US trying to strip citizenship from 86 year old alleged Nazi guard - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - US trying to strip citizenship from 86 year old alleged Nazi guard (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:40:41 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:

1. Our internment of Americans was legal .

You have lost your mind.

He's got you there, Korematsu v united States, US S Ct, held that it was NOT legal, of course, that was later.

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:42:34 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It seems to me that NOBODY read anything but the title.

He wasn't a fucking guard.
He was a policeman.

Yeah, we read it.
But the ~~Demanjuk~~, ~~Dameniuk~~, (awww fuck it.) case brought up the issue of Nazi guards.

There were plenty of civilian collaborators in The Holocaust.
Mayors, police, businessmen.
String them all up.

Uhh, yeah, it was my pontificating that derailed the thread.

Sorry, but at least I didn't kill the thread, which is my MO.

I didn't mean to imply that you did.
Only that John whats-his-face brings up the guard issue.
Just as valid, though. Policeman or guard, both would be war criminals.

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:43:14 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Don't we have more important enemies to root out of our country than an 86 year old man?

No, we don't. And your attitude is what will lose the "war on terror" for us. We will continue to put the terrible 9/11 acts of the muslim terrorists in the backs of our minds and forget as time goes on.

Just like the bumper stickers say, "Never forget. Never forgive."

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:43:20 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Quoted:

1. Our internment of Americans was legal .

You have lost your mind.

Executive order by Roosevelt.
I may or may not agree, but it was legal.

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:44:52 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

1. Our internment of Americans was legal .

You have lost your mind.

He's got you there, Korematsu v united States, US S Ct, held that it was NOT legal, of course, that was later.

Korematsu was decided in December of 1944, two years after Roosevelt's decision.

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:46:42 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

1. Our internment of Americans was legal .

You have lost your mind.

Executive order by Roosevelt.
I may or may not agree, but it was legal.

Lots of orders are not legal.

If you believe for one minute that the .gov has the right to intern lawabiding citizens for NO reason other than ethnicity.....I am through discussing this with you.

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:48:08 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So by the reckoning of some here if they happened across an 86 year old Japanese who was involved in the Baatan Death March, or an 86 year old German who was involved in the Malmedy Massacre, he should be left alone because he is old and got away with it for 60 years

Curious logic…

ANdy

To some, that appears to be the sentiment.

To ME, however, the key question is, how do we know he was?

Put him on trial before a US court so he will get a fair trial… if the case against his is sound he will be found guilty, then he can be deported to the Ukraine.

ANdy

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:49:30 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

1. Our internment of Americans was legal .

You have lost your mind.

Executive order by Roosevelt.
I may or may not agree, but it was legal.

Lots of orders are not legal.

If you believe for one minute that the .gov has the right to intern lawabiding citizens for NO reason other than ethnicity.....I am through discussing this with you.

I didn't say that it was right.
But, at the time, it was considered legal and was considered legal orders for the Army troops.
If you want to go back and try them, or try to associate them with death camp supervisors and administrators, then, indeed, "I am through discussing this with you."

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:52:47 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
not all of the camp guards committed atrocities.

SO I guess they where not aware of what was going on?

Dude STFU, he is no longer a threat to anything except our fucking tax dollars.

Yeah, the holocaust was bad...

...but most people would have done the same thing.

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:53:13 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So by the reckoning of some here if they happened across an 86 year old Japanese who was involved in the Baatan Death March, or an 86 year old German who was involved in the Malmedy Massacre, he should be left alone because he is old and got away with it for 60 years

Curious logic…

ANdy

To some, that appears to be the sentiment.

To ME, however, the key question is, how do we know he was?

Put him on trial before a US court so he will get a fair trial… if the case against his is sound he will be found guilty, then he can be deported to the Ukraine.

ANdy

figure 3-5 years for evidence collection and they case to actually come to trial. he is now 89+ or dead. the trail would probable last 6 months so we are looking at a 90+ year old man if/when he is convicted. we have spent tens of thousands and assuming he is still alive the US taxpayer will now be responsible for 100% of his care in prison. could be talking over a million dollars if he lives another few years. He will never spend a day in a jail cell as his health will be to frail.

I will ask this again..... What have we gotten for the expense of the trial and care of this man if he is a war criminal? the purpose of prison is punishment. how do you punish a 90+ year old man without killing him?

mike

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:54:33 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1. Our internment of Americans was legal .
You have lost your mind.
Executive order by Roosevelt.
I may or may not agree, but it was legal.
Lots of orders are not legal.

