Quoted:


What?  Impartial statistics in an argument over man's best friend?    No fair!

I'm saving that information, btw...

Quoted: Quoted: img43.imageshack.us/img43/695/dogbites6kx.jpg What?  Impartial statistics in an argument over man's best friend?    No fair! I'm saving that information, btw...

Except notice how "Husky" and "Pit Bull" are quoted and they are the only ones quoted.  So what is a "Husky" and what is a "Pit Bull".  Statistics are only as good as the data used to generate them.  

Anyway It gets weary, just like all the other holy wars here.  Go ban that other guys property if it makes you feel better.


ETA:  What I find interesting is that Husky is #4 on that list, yet by every standard I know of they are considered a normally gentle and non aggressive breed.  Hmmm, maybe position on this list is not indicative of temperment.

Quoted: Quoted: img43.imageshack.us/img43/695/dogbites6kx.jpg What?  Impartial statistics in an argument over man's best friend?    No fair! I'm saving that information, btw...

From where they originated. CDC Report Abbreivated, but with notations on breed determination

Make sure to save the .pdf too so you can read it later.  When you read it, let us know about how impartial their methodology was.  Also be sure to comment specifically on their "overwhelming" evidence of how they determine breeds and their notation on that matter.

You might reconsider your statement.

Hmph...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whoa!!!  Wait a minute...those are the Puppies of Peace!  It's the owners, not the dogs!  They make great pets...just ask an owner.  They aren't instinctively aggressive or violent...that's all a lot of hooey! Yea...right... I pray for the little girl.  I hope all of you pit bull apologists wake up one day to the evil you are helping to perpetuate. So a breed is "evil".  Interesting. You know exactly what I mean and it is not the "breed".  The dogs are dumb animals that operate purely on instinct and in reaction their environment. The EVIL of which I speak are the continuing deaths of the innocents by these dogs; coupled with the gross negligence on the part of our neighbors and community leaders to help minimize the numbers of these attacks. But the deaths of innocents 30 in 30+ years by Rotties are less evil?  20 by Shepherds are OK?  Perhaps the dog does have a tendancy to be more fatal when it attacks, more difficult to shake loose.  But who are these "appologists" you refer to?  I've seen nobody suggesting a single threatning animal not be dealt as such,  Really though, in the grand scheme of life and the number of things you can die from Dog attacks (all) are like being struck by lightning.  For gods sake isn't there other things to concern ourselves with. I consider the hype on this issue to be evil.  It's just like any other story they choose to turn into raving fear.  It's small kernel of basis in fact is blown out of all proportion, mixed with emotion and the earth is scoured to find every example of the supposed plauge to report.  As unpopular gun owners we should be well aware of the tactic.

Grunteled,

WADR, you just made my case.

Quoted: Grunteled, WADR, you just made my case.

WADR?

Pitbulls.......

The new

JAWS


just when you thought it was safe to go into the back yard.

Quoted: Seriously though.....  Who leaves the a toddler and a dog together and no direct supervision?   Who does that?

I can't disagree with that.

Quoted: Seriously though.....  Who leaves the a toddler and a dog together and no direct supervision?   Who does that?

Folks who own pits?

Just stop.  Never admit that they could be wrong.  If you’re screaming that the breed was designed to be violent by nature your wrong.  Sorry folks but nature is nature and all dogs are carnivores.  You don't breed it.  These dogs may have been breed as a bull baiting dog and more recently as a fighting dog in SOME bloodlines not all.  So get off it.  You no more can pass judgment on an animal on how much damage it will do than the man in the moon.  Just because it is a powerful breed makes it no more likely to bite than a fucking cocker.

Actually, they are much less likely to bite than a cocker so bring facts not opinions.  These animals were not breed to attack people or children.  Even though it is unfortunate that is happens that does not make this breed anymore likely to bite than most any other, it just does more damage.

First off, a child in a back yard with a large carnivore by themselves, are you fucking crazy.  I do not care that it was a pit, it could have been a lab or dane.  These animals are meat eaters so let’s not kid ourselves.  I have never nor will I ever leave my animals unattended around anyone nor will I leave my kids, especially ones to young to know better in a yard by themselves with an animal capable of killing them.  That is just stupid.   You pit haters need to stop blaming everything but the facts.  

Quoted: Quoted: Seriously though.....  Who leaves the a toddler and a dog together and no direct supervision?   Who does that? Folks who own pits?

Ha!  I guess I had that comming

Folks who own dogs.  I can't get people at work to agree usually.  They have the worlds most sweetest dog and they can "trust" it around the kiddo.  I think it's dumb beyond words but then I apparently own the fourth most deadly dog in the US (Husky) so what do i know?

Quoted:
Quoted:
Seriously though..... Who leaves the a toddler and a dog together and no direct supervision? Who does that?


Folks who own pits?

Or people that own little foo foo dogs like Pomeranians huh?

