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Posted: 7/16/2001 8:23:35 AM EDT
I think Charlie Sheen says the year is 1968 when the movie first starts. I noticed that some of the guys were carrying traditional 20" M16, but some had short hand guards 16" barrels and telestocks. When did those features get introduced?
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 8:26:55 AM EDT
I think that those were introduced very early in the war. They were used by advisors and SF. They had disignations that started with XM. If I am wrong I hope someone corrects me. I am going by what I think I remember from the History channel. [:)]
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 8:40:16 AM EDT
i think those 'car15's go under the technical error section. to the best of my knowledge, these were never colt 'carbines' without the xm177 noise reducers used in RVN. my guess is the movie was made in the PI's and that is what the PI army uses and so that's what was used as it was on hand. kudos for sticking to 20 round mags vs. going hollywood with 30's as they look cooler. steve
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 12:00:58 PM EDT
My manual on the XM177E2 is dated July 1967, so they were in existance by that time, tho they were probably just getting the first batch over to VN about then. The beercan type flash suppressor was made w/ a series of radial grooves inside that was supposed reduce the noise of the shot to about full size M16 levels. In no sense was it a silencer, but the whiz kida at BATF decided that if it cut the sound at all, it was a silencer.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 12:10:32 PM EDT
I had both 30 rd mags and locally manufactured 40 round M16 mags VietNam back in 69-70..been a while but I think the 30 roundrs were Fed Ord... We had lots of the Colt CAR versions with the elonged flash hiders standard issue to our LRRP teams in the 9th and platoon leaders had the option of them...they became more of a status symbol for the 2nd Louies
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 12:58:58 PM EDT
They were'nt CAR-15's. CAR-15's have 10in. barrels. Those in "Platoon" had 16in barrels. 16 barrels did not exist back then. The military has never used a 16in carbine either.They used the shorty CAR's or M-4 when they came out.The possible exception would be any special operation forces that had big budgets and could buy their own stuff. As I recall I have a book on Navy SEALs with the cover picture being of a operator coming out of the water with a 16in carbine{also had a 40rd mag}
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 1:25:09 PM EDT
could have sworn i saw some m16a2's
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 1:28:42 PM EDT
What I really noticed in this movie is that all the guys had forward assist on their uppers and I thought that it wasn't used until the early 70's? And now that I think about it, when did the civilian AR15's get the forward assist option?
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 1:30:57 PM EDT
The first CAR15 was this: [img]http://www.softgunner.com/produkter/bilder/coltcar15.jpg[/img] 10" barrel, shortened A1 handguard and a telestock not used after this particular type of weapon. The 10" XM177(USAF version) and 10" XM177E1(Army) followed this first one. The final "CAR15" was the XM177E2 with a 11.5" barrel: [img]http://www.softgunner.com/produkter/bilder/coltxm177e2.jpg[/img] The weapon used by Barnes in Platoon had a thin 16" barrel, it looks like a SP1 carbine to me. Reasons why the XM series of carbines faded away -In Nov. 68 Colt estimated that it would take 400 000$ and six months to complete a ballistic/kinematic study of it. - In Dec. 68 it was recommended that the XM177E2 be reoriented to a 29month, 635 000$ R&D program, this recommedation was ignored, and the production of the "Commando" series went out. - And in the mid 70s the BATF decided that the noise and flash suppressor was a true suppressor under tha law. And with Carter administrations decision prohibiting the export sales of suppressors, the sales of the XM177E2 received the final blow. The above reasons are taken from The Black Rifle.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 1:37:11 PM EDT
As for the forward assist, all M16's I ever had at Fort Polk or VN had it. This was from June 1969 to Sept.70.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 2:44:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cyrax777: could have sworn i saw some m16a2's
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I might be wrong cyrax777, but I was happy to notice in the movie that they were A1's. I bought the movie in Feb., I think? I was watching really close the last time I watched it to see how accurate the guns were. I was happy to see the A1's and not A2's. Maybe I missed a scene? guns762
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 3:06:45 PM EDT
Sigman is correct that the military NEVER used a 16" barrel. That length is for civilian versions simply to comply with the law. They would never issue somthing that a bayo would "almost" fit onto (Thats why the M4 has a 14.5" barrel) A 14.5" barrel also preserves the length of barrel that effects the gas system (the distance from the take off port in the barrel to the muzzle-the way Stoner designed it. This distance is exactly the same on an M4 barrel as it is in a 20" barrel). I think there were very early carbines issued with 10.5" barrels without the supressor that had way too much muzzle flash and were way too loud. Foreward assist was a standard feature of the XM16E1 first fielded in 1965. The much more common M16A1 (I think came out in 1967 or 68) of course had it) No SP1 had foreward assist and they were made untill 1984. The first civillian model with foreward assist was in the mid 80s. A common modification to early SP1s was to add an upper with the FA to make it look more "military".
