES MATTER, and it's good to be the biggest fish in the sea.

$66 dollars of gas in the tank this morning never felt so good....

Quoted: OK, here's my rant directed towards you nannies: I'm getting sick and tired of people fabricating reasons why the actions of others are anything more than a personal choice. This whole mentality of "No, your actions ARE affecting everybody else" is making me sick. It's not good enough that somebody can make an informed choice to purchase a fuel efficient vehicle. NO. Rather, some feel the need to chastise everyone else they see who didn't make the same purchasing decision. Adding insult to injury, they come down from their high fucking horse long enough to inist that people who don't agree with them have no right to complain. Buying a fuel efficient vehicle isn't enough - they inist on telling others that their purchase actually HARMS people. It's not good enough that somebody can choose to wear a seatbelt or a motorcycle helmet. NO. They see other people riding and driving without these safety devices carefree - and IT BOTHERS THEM. That's not enough, they tell others "these people are increasing healthcare costs". It's not good enough that somebody can choose to smoke and hurt their own body. NO. Somebody else see's this and can't understand why somebody would do that. They tell others "NO! It's hurting all of us! Their second hand smoke and their medical bills affect as all!" Get over yourselves. In short: Leave us the fuck alone, mind your own fucking business, and quit fabricating reasons why the actions of those who do things you don't like negatively affects the public. We're not buying it. When somebody spends their money in a way you don't like, keep your mouth shut about it. Quit trying to make every decision of yours an issue of absolute right and wrong, and for the love of God get the fuck off that high horse and show a little respect for those around you, you elitist, pompous pricks.

Do you apply this to those who whine about smokers?

Quoted: If you think secondhand smoke doesn't negatively affect people, you're wrong.  Dead wrong.  Every scientific study proves otherwise.  If you want to engage in the filthy habit, go ahead, but blow the smoke somewhere where I am not.  (see "Externality" term again)

And every one of those "scientific studies" have been proven to be false.

I love reading the posts of those who presume to think for others. Just like liberals to assume that what is right for them, is right for everybody.

Do NOT attempt to do my thinking for me.

I hate that.

Quoted: Quoted: If you think secondhand smoke doesn't negatively affect people, you're wrong.  Dead wrong.  Every scientific study proves otherwise.  If you want to engage in the filthy habit, go ahead, but blow the smoke somewhere where I am not.  (see "Externality" term again) And every one of those "scientific studies" have been proven to be false.

Sure, right.  You must work for one of the tobacco-financed research think tanks.

Try doing a lit survey on medline and see what you find.

You're a socialist by your demonstrated judgement of publically traded resources. When you get to decide what 'serious' use I have for my truck will probably be the same day you think you get to decide what 'serious' work I do with my guns and ammo.

Did you even read what you wrote? I mean take what you say about gasoline and an SUV and apply it to something else. Like maybe all that electricity you use with your Xbox is wasted and you should be forced to either pay more for the electricity or get rid of the Xbox. Using the Xbox is hopefully going to try to help you understand some simple principle here.

I have to think you are just a child because your ability to contemplate market economics is very immature to say the least, or you think that NPR is telling you the truth.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you think secondhand smoke doesn't negatively affect people, you're wrong.  Dead wrong.  Every scientific study proves otherwise.  If you want to engage in the filthy habit, go ahead, but blow the smoke somewhere where I am not.  (see "Externality" term again) And every one of those "scientific studies" have been proven to be false. Sure, right.  You must work for one of the tobacco-financed research think tanks. Try doing a lit survey on medline and see what you find.

He's right, Phil, the studies are crap.

First, let me say I DO NOT think it's healthy to be in a phone booth or a car with a smoker.

That said, other than thos particular situations, how COULD you possibly account for variables such as volume of gas, ventilation, amount of smoke, etc.

The studies you refer to are bunk.

Also, I don't work for big tobaccy.  BUt even if I did, the fact that I say the sky is blue does NOT make that assertion false.  