Quoted: Just stop.  Never admit that they could be wrong.  If you’re screaming that the breed was designed to be violent by nature your wrong.  Sorry folks but nature is nature and all dogs are carnivores.  You don't breed it.  These dogs may have been breed as a bull baiting dog and more recently as a fighting dog in SOME bloodlines not all.  So get off it.  You no more can pass judgment on an animal on how much damage it will do than the man in the moon.  Just because it is a powerful breed makes it no more likely to bite than a fucking cocker. Actually, they are much less likely to bite than a cocker so bring facts not opinions.  These animals were not breed to attack people or children.  Even though it is unfortunate that is happens that does not make this breed anymore likely to bite than most any other, it just does more damage. First off, a child in a back yard with a large carnivore by themselves, are you fucking crazy.  I do not care that it was a pit, it could have been a lab or dane.  These animals are meat eaters so let’s not kid ourselves.  I have never nor will I ever leave my animals unattended around anyone nor will I leave my kids, especially ones to young to know better in a yard by themselves with an animal capable of killing them.  That is just stupid.   You pit haters need to stop blaming everything but the facts.

Eta: I can't quit laughing.

Quoted: Quoted: Just stop.  Never admit that they could be wrong.  If you’re screaming that the breed was designed to be violent by nature your wrong.  Sorry folks but nature is nature and all dogs are carnivores.  You don't breed it.  These dogs may have been breed as a bull baiting dog and more recently as a fighting dog in SOME bloodlines not all.  So get off it.  You no more can pass judgment on an animal on how much damage it will do than the man in the moon.  Just because it is a powerful breed makes it no more likely to bite than a fucking cocker. Actually, they are much less likely to bite than a cocker so bring facts not opinions.  These animals were not breed to attack people or children.  Even though it is unfortunate that is happens that does not make this breed anymore likely to bite than most any other, it just does more damage. First off, a child in a back yard with a large carnivore by themselves, are you fucking crazy.  I do not care that it was a pit, it could have been a lab or dane.  These animals are meat eaters so let’s not kid ourselves.  I have never nor will I ever leave my animals unattended around anyone nor will I leave my kids, especially ones to young to know better in a yard by themselves with an animal capable of killing them.  That is just stupid.   You pit haters need to stop blaming everything but the facts.   Eta: I can't quit laughing.

+1.  What a douche!  

Quoted: Whoa!!!  Wait a minute...those are the Puppies of Peace!  It's the owners, not the dogs!  They make great pets...just ask an owner.  They aren't instinctively aggressive or violent...that's all a lot of hooey! Yea...right... I pray for the little girl.  I hope all of you pit bull apologists wake up one day to the evil you are helping to perpetuate.

Evil? Pitbulls are no more evil than any other breed of dog. It is all in how the dog was raised. If you beat a dog whle it is a puppy or neglect it then it has a much higher chance of becoming a dangerous dog. The same thing could be said for a human child growing up to be a threat to society. You are ignorant of what is actually going on. Have you ever been in contact with a pitbull? I doubt it, the media can twist the public's view of anything.  They are some of the sweetest dogs and are great with children. The miniture pitbull is actually nicknamed the "nanny dog" because it takes care of the children of the family and will not leave their side. I have a pitbull, it loves people and other dogs and I have changed many peoples opinions on the breed by just introducing them to my dog for a few minutes. If you met my dog you would change your tune, I'm sure of it.

The face of Evil!!

You Pittbull Haters are hypocrites. Ban those dogs but not my GUNS, ALCOHOL or FAST CARS. All of which kill more people than Pitbulls. So what if Pitbulls have attacked more people , there are more Pittbulls than the other dog breeds mentioned. Maybe all of you Pittbull haters should ask your selves why are you so scared of a DOG.

Quoted: You Pittbull Haters are hypocrites. Ban those dogs but not my GUNS, ALCOHOL or FAST CARS. All of which kill more people than Pitbulls. So what if Pitbulls have attacked more people , there are more Pittbulls than the other dog breeds mentioned. Maybe all of you Pittbull haters should ask your selves why are you so scared of a DOG.

I'm scared of them and I'm not for banning them. Just shoot them.

Applying "Good" and "Evil" to an animal is a fallacy.  Those are human traits.  That said,  ANY dog large enough to do more than "band-aid" damage is going to get shot.  

www.thedogplace.com/library/articles156.htm

The dog groomers I spoke to said most of the bites they see are from Schnauzers, Cocker Spaniels, Westies, Scotties, and Dachshunds. Next I polled a number of veterinarians. One veterinarian said to me, "Give me a so-called vicious Pit Bull over a Cocker Spaniel, Dachshund, or even a Lab any day!! These are the breeds I have the most problem with." Another vet concurred saying that in years of working at a veterinarian clinic she never once encountered a single vicious Pit bull yet had problems all the time with Cocker Spaniels and Yorkshire Terriers.

If your dog, regardless of breed, attacks anyone, IT IS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT!  

