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Posted: 7/11/2001 7:28:00 PM EDT
I KNOW in my heart there is MORE knowledge and experience here ,on this one web site, than the entire web possibly...in the area of my FAVORITE hobby. I also tire of people with bs goodbye speeches... BUT...Above all to MY own self be true... I know VERY few here can relate to what the rebel flag means to me, or blacks in general, BUT..NOW I am forced to having it fly in my face, over and over every time I switch pages it seems... I know we have a few admitted race baiters, and thats fine. McUzi and andreausan MORE than have the right(only 2 that come to mind), AND can kiss my entire ass. I deal with that crap all the time. But I have been flippin this whole flag thing over in my head for the last few days. I dont go where I have to see it, for what it stirs inside me. Further there is NO place for me anywhere it flies. I know this board needs money, but at what cost? Do we take political situated monies? If HCI flew a NRA flag, would they be welcome? Sorry....I cant act like all is ok, with that POS in my face.....Its not... Thought I could, but I cant...
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:34:12 PM EDT
What flag?
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:34:28 PM EDT
don't cry forever about it. JUST LEAVE!
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:35:36 PM EDT
Sorry dude.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:35:50 PM EDT
You mean the georgia precision add ???
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:37:34 PM EDT
What exactly does this flag make you feel like? are you old enough to remember slave times or is it just what it stands for to you? Chris
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:38:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2001 7:35:55 PM EDT by Who_Me]
Originally Posted By Butkus 51: You mean the georgia precision add ???
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You mean somebody actually looks at ads??? [:D] CavVet, Write Georgia Precision if you have a problem with their ad.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:42:15 PM EDT
Do you mean the GPSS advertisement? If so, I would urge you to reconsider and stay. Its an advertisement - it doesn't reflect the views of the vast majority of people here. It only expresses the views of GPSS (or maybe their inability to grasp the concept that some gun owners and potential customers may find that flag offensive).
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:43:16 PM EDT
This is a bullshit thread. in New York we have over a million Puerto Ricans living here, with 1000's of them only flying the countries flag on thier cars & homes. You don't see me bitching & crying everyday over the disrespect these people are showing us(US). Growup & get over it!
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:43:54 PM EDT
The Confederate flag means something else to other people. My ancestors were Confederates, they shed their blood not to allow the wealthy 1% of whites in the South to own slaves, but to fight against a political-economic war that was forced on us by the North. I could go into a history diatribe about what the REALLY was about (news flash, didn't have much to do with slavery), but I'm not going to. I appreciate the way black people feel, but I don't think that any of us should be held hostage by one person who doesn't bother to understand how some non-racist Confederates might feel about the flag. If you don't like the flag, don't look at it. I'm not a baiter, but I'm not going to coddle your personal problem with a symbol of MY heritage.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:44:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:44:57 PM EDT
Although I try to understand your reasoning I can't. A flag is a symbol. To you it is a negative symbol. To others it is a symbol of pride or history. It means different things to different people. Therefore, the true reason lies within your own heart. Your perception is your reality and no one can fault you for that. But if you follow your logic to its conclusion then you had better stay away from the American Flag as well. It has been the flag of oppression at times as well. Do what you will and I wish you well but in my opinion you are overreacting. Peace, Aggie1
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:45:03 PM EDT
Get over yourself. All we ever hear out of you people is slavery this, oppression that. I got news for you, most people are tired and bored of hearing it. Don't go away mad, just go away.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:47:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:49:41 PM EDT
Cav? Are you talking about the Georgia Precision ad someone mentioned earlier in the post? I mean, that flag has been around for ages and featured on many a southern flag for a long time. I look at that flag and see years and years of honorable people trying to keep a tradition of honor alive. It fronted an army fighting in dark times, believing in what they were doing and rightly so. The whole civil war in my opinion wasn't about slavery anyway...but that's another thread I'm not gonna get involved with anyway. Those that have used the Stars And Bars to front their race hating beliefs are at fault here. Notice that during many of the rally's held by the KKK, the American Flag was prominently dispayed more so than the Stars And Bars. We still, or many of us anyway, still rally behind it. Well...that's this FNG's opinion anyway..hope you reconsider.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:53:28 PM EDT
Saw a show on fox the other day about some silly bitch state rep who refuses to say the pledge of aligience because she (and others) think that old glory is a symbol of racism and global oppression. soooo, if you feel that way about one flag why not another ?? how far can you take it ??
