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Posted: 6/26/2001 5:05:48 PM EDT
I just wrote this to see who would agree with me and see if someone went through what I feel after playing with various kinds of toys. I am not satisfied playing yet but.. Clinton made sure I would NOT be with the Ban .. and then there was that 1986 "ra ta ta" ban which made FA toys hard to play with... I have played with UZI's(due to its reputation), AR15/M16's (Because it's American! -I love my Country), M60, Augs (nice .223!), Galils (wow!) and in Pistols, Glocks (so light..feels good in hand), Sigs (Strong Puppy), 1911 types from PAra, Colts, Kimbers (Proven - Big is better), S&W's ( no comment - Don't blame ..it was my first gun), Rugers (same thing as S&W but it was my 2nd gun - I was in College- no extra money),etc.. But I find in the MGS, I love shooting the HK's like the MP5, G36, UMPs, HK21E and the HK Pistols like the M7's & USPs give me the greatest fun and appreciation in the design. Having said that .. I love Ar15s - Very versatile..can adapt to shoot many calibers .. much cheaper..I love the 1911 type of pistols (can not American without one).. I like the glocks .. But there's that aaah.. Those HK's are the Ultimate! .. Can not help it! Having said that .. I will still not let my NON-HK toys go .. So .. Don't flame me .. Share your view.. May U blast till U drop..etc... Thanks. NRA, GOA, etc..member..
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:12:12 PM EDT
I call it a three way draw. Germany, Italy, Switzerland.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:13:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2001 5:13:09 PM EDT by Rowgan]
Yes. I agree. (What, you expected more?) [>:/]
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:15:57 PM EDT
Owning an HK91 makes a strong case for agreement. I've had one since 1985. I have an AR, and I think it is a great rifle. But the HK, when it is fired, you know you have a high quality firearm. Remember, before the advent of AW's so many Mausers were made in and out of Germany. That action is still with us today.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:19:24 PM EDT
I agree with you Bilster! timeport .. Which Italian Toys make U happy ?
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:19:25 PM EDT
It's all subjective. Depends on what you're comfortable with, what you're good with, etc. For my money, HKs are one of the very best. But I'm not willing to say that one company, or country, makes the finest firearms availible. I will of course say they HKs are my personal favorite, FWIW.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:19:55 PM EDT
what about Belgian? -bricklayer
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:22:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:24:24 PM EDT
As bricklayer point out .. FAL's ? I have shot STG58 type .. if it is anything like it - I like.. But HK91 steal the show... Hkocher .. Does the Sixth Sense kinda point towards the HK..?
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:27:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:29:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By njogi: I agree with you Bilster! timeport .. Which Italian Toys make U happy ?
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!!!!Benelli!!!!
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:31:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:32:02 PM EDT
The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side.....
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 5:43:47 PM EDT
JA!
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 7:08:30 PM EDT
Well said Troy; What I would give to have a go with the m249 SAW. ~$6000-$10000 ? Being a Civilian I guess I will just have to run into a Class 3 that has one to exprience it.. Then there's the HK PDW and the Israeli Trevor... Count the Mini guns out due to the vast ammo requirement for us citizens and due to vapourization of target .. :) We need an Pro-Gun Organisation that can get all and have us rent to shoot them and generate fund to aquire new ... And I do have my full respect to Mr. Browning and Mr. Stoner .. Great men.. I guess I was looking more into quality over quantity thing.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 7:21:10 PM EDT
I think Troy has it right, my nicest made guns are a Sako, Sauer Drilling and a Belgium Browning. But my favorite are all American. Just depends on what you like/want. [beer]
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 7:41:28 PM EDT
I think it more appropriate to state that some of the best guns are from Germany. I have HK USPC-.40 and I have a Walther P99 .40......they are top notch weapons that show great ingenuity and superb engineering. I rate them amoung the best in the world but....................... I also have Springfield Armory custom .45 and Para-Ordnance .45 and Glocks along with Bushamster and Rock River Arms AR-15s, Remington rifles and shotguns as well as WWII production SA-M1 and Inland Carbine. I am only partial to quality craftsmanship and utter reliability. All the rest to me is fluff.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 7:53:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: John Mosses Browning wasn't German - sorry!