YOU failed to properly socialize the dog.  YOU failed to properly train the dog.  YOU failed to properly bond with the dog, and set its boundaries with you as the Alpha leader.  YOU failed to properly supervise the dog.  

A dog (and Pit Bulls) is not an unguided missle set for kill.  It is a fairly predictable, highly trainable, and very social animal that wants to please you.  But, those who are lazy, stupid, and/or ignorant need not apply.  It is a constant vigil to keep you dog in line, trained, and under control.  If you love it and being a dog owner, it won't be work.  

If you want Lassie, go buy a fucking fish instead.  

And statistics are CRAP!  

You see more attacks by Pits, because those inclined to have Pits make them violent.  

They want fighting dogs.  

They want watch/attack dogs.  

Why are we punishing the dog for being good at what its owner wants?  

Quoted: If you want Lassie, go buy a fucking fish instead.

So fish are safe, eh? Read "Death from Behind" and you might just change your tune...

Quoted: Quoted: Grunteled, WADR, you just made my case. WADR?

With All Due Respect.  No sarcasm intended.  I respect your position.  I happen to disagree.  My first concern is for the little ones who keep being killed or maimed by these dogs.

Quoted: Quoted: You Pittbull Haters are hypocrites. Ban those dogs but not my GUNS, ALCOHOL or FAST CARS. All of which kill more people than Pitbulls. So what if Pitbulls have attacked more people , there are more Pittbulls than the other dog breeds mentioned. Maybe all of you Pittbull haters should ask your selves why are you so scared of a DOG. I'm scared of them and I'm not for banning them. Just shoot them.

I would have thought for sure you were in favor of a ban, based on previous posts.

Hey guys, VOTE here if you haven't already!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You Pittbull Haters are hypocrites. Ban those dogs but not my GUNS, ALCOHOL or FAST CARS. All of which kill more people than Pitbulls. So what if Pitbulls have attacked more people , there are more Pittbulls than the other dog breeds mentioned. Maybe all of you Pittbull haters should ask your selves why are you so scared of a DOG. I'm scared of them and I'm not for banning them. Just shoot them. I would have thought for sure you were in favor of a ban, based on previous posts.

I've never been in favor of a ban. Just shoot them as you find them.

Here is my personal story of the very first time I met a pit bull.

In 1983, when we were living in Hawaii my kids were playing in the yard with our six month old golden retriever.  I was out there mowing the yard.  Like most goldens, he was a big dopey mutt who wouldn't hurt a flea.  A little neighbor girl happened by with a couple of other kids...and her six month old pit bull pup.  Good family, well treated and well loved pit bull.  No signs of abuse whatsoever.

Pretty soon we were all sitting there watching the pups have fun playing and nipping at each other.  Our golden was much bigger than the little pit bull but I noticed that the pit's mouth appeared to be much larger in relation to the overall size of the dog.  The dogs were both laying down, next to each other,  both on leashes held by the girls.   I was not concerned much...since I'd heard very little at that time about pit bulls.

VERY suddenly, and without a single bit of warning, the pit bull grabbed our golden by the throat...HARD!  In a flash the golden was totally helpless and trapped absolutely firmly in the frozen jaws of the pit bull pup.  Our dog almost went limp and just whined a bit.  I could see the terror on his mug.  Nothing like this had ever happend to him in his young life.  His litter mates and he had always played...and sometimes nipped a bit too hard but never had he been so OWNED as he was at that instant.

The young owner of the pit tried to get her pooch to let go without success.  I intervened and grabbed the pit's jaws and tried to pry it off of our dog as she was jerking on her leash vigorously.  In a matter of maybe 15 - 30 seconds we had the dogs apart and there was no damage.  The pit bull acted like there was absolutely nothing out of the ordinary...almost as if it had never happened.  Our golden decided it was the better part of valor to leave the smaller pooch alone and we took him in the house.

The neighbors left without further incident...basically, no harm...no foul.

That lesson was NOT lost on me however.  That pit bull pup had not been around long enough to be affected by its environment.  It was living in a good home as part of a military family.  In fact, at first glance it appeared to be a loving, friendly pup, much like our golden...THEN there was that instantaneous reaction to some stimuli that caused it to react.

I could not help but wonder...what if that had been an adult pit bull dog and it had reacted thus to a child...or another dog?

Sadly, in the last few years, even in our own community, we've seen far too many cases of pit bull dogs going off of their rockers...FOR WHATEVER REASON...and attacking and occasionally killing humans or another pet.  That is wrong and must be ended now.

Quoted: I have a pitbull, it loves people and other dogs and I have changed many peoples opinions on the breed by just introducing them to my dog for a few minutes. If you met my dog you would change your tune, I'm sure of it.

I have an Akita, and a little story to go with her.  My mother was attacked by her friend's Akita about eight years ago.  Her wrist was so badly mangled that she needed surgery in order to use her hand.