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:53:28 PM EDT
Hate to see you leave.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:55:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 7:57:45 PM EDT
AR15.com is an addiction. It's been said on here time and time again. you'll be back. they always come back!!!
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:00:25 PM EDT
BTW, how do you feel about the afro headed smilie ??? [@:D]
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:01:14 PM EDT
CavVet, I like you, sincerely I do. I respect you and you would be welcome in my home at any time. I do not say that lightly nor would that apply to all members of this board. It only applies to those whom I feel like I can relate to on my level and ones that are mature and well respected among their peers. You have all of that and I am proud to call you my friend. But you would not want to come to my house. Not because of me as a person. Not because you believe me to be a racist or because I have made remarks about you or people of your race. I have not. You would not want to come to my home not because of anything I represent. It is a shame to I think. I believe we would find that we have much in common...as we have already learned from reading one anothers post here. I believe we could talk about the times we had in the military and our views on the world we live in. We could drink a cold one together, talk about old times and share war stories. We might even sneak in a little shooting while we were at it. But it could not happen. Not because you are not welcome...you are. And not because of the "kind" of person I am. We share too many things in common and share many feelings in our dedication to our country. But you would not come. You would not come because of an inanimate object I have in my front yard. You see I have a flag poll and on that poll is a Confederate flag. I don't know what you see when you look at it. But I know I see my heritage and take pride in it. I see a time when Americans were still willing to fight for states and individual rights and not the sniveling liberal cowards we have today. To me it is not a symbol of racism at all. I to have one tattooed on my upper left arm. It is a bald eagle, the symbol of America and her freedom and the Harley Davidson emblem with the HD letters fallen below that emblem itself. The tattoo does not represent racism to me. It is a tattoo of a design my brother-in-law created to hae air brushed on his tank after he returned from a road trip. He was killed in a bike accident and never made it back. The day after he funeral I went to the tattoo parlor and had the artist give me that tattoo. The only change I made was dropping the letters low to represent a fallen brother. But if you looked at that tattoo you would only see that Confederate flag and see a racist. You would never take the time to learn what it means to me or why I wear it so proudly. You look at me and the things around me and judge me based on them and not on me. I like you Cav. But I ask you....who is the racist here?
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:10:51 PM EDT
CavVet: Do some more research on the flag. I don't think it stands for what you're thinking. If I had a link to more info on it, I'd certainly put it up. Perhaps someone else on the Forum has the information for us all. Stick around. We'll figure it out. TEAM.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:11:33 PM EDT
You have been [b]SPUN[/b] about what the meaning of the flag is. In addition it is the damn state flag of Georgia. Calling the flag a POS just further reinforces that you are drowning in your own ignorance. Ill stop now and let others make personal remarks. [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/023/RX/HD/Lm/cA58407.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:13:40 PM EDT
Think about how those with ophidiophobia must feel.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:16:14 PM EDT
CavVet, if you are the kind of person I think you are this is for you: If you perceive the rebel flag(still unsure what exactly is being referred to)as a racist symbol and let it be the cause of leaving a place that brings enjoyment to you.......they win. "They" being the racist who use the rebel flag to promote "their" cause. Did you know Hitler did NOT create the swastika? The swastika was first used as the PRIMARY symbol of the Shaolin temple more than 1,000 years ago and is still prevelant among orthodox Budhists. The Vikings where the first to use it in their Rhunic symbols and letters. Hitler used the old Rhunic symbols to unite a people defined by common heritage and steer them in a new direction. Sound familiar? The Vikings did NOT create the swastika because they hated jews. But the result is, the swastika is tainted. Certain Indian tribes, I believe Navajo, now no longer use it despite being part of their tradition and most followers of Shoalin arts don't use it anymore. My point is, don't let the racists of the country define the symbol for you. Or you let them win. They will have in fact defined the image FOR YOU and caused you to feel uncomfortable any place it is displayed. The old fart across the street has a rebel flag flying. But he don't mean nothin' by it. If you are NOT the kind of person I thought you were and you let the people who hate you define your life, well it was nice knowing you and I think it's a shame.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:20:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2001 8:30:51 PM EDT by Sukebe]
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By uncle buck: All we ever hear out of you people . . .
