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Posted: 7/3/2001 12:45:52 PM EDT
I'm an LEO and I have almost 100 AR mags, none marked LEO/MIL. Just can't seem to bring myself to buy the LEO marked mags. I'd feel uncomfortable at the range knowing what everyone else has to pay for their mags. What do you say?
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 1:41:56 PM EDT
I would if I could get a letterhead for them. Since I won't ever get a letterhead from my department for them I just keep buying pre ban mags.
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 2:13:47 PM EDT
Deanh: Start a revolution!!! Buy post-ban LEO only mags and sell them to civilians in large quantities, get everybody in your department to do the same thing. Eventually the AWB will have as much meaning as speed limits. [uzi]
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 4:00:16 PM EDT
I have a couple of AR mags that were "gifted" to me from active duty military folks. The other 35 are preebie's.
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 4:56:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 5:38:13 PM EDT
If I'd find any I'd buy them right away. Screw the ATF.
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 6:59:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By libertyof76: If I'd find any I'd buy them right away. Screw the ATF.
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DITTO!
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 7:45:45 PM EDT
Nope. The only "LEO-only" mags I have are the ones my department issued me, and I only use those on duty. I buy my own pre-ban hi-caps for my own guns, handguns and rifles. I don't like the fact that my non-LEO buddies can't buy cheap hi-caps, or the fact that even though the LEO-only mags would be my property, I would have to give them up for no compensation when I retire. I just don't see what you or I possessing a piece of folded sheet metal in our own state has to do with interstate commerce, and I'd like to see the supreme court pound that whole 1994 slime bill up congress' collective backsides.
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 9:12:14 PM EDT
Sometimes the LEO markings are worn and very difficult to read on used mags. But, as a LEO, I buy them when possible.
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 9:19:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/3/2001 10:46:32 PM EDT
Maybe you LEO's could leave a pile of those LEOnly mags where we could steal some.LEGT Limited Edition Group Theft. We'd reimburse ya!
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 2:05:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2001 2:02:40 AM EDT by Sparky315]
I usually refrain from getting involved in the LEO-bashing threads 'cause it's often like wrestling with a pig. Too many people have already decided that all LEO's are corrupt jerks based on media reports of some high-profile incidents, or on a negative contact they have had personally. All I can say is that, in my experience, the majority of LEO's in this country are honest and hard-working, and genuinely care about the people they serve. Unfortunately, about the only press law enforcement gets anymore is about the bad apples, so what impression do people get? For those of you who disagree, don't bother to start a flame war over this post, I'm not interested in rolling around in the mud with anyone tonight.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 3:33:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sparky315: I usually refrain from getting involved in the LEO-bashing threads 'cause it's often like wrestling with a pig. Too many people have already decided that all LEO's are corrupt jerks based on media reports of some high-profile incidents, or on a negative contact they have had personally. All I can say is that, in my experience, the majority of LEO's in this country are honest and hard-working, and genuinely care about the people they serve. Unfortunately, about the only press law enforcement gets anymore is about the bad apples, so what impression do people get? For those of you who disagree, don't bother to start a flame war over this post, I'm not interested in rolling around in the mud with anyone tonight.