If you believe for one minute that the .gov has the right to intern lawabiding citizens for NO reason other than ethnicity.....I am through discussing this with you.
I didn't say that it was right.
But, at the time, it was considered legal and was considered legal orders for the Army troops.
If you want to go back and try them, or try to associate them with death camp supervisors and administrators, then, indeed, "I am through discussing this with you."

Rounding up Jews in internmant camps was "legal" in Germany.
Rounding up Japs in internmant camps was "legal" in America.

That's the association.

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:54:58 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

I didn't say that it was right.
But, at the time, it was considered legal and was considered legal orders for the Army troops.
If you want to go back and try them, or try to associate them with death camp supervisors and administrators, then, indeed, "I am through discussing this with you."

If the SCOTUS found it not to be legal.....it was never legal.

I do not equate the guards at American camps to the Nazi camps.

I also don't have the first damned clue as to whether this 86 y/o man was an evil nazi.
From what is written, it doesn't seem that ANYONE does.

It also seems like it is a case of "he might be, so it's better that one innocent man be hanged than one guilty collaborator go free."

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:57:40 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
]Rounding up Jews in internmant camps was "legal" in Germany.
Rounding up Japs in internmant camps was "legal" in America.

That's the association.

Great point.

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:58:17 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:

I didn't say that it was right.
But, at the time, it was considered legal and was considered legal orders for the Army troops.
If you want to go back and try them, or try to associate them with death camp supervisors and administrators, then, indeed, "I am through discussing this with you."

If the SCOTUS found it not to be legal.....it was never legal.

I do not equate the guards at American camps to the Nazi camps.

I also don't have the first damned clue as to whether this 86 y/o man was an evil nazi.
From what is written, it doesn't seem that ANYONE does.

It also seems like it is a case of "he might be, so it's better that one innocent man be hanged than one guilty collaborator go free."

He still gets a trial.
It's up to Americans to make sure that he gets a fair trial.
Guilty or innocent wasn't the question I was addressing, wether we should "let sleeping dogs lie" and "forgive and forget" was.

Posted: 8/3/2005 1:59:41 PM EDT

[#15]

The US and our allies have let so many war criminals go its just a joke to try to punish this man 60 years later. Basically it's being done for the PC crowd.

We let MANY Japanese war criminals go at the end of world war two in exchance for information they accumulated (via human testing of bio/chem weapons). Also, allies like the French for example allowed many hardcore nazi war criminals to join their foreign legion to escape prosecution.

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:01:16 PM EDT

[#16]

Even if they decide to deport him it could take years, he probably die before being deported, seems like a waste of taxpayers dollars, what happen to that old christian forgivness?

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:01:42 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So by the reckoning of some here if they happened across an 86 year old Japanese who was involved in the Baatan Death March, or an 86 year old German who was involved in the Malmedy Massacre, he should be left alone because he is old and got away with it for 60 years

Curious logic…

ANdy

To some, that appears to be the sentiment.

To ME, however, the key question is, how do we know he was?

Put him on trial before a US court so he will get a fair trial… if the case against his is sound he will be found guilty, then he can be deported to the Ukraine.

ANdy

figure 3-5 years for evidence collection and they case to actually come to trial. he is now 89+ or dead. the trail would probable last 6 months so we are looking at a 90+ year old man if/when he is convicted. we have spent tens of thousands and assuming he is still alive the US taxpayer will now be responsible for 100% of his care in prison. could be talking over a million dollars if he lives another few years. He will never spend a day in a jail cell as his health will be to frail.

I will ask this again..... What have we gotten for the expense of the trial and care of this man if he is a war criminal? the purpose of prison is punishment. how do you punish a 90+ year old man without killing him?

mike

It's the principle Mike,

The principle that if you are an evil bastard no matter how long you hide or evade, if you are found out you will be brought to justice…the principle that justice for war crimes should have no time limitations.

As I said, if say a Japanese who was involved in the Baatan Death march was uncovered tomorrow living in the US, would you grant him a 'pass' because he was old and got away with it for 60 years?

Andy

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:03:48 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
The US and our allies have let so many war criminals go its just a joke to try to punish this man 60 years later. Basically it's being done for the PC crowd.