Fast forward a couple of years later, I saw a six week old Akita puppy at a pet store.  I was there only to buy dog treats for my neighbor's dog, but I saw her in the cage and decided to ask the store clerk if I could take her out of the cage, just for the hell of it.  She was the cutest little thing, weighing only six or seven pounds, and looked exactly like a little ewok.  Ten minutes later I walked out of the store with her.

I called my mom and told her about my new dog, completely forgetting that it was the same kind of dog that attacked her a couple of years prior.  She freaked out and told me never to bring the dog over to her house because Akitas are "evil".

Fast forward another year, I broke up with my girlfriend and needed to move in with my mom for a little while (with the dog).  After six months at mom's house, I got an apartment and was ready to move out.  A couple of days before moving out, my mom was CRYING, and told me that I can't take HER dog away from her.  She was ready to take me to court for custody, if necessary!

Anyway, now my dog lives with my mom, and I only get to see her when I visit my mom.  My mom won't even let me take her for a weekend because she's afraid I'll take her back!

Don't you guys go calling me a momma's boy or anything like that.  If you saw your mother cry like that you would probably do the same.

Here's a pic of my my mom's Akita at the park playing with her other dog.


ETA:  My mother and I frequently find abandoned pit bulls in that park.  At least four or five times a year.  In my experience, they have been extremely gentle and some of them are very timid.  This is more than likely the reason they have been abandoned, because they are not "mean" enough.  Some of them are used as training dummys for other pit bulls by people who use them for fighting, and then left loose with injuries.  Most of the ones I've come across have pieces of ears missing and/or their faces are lacerated.  Some of them shake nervously in the presence of people and take a while to warm up, some of them walk right up to you as friendly as can be.  In no instance has any loose pit bull attacked my dog or my mother's dog, and they have had many encounters over the years.

I personally know a few people who have adopted these abused pit bulls and they actually turned out to be great family pets.  Over time and with a good family they get less jumpy and learn to trust people.  They get socialized properly and run around the park with other dogs (about 15-20 dog owners meet there every morning) without incident.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You Pittbull Haters are hypocrites. Ban those dogs but not my GUNS, ALCOHOL or FAST CARS. All of which kill more people than Pitbulls. So what if Pitbulls have attacked more people , there are more Pittbulls than the other dog breeds mentioned. Maybe all of you Pittbull haters should ask your selves why are you so scared of a DOG. I'm scared of them and I'm not for banning them. Just shoot them. I would have thought for sure you were in favor of a ban, based on previous posts. I've never been in favor of a ban. Just shoot them as you find them.

+1 Rotties too. IMO that will keep the animals out of the hands of the irresponsible owners as the responsible one will have them fenced or restrained.

Quoted: I bet fluffy never ever bit or showed any signs before right?    I simpathize with pitbull owners becauze most have never had a problem and probly never will but I think maybe the dogs are just retarded.    I've never seen a chiwawa tear off a kids scalp and eat it. Those dogs are trouble. If that was my dog and kid I'd kill the dog tend to my child then have a little sit down with myself for exsposing my child to that possibliity then I'd gp out and kill every pitbull I saw.

Yeah, cause that's rational and sane and safe.


Anyone pops into my yard holding a gun, and the inbound 223 rounds would become a more pressing concern than the dogs.....

Yup, just waiting to attack. APBT's have to use the red dot optics, cause their fangs get in the way of a good cheek weld....

GT

I don't care what anyone says or thinks, look at the stats, pit bulls are more likely to attack a person than any other dogs.  The people who don't believe this are just in denial, "Oh, my dog was raised properly, he won't bite".  BULLSHIT, he/she has teeth don't they?

I am not an animal hater by any means, I currently do not own a dog since my last one died (cancer) but I will not hesitate to take a dog out if it even ACTS aggressive toward a family member, especially my daughter . . . .

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You Pittbull Haters are hypocrites. Ban those dogs but not my GUNS, ALCOHOL or FAST CARS. All of which kill more people than Pitbulls. So what if Pitbulls have attacked more people , there are more Pittbulls than the other dog breeds mentioned. Maybe all of you Pittbull haters should ask your selves why are you so scared of a DOG. I'm scared of them and I'm not for banning them. Just shoot them. I would have thought for sure you were in favor of a ban, based on previous posts. I've never been in favor of a ban. Just shoot them as you find them.

don't you think going around shooting dogs, especially off of your property, is a little more dangerous to bystander than a dog?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You Pittbull Haters are hypocrites. Ban those dogs but not my GUNS, ALCOHOL or FAST CARS. All of which kill more people than Pitbulls. So what if Pitbulls have attacked more people , there are more Pittbulls than the other dog breeds mentioned. Maybe all of you Pittbull haters should ask your selves why are you so scared of a DOG. I'm scared of them and I'm not for banning them. Just shoot them. I would have thought for sure you were in favor of a ban, based on previous posts. I've never been in favor of a ban. Just shoot them as you find them. don't you think going around shooting dogs, especially off of your property, is a little more dangerous to bystander than a dog?

