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Posted: 8/13/2005 2:31:06 PM EDT
[#1]
I recently read the newest biography about him (recommend it highly, by the way), The First American. According to the author, Ben was about as close to agnostic as you could get in those days.
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Posted: 8/13/2005 2:32:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Name one theocracy you would have enjoyed being a citizen of. |
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Posted: 8/13/2005 2:34:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Wow. You need to work on reading comprehension. I never said anything about a theocracy. I said a Godly system. As in, good moral laws, good people, and a good environment to live in. We cannot rely purely on Man, we need some sort of system outside of Man. That is what the Founding Fathers did in the constitution and other papers. They did NOT write the constitution based on previous laws of Man. |
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Posted: 8/13/2005 3:17:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Here is what Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason
"I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy. But, lest it should be supposed that I believe in many other things in addition to these, I shall, in the progress of this work, declare the things I do not believe, and my reasons for not believing them. I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." |
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Posted: 8/13/2005 3:39:40 PM EDT
[#5]
I have no opinion one way or the other on the founding fathers. However I do not believe murder and theft are illegal because these are religious principles. I am not religious, and even if there were not laws which prevented me from stealing or killing or raping, those are not activities I would participate in. I think not murdering people comes down to simple human decency, which the majority of us are born with. |
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Posted: 8/13/2005 3:45:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Very nice public school quote. However, Jefferson and Franklin were quite the ladies' men. 
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Posted: 8/13/2005 3:54:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Yes, they mention God alot, but have you ever seen where BF or any of the other FF mention Jesus? |
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Posted: 8/13/2005 4:14:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Was it "Light Horse" Lee who specified in his will that he be buried at least a mile from the nearest church?
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Posted: 8/13/2005 5:06:19 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm pretty sure it was |
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Posted: 8/13/2005 5:52:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Name one strawman you would have liked to be. |
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Posted: 8/13/2005 5:54:39 PM EDT
[#11]
It's all true. I read it in the Koran.
Chapter 6, verse 66
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Posted: 8/14/2005 3:45:50 AM EDT
[#12]
Do you mean a king/pharoah/emperor/chief who convinced his subjects that he was a god? |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 4:02:27 AM EDT
[#13]
+1 elvisp - a vegetable???  Sorry, that was wrong....  |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 5:07:06 AM EDT
[#14]
WOW! You really got me with that one  |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 5:35:44 AM EDT
[#15]
So, he joined a club that liked orgys. Franklin was known to be quite a ladies man.
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Posted: 8/14/2005 6:02:36 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 8/14/2005 6:23:25 AM EDT
[#17]
This is kind of an interesting thread, as it provides evidence that we re-write the past to advance present agendae.
Ben was definitely not a Christian as Christians see themselves today. He was a product and producer of the enlightenment. Gotta go back and read Locke, Rousseau, and his autobio. The guys who were devotees of the bible were not the big boys. Sorry, our founding fathers were a pretty wild bunch. What are they teaching in schools nowadays? |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 6:24:18 AM EDT
[#18]
Godly system is not the same as a theocracy. You are making a strawman argument because you are incapable of arguing the original point. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 7:14:46 AM EDT
[#19]
Seems like this should be in the religion forum - I clicked on a link about Ben Frankin and possible occult ties and got duped into reading "USA is a Christian nation" for the damn 4 millionth time.
ARUGH! |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 9:28:57 AM EDT
[#20]
I never see Ben. I only have electronic Ben's.  The dude is dead. His legacy is forged, be it good or evil. But if you guys enjoy debating history...rock on. |
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Posted: 8/14/2005 3:08:23 PM EDT
[#21]
The point being - Its easy to make specious allegations and darned difficult to disprove them.. |
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