We let ~~MANY~~all Japanese war criminals go at the end of world war two in exchance for information they accumulated (via human testing of bio/chem weapons). Also, allies like the French for example allowed many hardcore nazi war criminals to join their foreign legion to escape prosecution.

Not a single trial, IIRC.

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:04:29 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

1. Our internment of Americans was legal .

You have lost your mind.

He's got you there, Korematsu v united States, US S Ct, held that it was NOT legal, of course, that was later.

Korematsu was decided in December of 1944, two years after Roosevelt's decision.

Hence the "that was later bit.

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:07:37 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So by the reckoning of some here if they happened across an 86 year old Japanese who was involved in the Baatan Death March, or an 86 year old German who was involved in the Malmedy Massacre, he should be left alone because he is old and got away with it for 60 years

Curious logic…

ANdy

To some, that appears to be the sentiment.

To ME, however, the key question is, how do we know he was?

Put him on trial before a US court so he will get a fair trial… if the case against his is sound he will be found guilty, then he can be deported to the Ukraine.

ANdy

figure 3-5 years for evidence collection and they case to actually come to trial. he is now 89+ or dead. the trail would probable last 6 months so we are looking at a 90+ year old man if/when he is convicted. we have spent tens of thousands and assuming he is still alive the US taxpayer will now be responsible for 100% of his care in prison. could be talking over a million dollars if he lives another few years. He will never spend a day in a jail cell as his health will be to frail.

I will ask this again..... What have we gotten for the expense of the trial and care of this man if he is a war criminal? the purpose of prison is punishment. how do you punish a 90+ year old man without killing him?

mike

It's the principle Mike,

The principle that if you are an evil bastard no matter how long you hide or evade, if you are found out you will be brought to justice…the principle that justice for war crimes should have no time limitations.

As I said, if say a Japanese who was involved in the Baatan Death march was uncovered tomorrow living in the US, would you grant him a 'pass' because he was old and got away with it for 60 years?

Andy

and principles are a noble thing.

Fact the US court system is overloaded. Many courts are strapped for funds. The fed will have to pay for his defense as he has no income. The cost of the trial will be FAR greater than any possible punishment or gains from it.

the reality is that prosecution at this point is a total waste of funds and resourses. Will his prosectution and conviction stop future war criminals? NO at best he would get little or no publicity on the world news scene. Will punishement at this point reform him or aid his victims? NO they are long dead and he will NEVER see the inside of a prison. Hanging him should he survive the trial would be the only punishment that would affect him.

want to try him..... you pay for it.

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:09:43 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Makes Me think of "Marathon Man".

The Only Good Nazi, Is a DEAD Nazi.

I could care less if He sport's Depends, or is a young Neo-knuckle head
with a Mean Goose-Step.

+1 feed him feet first into a woodchipper

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:11:18 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
If he played a hand in the deaths of 1,000,000's I couldn't give a shit less about him.

Fixed it for you....

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:16:40 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
not all of the camp guards committed atrocities.

SO I guess they where not aware of what was going on?

Dude STFU, he is no longer a threat to anything except our fucking tax dollars.

Yeah, the holocaust was bad...

...but most people would have done the same thing.[0j]

Fucking

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:21:01 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So by the reckoning of some here if they happened across an 86 year old Japanese who was involved in the Baatan Death March, or an 86 year old German who was involved in the Malmedy Massacre, he should be left alone because he is old and got away with it for 60 years

Curious logic…

ANdy

To some, that appears to be the sentiment.

To ME, however, the key question is, how do we know he was?

Put him on trial before a US court so he will get a fair trial… if the case against his is sound he will be found guilty, then he can be deported to the Ukraine.

ANdy

figure 3-5 years for evidence collection and they case to actually come to trial. he is now 89+ or dead. the trail would probable last 6 months so we are looking at a 90+ year old man if/when he is convicted. we have spent tens of thousands and assuming he is still alive the US taxpayer will now be responsible for 100% of his care in prison. could be talking over a million dollars if he lives another few years. He will never spend a day in a jail cell as his health will be to frail.

I will ask this again..... What have we gotten for the expense of the trial and care of this man if he is a war criminal? the purpose of prison is punishment. how do you punish a 90+ year old man without killing him?

mike

It's the principle Mike,

The principle that if you are an evil bastard no matter how long you hide or evade, if you are found out you will be brought to justice…the principle that justice for war crimes should have no time limitations.

