I have been in LE for ten years and SWAT for 7. I have only been involved in two "shootouts", however I fired no shots. I work in a suburb of Youngstown, Oh. I promised myself I wouldn't reply to LE threads anymore, but....

One was back in 1995 during a domestic with two brothers. They had two officers pinned odwn in their front yard with fire from an SKS, wounding one officers in his right arm. They gave up when the SWAT team arrived.

The last was in Feb 2001 and involved a guy holding 20+ policemen at bay with various weapons, including a 300win magnum bolt gun, a win 30-30 lever, a .22 semi-auto, and a 12ga pump Remington. Apparently, the guy was upset over a repeated alarm at a cable business that was close to his property...so he went there and shot up the business (which was closed at the time). The responding officer, to a shots fired and alarm call, saw a man walking in the road carrying a shotgun and challenged him. The guy opened fire on the officer, striking only his vehicle, and fled into the rear yards. We searched for him for over two hours, with him taking pot shots at us the whole time. We had no idea where he was, as he had taken several positions of cover, eventually hiding in his house. Once he began firing from the house, we were able to pinpoint his location. We set a perimeter and notified SWAT. Apparently, the guy became impatient and came out his front door and walked down the street firing. Ten officers engaged him, striking him with buckshot and pistol rounds. Amazingly, no one with an AR or other rifle was in firing position. We found the above weapons in his house, as well as ammo stacked up in various locations. It was a good thing that he wasn't too committed on killing us, as he definately had the means. I truely believe he thought about it, and decided suicide was better....but I don't know for sure. As it turned out, I walked through his yard several times, not knowing he lived there or that he was in that particular house.

The guy did wound one policeman in his neck, and shot up six cruisers.

I know all of this sounds like faulty tactics, but factor in officers from agencies that don't normally work together, the time of night, and incompatible radio systems and it all equals a cluster.

I have been on numerous other SWAT calls, and its hard to measure what would have happened if there was no tac team. We don't encounter assault type weapons frequently, but I have seen AK's, SKS's, short-barrel shotguns, and one full auto mac. Usually, we see high-points and Jennings, etc.

You are wrong ONCE A VIOLENT FELON ALWAYS A VIOLENT FELON. Do yo want a guy that commited 100 "non-violent" felonies, say forgery packing heat?? Doesn't a continued crime spree say something about his thought process??

If you want to say there are too many laws that are felonies or that some felons shouldnt be locked up I think you may be right. Again I have seen this process work, there is a strong attempt to keep from making a first offense a felony conviction. Usually felons are "created" by a serious crime against person or a felony after a string of lesser convictions.

Ande: No what I'm saying is NOT what is wrong with the US. What I'm saying is that when we reach adulthood we are considered to be independent persons capable of making contracts, getting married, and enjoying our Constitutional Rights. No-one has the ability to make us prove ourselves worthy of those Rights.

But if you prove by your actions that you are not capable of being a responsible citizen, by a crime spree, you have Rights restricted, with Due Process etc.

All I'm saying is adults are expected to act like adults. That is different than the excuse makers or the people over at HCI that believe citizens can't be trusted with guns or alcohol or whatever.

I believe every citizen should be allowed the unrestricted exercise of their Rights. Whether that is wanting to keep and arm bears or whatever.  

The problem is that too many minor crimes are considered felonies nowadays. The problems comes from the law that says a misdeameanor can only carry 1 year in jail. In many cases society wishes to give several years of probation or a few years in jail for something that deserves the time, but not the loss of rights. For example, the leader of "Democracia" was arrested the other day and could face felony charges for allowing his boat to enter Cuban waters during an anti-Castro protest. The most ridiculous thing is that the law was created to punish Castro. His entering Cuban waters (He was a Cuban-American.) had no effect on the situation. The charges were retaliation for his involvemenet in the Elian situation, where a Federal Agent hit him up the side of the head with his shotgun, sending him to the hospital with a bloodied ear/head. He now faces 10 years in Federal Prison and forfeiture of his RKBA as well as voting rights. The sad thing is we need more people like him to stand up to the Democrats. Should crossing a border make you a felon. I think not. Among other situations were minor offenses where 2 or 3 year probations were ordered, yet they are considered Felonies. The should be very few non-violent felonies. In many cases, computer hackers face 10+ years in Federal Prison and 20 years of probation for hacking a useless government system. Even if they didn't view any information. As a member of the IT world, I see grave problems with taking away the rights of hackers. These are honset law-abiding citizens who have fun by entering computers illegally. All violent crimes should be felonies and subject you to forfeiture of rights. Certain non-violent crimes such as Drug offenses (Sales), Treason, etc. should be subject to the same restrictions. The misdeameanor law needs to be revamped to allow for another class of non-felonies, with greater punishments than a misdeameanor. These would fall into the 1 - 5 years in prison time frame or Probation for 10 years or less. This should incorporate most non-violent felonies, so that these people don't lose their rights.