Not in my expierence.

Quoted: Not in my expierence.

You must live out in the sticks then.  If I were to pull out my pistol and go around shooting dogs, the police would arrest me!

Quoted: Quoted: Not in my expierence. You must live out in the sticks then.  If I were to pull out my pistol and go around shooting dogs, the police would arrest me!

Too funny.

The pitbull has been degraded in the eyes of the public by misused statistics that are taken out of context, irresponsible owners, inaccurate eyewitness accounts, and a fear mongering media. The dogs that are most reported to have killed people at any given time in history reflect the breed's popularity and consequently their population at the time. The amount of attacks reported from a particular breed varies directly with the degree to which the breed is overrepresented in the population. In other words, the more of one type of dog there is, the more reports there will be of that particular breed. This is an example of how statistics can lie if they are taken out of context. Statements about causality cannot be made without controlling for externalities such as report error of eye witnesses, degree of representation of the breed in the total population, and blocking for factors like owners with a predisposition to violence. People who are predisposed to violence, bad temper, and a typical ihavesomethingtoprove attitude will tend to choose a "bad ass" dog and subsequently raise it as such. Pitbulls and American Staffordshire terrier (Slightly larger than the pitbull but bred from the same lines) are one of the most popular breeds in current years and are #2 on  the United Kennel Club list of most popular dogs (based on registration data). This data can be found at:
United Kennel Club
This data is taken from a group that is more likely to be responsible dog owners because most people who register their dogs with UKC compete with their dogs. Because of this it may misrepresent the popularity of pitbulls in the total population. Given the propensity of aggressive persons who want dogs to get a pitbull, the breed’s popularity may be underrepresented by the UKC data.

Being large portion of the population of all dogs in the country affects the number of reports of attacks as well as the failure of eyewitnesses to properly identify the type of dog attacking them or another person. The media has created such a fear surrounding these dogs many people assume that it was a pitbull that they saw chasing their child down the street. It is also difficult to determine the breed of a dog solely by looking at it. At this website there are many different photographs of dogs and the user is challenged to pick out the pitbulls from the lot of them.
Find the Pitbull

After trying this myself I discovered that I could not tell the difference between a pitbull and many other breeds of dog, and I OWN A PITBULL. You can imagine the amount of error in eyewitness reports of dog attacks when an informed pitbull owner cant even pick a pitbull out of a lineup.

Pitbulls are not an inherently evil breed. Misused out of context statistics, the “badass” stigma” which attracts aggressive and irresponsible owners, media driven fear, and many inaccurate eyewitness reports due to media driven fear, have all attributed to the general dislike of this wonderful breed. The CDC statistics on dog bite related human fatalities are commonly taken out of context from the rest of the report to “prove” prove that Pitbulls are dangerous. If you read the entire report however, it points out that irresponsible owners are the cause of most attacks. It does not peg the breed as the causal factor for violence. I hope you can read this and take an open minded attitude, looking at all the evidence in context, and make a decision about this breed that is not based on presumptions and fear.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not in my expierence. You must live out in the sticks then.  If I were to pull out my pistol and go around shooting dogs, the police would arrest me! Too funny.

Even though I argue with you about pit bulls on every thread, I still love you.  I don't mean it that way.....................
I mean it in the most gay homosexual kind of way!

Stupid focking parents leaving their kid unnatended with a dangerous animal, I wouldnt leave a young child unnatended with any animal, much less an animal large enough inflict mortal wounds with ease.  I'm kind of torn on this issue.  Yes people should have the right to keep a pet, just like we have the right to bear arms.  The key argument us black rifle enthusiasts use, however, suits this situation nicely.  Guns, if left unnatended, will never ever jump up and start killing people unless someone is pulling the trigger.  Can the same be said of a large breed dog?  Short of a complete cage holding the dog in what is there to garuntee the safety of neighborhood children.  How many owners of large breed dogs are willing to instate such security measures?  Bottom line is a gun cant hurt people on its own, a large dog can.  Yes small dogs can bite  too but can they chew off a 4 year olds scalp?  Fiddo sure is cute but must you really own a fiddo capable of inflicting such serious damage on its OWN whims?  Once we develop electronic handguns and 'assault' rifles controlled by AI I will support their banning  

