Yep!

Why is [i]she[/i] the only one who was inept, and not the other two officers in the photo who are also under fire and don't have their guns out?

And yes I agree it is common sense that, if you have a gun, if you hear gunshots and bullets whistling by, to pull said gun- but because it is common sense and yet the officers don't have them out [b]it means that the officers had to be trained to [i]not[/i]pull them out in that situation![/b]  So why are you saying this woman is dead soley because of [b][i]her[/i][/b] ineptitude [b]when every other officer we can see is doing the exact same thing!?![/b]  Its fucked up, but that doesnt mean that anyone there is incompitant.

I simply ask you to put yourself on the scene as a LEO. In that a bank robber, who just killed an LEO, runs into an apartment and eventually kills himself(no loss).
Two people emerge from the SAME apartment(wearing camo's or not!!), what would you do with them as an LEO.
Would you get them on the ground and cuff them for your safety until you determine if they are a threat or not? Make sense right (common sense)
           

SGB-  What you and some others should and probably do understand is that some others on the this forum are bad guys themselves. So this is a place to vent against LEO who they have "RUN" into. So, no they don't understand what it's like to be chasing someone with a gun and be shot at.

Guess I'll break out the champangne for the piece of garbage perp that killed himself, the cowards way out!

Inept? As in incompetent? And idiotic, which your comments are. Think you could do any better? Then get off your ass, take the exams, and see what kind of job these people got. All I see on this site is cop bashing this and that. The first time (hopefully never) you get yourself in a tight jam you will be PRAYING for an "inept" LEO to come and bail you out.  

Very few topics in the forum get me riled. One of them obviously is the bashing of LEO's, as stated in my response earlier. Secondly, I fail to see how the killing of a human being has anything to do with the enforcement of natural laws. And what does your viewing of her records have anything to do with your being sorry or happy about her death? After reading your postings here, and I've only started, I have decided I don't much care for you. But rest assured if I would hear that you died, yes, I would feel badly about it. More to follow, I'm sure.

Another cop-bashing cocksucker on this board. I told you all this would get me started. And to the other idiot here, No I'm not LE, or even a wannabe, but active duty military, but you probably got a beef against us, too. I PRAY you get in a jam and the cops are at the doughnut shop and don't get to your sorry ass in time.

My, my, if someone wants to bash LEO's its ok, because, they bash militia, and even train to battle militia too, as for you being in the military, have you been on any UNITED NATIONS POLICE ACTIONS AS A PPPPPPPPPEACEKEEPER lately?

DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDamn! No U.N. actions on my part in quite a while. I don't know if sailing around in the Med in support of what we had going on quals me as a peacekeeper or not. Never thought of myself as part of a U.N. police force anyway. Everyone on board was U.S. I let my thoughts go to the keyboard and hit the send button, but I still stand by them, as do you. It's what makes this place interesting.

After reading the story, its obvious that the wrong party went down--should have been the sorry asses that wrote the lead story.  That is the worst piece of writing I've seen in a long time.

Anyway, a question:  how does 18 years' experience automatically mean that the LEO was not inept?  I work daily with folks that have 30 years on the job that are clueless, so longevity mean nothing other than, maybe, luck; in her case, maybe a strong union.

Got to agree with hielo about this though--natural selection always prevails.

Kissel out.

Gotta love what this kind of topic brings out in people.  Mob mentality rules.

Marcy (Heilo) :
I think you are out of line. The link had changed from the original story by the time I found this thread, so I cannot comment on what information that had  about the shooting. However, your comments appear to be without feeling and heartless.
 There are  agencies out there that require that a report be written just for DRAWING a weapon, let alone discharging it. Anyone could see how  that  would tend to slowdown an officers reaction to draw. As has been noted, agencies also discourage chasing someone with a drawn gun.
Nothing about this incident proves that she was "inept". It proves that action beats reaction......and some folks on gun boards wonder why officers shoot people for "furtive movements".
 As for short females, we have a 4'11" female officer. Short? Yes. But also very good.

Rolfe,

You need to read the article before you comment on my comments, sorry.  As to height, if you read the messages that preceeded the one you are commenting on, you will see they have nothing to do witht he officers height, but to a comment made by antoher user.

Gotta read it all to understand where we are going Jim, sorry.

Marcy:
I may not have been able to read the original article, but I find your comments disturbing. You seem overly critical of the deceased officers actions or lack thereof, especially given that the original source is an article from a newspaper..hardly a thorough source of information in an incident such as this.

  I know you didn't make the height comment; I should have addressed that to the poster in question, sorry Bill.

No problem Jim, and actually I am basing my commetns on the three different reports I have read of this (all florida based...)

I don't know about anyone else, but if someone is shooting at me, I think I would not worry about the forms I would have to fill out, or what my superiors would say, I wiould return fire, Her mileage may have varied.