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Very good point
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 8:02:58 PM EDT
No mention of Ak's ? I love to shoot it .. But I guess in full -auto it is like chasing rabbits.. and the HAnd Stock gets real warm.. M16 is better .. But honors goes to MP5 I think..
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 1:12:10 AM EDT
I agree with njogi. I don't know that, say H&K's, are any better than, say Berettas. Its just that Germany has such a large number a different firms all making high quality firearms. Also, as good as U.S. firearms are, German firearms on average seem a little bit better (sometimes with fit and finish, sometimes with design, almost always with quality control). This, to my mind, puts them at the top of the list. I'm not certain of this, but my recollection is that the Swiss don't export firearms. Hence, SIG (Swiss) designs are made by Sauer in Germany and, not surprisingly, are called Sig-Sauer's. Nowadays of course, many SIGs are made, or at least assembled, here in the States.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 1:15:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 199: I agree with njogi. I don't know that, say H&K's, are any better than, say Berettas. Its just that Germany has such a large number a different firms all making high quality firearms. Also, as good as U.S. firearms are, German firearms on average seem a little bit better (sometimes with fit and finish, sometimes with design, almost always with quality control). This, to my mind, puts them at the top of the list. I'm not certain of this, but my recollection is that the Swiss don't export firearms. Hence, SIG (Swiss) designs are made by Sauer in Germany and, not surprisingly, are called Sig-Sauer's. Nowadays of course, many SIGs are made, or at least assembled, here in the States.
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I haven't bought one yet, but I'm pretty sure the Sig 210 is fully Swiss made.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 1:15:44 AM EDT
Germans are overweight and nervous. German rifles are overweight and nervous. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 1:43:21 AM EDT
good guns, but crappy over-engineered cars
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 2:26:56 AM EDT
Now that I think of it, Hammerli's are Swiss made so obviously my early statement about the Swiss not exporting firearms is incorrect. Perhaps I was thinking of military firearms - or perhaps I was just wrong!
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 3:04:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2001 3:05:40 AM EDT by McUZI]
Are we talking strictly Millitary'esque rifles, or guns in general? Sig-Neuhausen is unreal-Switzerland. Perazzi of Italy makes a $150,000 shotgun, and I want an Italian Valtro so bad I can taste it. Krieghoff of Germany is top drawer. They also have the insanely priced Korth and Koriphillia lines of pistols and revolvers. Any of the British Double-Gun dudes...Some of those fuckers are in Six Figures. Of course, there are a lot of guns by custom makers that don't ever really make the gun rags but are as fine guns as guns can be made. Mendoza of Mexico (I think they are nationalized now though..I'm not sure) Meneah of Portugal Tiago of Brazil Erik Kembarr of Norway (My grandfather used to have a Hi-Power ultra-perfected by Kembarr himself)
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 3:49:14 AM EDT
I guess that puts me in there. I'm first-generation Austrian/Belgian. Kurt/KKF
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 8:24:45 AM EDT
Let's not forget the German Luger...perhaps one of the most beautiful killing machines ever made. To look at one is like looking at a fine piece of art, for it is! Functions wonderfully, and was an ingenious design. The Germans have made extremely fine firearms over the decades. But let's not forget that JohnBrowning is perhaps the singlemost important figure in the history of world firearm design and invention.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 7:35:20 PM EDT
The Germans not only make good weapons, but they are so influential. The GPMG came from the MG-34. The AK came from the STG. They had one of the first best SMG's.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 7:51:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: John Mosses Browning wasn't German - sorry!
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But he still sold his designs to Belgian FN.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 8:08:35 PM EDT
German's, belgium, switzerland, italy.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 8:17:08 PM EDT
Mr. Stoner was an American and a former Marine. I think his design & the one done by Mr. Kalishnakov (sp) have had reached further than any German gun in the last 50 years. Having said that, the HK family of firearms are without a doubt equeals, just finacally out of the average American civi hands. Thanks Bill Clinton & maybe more importantly George Bush Sr.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 9:04:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 9:20:49 PM EDT
Mr. Stoner was born in the great state of Indiana and I think he later moved to Kalifornia as a kid.
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