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Yes sir re! This is what has happened to the good honest americans who are involved as militia, and labeled as the enemy of the state! How long before the people label the LEO's as the enemy of the people, is the question? LEO mags just help the tyrant gain more control over America, but, when Americans rise to the occasion, LEO mags will be all the rage among those who wish to be free! I see good honest Americans as militia seizing LEO mags, these LEO mags will surely bring a premium in the patriot community as war trophies!!!!!! Just my $.02, because I can!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:52:15 AM EDT
I see them all the time around here and have gotten a few in the past in group buys by mistake but get rid of them as soon as possible. have even seen a few at shows. never have seen anyone busted for them, but why take a chance. hey if you get alot of them bury them with your shtf stuff by then who will care what they say. I have even seen them for a $1 to $3 at the garage sales or flea market. just take the pre-bans and leave the leo one's for someone braver. why take a chance when mags are not that expensive yet. the govt. must still have a ton of pre-bans around as when I look at the mags the gi's have that I work with they run around 80% pre-ban on the average that I see. sometimes all leo but most of the time all preban. just my thoughts only
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 6:24:54 AM EDT
I bought 3 LEO mags a while back: Cheap assed things with no spot welds on the bodies: My fault for not looking closer. It took a lot a slamming the mag in the well to get the stupid things to seat, so I went back to pre-bans. There's not that much of a price difference anyway: Not like G21 mags. Jay Arizona
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 6:40:07 AM EDT
I personally own no restricted magazines. All the agency mags that are issued are stamped restricted, and most of the M16 mags at my National Guard armory are restricted anymore.....interesting, given that the old magazines aren't wearing out , so they must be falling through the cracks somehow. Anyone who's in this job just to get access to standard cap magazines is here for the wrong reason.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 6:44:02 AM EDT
Just as a sidenote, LE agencies still have a tremendous number of preban mags in everyday use. They should really check into getting them all swaped out for restricted mags. That would put a lot of preban mags back into civilian hands. There are some wholesalers that were offering 2 restricted mags for one preban a while back. My agency, as small as it is, has around 50 prebans in use. I tried to talk them into doing the swap, but no luck. I am sure that larger dept's have thousands of mags out there that citizens would snap up in a second.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 7:26:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tcsd1236: Just as a sidenote, LE agencies still have a tremendous number of preban mags in everyday use. They should really check into getting them all swaped out for restricted mags. That would put a lot of preban mags back into civilian hands. There are some wholesalers that were offering 2 restricted mags for one preban a while back. My agency, as small as it is, has around 50 prebans in use. I tried to talk them into doing the swap, but no luck. I am sure that larger dept's have thousands of mags out there that citizens would snap up in a second.
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Good point. Anyone want to swap preban 32 rounder Colt 9mm mags for legal post bans? I think my bosses would go for two post bans for one preban. They are in fair condition. We have 15 available and will take care of all of the required paperwork.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 1:51:51 PM EDT
I'd start picking up some post ban mags if you're legally qualified to do so. Save your prebans; supply is limited and breakage can happen. Why use expensive, limited-supply mags when you can use a bunch of inexpensive, unlimited-supply ones? Mike
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 4:32:02 PM EDT
If you really want to "do us a favor" you and the rest of the LEO's could stop drying up the pre-ban mag market so the prices for the "less privileged" like myself would stay down.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 5:19:54 PM EDT
I buy them when I need mags and they are cheaper than the pre-bans. Here lately I've run across a few specials where the pre-ban mags were cheaper than the LEO mags. I go for the best price.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 5:29:22 PM EDT
The only LE mags I own are the one issued to me. All the rest are preban. I see alot of LE mags at the gun shows and nobody seems to care. I have not seen the magazine police around. I really think the only time it would matter was if you committed a crime using them. Then that would be the least of a persons worries. As a side note has anybody noticed that the early LE mags had printed not stamped LE only? I wonder what happens when you have one like that and you have it reblued! Not that I would know, of course.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 6:07:36 PM EDT
I see them at shows also but usually by only the folks that do not deal in large quanities of mags, just the ones thet have a few on their table. most all the leo mags I see are all stamped that way on the mag bodies. but the followers and base plates are not marked as such. I have seen some of the mag bodies just dated with out the warning and even some of the 98 and later ones made by general stamping oconomowoc wi. with the bad date and the warning stamped on the base plate. I'am sure they come in all flavors depending on who made them.
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 7:29:01 PM EDT
ive seen a few marked export only for sale but i wouldnt buy em with preban ar 15 mags being cheap well not really cheap compared to pre 94 but still cheap comapred to glock mags
Link Posted: 7/4/2001 7:30:26 PM EDT
I have exactly ONE restricted mag, a post ban 9mm BetaC. The only reason I have it, is there is no cuch thing as a preban version. ALL my other mags are preban.
Link Posted: 7/7/2001 7:05:19 PM EDT
Geez, we just can't make everybody happy! People bitch that it's not fair that LEO's can buy LEO mags for less than they can buy pre-bans, but when some of us tell you we pay for our mags just like you do, we get bitched at for drying up the supply! Make up your goddamned minds! Many of us buy pre-ban mags 'cause legally the only LEO mags we can keep upon retirement are ones 'gifted' to us by our employer, that were originally part of our employer's inventory. I know for damn sure my agency isn't going to gift me a thing, so I buy mags I can actually keep. Pardon me if that inconveniences you, but I don't feel like trying to find a few pre-bans when I retire in 17 years.