Quoted: OK, here's my rant directed towards you nannies: I'm getting sick and tired of people fabricating reasons why the actions of others are anything more than a personal choice. This whole mentality of "No, your actions ARE affecting everybody else" is making me sick. It's not good enough that somebody can make an informed choice to purchase a fuel efficient vehicle. NO. Rather, some feel the need to chastise everyone else they see who didn't make the same purchasing decision. Adding insult to injury, they come down from their high fucking horse long enough to inist that people who don't agree with them have no right to complain. Buying a fuel efficient vehicle isn't enough - they inist on telling others that their purchase actually HARMS people. It's not good enough that somebody can choose to wear a seatbelt or a motorcycle helmet. NO. They see other people riding and driving without these safety devices carefree - and IT BOTHERS THEM. That's not enough, they tell others "these people are increasing healthcare costs". It's not good enough that somebody can choose to smoke and hurt their own body. NO. Somebody else see's this and can't understand why somebody would do that. They tell others "NO! It's hurting all of us! Their second hand smoke and their medical bills affect as all!" Get over yourselves. In short: Leave us the fuck alone, mind your own fucking business, and quit fabricating reasons why the actions of those who do things you don't like negatively affects the public. We're not buying it. When somebody spends their money in a way you don't like, keep your mouth shut about it. Quit trying to make every decision of yours an issue of absolute right and wrong, and for the love of God get the fuck off that high horse and show a little respect for those around you, you elitist, pompous pricks.

Nicely put.

All I know is I like my Corolla even more these days!!!. Think I'm gonna pass on the F150 I've been thinking about for a while.

Buy a bike vagina boy!
I drive my truck balls to the wall and burn way more gas than I should,  and I'm not bitchin'.
I remember back in school when I couldn't afford gas and was scared to use the A/C because I couldn't replace it if it wore out.
I'm just glad I make a little money and can pay for my gas without much of a concern.
Stay in the right lane because while your counting nickles and dimes in ash tray I'm gonna be blowing by burning as many dinasours as I can!

Quoted:

Good responses, "sure, right" and "rolleyes".  Very intelligent.

The wife and I own two cars.  One '01 Suburban (16MPG) and one '05 Prius (40-50MPG).  They both see use (that fuckin' Prius can't doesn't have much cargo space and can't tow for shit).  It was time for a new car this year ('93 Jeep was givin' out), so we decided to get a car that got better mileage.  Works great for puttering around town, and even ferrying the kids to the next city (180mi) to visit the grandparents.  

But give up my Suburban?  NFW.

Quoted: Quoted: If you think secondhand smoke doesn't negatively affect people, you're wrong.  Dead wrong.  Every scientific study proves otherwise.  If you want to engage in the filthy habit, go ahead, but blow the smoke somewhere where I am not.  (see "Externality" term again) And every one of those "scientific studies" have been proven to be false.

Got a source or link for that claim?  

Quoted: Always find it "amusing" seeing guys driving trucks like the one pictured below, that have beds with not a single scuff mark, and look like the biggest thing they haul around is their small dick. Now granted, if such a truck is actually used for what it's for, obviously that makes sense....but there are DEFINATELY guys who buy these for no other reason than to drive a truck that is just big, 'cause they're a big fella....and their ego needs a big 'ol truck. If you "need" a truck, largely for ego purposes, pathetic. If you actually use your truck, makes perfect sense. kfz-service-center.de/3500_chevrolet_silverado_dually.jpg

So if you don't really NEED a Colt M-4, but have one, then you must also have a centimeter pecker, that is, if your train of thought works like that.

Quoted: Quoted: OK, here's my rant directed towards you nannies: It's not good enough that somebody can choose to smoke and hurt their own body. NO. Somebody else see's this and can't understand why somebody would do that. They tell others "NO! It's hurting all of us! Their second hand smoke and their medical bills affect as all!" Get over yourselves. Do you apply this to those who whine about smokers?

Sorry dude, it is a legit concern about the cost of your unhealthy habit raising the cost of my healthcare.

I'll make a deal with you. I'll shut up about smoking if you agree to blow your brains out if diagnosed with lung cancer rather than seek expensive treatment through private health insurance, or worse yet, medicare or medicaid.

Deal??

Quoted: Quoted: OK, here's my rant directed towards you nannies: I'm getting sick and tired of people fabricating reasons why the actions of others are anything more than a personal choice. This whole mentality of "No, your actions ARE affecting everybody else" is making me sick. It's not good enough that somebody can make an informed choice to purchase a fuel efficient vehicle. NO. Rather, some feel the need to chastise everyone else they see who didn't make the same purchasing decision. Adding insult to injury, they come down from their high fucking horse long enough to inist that people who don't agree with them have no right to complain. Buying a fuel efficient vehicle isn't enough - they inist on telling others that their purchase actually HARMS people. It's not good enough that somebody can choose to wear a seatbelt or a motorcycle helmet. NO. They see other people riding and driving without these safety devices carefree - and IT BOTHERS THEM. That's not enough, they tell others "these people are increasing healthcare costs". It's not good enough that somebody can choose to smoke and hurt their own body. NO. Somebody else see's this and can't understand why somebody would do that. They tell others "NO! It's hurting all of us! Their second hand smoke and their medical bills affect as all!" Get over yourselves. In short: Leave us the fuck alone, mind your own fucking business, and quit fabricating reasons why the actions of those who do things you don't like negatively affects the public. We're not buying it. When somebody spends their money in a way you don't like, keep your mouth shut about it. Quit trying to make every decision of yours an issue of absolute right and wrong, and for the love of God get the fuck off that high horse and show a little respect for those around you, you elitist, pompous pricks. Do you apply this to those who whine about smokers?

