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Posted: 7/16/2001 12:18:32 PM EDT
I say yes. I want to thank this country for letting my German-speaking ancestors come to Ohio in the 1820's. I figure immigration encourages the people with will and determination to make a new life.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 12:24:02 PM EDT
Yes, but not for illegal immigrants, who broke the law to enter this country. If we need 3 Million immigrants every year, open it up to all countrys, not just mexican illegal aliens because they live next door.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 12:25:52 PM EDT
No, It will only encourage more illegal border crossings. Also, unlike 1820, we dont have a vast wilderness to people either. You could ask Austrailia to take them, they have the space: Australia's Dilemma: Populate or Perish As Asia Swells, Some Worry About Loss of Clout By Michael Christie Reuters SYDNEY (July 16) - Nearly three times the size of India, Australia has just two percent of the subcontinent's one billion people. Or put it another way: While 107 people clog each square kilometer of Indonesia, in the archipelago's neighbor to the south, Australians could easily build a giant castle each as there are just 2.3 of them for every square kilometer. With just 19 million people scattered across the sixth biggest country in the world, Australia periodically wrestles with a burning issue -- populate or perish. The debate is bubbling away again as Australia's Asian neighbors continue to swell and some in Australian industry and politics worry about their country becoming an insignificant outpost in a globalized world. It is a particularly hot topic for Admiral Chris Barrie, head of the Australian Defense Force, who is having trouble finding recruits for an expansion of the armed forces. ''If I looked at the next 50 years, I would say one of the most significant challenges we have to address is our standing,'' Barrie told a recent regional security seminar in Sydney. ''We will be significantly outnumbered and potentially our economy will just be a minnow in a very large region.'' BIG COUNTRY Australia is a vast land. The Northern Territory, for example, is five times the size of Britain but, with 190,000 people, has the population of a London suburb. Australians are concentrated on the coasts, in particular the cities of Melbourne and Sydney in the south and southeast. In the rugged outback, roads stretch endlessly through red scrub, deserted except for the occasional kangaroo roadkill. Some farms, or ''stations,'' are as large as European countries. Australia remains an empty land despite a mass migration drive after World War Two, when it feared a Japanese invasion. The population grew rapidly from seven million in 1946. Most immigrants were British or Eastern Europeans, in keeping with the ''White Australia'' policy, which ended in the 1970s. In the last decade, society has become more multiracial, with Asian immigrants overtaking Europeans in the mid-1980s. Faced like other developed nations with an aging population and declining birth rate, Australia continues to import around 100,000 new migrants every year. But the aim is not to grow. It is to keep the population steady so that it will peak at 24 million in the middle of the next century, and to maintain a steady inflow of skilled workers that cannot be found locally. Some feel Australia ought to be making more of an effort, especially as a global battle for skilled migrants heats up among developed nations searching for manpower. Limited.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 12:27:00 PM EDT
MORE SHARING A leading proponent of a renewed immigration push is former conservative prime minister Malcolm Fraser, who wants Australia to aim for a population of 40 million by the end of the century. Fraser believes that Australia's goal in the post Cold War world is to enhance its independence by adding muscle. As a middle power with a middle economy, it also needs to grow its domestic market so that its companies are strong enough to compete on the global stage, and to resist being swallowed up by multinationals with no care for Australia's national interest. ''There is no country in the world where there is such opportunity reserved for so few,'' Fraser said in a recent speech. The proposal to double the population is highly controversial in a country that cherishes its quarter-acre house plots. One of the main arguments against immigration is that Australia is one of the driest land masses in the world. It could not support a larger population. ''In a lot of Australia you simply cannot survive,'' right-wing politician Graeme Campbell told Reuters. Australia cannot be ''Fairy Godmother to the world,'' he says. ''You could take 100 million people out of India, 100 million out of China, and it wouldn't make a scrap of difference to them but give us a living standard like Bangladesh,'' he said. PEOPLE OR SHEEP Environmentalists do not necessarily share the maximum sustainable population argument. Environmental destruction is more tied to land use than population, said Frances MacGuire of Greenpeace. A million sheep can do more damage to a fragile ecosystem than a million people. Despite the end of the White Australia policy, some nationalists also play the race card, opposing Asian immigration in particular as a threat to Australia's cultural identity. The potency of that lobby was made clear in a 1998 election when 10 percent voted for Pauline Hanson's xenophobic One Nation party. One Nation is expected to feature again in a new election conservative Prime Minister John Howard must call by year's end. While backing an influx of skilled migrants to keep the labor force supplied, neither Howard nor the opposition Labor Party appear interested in a new mass migration drive. Yet proponents of immigration say there may be more at stake than merely occupying empty land. As some other developed countries become more multiracial, Australia could become sidelined as a white anomaly. Canada, for one, is wooing 235,000 new migrants a year in a policy aimed partly at making it a mirror of the world's racial mix. ''I do wonder what private thoughts and assumptions the next generation of Canadians would harbor about an Australia that has chosen, for whatever reasons, to remain overwhelmingly white,'' Canadian intellectual Gwynne Dyer said in Sydney this year. Reut21:47 07-15-01 Copyright 2001 Reuters