I think everyone is just upset because I haven't gotten weepy over the fact that a LEO was killed, thats OK also, its a big world, room for the weepy and not so weepy.

As a former Tampan, I have some friends on the TPD. From what they tell me, she was a kind and decent person, and by all respects a good cop. As to her tactics on that fatal day, I have not broached the subject with my contacts.
A loss to the community non-the-less.

Nad there you go, someone with first hand knowledge of the person.

The majority of us only get the media side of the incident.  We form our opinions based on that info, for good or bad.

Got me SGB, got me.

She is charged with robbery, homicide, and some other felonies, since she was the male suspects co-criminal and girlfriend.

If this doesn't apply to you don't feel offended.

If it does apply to you I don't care what you think, if you do that is.

This board has a fair number of people who as a matter of course enjoy military rifles. For some it is an interest, for others a sport, and for some it represents a "lifestyle" choice.

Unfortunatley some of you seem to think you are better than everyone else, smarter, more "correct" etc. You do a lot to make gun owners look stupid. And again the idiot faction has shown up in the post.

It is always easier to say what someone coulda, woulda, or shoulda done from your dark little tin foil basement.

A lot of the people on this site piss and moan like little kids when terms like TRT, SWAT, or special police teams are used. They think they, as individuals, should be able to own NFA, AW, or suppressed weapons. But if a police officer has a similiar semi-auto weapon that little yellow streak forms on thier pants.

Many of you complain "police this, police that". You whine when the police pull out weapons or use force. But you are the same keyboard cowards that say ah ha.. when an officer is injured and isn't using the level of force YOU think is right.

Not too long ago there was massive whining from the cry-baby section because a SWAT team was called to put up a perimeter around a distraught person, until the police could talk that person out. If there hadn'e been a shooting incident in this case and SWAT was called out you would again whine overkill...

I also keep reading about you keyboard warriors that are so scared that you feel you must answer your door packing heat if the knock comes at an odd hour. More than a few of your stories have shown that AR-15.com members feel that if soemone is trying to steal a car stereo they feel that pulling a AR-15 is reasonable since the thief may be on drugs, or have an M-1 tank in his undies. At the same time you say you are scared of what a druggie might do several of you say we should legalize drugs.

Yet if an officer drew down on someone for the same thing or seemed concerned about the character of a driver he stopped you whine police abuse.  

Someone even thought that a police officer that got dragged over 1/4 of a mile was out of line for shooting the person that was dragging him after the driver went for a gun.

In short stop whining.

If some of you are that smart that you know it all go over to MD.com and tell surgeons how they should hold scalpels, they'll love that.

There can be and has been interesting, fair debate how an incident or situation was handled, I welcome that.

NO-AR-;(

[blue] You hit the nail on the head, BINGO and BRAVO!!! Some J/O here should have a number across that pictues of his.[/blue]

And, a lot of you complain about the "thin blue line" and the "them vs. us" perception when talking about LEO's. Based on the post on AR-15.com who is causing the them vs. us?? I have yet to see a post that starts "why LEO's think civilians are dumb". But there are more than a few posts that start "LEO abuse of....."

Who is responsible for the thems vs us?? is it you?? think about it.

Hey Palmer,

The picture of that J/O looks like the gay, fat guy off the movie "Boggie Nights"!  Could it be?

What a DICK!!!!

Sorry....couldn't resist.

SEMPER FI
ASO544

No-AR and Palmer, seems it's ok to have a discussion about something, as long as everyone agrees with your side of it .

Welcome to America folks, no one has to agree with you or the police or anyone else, scarey, isn't it?

ASO544, how did you know? .

Nope, not a problem. I have disagreed with others, and learned things from them and I hope I have at least made some think about what I posted even if it doesn't change their opinion, so long as it "airs" a different viewpoint.

However Heilo, I do notice that you like to make childish comments. I don't consider what your doing insightful, it is the web equavilent of "oh yeah sez you, doodie head." No one needs that mentally crippled banter here or anywhere. If you want to make stupid comments why don't you go someplace else where they aren't talking about someone being killed.

Perhaps the corner bar, where your observations about what ever sports team is on the tube "should have done" is appreciated by all the other world class athletes/coaches in the bar. Why don't you go over to a NASCAR site and start saying Earnhardt didn't have to die, he should have done neck strenghtening exercises. Or how YOU wouldn't have been ivolved in the crash due to your superior driving skill.

Holy shit!  This is too funny--keep this thread going.

Lucky guess.....I liked you better in "Twister" though.

SEMPER FI
ASO544

, Sez you.

Too Funny.

I give this at least a 9.3, out of 12, because there are no 10's. Well written and thought out, unlike me, who lets his alligator keyboard overload his tadpole ass. Anyone whose feet I stepped on, sorry, yesterday was not a very good day, and you all won't be paying for my snarly moods.

Looking at other sources, FWIW, I may have more info, no I don't have a link.