Quoted: Here is my personal story of the very first time I met a pit bull. In 1983, when we were living in Hawaii my kids were playing in the yard with our six month old golden retriever.  I was out there mowing the yard.  Like most goldens, he was a big dopey mutt who wouldn't hurt a flea.  A little neighbor girl happened by with a couple of other kids...and her six month old pit bull pup.  Good family, well treated and well loved pit bull.  No signs of abuse whatsoever. Pretty soon we were all sitting there watching the pups have fun playing and nipping at each other.  Our golden was much bigger than the little pit bull but I noticed that the pit's mouth appeared to be much larger in relation to the overall size of the dog.  The dogs were both laying down, next to each other,  both on leashes held by the girls.   I was not concerned much...since I'd heard very little at that time about pit bulls. VERY suddenly, and without a single bit of warning, the pit bull grabbed our golden by the throat...HARD!  In a flash the golden was totally helpless and trapped absolutely firmly in the frozen jaws of the pit bull pup.  Our dog almost went limp and just whined a bit.  I could see the terror on his mug.  Nothing like this had ever happend to him in his young life.  His litter mates and he had always played...and sometimes nipped a bit too hard but never had he been so OWNED as he was at that instant. The young owner of the pit tried to get her pooch to let go without success.  I intervened and grabbed the pit's jaws and tried to pry it off of our dog as she was jerking on her leash vigorously.  In a matter of maybe 15 - 30 seconds we had the dogs apart and there was no damage.  The pit bull acted like there was absolutely nothing out of the ordinary...almost as if it had never happened.  Our golden decided it was the better part of valor to leave the smaller pooch alone and we took him in the house. The neighbors left without further incident...basically, no harm...no foul. That lesson was NOT lost on me however.  That pit bull pup had not been around long enough to be affected by its environment.  It was living in a good home as part of a military family.  In fact, at first glance it appeared to be a loving, friendly pup, much like our golden...THEN there was that instantaneous reaction to some stimuli that caused it to react. I could not help but wonder...what if that had been an adult pit bull dog and it had reacted thus to a child...or another dog? Sadly, in the last few years, even in our own community, we've seen far too many cases of pit bull dogs going off of their rockers...FOR WHATEVER REASON...and attacking and occasionally killing humans or another pet.  That is wrong and must be ended now.

Pit Bulls were bred specificaly to fight other dogs. Some dogs are good at bringing stuff back, some dogs are very agile and quick. Pit Bulls are very very good at fighting. It is a self rewarding behavior for them. The dog that went after your dog probably meant no harm, but Pit Bulls play rough. They tend to be insensitive to pain (or ignore it if they are in it) and have a determination that has to be seen to be believed.

That said, why would you let a kid take a large strong dog for a walk? More to the point, why would you let a dog of a breed KNOWN AND BRED for dog aggression play with a strange dog?

I don't let mine "play" with other dogs (with the exception of our other 2 dogs), and I don't allow her to be anywhere near a little kid. Not because she is a Pit Bull, but because she is a big ass dog! She can (and has) knock me to the ground. A little kid is no match for a large dog at all!

My Pit doesn't start fights with the other dogs. When the other dogs start fights, she will join them happily, but for all the sound and fury, the worst I have ever seen is a bloody nose. I have no fears about wading into a dog fight in my laundry room. I have never even been nipped while I was breaking up a fight. Head butted and stomped on yes, but never bitten.

GT
It's the individual animal and owner. Not the breed as a whole. My pig dog is a part of my family as far as I am concerned. Any attempts by anyone to hurt my dogs will be dealt with accordingly.
YMMV

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not in my expierence. You must live out in the sticks then.  If I were to pull out my pistol and go around shooting dogs, the police would arrest me! Too funny. Even though I argue with you about pit bulls on every thread, I still love you.  I don't mean it that way..................... I mean it in the most gay homosexual kind of way!

I have no doubt.  I've gotten use to it.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not in my expierence. You must live out in the sticks then.  If I were to pull out my pistol and go around shooting dogs, the police would arrest me! Too funny.

When you were the PoPo, how many mutts did you have to kill?  

Did ever you arrest yourself for shooting a dog?  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Grunteled, WADR, you just made my case. WADR? With All Due Respect.  No sarcasm intended.  I respect your position.  I happen to disagree.  My first concern is for the little ones who keep being killed or maimed by these dogs.

None taken.  I can handle it if someone don't agree.  

even the bite statistics dont take into account that a most breeds of dogs will BITE when provoked...pit bulls tear off scalps/limbs...whatever.

