Congress increases jet fuel prices because truckers have been using it instead of diesel - Page 2

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Posted: 8/5/2005 6:32:50 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
+1 on the confusion of jet fuel in desiel engins some how I don't think this story is accurate.

I do. We fueled the ship's motor boat with JP-5 straight from the aviation fule system. The pipe leading to the hose was purple, and any snipe or ABF knows exactly what that is.

Posted: 8/5/2005 6:41:35 PM EDT

[#2]

Do they check only commercial vehicles? I just have a diesel pick-up. I think if anyone tried to take a sample from my tank, I'd "just say no". I've never used anything but fuel from the gas station, but I like knowing I could run it on heating oil if I had to.

Posted: 8/5/2005 6:41:59 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???

Jet A is nothing but highly refined, highly filtered kerosene with anti gel and anti icing additives.

Depends on where you get your Jet A. Commercial jets pretty much run with no additive,however,FBO's Jet A may have the additive,or it is added while the A/C is being fueled.(Prist,is what we used in when I fueled in the NG,and at the FBO in Cincy,can be real nasty stuff)

Posted: 8/5/2005 6:46:20 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Do they check only commercial vehicles? I just have a diesel pick-up. I think if anyone tried to take a sample from my tank, I'd "just say no". I've never used anything but fuel from the gas station, but I like knowing I could run it on heating oil if I had to.

I have been checked in both my pickups, whitch are diesel, for red fuel. Mostly at county or state fairs, 4-H events, antique tractor shows, etc. Any place were there is going to be a concentration of farmers that have easy access to off road diesel.

I have also been checked at a routine "safety" inspection on the hiway. You can say no, but it will only make you look like you are hiding somthing. I have never run red fuel in my pickups, so I am not too worried about getting in trouble.

Posted: 8/5/2005 6:49:04 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Do they check only commercial vehicles? I just have a diesel pick-up. I think if anyone tried to take a sample from my tank, I'd "just say no". I've never used anything but fuel from the gas station, but I like knowing I could run it on heating oil if I had to.

I've only seen it done when the quarterly checks are done on the tractors.

Posted: 8/5/2005 6:52:36 PM EDT

[#6]

I'm lost... today, when a chick called in to Rush to bitch about gas prices, he said something like "I know exactly how you feel. Do you have any idea how much jet-fuel costs? It's nearly $6/gallon!"
I busted out laughing.

What's avgas cost?
It's got to be cheaper than the $5/gallon 113 octane stuff I run in my fun car.

Posted: 8/5/2005 6:53:24 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I have been checked in both my pickups, whitch are diesel, for red fuel. Mostly at county or state fairs, 4-H events, antique tractor shows, etc. Any place were there is going to be a concentration of farmers that have easy access to off road diesel.

I have also been checked at a routine "safety" inspection on the hiway. You can say no, but it will only make you look like you are hiding somthing. I have never run red fuel in my pickups, so I am not too worried about getting in trouble.

I've never run dyed fuel, either, but I object to what amounts to warrantless searches of my personal vehicle. So what do they do if you say "No thanks"?

(This is coming from a guy who wouldn't open his cooler for the Marine Patrol even though it was empty. I just have a problem with authority, I guess.)

Posted: 8/5/2005 6:53:58 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???

Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben

Avgas is different than jet fuel. Cessnas use avgas.

Isn't jet fuel dyed blue, and fuel oil dyed red or pink, so that they can check your tank to see that you're using diesel as properly taxed?

I would be happy to top off your Caravan or Citation with 100LL. Have you checked the batteries in your ELT lately?

Posted: 8/5/2005 6:56:37 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
how is color coding supposed to help you avoid putting the wrong fuel in?

it's not like you see it as it rushes out of the hose (At least not on a car).