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All we ever hear out of YOU PEOPLE (racist assholes) is vitriole. I believe you indicated you are an LEO? If so, you give decent men a bad name. Screw you--[-!-]
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You belive I'm a racist because I use the phrase "you people"!?! You sir have been blinded by political correctness. This is the USA I will say what I want to who ever I want how ever I want to say it and you people(white guilt apologists) won't stop me. Your ignorance gives you a bad name, just you not the "decent men" who also are employed in your occupation. You have the balls to accuse me of judging a group by the individual!?! Listen to yourself. You can let this guy cry on your shoulder if you want to. The flag means too much for too many people to get rid of it over hurt feelings. When will those with hurt feelings stop imposing on other peoples lives?
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:26:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2001 8:38:59 PM EDT by gardenWeasel]
Originally Posted By shaggy: Do you mean the GPSS advertisement? If so, I would urge you to reconsider and stay. Its an advertisement - it doesn't reflect the views of the vast majority of people here. It only expresses the views of GPSS (or maybe their inability to grasp the concept that some gun owners and potential customers may find that flag offensive).
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What view??? State pride????
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:32:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2001 8:37:14 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:36:54 PM EDT
Are we through name calling yet, cheese head?
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:45:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:47:32 PM EDT
i think there is little left to say about his issue. our fellow members have said it all. the CBF does not stand for racism or slavery and the Civil War was not about slavery. i am proud of the Stars and Bars because it represents heritage, my hertitage. i am not racist and i have appreciated CavVet's input to this board. i would hate to see you go because some ignorant racists use this as a symbol and it has tainted your interpretation of it's meaning. i personally choose to keep a CBF neatly folded on a shelf in my living room to represent the men who fell fighting for a just cause. yes, this is in part due to the way that most people look at the flag. i dont want anyone to walk into my house and automatically think i am racist because i fly the flag on the wall. CavVet, dont leave, just let this thread change the way you think about the people's (who fly the CBF) interpretation of it's meaning.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:55:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet: I know we have a few admitted race baiters, and thats fine. McUzi and andreausan MORE than have the right(only 2 that come to mind), AND can kiss my entire ass.
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Does this mean because they have an invitation they get get to cut ahead of everyone else?
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 8:58:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 9:05:36 PM EDT
Hey Paul[-!-] Stay in PRK and shut the fuck up.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 9:15:09 PM EDT
Cav, before you decide to go, please consider downloading some spam blocking software for your computer. I know they have stuff that will block all those kinds of ads. No offense to ar15.com or the flag, but if you don't like looking at it, the software will make it disappear.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 9:16:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2001 9:27:40 PM EDT by Confederate]
Come down South and say that Paul.[-!-][flag]
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 9:18:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 10:13:55 PM EDT
So long CavVet. Hope you do return. I agree, there is another perspective on the Confederate flag and the Civil War. Here's something I wrote years ago, staring at a Statue on the grounds of the Texas State Capitol. The little boy stands still, looking to the sky. A memorial of Confederate Soldiers, reflected in his eye. He looks up at his father, His beard, his eyes, his face. Just like the soldier made of stone, a man of no disgrace. He reaches to the leather jacket, that his father wears. And touches the Confederate flag, a common bond they share. This man that some call evil, who some say is no good. Will raise this boy on Honor, Respect and Brotherhood. And someday when this boy becomes, the man he is to be. I hope just once he'll bring his son, to come and look at me. For I am a Confederate Son, no longer shall I roam. Free across this country, this land that I called home. Hear me brothers North & South, these words I have to say. The freedoms that I cherished, may disappear someday. The people of this nation, born here on this land. Have let "The Power of the People", slip out of their hands. The principles that made this nation, Proud and Brave and Strong. Must be remembered by you all.... Please don't take too long! I remember, this is the time in my life when I couldn't understand why anyone would want to own an AR15. I know why now! WSmac
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 10:15:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garden weasel:
Originally Posted By shaggy: Do you mean the GPSS advertisement? If so, I would urge you to reconsider and stay. Its an advertisement - it doesn't reflect the views of the vast majority of people here. It only expresses the views of GPSS (or maybe their inability to grasp the concept that some gun owners and potential customers may find that flag offensive).