Yes LARRYG, I do. Now, if I may direct my attention to the nannies once more:

Lately, I'm beginning to think there aren't many true conservatives left. The only difference left between liberals and conservatives anymore is what each group wants banned, taxed or restricted for some perceived "public good". To hell with the lot.

Kris Kristofferson penned a little number a while back, that seems to fit this discussion well:

Everybody's got to have somebody to look down on,
who they can feel better than at any time they please.
Someone's doing something dirty decent folks can frown on.
If you can't find nobody else, then help yourself to me.

At the core of these "ban/restrict/tax it for the public good" diatribes, lies a deep seated hatred for those who choose to engage in activities the nannies don't like. It simply bothers them that others choose to do something they disagree with. THAT'S ALL IT IS. Since it's generally accepted that people can do whatever they wish as long as it hurts no one else, all that remains is to come up with ANY reason to show that something negatively affects the public - whether it is factual or not.

So, one more time for the record:

Smokers do not increase the cost of health care to the public. I have repeatedly asked for evidence to support the claim that it does, and all I get are conclusions to studies who's text I convienently am prohibitted from reading in it's entirety. Fancy that.

Secondhand smoke is not dangerous, and all studies asserting it is have been proven false. Not that anybody ever bothers to read the critiques of these studies anyway (intellectualy lazy fucks). Hell, the people who champion these studies don't even take the time to read them in their entirety. They just read the conclusion and accept it at face value. Utterly amazing.

Unhelmeted and unbelted riders and motorists do not increase the cost of health care to the public. If head injuries are so damn expensive and prolific, I wanna see you cage drivers wearing helmets so that the thousands of head injury related deaths in automobiles can be prevented. What's that? It will affect your hearing, limit your periphrial vision and make you uncomfortable? Gee, that sucks.

The proliferation of guns in this country does not increase crime, or increase the cost of health care to the public. This is about the only thing everyone on this site agrees with. Know what? Plenty of other people out there will provide mounds of evidence to the contrary, which you guys will promptly analyze and refute. What saddens me is that many of you won't afford the same due diligence to much anything else.

People who choose to drive large vehicles are not increasing gas prices. Repeating it over and over doesn't make it true. Why can't you nannies enjoy your fuel efficient vehicle and just leave it at that? Wait, I know why. When sombody doesn't make the same decision you do, it personally offends you. The only way you know to make it right is to impose your beliefs on others under the guise of the greater good.

Kiss my ass.

I say go Fuck Yourself...

I drive a big ass truck, and I whine about gas prices...


Who the Fuck are you to tell me what I can and cant do?

When I do buy another truck, it will be for 85% ego, 5% for fishing and ice fishing (don't have to break down rods and can haul ice shanty) and 5% shooting (hauling guns and stuff), and 5% small boat/canoe/kayak. It will also provide a legitimate platform for displaying all my Dale Jr. stickers as on a truck it'll look normal. As for the smoking part of it, my butts always get flung out the window, so no problem there-

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OK, here's my rant directed towards you nannies: It's not good enough that somebody can choose to smoke and hurt their own body. NO. Somebody else see's this and can't understand why somebody would do that. They tell others "NO! It's hurting all of us! Their second hand smoke and their medical bills affect as all!" Get over yourselves. Do you apply this to those who whine about smokers? Sorry dude, it is a legit concern about the cost of your unhealthy habit raising the cost of my healthcare. I'll make a deal with you. I'll shut up about smoking if you agree to blow your brains out if diagnosed with lung cancer rather than seek expensive treatment through private health insurance, or worse yet, medicare or medicaid. Deal??

This is a false argument…

Study after study has show on average virtually the exact same amount of dollars are spent on health care per individual no matter when or how they die, the bulk of the cost coming in the last 5 years of life.

When you take in to consideration that a smoker who dies at say 60 never lives to collect Social Security the government actually SAVES money on these people.

Quoted: In short: Leave us the fuck alone, mind your own fucking business, and quit fabricating reasons why the actions of those who do things you don't like negatively affects the public. We're not buying it. When somebody spends their money in a way you don't like, keep your mouth shut about it. Quit trying to make every decision of yours an issue of absolute right and wrong, and for the love of God get the fuck off that high horse and show a little respect for those around you, you elitist, pompous pricks.