I was a pilot too and as said, during your preflight you sump the tanks and check for water and correct fuel. Also, I was taught that even if you watch the guy fuel your plane you alway sclimb up and look to make sure he topped you up, put the right shit in, and to make sure the cap is on correctly because an improperly installed cap can result in fuel loss as the air flow over the wing sucks it out. Having been one, I know that fuelers are not always all there. When fueling though, I had some pilots/flight engineers do some stupid shit too.

Once I fueled a United flight with a bad fuel guage for one of the wing tanks so we had to "stick" the tank. I got the stick readings from the first officer who looked it up in his manual, fueled the tank to that level and then got to thinking about the figure I had been given, seemed hinky so I sticked the same tank on the opposite wing which should have the same amount of fuel in it. It didn't, so I went up to the cockpit and told the first officer that he must have made a mistake. Well damned if I didn't get a chewing from both the captain and the first, but I was adamant that they were 6000 lbs too heavy on one side and told them (and this really pissed them off), "when you rotate, you'll find out won't you?" So I leave and walk into operations and I guess the pilot had second thoughts because he called into ops and had them look up the numbers. Sure as shit he was 6000 lbs out of balance from one wing to another. Fuelers don't know shit and this wasn't the first or last time I had something similar happen.

Posted: 8/5/2005 6:57:20 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
DOD is trying to get into a single fuel battle field.

JP will be the winner. Jets, Tanks, Trucks and Hummers all will operate (one day) on the same fuel. I am sure the little dune buggies and bikes will not be part of it. But even some of the RHIB's have tested with it.

Jet Fuel is like a highly refined diesel. Thats why in a puddle it is harmless, vaporize it (ie a crash) and all heck break loose.

Posted: 8/5/2005 6:58:41 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
When testing on a truck,there is a spigot at the bottom of the fuel filters(about the size of a 20 gal trashcan),you take a white bowl and open the spigot,water will appear as bubbles on the bottom,plus rust,filter matter,which will also appear. Also,the filter effectiveness is also tested,once a month if I remember,its known as the milipore test(I got alot of overtime doing that).

Yeah, I did a bunch of those. We also ran the tank farm. I can still smell the stink of Jet A!

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:01:57 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???

Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben

Cessna made jets?
Yes, they do. Citation come to mind?

when was the last time you saw a guy named bubba leaving his citation outside?

i thought Chevy made Citations? what are we talking about again? i'm gonna go lay down now.

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:02:31 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???

Jet A is nothing but highly refined, highly filtered kerosene with anti gel and anti icing additives.
Depends on where you get your Jet A. Commercial jets pretty much run with no additive,however,FBO's Jet A may have the additive,or it is added while the A/C is being fueled.(Prist,is what we used in when I fueled in the NG,and at the FBO in Cincy,can be real nasty stuff)

Yeah, prist is the anti-icing additive and we only put it in FedEx's little Falcons. None in the big boys.

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:02:47 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
I'm lost... today, when a chick called in to Rush to bitch about gas prices, he said something like "I know exactly how you feel. Do you have any idea how much jet-fuel costs? It's nearly $6/gallon!"
I busted out laughing.

What's avgas cost?
It's got to be cheaper than the $5/gallon 113 octane stuff I run in my fun car.

The more you buy,the cheaper it gets. Used to love it when a big fat G-IV came in. Nice,big fat tip,and usually a good looking stew to oogle at. Jet A/AvGas ain't cheap especially when taxes thrown in.

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:05:00 PM EDT

[#15]

At the 55 Gallon drum level, what would one expect to pay for some avgas, maybe 115 Octane?

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:07:27 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
When testing on a truck,there is a spigot at the bottom of the fuel filters(about the size of a 20 gal trashcan),you take a white bowl and open the spigot,water will appear as bubbles on the bottom,plus rust,filter matter,which will also appear. Also,the filter effectiveness is also tested,once a month if I remember,its known as the milipore test(I got alot of overtime doing that).

Yeah, I did a bunch of those. We also ran the tank farm. I can still smell the stink of Jet A!