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 3:18:57 PM EDT
They did have some A2's Sheen had one near the beginning when he was lugging too much gear. and was getting light headed. CHEF
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 3:34:18 PM EDT
Movie prop screw-ups... I saw an M16A2 and a 16" CAR with A2 style grips. The 16" was probably due to SBR requirements. That's my guess anyhow.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 3:41:43 PM EDT
movie was filmed in the phillipines, with gear on loan from the phillipine army. p. army- big customer for colts 16" carbines. yeah, bothered me too.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 3:47:21 PM EDT
No 16" barrel carbines used by the Philippines army, they purchased over 50 000 pieces of Colt´s model 613(export version of 603) for their army. In 1967 Elisco Tool Company of Manila started to manufacture the M16A1 under licence from Colt, it was called the 613-P. They also made a version of the Colt M653, it was called the 653-P, 14.5" barrel. I still think that the carbine carried by Barnes in Platoon was a 16" barrel carbine, the SP series carbine comes to mind.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 3:49:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2001 3:47:04 PM EDT by Derek45]
M16A1's with forward assist were correct for Vietnam era. When the 7th Cavalry went into the Ia Drang Valley in Nov. 1965, they had forward assist's on there rifles. CAR-15's with skinny 16''or 14'' carbine barrels were [b]not[/b] correct. This was a Hollywood error. "Tuukka" is correct. They should have used 11.5'' XM177E2's in the movie.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 3:58:07 PM EDT
hmmmm. blows my theroy.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 10:14:13 PM EDT
The weapons used in Platoon are Colt 653s made under license in the Phillipines by Elisco Tool Company. They're the standard Colt M16A1 Carbine with a 14.5" Barrel. The 14.5" barrel was not available untill circa 1975 so it's not correct for the 67/68 time period. All CAR15/XM type weapons used during Vietnam had either the 10 or 11.5" barrels with a 3.5-4.5" moderators. XM177 10" XM177e1 10" XM177E2 11.5" The 14.5" barreled Colt 653 were used in small numbers by all branchs of the US Military(NSN 1005-01-029-3866) until the XM4 project started in early 1985. All the M16's used in Platoon were A1's made by Elisco or Colt and were provided by the Phillipine Military to Oliver Stones Production Company.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 10:27:39 PM EDT
At least their fingers were off the triggers when they were on patrol.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 8:26:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Colt-653: The weapons used in Platoon are Colt 653s made under license in the Phillipines by Elisco Tool Company. They're the standard Colt M16A1 Carbine with a 14.5" Barrel. The 14.5" barrel was not available untill circa 1975 so it's not correct for the 67/68 time period. All CAR15/XM type weapons used during Vietnam had either the 10 or 11.5" barrels with a 3.5-4.5" moderators. XM177 10" XM177e1 10" XM177E2 11.5" The 14.5" barreled Colt 653 were used in small numbers by all branchs of the US Military(NSN 1005-01-029-3866) until the XM4 project started in early 1985. All the M16's used in Platoon were A1's made by Elisco or Colt and were provided by the Phillipine Military to Oliver Stones Production Company.
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Well. i think a large part of this was posted by someone earlier [:)]
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:15:59 AM EDT
There weren't any A2s in the movie (just got done watching it). I did, however, notice the Model 870 Remington with the deer barrel that Kevin Dillon (Bunny; Matt Dillon's brother, bit the chunk out of the beer can for the LT) carried and I don't think that that was correct for the time either (and it didn't even have an extended magazine). The A2s that everyone thinks that they're seeing are A1s with duct tape around the handguards. Another minor item is the choice in music; the movie was supposed to take place in '68, yet Kevin Dillon is listening to Merle Haggard's [i]"Okie From Muskogee"[/i] ("That's a kick-ass song!"). [i]"Okie From Muskogee"[/i] wasn't released until '69.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 9:43:28 AM EDT
Hey Tuukka, interesting picture of the first CAR-15. I’ve never seen it anywhere before. Looks a little bit like a downsized picture of a M16A1, hehe, except of the flash suppressor. I always thought the XM177E1 and E2 where the first CAR-15 and had telestocks from the start. I could go wrong...
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:13:37 AM EDT
Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 7/17/2001 10:14:32 AM EDT
Actually the CAR15 series of weapons was a whole siderange of experimental weapons, ranging from shorties to Squad weapons. Check Ezell's the Black rifle for pics and data. Kuiper
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