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What view??? State pride????
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You're right, I stand corrected. The flag in the GPSS advertisement only expresses the view that GPSS likes displaying the confederate flag in their advertisements; nothing less, nothing more. It has nothing to do with anything else, including state pride. I think you know what I meant, but I'll expound on my point in case it escaped you. I was talking about how CavVet sees that flag and what it represents to him. He perceives it as a symbol of racism, not of state pride. If he views acceptance and tolerance of that symbol in the GPSS advertisement on this site as a tacit endorsement, or at least acceptance, of a racist ideal by the patrons of this site, I think he is wrong. The inclusion of that perceived symbol of racist ideals does not reflect an actual endorsement of those racist ideals by the majority of patrons here. Happy now?
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 10:26:54 PM EDT
Nice Wsmac!
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 10:56:47 PM EDT
I don't have a problem with black folks... Just haven't met one that I liked yet... I try to give everyone a fair chance, and without fail, every single time I've had an encounter with black folks, It's eventually turned bad... So, if you don't like the flag... Tuff-Shit...deal with it!!! I've got to deal with the fact that my home lost $20,000 in value, the day a black family moved in across the street from me... I couldn't sell my house right now if I wanted to... Maybe if I fly the confederate flag on my property, they will move back to the city where they came from... Funny how I never saw the local police in my neighborhood,'till they moved in...The police have been to their house at least 5-6 times in the last 6 months... (stolen bikes/scooters/toys/etc...) (trash piling up/ grass not cut) I've got to deal with all this BULLSHIT, and some asshole is crying about having to look at a goddamn picture of a flag on his computer screen!!! GIVE ME A BREAK !!!
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 11:41:16 PM EDT
So.....CavVet, you want to leave because an advertisement depicts the Confederate Battle flag ?? I didn't think you would fall for the race baiting perpetrated by the media. Race baiting is EXACTLY what the media engages in by keeping this bullshit issue alive. Styer Aug makes an exelent point regarding symbols. the Buddhists also believe the swastika to be good luck. there was an incident in my town not long ago where some lady was driving by a cemetary and saw a new grave marked with flowers in the patern of a swastika(reverse of the one used by the NSDAP).This lady proceded to go into the cemetary and tore up the gravesite. Because of her ignorance and the fact that she didn't go to the director of the cemetary for an explination to her concerns, she ended up being charged and convicted of a felony !! not to mention the family of the deceased goin f%*king balistic.My point is,the CBF is a symbol used by some as heritage and tradition.[^] Others as a symbol of hate[V](I can't figure out how THAT works). If you buy into the media and the lefts view, then you have been brainwashed by them. As guny Sgt. Tom Highway (Clint Eastwood) said,"DON"T GIVE THE PRICKS THE SATISFACTION". Leave if you must,but don't buy into the bullshit the left keeps trying to ram down our throats [:)]
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 1:13:27 AM EDT
A little history is in order. Go here: [url]http://www.icss.com/usflag/confederate.stars.and.bars.html[/url] Note that the "Stars and Bars" (AKA Navy Jack)isn't even the official flag of the Confederacy.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 1:40:56 AM EDT
The letters "NRA" are a symbol of hate to a lot of ignorant people as well. They represent gun owners and the evil and vile things that guns have done. We all know that only a few gun owners actually commit crimes using firearms, but there it is. I am not from the south, but I have a good idea what the flag means to most. About the same as my great grandfathers model 94 Winchester means to me now. Heritage, roots, background, tradition. It's where I come from and a vital part of who I am. It doesn't mean I'm a killer, or a freak, or an inbred backwoods hillbilly. It just means I'm proud of who I am. Always judge the individual who uses the symbols, not the symbols themselves. Lest you become the bigot you despise.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 3:33:02 AM EDT
I tend to think the whole "battle flag" issues is divide and conquer tactics by the Leftist antis. Look at the hate they spew against Christians. These are NOT the most kindhearted, sensitive people. But I'm NOT gonna let them divide and conquer here. TO EVERYONE - hold to your cherished beliefs - it is what makes America great. But this one is LOCKED.
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