I can too!!!! And those ratty-assed fuel tenders,damned they were junk! Had a helluva time keeping those air lines from freezing up. Never forget that!

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:12:31 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
how is color coding supposed to help you avoid putting the wrong fuel in?

it's not like you see it as it rushes out of the hose (At least not on a car).

I was a pilot too and as said, during your preflight you sump the tanks and check for water and correct fuel. Also, I was taught that even if you watch the guy fuel your plane you alway sclimb up and look to make sure he topped you up, put the right shit in, and to make sure the cap is on correctly because an improperly installed cap can result in fuel loss as the air flow over the wing sucks it out. Having been one, I know that fuelers are not always all there. When fueling though, I had some pilots/flight engineers do some stupid shit too.

Once I fueled a United flight with a bad fuel guage for one of the wing tanks so we had to "stick" the tank. I got the stick readings from the first officer who looked it up in his manual, fueled the tank to that level and then got to thinking about the figure I had been given, seemed hinky so I sticked the same tank on the opposite wing which should have the same amount of fuel in it. It didn't, so I went up to the cockpit and told the first officer that he must have made a mistake. Well damned if I didn't get a chewing from both the captain and the first, but I was adamant that they were 6000 lbs too heavy on one side and told them (and this really pissed them off), "when you rotate, you'll find out won't you?" So I leave and walk into operations and I guess the pilot had second thoughts because he called into ops and had them look up the numbers. Sure as shit he was 6000 lbs out of balance from one wing to another. Fuelers don't know shit and this wasn't the first or last time I had something similar happen.

UAL sure was a bitch to fuel,always had to have a calculator handy! Many,many bad guages,lots of defuels(beating the hell outa the pumps,engines ect......

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:13:51 PM EDT

[#18]

how much are plane tickets going up to compensate?

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:15:49 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???

Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben

Cessna made jets?
Yes, they do. Citation come to mind?

when was the last time you saw a guy named bubba leaving his citation outside?

i thought Chevy made Citations? what are we talking about again? i'm gonna go lay down now.

A Cessna Citation is what you get after you win the powerball,twin engine,tough little jet. Was one of the reasons why the Beechcraft Starship never got off the ground with customers.

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:19:44 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
At the 55 Gallon drum level, what would one expect to pay for some avgas, maybe 115 Octane?

If you're thinking of running it in your car,vapor lock may be a problem,it evaporates in less time than it takes to tell about it.(real helpful when you have a spill)

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:19:53 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Now my question is?? when is the last time you were pulled over for someone to look at your fuel???

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???

Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben

Avgas is different than jet fuel. Cessnas use avgas.

Isn't jet fuel dyed blue, and fuel oil dyed red or pink, so that they can check your tank to see that you're using diesel as properly taxed?

Semis are pulled over a lot to look at their tanks.

And regular vehicles are checked usually only when suspicious or "Anonymous tips" are given.

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:23:02 PM EDT

[#22]

My dad used to put Kerosene in his diesel Caddy to clean out the injectors he said. I heard you can run Diesel engine on home heating oil.

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:35:13 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
My dad used to put Kerosene in his diesel Caddy to clean out the injectors he said. I heard you can run Diesel engine on home heating oil.

Used to bring Jet A to run the Kerosene heater,it ran hotter,but WTH,we were damned near broke airline employees.

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:36:54 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???

Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben

Cessna made jets?
Yes, they do. Citation come to mind?

Chevy citation.

when was the last time you saw a guy named bubba leaving his citation outside?

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:38:21 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Now my question is?? when is the last time you were pulled over for someone to look at your fuel???

Happens all of the time around here. The cops check to make sure that farmers aren't running diesel in their pickups that they bought to use in their tractors or heaters that hasn't had the highway tax paid. It's a very profitable stop since it involves large fines, towing the vehicle, and storage fees.z

It sounds like Britian in WWII. The .gov dyed the commerical fuel to catch black marketeers. They learned to just filter it through a gas mask filter and no more dye.