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 12:48:22 PM EDT
I say yes. I want to thank this country for letting my German-speaking ancestors come to Ohio in the 1820's. I figure immigration encourages the people with will and determination to make a new life.
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Good. Then you'll have no problem with paying double taxes to support them. Oh...you want the REST of us to suport them? Thought so. The situation in 1820 was just a little different.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 12:57:34 PM EDT
Why not, they have bigger balls then Americans, their rebellion in south mexico proves that!!!!
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 12:59:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Celt:
I say yes. I want to thank this country for letting my German-speaking ancestors come to Ohio in the 1820's. I figure immigration encourages the people with will and determination to make a new life.
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Good. Then you'll have no problem with paying double taxes to support them. Oh...you want the REST of us to suport them? Thought so. The situation in 1820 was just a little different.
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Thank you, Celt.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 1:01:34 PM EDT
If they're here illegally NO way!
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 1:03:06 PM EDT
Sure, if it means that Republicans finally start winning the minority vote which has exclusively belonged to Democrats.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 1:06:58 PM EDT
NO! for all reasons listed
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 1:17:12 PM EDT
I agree with ArmdLbrl and Celt. It was way different back in the 1800's and things are already crowded as it is. The last thing America needs is more people "feasting from the trough". 3,000,000 mexicans would probably cause the economy to crash!
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 1:23:49 PM EDT
I'm moving to Mexico...the place is going to be empty soon. They'll all be here. Why don't we just build 'em all houses, buy 'em all a car, give 'em a life long annuity and be done with it. Whatever happened to border, language and culture? OUR bORDER? OUR LANGUAGE? OUR CULTURE? Damned politicians!!!
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 1:37:52 PM EDT
I can't imagine the US taking another few million Mexican immigrant, like we couldn't take a few hundred thousand so-called 'asylum seekers'. Make a simple law that your existence is only acknowledged if you entered the US lawfully. If not, you're a valid target for any US citizen, no penal prosecution for shooting them. If somebody really needs political asylum, they'll request it at the border.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 1:47:19 PM EDT
Mexican Australians?!@#!@ ROFLMAO No, I don't want anymore than we already let in a year. So they broke away, let em start their own country, not add to the welfare dependents in this country. If they want to work, that is good, but we don't need any more moochers. Who is going to make sure that they have jobs and support themselves? Ice
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 2:00:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2001 2:17:52 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
If they want to become US citizens so bad, enlist in the US Military for a 5-6 year hitch, do that and I wouldnt mind them having citizenship. Of course we couldnt take more than a hundred thousand or so a year, the military just doesnt have the spots anymore. And they would have to speek some english. People like to forget them, but anyone remember the Know Nothings? A conbination secret society, hence the name, and political party that ran presidential cannidates for several elections prior to the Civil War, with a platform centered on keeping the Germans and Irish out!! What killed off the Know Nothings? The tremendous support showed by the Germans and Irish for the Union during the Mexican and Civil Wars. Or if you dont remember your high school US history, go rent Gladiator. Maximus was from Spain, an conqured provence, occupied by Celts at the time. Yet he served most of his adult life in its army. "Rome is the light" he said, even though he had never been there. Rome gave citizenship and land to those who served in its legions for a full term, and settled the retirees all across their empire. This kept their country intact, even as Rome struggled through chaos in its government.(Between Marcus Aruilius, shown in the movie, and the reformer Diocletian, 102 years later, Rome had 81 emperors, including three in a single year, none ruled more than 3 years and only one died of natural causes) The end came when Rome let Gothic tribes settle within their borders, and allowed them to [i]remain autonomous[/i] and self governing in return for [i]peace with them.[/i] They permitted them to have self governance over their own people within their assigned territory, and worst of all gave them the resposablity of securing those sections of the border along which they had settled. Sound familliar?