3 officers were actively chasing the suspect. The Sgt. was behind them, apparently not actively chasing, trailing.

The suspect ran in an apt comlpex that is constrcuted so there are several buildings that form an "interior" courtyard. The suspect ran into the area in the courtyard and apparently out the other side. The 3 officers continued there pursuit but lost sight of the suspect. At the same time the Sgt. entered the courtyard and became aware of a door opening. A female was coming out to the courtyard. The Sgt. started to ask the female if she had seen where the suspect had gone. The suspect doubled back and fired at the Sgt. from appx 30 feet, from behind. Something like 9 shots fired 3 hits.

Again that is from other sources, I can't say how accurate that account might be.

No-AR, thats what I got also, if you search Florida newspapers you can get a pretty good account of what happened.

Well if that is what you got how does that equal inept, or Darwinism??

Should the Sgt. have been there gun in hand talking to a witness?? I can hear the use of force complaint for that. Would you suggest running with guns?? Think about where your gun would be pointed!! Everywhere that's where.

It sounds like very bad luck the Sgt thought the other officers had just lost the suspect "around the corner", and stopped to ask a witness a couple of questions. The Suspect doubled back so that he blind sided the Sgt. Had he come around 10 seconds prior or 10 seconds later the Sgt probably would have been looking elsewhere maybe right at the suspect. Plus what probably happened is the Sgt. hears that the other officers lost the suspect outside the courtyard, right after that Sgt hears a door open. I don't know about you but I would turn my attention toward the door, just to make sure it isn't the suspect.........

Also not too long ago this board was up in arms because a murder suspect was shot in the back, by 2 police officers. The consensus was shooting someone in the back was "dirty pool". So why isn't it here?? Most police dept's. say there must be "verbalization", "stop, police", before deadly force can be used.  Why isn't it cold blooded murder to sneak up behind a person, who though armed doesn't have their gun in their hand, and shoot them in the head?? She was Pearl Harbored.

It never ceases to amaze me the number of armchair commandos that run their mouths in here.

My prayers to the officers family.

-SARguy

hielo
AR15 Member


NY,  US
272 Posts
Posted - 07/07/2001 :  18:21:14          



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never trust a person who can not apologize when shown he is wrong.


[red] you said it, just like you did here complain then when you meet someone who wants to debate, run run run. And for added spinelessness snipe on other topics with moronic posts[/red]

[size=5]WTF!?

Where in the hell are the moderators? Will someone please lock this thread? It is fine to share our differences, but don’t you think that this has gone on long enough?

It is terrible what happened to the officer (no matter how you view the situation), and the fact that this thread has lasted so long does not reflect positively on AR15.com itself.

Tyler
[/size=5]

EVER HEAR OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH? If you do not like the posts, just say so, but, do not try to curtail others freedom of speech, that's outright un-american of you, are you even American?

DANGERIOUS PATRIOTISM IS THE KIND THAT EMBRACES TYRANNY, AND DEFENDS OUTLAWERY, IN THE NAME OF BEING GOOD AMERICAN!!!!!! WHAT A FRAUD!!!

I am all for freedom of speech, but I am not into members bitching and whining about their differences. You really didn’t need to attack me like that – “that's outright un-american of you, are you even American?” – [i]please[/i].

I stated in my post that it was ok to share our differences – I just perceive this thread to have deteriorated into petty, childish, bitching and whining.

Tyler

tylerdurden1201, why the hell is it so important to you that the thread be locked?  I assure you, we are all capable of deciding for ourselves what we will, or will not, read.

I like it--alot.  This is some of the best entertainment on the internet.

I agree that we should all be able to read and post opinions – I guess perhaps I came across differently. I didn’t mean any disrespect to the other members; I hope that you can all understand that. I just thought this topic had become somewhat disrespectful to the officer who was killed, and her family.

No hard feelings,

Tyler

Remember the days when the LEO was on foot patrol in your neighborhood?
I don’t.
Remember when the LEO lived in your neighborhood or nearby town?
I don’t.
Do you remember having any positive interaction, face to face, with any LEO?
I don’t
I don’t even recall speaking to a LEO that wasn’t in his patrol car.
I only remember the PITA things they did from behind the wheel of their patrol car.

A great part of the problem is that patrol car and a lack of so called “Community Policing”.
[i] I know there is manpower, resource allocation  problems that vehicles help overcome.[/i]
People tend to see police as outsiders with no vested interested in helping the community.
An occupation force that retires to the suburbs at the end of the day.
He doesn’t have to see the people he watches over until his next shift.
The LEO acts with impunity in a neighborhood that he only sees from behind the wheel.
Looking only to write people tickets and locking them up.
Never to worry of a dirty look nor feel the indignation of a neighbor.
His actions would be very different if he knows that he will later see a guy he gave a BS ticket to in the local grocery store.
There would be a lot less Them vs. Us attitude if the LEO were one of us.