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:48:11 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I have been checked in both my pickups, whitch are diesel, for red fuel. Mostly at county or state fairs, 4-H events, antique tractor shows, etc. Any place were there is going to be a concentration of farmers that have easy access to off road diesel.

I have also been checked at a routine "safety" inspection on the hiway. You can say no, but it will only make you look like you are hiding somthing. I have never run red fuel in my pickups, so I am not too worried about getting in trouble.

I've never run dyed fuel, either, but I object to what amounts to warrantless searches of my personal vehicle. So what do they do if you say "No thanks"?

(This is coming from a guy who wouldn't open his cooler for the Marine Patrol even though it was empty. I just have a problem with authority, I guess.)

I duno what would happen if you say "no, you can't check my fuel." The cop might get pissed, taze you, and shoot your dog for not cooperating.

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:53:34 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Now my question is?? when is the last time you were pulled over for someone to look at your fuel???

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???

Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben

Avgas is different than jet fuel. Cessnas use avgas.

Isn't jet fuel dyed blue, and fuel oil dyed red or pink, so that they can check your tank to see that you're using diesel as properly taxed?

Semis are pulled over a lot to look at their tanks.

And regular vehicles are checked usually only when suspicious or "Anonymous tips" are given.

My fuel hasn't beed checked in 1.2 million miles

Posted: 8/5/2005 8:01:31 PM EDT

[#28]

I have a quick question: if CA LEO types are trained to look for tailpipes with pinkish or reddish tints to them from running jet fuel or offroad diesel, then I wonder how much air pollution is directly related to dye.

Posted: 8/5/2005 8:01:38 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
+1 on the confusion of jet fuel in desiel engins some how I don't think this story is accurate.

I do. We fueled the ship's motor boat with JP-5 straight from the aviation fule system. The pipe leading to the hose was purple, and any snipe or ABF knows exactly what that is.

Sure do.

ex-Oil King here.

Diesel engines love this stuff.

Here goes:

JP-5 specs (Navy)(IRRC)

-NATO DESIG= F44

-Flashpoint= >140deg. F.

-API gravity= usually 34-38 in my experience

-Color= Light straw to Amber, Sometimes completely colorless

-Allowed solids= 10mg/L (from delivery ship or barge) or 2.64mg/L (filter/coalescer discharge or delivery to aircraft)

-Allowed water= <5ppm (aircraft delivery)

-Allowed combined sediment & water (BS&W)= .01%

-FSII (anti icing aditive)= .06% (can't remember the correct unit)min for delivery to NATO aircraft

I think the argument that JP-5 is a poor lubricant is a moot point. Yes, it is inferior in this aspect
but if it is good enough to be the sole source of lubrication for a Hydro-mechanical gas turbine
Main Fuel Control I fail to see how it couldn't handle keeping up with a an engine that is designed to ingest a far dirtier fuel.

Posted: 8/5/2005 8:06:38 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
I have a quick question: if CA LEO types are trained to look for tailpipes with pinkish or reddish tints to them from running jet fuel or offroad diesel, then I wonder how much air pollution is directly related to dye.

There will not be a tint to the tailpipe or exhaust of a truck running dyed off road fuel. Only way to tell if it is off hiway fuel is to dip a sample out of the tank, or drain some out of the fuel filter.

The dye will stay in the fuel filter for a long time, even though you are no longer using off road fuel. You can have green (road legal) fuel in the tank, but a sample at the filter housing will have red dye in it if you have used off road fuel any time with the current fuel filters.

Posted: 8/5/2005 8:06:44 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Now my question is?? when is the last time you were pulled over for someone to look at your fuel???

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Jet fuel works in diesel engines???

Heck, and this whole time I've been feeding my Benz 2.24 a gallon diesel when I could have siphoned some off of bubba's parked Cessna...

Man I feel cheated.