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 2:29:00 PM EDT
I deal with illegal immigrants all of the time. Most of them do not want to become US citizens; they are only here working to provide a decent standard of living for their families in Mexico. They mostly work 60-80 hour weeks and live as cheaply as possible. These folks are not the kind of people who you have to worry about clogging up the welfare rolls. The real solution for these folks is to make a long-term work permit to allow them to legally enter the country to take employment, as long as the unemployment rate stays low. These are hard-working, honest folks, and they deserve the same kind of consideration our great-grandparents got.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 2:31:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By natez: I deal with illegal immigrants all of the time. Most of them do not want to become US citizens; they are only here working to provide a decent standard of living for their families in Mexico. They mostly work 60-80 hour weeks and live as cheaply as possible. These folks are not the kind of people who you have to worry about clogging up the welfare rolls. The real solution for these folks is to make a long-term work permit to allow them to legally enter the country to take employment, as long as the unemployment rate stays low. These are hard-working, honest folks, and they deserve the same kind of consideration our great-grandparents got.
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Bring back the [i]bracieros[/i], not a bad idea. I would support that.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 2:35:31 PM EDT
If your here legally, you work your ass off and pay taxes...Welcome aboard...Otherwise... GTFO... Sorry for the rant.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 2:45:01 PM EDT
Letting 3Mil ILLEGAL immigrants have citizenship reqards law breakers. They do not assimilate. It makes being an American cheaper. Many are honest hardworking. So? The public cost to local and state governments outstrips their contributions. We devaluating what it is to be an American. America is going downhill fast. Our government does not take responsibility for their actions. As it is, social security is broke. Let mexicans come over in assist in bankrupting America. Damn the politicians. Our borders are a joke. Wait until more terrorism invades americal. NFTAA is killing us. Sorry for being on my soapbox folks but this pisses me off. Thanks
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 3:20:13 PM EDT
No! Issue them work permits and let them abide by the same laws we live by, i.e. carry auto insurance, pay income taxes etc. The 1st generation Mexican Nationals are usually hard working but the subsequent generatons are the "gimme generation". More energy is spent working the welfare system rather than the same work their Parents did. How many here have been to Los Angles or any of the other south west states and witnessed the grafitti and destruction caused by the Mexican gangs? We would be better off to cut new borders, give LA back to Mexico and let them deal with it because we never will.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 3:39:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chaingun: Yes, but not for illegal immigrants, who broke the law to enter this country.
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I believe the proposal is for illegals who are already in the country. But as someone else already stated, a lot of these people are hardworking people, for whom a US citizenship would mean an increase in their wages.
If we need 3 Million immigrants every year, open it up to all countrys, not just mexican illegal aliens because they live next door.
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As a Swedish citizen who's trying to stay in the US I second that motion (and if any of you are wondering I've paid taxes (24%) in the US since '97, I've legally held jobs whilst being a fulltime student, and I've never tried to get a single cent from the government.)
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 3:51:45 PM EDT
Legal citizens? NO !!! Permanent resident alien status? MAYBE- provided that this would not entail their mouths on the Gov'ts tit!