Link Posted: 7/7/2001 7:26:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: I have exactly ONE restricted mag, a post ban 9mm BetaC. The only reason I have it, is there is no cuch thing as a preban version. ALL my other mags are preban.
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So, you're admitting that you are in possession of an ILLEGAL POST BAN HI-CAPACITY magazine??? What's ATF's number?!??!?!?!
Link Posted: 7/7/2001 7:36:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sparky315: Geez, we just can't make everybody happy! People bitch that it's not fair that LEO's can buy LEO mags for less than they can buy pre-bans, but when some of us tell you we pay for our mags just like you do, we get bitched at for drying up the supply! Make up your goddamned minds! Many of us buy pre-ban mags 'cause legally the only LEO mags we can keep upon retirement are ones 'gifted' to us by our employer, that were originally part of our employer's inventory. I know for damn sure my agency isn't going to gift me a thing, so I buy mags I can actually keep. Pardon me if that inconveniences you, but I don't feel like trying to find a few pre-bans when I retire in 17 years.
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You're a police officer and you haven't figured out that no matter what you do you're gonna piss folks off? [:\] Ignore public opinion. Do what you know is right both legally and morally. If those happen to disagree, be moral over lawful. Mike
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 10:51:42 AM EDT
Thanks for the sermon, Mike- my Sunday wouldn't have been complete without it. Most cops realize within the first 6 months that no matter what you do, someone isn't going to like it. As far as ignoring public opinion, that is exactly what many people on the board bash law enforcement agencies for. They claim that LEO's are not sensitive enough to the public's wants, needs, and opinions- sometimes, rightfully so. Like it or not, policing in a free society cannot be done completely independent of public opinion, 'cause they're the ones that pay the bills and elect the legislators who make the laws we enforce. As soon as a cop tries to just do his job without regard to public opinion, he is going to find himself with his heels locked in the Chief's office because some citizen didn't like the way he did it. And you know what? In many departments, pissing of some citizen, even if it was unavoidable, is frequently seen as a worse offense than actually violating a policy. In the age of community policing, public opinion is far more important than actually getting results. "Perception over substance" is the battle cry of the modern police manager. Police officers and agencies should be sensitive to public perception, because the public is who we serve. However, when perception takes precedence over actually getting the job done, there is a problem, and the public ends up losing. Sorry, know it's kinda removed from the original topic, but the rookie lecture from Prebans kinda chapped my hide.
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 11:08:53 AM EDT
Since my AR-15 is not a duty weapon it would be illegal for me to get LEO mags, so I don't/can't. Of course since I have to go through the mag silliness with everybody else, I understand it... is a guy with 10-30rnd mags more dangerous than a guy with 30-10 round mags? I never thought about the mag law when my sidearm was an 8 rnd .45. Of course when I went to a higher cap. weapon I got familiar with the mag. laws quickly. I own 9 pistol mags., 3-13's, 4-10, and 2-9's. My employer has policies in place to vigorously enforce mag. laws. Every duty weapon that individual officer buy(dept doesn't issue sidearms)must be sent with 10 rnd mags. to the dept. The low-cap mags are put aside and the officer is issued "company" hi-caps that are signed out and marked "property of....." When officer's leave the dept they trade thre dept hi-caps in for 10-rounders. They even sent letters to recent retirees making sure they turned in hi-caps, pre-ban or not. Some of the guys that carried revolvers their whole career were not amused by the letters, and didn't understand "hi-cap".
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 3:47:38 PM EDT
man sounds like you leo's have got more restrictions on you than we do. it must be nice to be able to own some neat weapons but if you have to turn them in when you get out that sucks .
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 5:06:03 PM EDT
Bashing LEO's for buying pre-bans sounds like someone who has their own definition of what an American is. Personally, I don't believe anyone should buy the Restricted mags. A boycott on these mags would be fine with me.
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 5:11:18 PM EDT
Being new to the AR/M-16 ownership community, I don't follow some of what is being said. I Am active duty USMC, and can buy hi-cap Berreata and M-16 mags VERY cheap(Gov't cost). So If I buy these mags, Do I have get rid of them when i get out, or is it considered "gifted", since I bought theme while on active duty??