I've only been an LEO for a few months, but during my third week, two sheriff's deputies attempting to serve a warrant were shot by an individual armed with an SKS.  One officer was shot a total of twelve times, obliterating his head.  I carry my Glock 23, an 870, and soon will have a Bushmaster at my disposal while on duty.  I have no intention of using these tools with an arbitrary attitude, but will be glad to have them if needed.  Everyone has seen the video of the bank robbers armed with automatic weapons and clothed in body armor.  That is reality.  LEO's today are expected to endure harsh public scrutiny, frequent criticism, and at the same time protect the safety of the law-abiding public-at-large.  We know that when we pin on the badge, and are aware of it every day when we show up for briefing.  Our families cringe almost daily watching the news, knowing we could be next.  
There has been and will continue to be poor judgement and mistakes will be made. There are LEO's at all levels that are undeserving of the power and responsibility we are entrusted with, however by and large, we are honest, hardworking individuals who deserve any and all tools available to aid us in our unatainable goal: a peaceful society.  
Every citizen ought to have the right to own whatever firearms he or she chooses, though some make decisions that will limit that right.  Were I not an LEO, it would still make me extremely uncomfortable to know that Mike the paroled felon, who has shown a propensity for crime to purchase a weapon that may be used in the commission of crimes that said felon CHOOSES to commit.

Actually, you are right Custer is a bad example, but was using his name to bring forth the brevet aspect, and should not have used his name in the same line, he was military!

As in any situation that would require the militia to cast off a tyrannical form of government, it would be the people themselves who choose their militia leader, not the tyrant!

Early militia leaders were empowered by those who served under them, as was the intent of the founding fathers (ref: Federalist Papers #46 Madison)! In a great many cases these elected officers were extended a field commission by a military officer or some public official that is on the same side of the fence, others however were never extended any commissions whatsoever, thus the purely brevet status, revisionist history however has painted the purely brevet types as nothing more than imposters,  if I am wrong, please correct me!!!!!!!!!

It's hard to believe that someone who can not spell or complete a sentence has the education level to read and/or understand the documents you speak of.

Several of our Deputies were held down by fire from an AK just last year. Of course he had just killed his ex-wife and her boyfriend. He only held us down for an hour. It just amazes me that .40 caliber is ineffective against 7.62.

You want to get really pissed, most CEO's of the top corps. spell even worse and they run things, there are those who are employed to cross the T's and dot the I's! Is not life a bitch, when one who is not the worlds best speller can be the boss, and make the most$$$$$$$$$????????, Man want a bitch!!!!!!

Actually, you are a rare one these days compared to what is seen in the media! If all you say is from the heart, I commend you, and wish your values would wipe off on many others who need to understand their actions, are the problem!!!!!!

You are misusing the term Brevet again Andreusan. Custer graduated from the US Military Academy in 1860 as a 2d lt. of cavalry. He was appointed a col. in the Michigan "Wolverines" Cavalry by the governor of the state of Michigan. He rose to the war time only rank, thus Brevet rank of Major General. At the end of the war, his permant Regular Army rank was Captian. He was appointed the field commander, (executive officer) of the 7th Cavalry Regiment when it was formed in 1866 with the regular army rank of Lt. Col. He was not the regemental commander, but acted as such because Col. Sturgis as I recall was away on recruiting duty. The regiment itself was seldom together, being scattered over the west in garrisons of as small as one company. Elected officers were common in the first rush to mobolize state militias for the civil war. This soon faded as being popular and being comptent seldom were the same.
Life Member Garry Owen Chapter of the First Cavalry Division Association.

I use it as honorary for militia, and temporary for military! (Blacks Law)

Early Chow Recruit: You are from Florida I see, so don't you remember Orange County? Two homicide detectives and one state trooper murdered by child killer with a folding stock, 30 round mag SKS?
Escambia County, deputies spot a murderer-he had just killed his ex-girlfriends new boyfriend, shootout in the middle of the highway. He was armed with a Mini-14, they were armed with Sig P229's. One deputy shot through the thigh, several more hit by glass, bullet jackets as the bad guy shot up cruisers. Bad guy ended up dead.
Retired military man shooting up neighborhood with 30 rd. SKS shot and wounded by SWAT after firing off several hundred rounds randomly.
FBI shootout in Miami with Platt and Matix.
And I could go on and on. Just because the last stat's said that the average gunfight was 2 seconds at 7 feet and only 2.5 rounds fired (and that was the stat when I got into the business almost 20 years ago based on NYPD, with all of the semi auto's and large amounts of lead being slung these days, I don't think that is a valid stat anymore) dosen't  mean that I won't be the poor schmuck who runs into the next Platt/Matix/North Hollywood type shootout. Yep, the odds are against it. But I am prepared. I had rather be "over armed" and have too much ammo, and not enough. As losg as the bumper of my '01 Crown Vic does not drag, I am OK.
Whine all you want, the simple fact is, Law Enforcement is merely responding to the increased "militarization" of the general public. Where once the standard was a .22 "saturday night special", now AK's, AR's, Mini 14's, and others are not at all uncommon. I am glad that we are now allowed to carry personally owned rifles again. We had been allowed to, then the former sheriff stopped us from doing so. Then a big shootout with his brother in law being wounded by the Mini armed bad guy, and we were able to teach the class and carry.