As I said, if say a Japanese who was involved in the Baatan Death march was uncovered tomorrow living in the US, would you grant him a 'pass' because he was old and got away with it for 60 years?

Andy

and principles are a noble thing.

Fact the US court system is overloaded. Many courts are strapped for funds. The fed will have to pay for his defense as he has no income. The cost of the trial will be FAR greater than any possible punishment or gains from it.

the reality is that prosecution at this point is a total waste of funds and resourses. Will his prosectution and conviction stop future war criminals? NO at best he would get little or no publicity on the world news scene. Will punishement at this point reform him or aid his victims? NO they are long dead and he will NEVER see the inside of a prison. Hanging him should he survive the trial would be the only punishment that would affect him.

want to try him..... you pay for it.

Well if money is the prime consideration put his ass on the next plane to the Ukraine and let them try him, problem solved…

ANdy

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:25:21 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Will they then start prosecuting all those in the US involved with rounding up and putting japanese-americans in concentration camps? I'm willing to bet some members here have parents and grandparents involved in this.

That was wrong, I grant you that, but that is a completely moronic statement to compare that to the Nazi camps.

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:26:20 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Well if money is the prime consideration put his ass on the next plane to the Ukraine and let them try him, problem solved…

ANdy

the purpose of a trial and punishment is to remove the criminal from society in order make society as a whole safer. would be be better off? would the world community be better off? will his trial disuade future war criminals?

If i thought for a minute there would be ANY social benifit to it i'd be all for it. At best this man was a minor player in the grand scheme of things. other than a back page news entry no one will even know he is on trial. if he dies during the trial what have we gained?

If the ukrain has enough evidence then they can present it to the US for the courts to decide to extardite him. hell he'll rpobably be dead by the time that takes place.

he lived here for 60 years. the good times of his life are done and over. how is justice served?

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:28:34 PM EDT

[#27]

Give the Mossad his name and address.

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:29:34 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Give the Mossad his name and address.

if he's guilty i vote for this option.

much cheaper

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:31:59 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The US and our allies have let so many war criminals go its just a joke to try to punish this man 60 years later. Basically it's being done for the PC crowd.

We let ~~MANY~~all Japanese war criminals go at the end of world war two in exchance for information they accumulated (via human testing of bio/chem weapons). Also, allies like the French for example allowed many hardcore nazi war criminals to join their foreign legion to escape prosecution.

Not a single trial, IIRC.

I don't remember the details, but yes there were several that culminated in hanging.

Before you "correct" someone else's post, check things first.

Edit to correct for spelling. See, I am a spelling nazi even to myself.

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:36:25 PM EDT

[#30]

This old geezer was a REAL JBT and some here would defend him yet find Joe Cop out busting DUIs and call HIM a freaking JBT...

Posted: 8/3/2005 2:38:21 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
not all of the camp guards committed atrocities.

SO I guess they where not aware of what was going on?

Dude STFU, he is no longer a threat to anything except our fucking tax dollars.

Yeah, the holocaust was bad...

...but most people would have done the same thing.[0j]

Fucking

I waiting so long for someone to respond to that...
I wrote a huge response but deleted it ... basically this sentence sums it up.

A lot of gas chambers were actually run by Jews. Should we prosecute/execute them?

WTF is he supposed to do? Help the Germans to avoid being executed or fight ther Germans so he can be executed by the Russians?

Also, are we hunting 80 year old RUSSIANS that did equally as bad things to German POWs???

ETA: German POWs were regularly kept in Russian custody until 1955 and when 90,000 German prisoners were taken at Stalingrad, 5,000 made it back to Germany alive.

That's .055 percent....but do we hunt former Communists aswell?

Posted: 8/3/2005 3:11:41 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Give the Mossad his name and address.

Now THAT My friend, makes me all excited and giggly inside, like a
todler with a New Sponge Bob Toy!

Posted: 8/3/2005 3:13:55 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The US and our allies have let so many war criminals go its just a joke to try to punish this man 60 years later. Basically it's being done for the PC crowd.

We let ~~MANY~~all Japanese war criminals go at the end of world war two in exchance for information they accumulated (via human testing of bio/chem weapons). Also, allies like the French for example allowed many hardcore nazi war criminals to join their foreign legion to escape prosecution.

Not a single trial, IIRC.

I don't remember the details, but yes there were several that culimated in hanging.

Before you "correct" someone else's post, check things first.