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 5:30:18 PM EDT
If the mags you bought while on active duty are marked as LEO/gov't mags only, you may not keep them when you leave the service. I imagine you would be okay if you went right into a law enforcement job where you carried a Beretta 92 and an AR15 on duty, and you agency said it was okay. I'm not sure if your purchase of those mags as a marine is kosher, since the Corps should be issuing you any mags you would be using for official purposes, and you can't use them for personal use. You might want to check the BATF's web site.
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 6:07:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tcsd1236: They should really check into getting them all swaped out for restricted mags. That would put a lot of preban mags back into civilian hands. There are some wholesalers that were offering 2 restricted mags for one preban a while back. My agency, as small as it is, has around 50 prebans in use. I tried to talk them into doing the swap, but no luck....
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Well considering that a pre-ban Glock 22 mag runs $90 retail and an LE mag for the same gun runs $15 retail, I'd say the dealer is screwing the department out of 4 mags!
Link Posted: 7/8/2001 6:30:34 PM EDT
he has to be make some kind of profit on it. as for the departments boycotting post 94 mags i dont wnat that that would be less for me to buy!
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 6:39:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sparky315: Thanks for the sermon, Mike- my Sunday wouldn't have been complete without it. Most cops realize within the first 6 months that no matter what you do, someone isn't going to like it. As far as ignoring public opinion, that is exactly what many people on the board bash law enforcement agencies for. They claim that LEO's are not sensitive enough to the public's wants, needs, and opinions- sometimes, rightfully so. Like it or not, policing in a free society cannot be done completely independent of public opinion, 'cause they're the ones that pay the bills and elect the legislators who make the laws we enforce. As soon as a cop tries to just do his job without regard to public opinion, he is going to find himself with his heels locked in the Chief's office because some citizen didn't like the way he did it. And you know what? In many departments, pissing of some citizen, even if it was unavoidable, is frequently seen as a worse offense than actually violating a policy. In the age of community policing, public opinion is far more important than actually getting results. "Perception over substance" is the battle cry of the modern police manager. Police officers and agencies should be sensitive to public perception, because the public is who we serve. However, when perception takes precedence over actually getting the job done, there is a problem, and the public ends up losing. Sorry, know it's kinda removed from the original topic, but the rookie lecture from Prebans kinda chapped my hide.
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Actually, I'm well aware of what goes on in terms of public outcry. And, I'm [b]very[/b] familiar with many of the ideas and attitudes that are present on this board. I'm probably wishing for something that'll never happen, but I'd like to see police free to do their jobs. I'm sick and tired of having them hung out to dry and at the mercy of citizen control boards. Oh, and I favor results and substance over popularity contests and percveption. No, I don't represent the public at large; it's just my own opinion. And, I do agree in some ways with your second paragraph. The public is important. However, your job (my guess is you are LEO) is to enforce laws and keep folks safe. You should be free to do your job. There are times that public opinion is wrong. There are also times that the law is wrong. In these cases, use your head. Should a man be jained and fined for B&E? Yes. Should a man be fined for having an extra bayo lug? I'm not so sure about that. Yeah, I'm a rookie. I know very little about police work. But, I know LEO's are handed horse-sh*t in terms of a check and often are required to do a thankless job. They often are stuck listening to advisory boards and having to enforce senseless and unenforcable laws created by morons in various legislative bodies. Hence, I stick by my original advice. [u]Ignore public opinion. Do what you know is right both legally and morally. If those happen to disagree, be moral over lawful.[/u] So long as the officer is a moral human being, he should be left to keep proper order in his or her community. Mike
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 11:33:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Captain Obvious:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: I have exactly ONE restricted mag, a post ban 9mm BetaC. The only reason I have it, is there is no cuch thing as a preban version. ALL my other mags are preban.
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So, you're admitting that you are in possession of an ILLEGAL POST BAN HI-CAPACITY magazine??? What's ATF's number?!??!?!?!
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Well genius, in MY case it ain't illegal. It was willed to me, so to speak. Hey I forgot, YOU CAN'T RESPOND. Oh and Jizz Ninja.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 2:27:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cyrax777: he has to be make some kind of profit on it. as for the departments boycotting post 94 mags i dont wnat that that would be less for me to buy!
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You're the first one with the balls to admit it. Any other time someone suggests a licensed dealer should make a profit on AR15.com people come out of the woodwork screaming "crucify him!" [;)]
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