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 4:13:33 PM EDT
Celt for president, ArmdLbrl for VP. Now that's something I'd vote for!! idaho-ar15
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 4:37:49 PM EDT
Well dont pat me on the back too hard. Fundimentally I only beleve in one requirement for a work visa, or even citizenship. [b]Speak English!![/b] There are too many other languages in the world to FORCE Americans to learn more than one language, although being multi-lingual is a big advantage in todays job market. But everyone in the rest of the world can be asked to learn to speak English if they want to move here since that would only mean that they have to learn ONE additional language. If you speak English, we can teach you, and while you may arrive a laborer you can learn to improve and get a better job. But people who want to reside here or work here and think that they dont have to learn our language and obey our customs and laws really piss me off. My only thoughts on numbers are that Mexicans have a unfair advantage over other countries because they can simply walk to get here. Admission of Mexicans for residency or citizenship should be proportional to to Mexico's share of the world population. Lots of other people in the rest of the world want to come here too, and Mexico hoggs more than their share of the available jobs.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 4:46:47 PM EDT
ArmdLbrl, you read my mind. When I attented high school 15 years ago we where forced to learn spanish. The spanish speaking kids thought it was great, they already knew it. When it came to english class the mexicans care less if they learned on word. At my local college they give every mexican who can't speak english a brand new laptop to help them along. idaho-ar15
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 4:47:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2001 4:45:53 PM EDT by Mulder]
SURE!! send them all to California they wouldn't know the difference HAHA [0j] [heavy] Deep from within Area51 Mulder out.............
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 4:56:00 PM EDT
Well... HELL NO! I am not being racist, but we have more people than jobs as it is. Tyler
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 5:26:48 PM EDT
Leaving racism out of this. I think enough mexicans are getting my money anyway. I would be all for it if you rounded up all the illegals and sent them back home without their government money, but that will never happen. And I HATE that law that says when mama mexican runs accross the border and has her kid, with the money in my wallet, in our hospital, that it will be a citizen. Lets give jobs to americans first. And don't say I am racist or I will kill you. OK I won't kill you, but here is my proof. I am dating one and have been for two years now.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 5:36:40 PM EDT
hey we did it about 10 years ago why not again. that just goes to show you a small amount that we have started to let in illegally. I might not like it but at least red china is not next door.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 5:42:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2001 5:40:31 PM EDT by BigZ]
[b]NO WAY! Send them all back![/b] Yeah, 2 million new Democrats. Oh, don't forget those 3mil will become 5mil in 20 yrs. When will there be enough people in this country? I guess no one will be satisfied until we're packed in like sardines! Let's just wait until it's too late to do something about the population explosion we are experiencing. The time to act is now! While we have the voting power. In 20yrs we won't be able to pass any legislation to reduce/eliminate any form of immigration.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 5:43:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 6:30:07 PM EDT
We should just make Mexico another US State, or give it special privileges like Puerto Rico. Doing that actually cuts down on the abuses. Make them pay taxes (or even better, do away with taxes). I live in an area with *a lot* of Mexicans (or wherever they came from). Sometimes it is really trying on my patience. We can't have it both ways--open borders and a welfare state. Pick one or the other.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 6:30:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2001 6:29:01 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
Get serious! If the Bush Administration permits these 3 million to stay and become citizens, how in the heck will the USA keep more from coming? The ones left behind will rightly figure that it will only be a matter of time before THEY receive amnesty. We should have 'frozen' new immigration in 1966, with percentages of new immigrants based upon the then-present national origins of our citizens. In Exodus, the Israelites got into trouble in Egypt when a pharaoh rose to power 'who knew not Joseph.' We are on the verge of some real trouble here when there arises a generation of citizens who 'know not George Washington.' Eric The(LadyLiberty,PutOutThatTorch!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 6:40:15 PM EDT
NO NO NO!!!!!!! We have no need for them. There are enough people who don't speek english here already. How much do you want to bet that 50-70% of them would be on welfare almost instantly. Their un-educated, un-trained, un-trainable wastes of my tax dollars. Sounds like alot of liberal democrats, we don't need any more of those. We should stop all illegal imigration with deadly force.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 6:59:32 PM EDT
No!... that's English for "NO"
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 7:07:22 PM EDT
Hell no way! Those sucker will increase my taxing and steal our woman! My aunt live Three mile from Dallas knew what I'm talk about.
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