Ben

Avgas is different than jet fuel. Cessnas use avgas.

Isn't jet fuel dyed blue, and fuel oil dyed red or pink, so that they can check your tank to see that you're using diesel as properly taxed?

Semis are pulled over a lot to look at their tanks.

And regular vehicles are checked usually only when suspicious or "Anonymous tips" are given.

My fuel hasn't beed checked in 1.2 million miles

Ever come through Kansas?

They check alot here.

Posted: 8/5/2005 8:14:46 PM EDT

[#32]

Gee, I suppose you could tell the nice DOT officer that he\she can't sample your tank; but then I would expect you would be told that you couldn't drive that particular vehicle any more.

If you told them to "fuck off" things would get even more interesting. Let me know how that turns out.

Posted: 8/5/2005 8:21:08 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Gee, I suppose you could tell the nice DOT officer that he\she can't sample your tank; but then I would expect you would be told that you couldn't drive that particular vehicle any more.

If you told them to "fuck off" things would get even more interesting. Let me know how that turns out.

Sure hope you're not in a hurry,cause the DOT's gonna take you apart!

Posted: 8/5/2005 8:23:58 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Gee, I suppose you could tell the nice DOT officer that he\she can't sample your tank; but then I would expect you would be told that you couldn't drive that particular vehicle any more.

If you told them to "fuck off" things would get even more interesting. Let me know how that turns out.

I'm not sure all the powers that State Troopers/Motor Carrier Inspectors have but, :thumbup:.

In the state of Kansas, if you get caught with Red-Dye, its something like $5000 or $10,000 a gallon fine and $5,000 just for having it.

So, it can get pretty expensive if you are caught with it in "not-applicable uses".

Posted: 8/5/2005 8:43:53 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
i thought Chevy made Citations? what are we talking about again? i'm gonna go lay down now.

How about THIS Citation?

Cessna Citation X, with top speed of Mach.92, the fastest business jet in the world. Made in Wichita, Kansas; the World's Air Capital.

Posted: 8/5/2005 8:50:08 PM EDT

[#36]

As I always say:
Republicans/Democrats = Same Shit/Different Stink
Higher taxes, less freedom, politics as usual....

And as a Citation Driver, humm... The Citation X is THE fastest civilian jet, in production, in the world.

myitinaw

Posted: 8/5/2005 8:54:22 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
i thought Chevy made Citations? what are we talking about again? i'm gonna go lay down now.

How about THIS Citation?

Cessna Citation X, with top speed of Mach.92, the fastest business jet in the world. Made in Wichita, Kansas; the World's Air Capital.

citationx.cessna.com/wallpaper/center_photo_04.jpg

Wichita,known among us drivers as "plane city," didn't Catfish Hunter crash in a Citation I?

Posted: 8/5/2005 9:10:15 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
...
Isn't jet fuel dyed blue, and fuel oil dyed red or pink, so that they can check your tank to see that you're using diesel as properly taxed?

Not sure about civilian fuel but the fuel used in military jets is pinkish, and the California Highway Patrol looks for pink residue on car and truck exhaust systems.

I've been in the AF almost 11 years and I have never seen pink JP-8.

Posted: 8/5/2005 9:15:18 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
As I always say:
Republicans/Democrats = Same Shit/Different Stink
Higher taxes, less freedom, politics as usual....

And as a Citation Driver, humm... The Citation X is THE fastest civilian jet, in production, in the world.

myitinaw

I'd rather have one of these:

I worked on that line as a mfg engineer and engineering manager for 4 years, so I got to know King Airs pretty well. I also got some stick time in them, and the 350 was hands down my favorite. The Chevy Suburban of the air.

Posted: 8/5/2005 9:31:46 PM EDT

[#40]

I'm having trouble with this whole "checking your fuel" and what your not allowed to put in your tank. WTF?

Its my car, I'll put whatever I want in it. If your not letting us on the road because we didn't pay a tax (on fuel) then kick the damn bikers and hitchikers because they arnt paying either.