Quoted: Quoted: Here is my personal story of the very first time I met a pit bull. In 1983, when we were living in Hawaii my kids were playing in the yard with our six month old golden retriever.  I was out there mowing the yard.  Like most goldens, he was a big dopey mutt who wouldn't hurt a flea.  A little neighbor girl happened by with a couple of other kids...and her six month old pit bull pup.  Good family, well treated and well loved pit bull.  No signs of abuse whatsoever. Pretty soon we were all sitting there watching the pups have fun playing and nipping at each other.  Our golden was much bigger than the little pit bull but I noticed that the pit's mouth appeared to be much larger in relation to the overall size of the dog.  The dogs were both laying down, next to each other,  both on leashes held by the girls.   I was not concerned much...since I'd heard very little at that time about pit bulls. VERY suddenly, and without a single bit of warning, the pit bull grabbed our golden by the throat...HARD!  In a flash the golden was totally helpless and trapped absolutely firmly in the frozen jaws of the pit bull pup.  Our dog almost went limp and just whined a bit.  I could see the terror on his mug.  Nothing like this had ever happend to him in his young life.  His litter mates and he had always played...and sometimes nipped a bit too hard but never had he been so OWNED as he was at that instant. The young owner of the pit tried to get her pooch to let go without success.  I intervened and grabbed the pit's jaws and tried to pry it off of our dog as she was jerking on her leash vigorously.  In a matter of maybe 15 - 30 seconds we had the dogs apart and there was no damage.  The pit bull acted like there was absolutely nothing out of the ordinary...almost as if it had never happened.  Our golden decided it was the better part of valor to leave the smaller pooch alone and we took him in the house. The neighbors left without further incident...basically, no harm...no foul. That lesson was NOT lost on me however.  That pit bull pup had not been around long enough to be affected by its environment.  It was living in a good home as part of a military family.  In fact, at first glance it appeared to be a loving, friendly pup, much like our golden...THEN there was that instantaneous reaction to some stimuli that caused it to react. I could not help but wonder...what if that had been an adult pit bull dog and it had reacted thus to a child...or another dog? Sadly, in the last few years, even in our own community, we've seen far too many cases of pit bull dogs going off of their rockers...FOR WHATEVER REASON...and attacking and occasionally killing humans or another pet.  That is wrong and must be ended now. Pit Bulls were bred specificaly to fight other dogs. Some dogs are good at bringing stuff back, some dogs are very agile and quick. Pit Bulls are very very good at fighting. It is a self rewarding behavior for them. The dog that went after your dog probably meant no harm, but Pit Bulls play rough. They tend to be insensitive to pain (or ignore it if they are in it) and have a determination that has to be seen to be believed. That said, why would you let a kid take a large strong dog for a walk? More to the point, why would you let a dog of a breed KNOWN AND BRED for dog aggression play with a strange dog? I don't let mine "play" with other dogs (with the exception of our other 2 dogs), and I don't allow her to be anywhere near a little kid. Not because she is a Pit Bull, but because she is a big ass dog! She can (and has) knock me to the ground. A little kid is no match for a large dog at all! My Pit doesn't start fights with the other dogs. When the other dogs start fights, she will join them happily, but for all the sound and fury, the worst I have ever seen is a bloody nose. I have no fears about wading into a dog fight in my laundry room. I have never even been nipped while I was breaking up a fight. Head butted and stomped on yes, but never bitten. GT It's the individual animal and owner. Not the breed as a whole. My pig dog is a part of my family as far as I am concerned. Any attempts by anyone to hurt my dogs will be dealt with accordingly. YMMV

You need to re-read my posting.  My pup and the other pup were playing on the grass in front of the house.  Both dogs were about 4 -6 months old.  I was NOT letting my daughter take our dog for a walk.  The neighbor's child was walking their pit bull and not having any trouble doing so.  We were just playing in the yard with our golden.  When they arrived, the dogs began to play.

Glad to hear about your dogs not being overly aggressive and non-violent.  That in no way fixes the problem we have in our society with violent, aggressive pit bull dogs.

Quoted: You need to re-read my posting.  My pup and the other pup were playing on the grass in front of the house.  Both dogs were about 4 -6 months old.  I was NOT letting my daughter take our dog for a walk.  The neighbor's child was walking their pit bull and not having any trouble doing so.  We were just playing in the yard with our golden.  When they arrived, the dogs began to play. Glad to hear about your dogs not being overly aggressive and non-violent.  That in no way fixes the problem we have in our society with violent, aggressive pit bull dogs.

The neighbor's kid was who I was referring to. Sorry for the misfire.

That being said, the Pit puppy was quite likely playing. APBT puppies are like tanks, and a game of chase for them is more rugby than tag.

I also agree there is a problem with poorly bred and poorly socialized dogs being held by irresponsible owners. Not gonna make the gun=dog analogy, but think of it as the guy up the street that doesn't teach his kids about guns, and then leaves them laying all over the house, loaded and ready to go. One of his kids shoots your your kid. The little kids don't really know any better, but the adult does.

APBT's are capable of doing a good bit of damage. To other dogs, to people, and even to property. They don't understand how powerful they are. It's up to the adult to put limits on the animal. Block walls, Locked fences, NOT FUCKING CHAINING the dogs, not letting the dog play with kids unsupervised. All of those things would go a long way towards improving the image of the breed.

An outright ban is asinine.

My neighbors let their GSD and 2 Huskies run free at night. They came at me (on my motorcycle) and I fended them off long enough to go to my neighbor's house in the middle of the night and bang on his door. Some four letter words were all that was needed to correct the problem. I wouldn't think of proposing a ban on GSD's or Huskies on whole, but the asshat owners need a swift kick in the mouth.

GT
You can have my Pit Bull when you pry her off her soft warm couch. Good Fucking Luck.