The Tokyo War Crimes Trials hanged 7 of the Japanese leaders.

All the combatants in the Far East also held their own trials. In the Australian held trials alone, 922 men were tried and 641 were found guilty. Of 148 sentenced to death, 137 were actually executed.

ANdy

Posted: 8/3/2005 3:15:58 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
There's never a statute of limitations on justice for Nazi murderers.
We need to hound these murders to their graves.

Agree 100%!

Posted: 8/3/2005 3:17:55 PM EDT

[#35]

I say this is a waste of time and taxpayers money. After all, if the Justice Department cannot use the old recollections of the US Embassy hostages in Iran and their recognition of the new Iranian president as being one of the ring leaders, what in the fuck do they think of memory recollections of what someone looked like back in the 1940's?

Posted: 8/3/2005 3:23:39 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The US and our allies have let so many war criminals go its just a joke to try to punish this man 60 years later. Basically it's being done for the PC crowd.

We let ~~MANY~~all Japanese war criminals go at the end of world war two in exchance for information they accumulated (via human testing of bio/chem weapons). Also, allies like the French for example allowed many hardcore nazi war criminals to join their foreign legion to escape prosecution.

Not a single trial, IIRC.

I don't remember the details, but yes there were several that culimated in hanging.

Before you "correct" someone else's post, check things first.

Agreed.

I was going off Ghost Soldiers, my memory may be fading, but my manners are not.

Apologies to all.

Posted: 8/3/2005 3:37:59 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Don't we have more important enemies to root out of our country than an 86 year old man?

Chicago man accused of helping Nazis

CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- An aging Chicago carpenter should be stripped of his U.S. citizenship because he was a member of a police unit that helped the Nazis round up Ukrainian Jews for forced labor and death camps during World War II, federal attorneys argue.

"He acquiesced in conduct contrary to civilization and decency," government attorney Gregory Gordon told U.S. District Judge Samuel Der-Yeghiayan as a civil trial against Osyp Firishchak began Monday.

Firishchak, 86, came to the United States after World War II, settled in Chicago and obtained American citizenship. But the Justice Department's Nazi-hunting Office of Special Investigations says he lied on his visa application and broke other rules.

The government says he joined the Ukrainian Auxiliary Police and helped in widespread roundups of Jews who were sent to forced labor camps and death camps after the Germans occupied Ukraine in 1941.

If Der-Yeghiayan rules against him, Firishchak would be stripped of his citizenship. The government then likely would seek to deport him.

Defense attorney James Maher III told the judge that Firishchak was never a member of the Ukrainian Auxiliary Police and that there is no proof he did any of the things the government claims. Maher also said there is nothing to suggest Firishchak was dishonest on his visa application.

The government's first witness, Holocaust researcher Dieter Pohl, described what happened to the Jewish population in the city of Lviv at the hands of the Ukrainian Auxiliary Police.

"There was constant violence against the Jews," Pohl said.

Firishchak's name of surfaced after the fall of the Soviet Union when the newly independent Ukraine opened its archives to Holocaust researchers.

Government attorneys acknowledged they have only a smattering of direct evidence that specific acts allegedly were committed by Firishchak. But they say they can prove he was part of the auxiliary police throughout the war and that the unit was instrumental in carrying out the Holocaust in Ukraine.

And how is "Nazi-hunting" by our Gov't permitted but "Illegal Mexican-hunting" by our Gov't is horrifically racist??

Because it's okay to hate Nazi's.

My opinion? Dig into this and if found true strip him of his citizenship and send him to Germany or Isreal. If he's not guilty, make it up to him with a pension.

And LOCK THE DAMNED BORDERS!!!!!

Posted: 8/3/2005 3:39:54 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Will they then start prosecuting all those in the US involved with rounding up and putting japanese-americans in concentration camps? I'm willing to bet some members here have parents and grandparents involved in this.

What concentration camps?

Posted: 8/3/2005 3:44:01 PM EDT

[#39]

Hypothetically... if some former Al Qeida thug is discovered by some government 60 years from now, and is suspected of being involved in terrorist activity that lead to the death of American citizens, should they let him off the hook because he's old? Would it be a waste of taxpayer's money to prosecute our current generation of criminals in the future? I hope our descendents have better memories and more respect for us than that.