I can understand fuel BOUGHT with subsidized GOVERNMENT money, but say I find oil on my land build a refinery and fill up at home everyday. How can this be illegal?

Someone explain this all in one post, its all scattered in this thread.

Posted: 8/5/2005 9:45:11 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
how is color coding supposed to help you avoid putting the wrong fuel in?

it's not like you see it as it rushes out of the hose (At least not on a car).

Because the PILOT is SUPPOSED to drain a small quantity of fuel from the sampling port after receiving fuel. This is to check for water and proper color. If the fueler pumped the wrong juice, you can then chew his ass instead of becoming a lawn dart.

But not all pilots do it. An air ambulance at SAT didn't check and the idiot fueler gave him Jet A in his recip powered plane. Crash on TO from loss of power.

Posted: 8/5/2005 9:47:40 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Quoted:
As I always say:
Republicans/Democrats = Same Shit/Different Stink
Higher taxes, less freedom, politics as usual....

And as a Citation Driver, humm... The Citation X is THE fastest civilian jet, in production, in the world.

myitinaw

I'd rather have one of these:
www.raytheonaircraft.com/images/beechcraft/king_air_350/kingair350_wallpaper800_01.jpg
www.raytheonaircraft.com/images/beechcraft/king_air_350/kingair350_wallpaper800_02.jpg
I worked on that line as a mfg engineer and engineering manager for 4 years, so I got to know King Airs pretty well. I also got some stick time in them, and the 350 was hands down my favorite. The Chevy Suburban of the air.

King Air's are sweet! The FBO I worked for on the side was also a Beechcraft dealer,the KingAir was also responsible for the Starship's failing.

Posted: 8/5/2005 9:53:49 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
the KingAir was also responsible for the Starship's failing.

I disagree. Mismanagement and the FAA's stupidity when confronted with something new (carbon fiber airframe and wings) is what resulted in the aircraft becoming gorsly overweight, which killed the performance, which killed the sales.

Starship would have flopped even if the KA did not exist. No amount of EFIS cockpit or Rutan design would have saved it. It's a pity because I flew in some of them and they were awesome in the air.

Posted: 8/5/2005 9:55:35 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Quoted:
how is color coding supposed to help you avoid putting the wrong fuel in?

it's not like you see it as it rushes out of the hose (At least not on a car).

Because the PILOT is SUPPOSED to drain a small quantity of fuel from the sampling port after receiving fuel. This is to check for water and proper color. If the fueler pumped the wrong juice, you can then chew his ass instead of becoming a lawn dart.

But not all pilots do it. An air ambulance at SAT didn't check and the idiot fueler gave him Jet A in his recip powered plane. Crash on TO from loss of power.

Trying to think what type of A/C that was,the Commander? Both it and the Piper's were both recip and turboprops,I never got confused,I loved the smell of 100 Avgas,sort of a sweet smell. Don't dump your sample on the asphalt,it tears up the ramp and the FBO will not like you! Next time you'll be forced to go to Millionaire where your plane will get beat up!

Posted: 8/5/2005 10:00:16 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
the KingAir was also responsible for the Starship's failing.

I disagree. Mismanagement and the FAA's stupidity when confronted with something new (carbon fiber airframe and wings) is what resulted in the aircraft becoming gorsly overweight, which killed the performance, which killed the sales.

Starship would have flopped even if the KA did not exist. No amount of EFIS cockpit or Rutan design would have saved it. It's a pity because I flew in some of them and they were awesome in the air.

Somewhat true,but when Beech brought it in for a sales demo,it was dirty and unfinished,and expensive compared to a King Air or a used Citation.There was some kookey Texan who had one,he loved it,always got out wearing his cowboy hat.

Posted: 8/6/2005 1:18:52 AM EDT

[#46]

Poeple complain about high gas and oil prices. Why should anyone be shocked, When you look at the 3 top people running the country they all made millions of dollars from the oil industry. High gas and oil prices are great for all thier friends too.