Anyone for a game of Lawn-Darts? Oh... wait..  sorry  I was supposed to throw those away...
For the childrens sake, of course.

myitinaw

Quoted: Quoted: You need to re-read my posting.  My pup and the other pup were playing on the grass in front of the house.  Both dogs were about 4 -6 months old.  I was NOT letting my daughter take our dog for a walk.  The neighbor's child was walking their pit bull and not having any trouble doing so.  We were just playing in the yard with our golden.  When they arrived, the dogs began to play. Glad to hear about your dogs not being overly aggressive and non-violent.  That in no way fixes the problem we have in our society with violent, aggressive pit bull dogs. The neighbor's kid was who I was referring to. Sorry for the misfire. That being said, the Pit puppy was quite likely playing. APBT puppies are like tanks, and a game of chase for them is more rugby than tag. I also agree there is a problem with poorly bred and poorly socialized dogs being held by irresponsible owners. Not gonna make the gun=dog analogy, but think of it as the guy up the street that doesn't teach his kids about guns, and then leaves them laying all over the house, loaded and ready to go. One of his kids shoots your your kid. The little kids don't really know any better, but the adult does. APBT's are capable of doing a good bit of damage. To other dogs, to people, and even to property. They don't understand how powerful they are. It's up to the adult to put limits on the animal. Block walls, Locked fences, NOT FUCKING CHAINING the dogs, not letting the dog play with kids unsupervised. All of those things would go a long way towards improving the image of the breed. An outright ban is asinine. My neighbors let their GSD and 2 Huskies run free at night. They came at me (on my motorcycle) and I fended them off long enough to go to my neighbor's house in the middle of the night and bang on his door. Some four letter words were all that was needed to correct the problem. I wouldn't think of proposing a ban on GSD's or Huskies on whole, but the asshat owners need a swift kick in the mouth. GT You can have my Pit Bull when you pry her off her soft warm couch. Good Fucking Luck.

You guys crack me up.

Quoted: You guys crack me up.

Er...what's so funny critter killer?

Quoted: Quoted: You guys crack me up. Er...what's so funny critter killer?

All of it.  Especially the last part.

How many deaths have you heard of over someone killing someone elses dog?

I've never heard of one.

Killing someone else over a woman, drugs, booze, money, etc. but never a dog.

You guys crack me up.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You guys crack me up. Er...what's so funny critter killer? All of it.  Especially the last part. How many deaths have you heard of over someone killing soneone elses dog? I've never heard of one. Killing somone else over a woman, drugs, booze, money, etc. but never a dog. You guys crack me up.

Off the warm soft couch? Heh. You have obviously never tried to drag a determined APBT off the couch

As for the other, what would your reaction be if someone was in your fenced back yard with a gun?
Put on your flip flops and get a cup of coffee to see if he needs help loading your shit into his truck?
My dogs are a part of the defense system of my house. Deadbolts, alarms, and dogs are the first ring of defense. Or in your days of trotting around in jackboots was your response time to a break in under 4 seconds?

Anyone trying to bypass my doors, windows or dogs, and carrying a weapon is a threat. They will be dealt with accordingly, and ideally before they get to where I am.

As for the kids and dogs thing, I don't have the little crumbsnatchers, and don't want 'em. I don't let my dogs in the house when relatives bring their kids over, just like I make sure all the sharp and pointy things are out of reach. I do that because it is the responsible thing to do.

GT

I was pulled around by a Rottie today. Jumped up and latched on to my arm and pulled me to the ground. He wasn't actually attacking me, just playing rough. I wasn't paying attention (I was talking to a customer) and he tanked me off my feet..Bad rottie, no poodle for you.

Ben

glock223, they are not more prone to attack than any other dog.  Your wrong and there are no and I mean no facts to back your statement so bring facts not your biased opinion to the discussion next time.  There are dogs that are a hell of allot more likely to bite than pit bulls but someone that would do a little research would know that.  The only reason that a pit bull attack is what it is today is the power they can put into their bite, not because of how often they use it.  

My dogs (a pit and an akita) don't fight.  They play hard but the akita at about 9 months old is getting the better of my 2yr old pit baby killing monster.  There have not been that many attacks by pit bulls since we started keeping track of attacks.  They account for about 20% of fatalities (like 700 nation wide since 1965) because of their destructive power not how likely they are to bite.  They actually bite ALLOT less people than other breeds and if you look at the CDC's way of determining what breed it was that attacked in the first place you will also see that not all of the pit related fatalities were done by actual pit bulls but animals that were identified incorrectly.

Children and adults are injured and maimed for life by dogs every day but 9 out of 10 times it is not a pit bull but other breeds that are more likely to bite in the first place.  All in all less attacks happen by this breed than many others and in the last 35 years they have accounted for less than 200 fatalities.  

There have probably been allot more people killed falling down a flight of stairs by far since 1965.  This is not a plague.  There are not herds of rabid pit bulls running the streets and killing children and adults.  This is not going on so get real.