Posted: 8/3/2005 4:16:20 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Hypothetically... if some former Al Qeida thug is discovered by some government 60 years from now, and is suspected of being involved in terrorist activity that lead to the death of American citizens, should they let him off the hook because he's old? Would it be a waste of taxpayer's money to prosecute our current generation of criminals in the future? I hope our descendents have better memories and more respect for us than that.

DoucheMaster, this guy didn't kill Americans, all they SAY they can prove is that he was in a Uktranian Auxiliary Police unit. BIG FUCKING DEAL! He helped kill UKRANIANS if this is true why would we send him to GERMANY?! (to previous poster)

Also, Stalin had 5 million Ukranians killed before WW2. Anyone care for them? Nope. *crickets*

There is a college professor I know of (at my school) that was German SS (Waffen) during WW2, he joined the French Foreign Legion to avoid war crimes trials (I don't think he did any warcrimes he said that most people he knew from the SS joined because they THOUGHT that the US was going to put EVERY SS soldier on trial). He is a US citizen now. When asked if he had ever shot an American, he answered with something like "war is hell." He did his fighting on the WESTERN FRONT.

Execute him too? He's probably about 80.

Posted: 8/3/2005 4:20:40 PM EDT

[#41]

Not talking about executing this guy... if during the trial it is discovered that he lied to get into the country because he had someting serious to cover up, what is the big deal with kicking him out?

Posted: 8/3/2005 4:28:36 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Not talking about executing this guy... if during the trial it is discovered that he lied to get into the country because he had someting serious to cover up, what is the big deal with kicking him out?

Regardless of what he MIGHT have done, I haven't seen evidence to show that he isn't a productive member of society. The article said he was a carpenter. Deport him if we must but there needs to be about 10,000,000 more AMERICANS that get stripped of their citizenship and thrown the fuck out before him.

If I had to choose between rounding up people to die, or being killed myself I don't know what I would choose. And neither do the Keyboard Commandos

Posted: 8/3/2005 4:33:09 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Not talking about executing this guy... if during the trial it is discovered that he lied to get into the country because he had someting serious to cover up, what is the big deal with kicking him out?

Regardless of what he MIGHT have done, I haven't seen evidence to show that he isn't a productive member of society. The article said he was a carpenter. Deport him if we must but there needs to be about 10,000,000 more AMERICANS that get stripped of their citizenship and thrown the fuck out before him.

If I had to choose between rounding up people to die, or being killed myself I don't know what I would choose. And neither do the Keyboard Commandos

10,000,000 American citizens lied about their backgrounds to cover up possible war crimes?
FWIW, I don't know which choice I would have made either... doesn't mean that either of us wouldn't deserve what was coming to us.

Posted: 8/3/2005 4:34:15 PM EDT

[#44]

Being a concentration camp guard does not necessarily = atrocities committed.

Many did. Others did not.

To come back 60 years later and try to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this man committed atrocities is nigh unto impossible. However, when the jury listens to the prosecution, in their minds all they'll see is a Nazi. and to them, he will automatically be guilty. The man will almost certainly be convicted whether he is guilty or not.

Posted: 8/3/2005 4:45:15 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Being a concentration camp guard does not necessarily = atrocities committed.

Many did. Others did not.

To come back 60 years later and try to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this man committed atrocities is nigh unto impossible. However, when the jury listens to the prosecution, in their minds all they'll see is a Nazi. and to them, he will automatically be guilty. The man will almost certainly be convicted whether he is guilty or not.

Very possible that he did not commit any atrocities, but that is not the issue. The case states that he "acquiesed in conduct contrary to civilization and decency", not that he committed atrocities. If he really was a member of the Ukrainian Auxilliary Police and lied on his Visa app. about it, that is enough to warrant deporting him. If he were suspected of particular acts considered to be war crimes, it would be lot more than deportation being considered.

Posted: 8/3/2005 4:49:53 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
There's never a statute of limitations on justice for Nazi murderers.
We need to hound these murders to their graves.

+1

Posted: 8/3/2005 6:32:11 PM EDT

[#47]

The basis of stripping his citzenship is that HE LIED when he apllied for it. If he would have checked that box "yes", and his cit. was granted, teh gov. wouldn't have much of a case. The feds should prosecute if they have evidnece, if for no other reason to make sure people apllying for cit. tell the truth on their apllications. If you don't prosecutehim off after he aleegedly lied, then what's to keep others from lying on their applications?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - US trying to strip citizenship from 86 year old alleged Nazi guard (Page 2 of 2)

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