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:41:10 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Poeple complain about high gas and oil prices. Why should anyone be shocked, When you look at the 3 top people running the country they all made millions of dollars from the oil industry. High gas and oil prices are great for all thier friends too.

I guess you don't understand supply and demand and India and China

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:47:21 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Poeple complain about high gas and oil prices. Why should anyone be shocked, When you look at the 3 top people running the country they all made millions of dollars from the oil industry. High gas and oil prices are great for all thier friends too.

I guess you don't understand supply and demand and India and China

Most people don't. It is amazing how many people think the President controls the economy, or has the power to "do something!" about a recession.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:41:48 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:
how is color coding supposed to help you avoid putting the wrong fuel in?

it's not like you see it as it rushes out of the hose (At least not on a car).

Because the PILOT is SUPPOSED to drain a small quantity of fuel from the sampling port after receiving fuel. This is to check for water and proper color. If the fueler pumped the wrong juice, you can then chew his ass instead of becoming a lawn dart.

But not all pilots do it. An air ambulance at SAT didn't check and the idiot fueler gave him Jet A in his recip powered plane. Crash on TO from loss of power.

Bob Hoover crashed his Shrike here in San Diego because of the same thing.

www.cameron-brooks.com/Roger's%20Tips/April%202003%20Lessons%20in%20Leadership.htm

Several years ago, Bob finished an air show at Brown Field in Southern California. Because of his celebrity status and busy schedule, the air show was moving fast to get Bob back to his plane so he and a couple of passengers could fly back to San Diego. Unknown to Bob, a young boy who was running the flight line fuel operation mistakenly put jet fuel in Bob’s Shrike Commander which required aviation gas. Bob took off over rough terrain when both engines on the Shrike froze. For a normal pilot, crash landing in ravine-laden terrain would mean certain death. Bob used every ounce of his 50 years of flying experience to crash land the aircraft on the side of a ravine without killing anyone on board. One check of the wreckage confirmed that the plane had been improperly serviced with jet fuel.

Once the rescue helicopters transported him back to Brown Field, Bob asked where the line boy was who serviced the plane. Everyone seemed reluctant to tell him, afraid of what Bob would say or do to the boy for such a potentially fatal mistake. Finally, Bob found the boy outside. A California newspaper quoted Bob on what he did next:

“When I got back to the field, I saw the boy standing by the fence with tears in his eyes. I went over to him and put my arm around him and said, ‘There isn’t a man alive who hasn’t made a mistake. But I am positive that you’ll never make this mistake again. That’s why I want to make sure that you are the only one to refuel my plane tomorrow. I won’t let anyone else on the field touch it but you.’”

Posted: 8/6/2005 9:12:12 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
I'm having trouble with this whole "checking your fuel" and what your not allowed to put in your tank. WTF?

Its my car, I'll put whatever I want in it. If your not letting us on the road because we didn't pay a tax (on fuel) then kick the damn bikers and hitchikers because they arnt paying either.

I can understand fuel BOUGHT with subsidized GOVERNMENT money, but say I find oil on my land build a refinery and fill up at home everyday. How can this be illegal?

Someone explain this all in one post, its all scattered in this thread.

Taxes on fuel are what help pay for repair and construction of state and national roads. same idea as paying sales tax on a shirt or a video game, but the percentage of tax on fuel is close to 80%.

Every gallon of non taxed "dyed" fuel used to power a vehicle on the road is lost money to the govt.

As far as generating your own fuel, some people already do it with cars thta run on veggie oil, or bio diesel. I beleive that if this method of fuel production gets more common, the government will try and tax it too.

I guess fuel tax is just like a toll road, you pay the toll when you fill up your tank, instead of giving your change to the guy in a little hut.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Congress increases jet fuel prices because truckers have been using it instead of diesel (Page 2 of 2)

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