+1, BIG +1

I wanted to write something else, but I'm so disgusted with this collectivist/socialist mindset that it would wind up either incoherent or an essay.  You said it better than I will be able to.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I probably won't make friends with this but the sooner you face it the better you are. All of you who drive gas-guzzeling trucks or street-tanks who DO NOT use them for serious work, have no right to bitch about gas prices. For it is you who contribute to the soar in gas prices. Little formula here: Demand > Supply No other country in the world has as many cars, nor as inefficient cars as the US. 20% of the worlds gas supply goes to our personal vehicles alone (source: NPR) And take a guess what terrorist countries are getting your cash? Who put sand in your vagina?  I like my truck and I hate the gas prices.  Welcome to America! Hey I'm not telling you to sell your truck. I'm not even saying that I hate your truck. I'm just bringing attention to the fact that gas prices are the way they are because our enourmous demand for gas. And that your cash is going straight into the pockets of those who kill our soldiers. Be a proud American.

So, since I drive a full-size truck I'm supporting terrorism???

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OK, here's my rant directed towards you nannies: It's not good enough that somebody can choose to smoke and hurt their own body. NO. Somebody else see's this and can't understand why somebody would do that. They tell others "NO! It's hurting all of us! Their second hand smoke and their medical bills affect as all!" Get over yourselves. Do you apply this to those who whine about smokers? Sorry dude, it is a legit concern about the cost of your unhealthy habit raising the cost of my healthcare. I'll make a deal with you. I'll shut up about smoking if you agree to blow your brains out if diagnosed with lung cancer rather than seek expensive treatment through private health insurance, or worse yet, medicare or medicaid. Deal?? This is a false argument… Study after study has show on average virtually the exact same amount of dollars are spent on health care per individual no matter when or how they die, the bulk of the cost coming in the last 5 years of life. When you take in to consideration that a smoker who dies at say 60 never lives to collect Social Security the government actually SAVES money on these people.

Put up or shut up. What studies.

I took all of 3 seconds to find this article:

http://www.smokinglungs.com/whatcost.htm

Yes, I acknowledge that I haven't verified with underlying data....blah....blah.....blah.

ETA: a portion of the article

The financial consequences of cigarette smoking are truly mind-boggling. The cost of tobacco related diseases including coronary artery disease, cerebrovascular accident (stroke), peripheral artery disease, chronic bronchitis and emphysema, lung cancer and cancer of the lip, mouth, larynx, esophagus, pancreas and bladder has been calculated by conservative estimates derived from data collected in the National Medical Expenditures Survey. This data indicates that the direct cost of tobacco use is approximately $50 billion dollars each year. Direct costs include hospitalization, doctors bills, medications, and home and nursing home care. 43.3% of this amount is paid for by Medicare and Medicaid (MediCal in California). Put in different terms, the medical cost of each pack of cigarettes sold in the U.S. each year (24 billion packs) is $2.06, and the government pays $0.89 per pack of cigarettes. Before you become adjusted to these huge numbers, let me add that the indirect costs due to cigarettes including such things as fires, premature births, loss of productivity secondary to premature death adds up to another $50 billion or more.

Quoted: Put up or shut up. What studies. I took all of 3 seconds to find this article: http://www.smokinglungs.com/whatcost.htm Yes, I acknowledge that I haven't verified with underlying data....blah....blah.....blah. ETA: a portion of the article The financial consequences of cigarette smoking are truly mind-boggling. The cost of tobacco related diseases including coronary artery disease, cerebrovascular accident (stroke), peripheral artery disease, chronic bronchitis and emphysema, lung cancer and cancer of the lip, mouth, larynx, esophagus, pancreas and bladder has been calculated by conservative estimates derived from data collected in the National Medical Expenditures Survey. This data indicates that the direct cost of tobacco use is approximately $50 billion dollars each year. Direct costs include hospitalization, doctors bills, medications, and home and nursing home care. 43.3% of this amount is paid for by Medicare and Medicaid (MediCal in California). Put in different terms, the medical cost of each pack of cigarettes sold in the U.S. each year (24 billion packs) is $2.06, and the government pays $0.89 per pack of cigarettes. Before you become adjusted to these huge numbers, let me add that the indirect costs due to cigarettes including such things as fires, premature births, loss of productivity secondary to premature death adds up to another $50 billion or more.

Believe what you want, the above is bullshit.

All people eventually die of something and those same health care cost noted above apply to all people at that time in their lives. Except of course the long term care cost associated with aging that do not apply to those that die young.