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Posted: 6/26/2001 1:31:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 1:39:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2001 1:51:58 PM EDT by ParaPyroPig]
I can't argue any of that; you're right. I wish that we (cops) could be more proactive... outside of crime prevention programs and the like. Just keep putting responsible, well-armed people on the street - that'll help immensely. P3[pyro][^]
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 1:47:40 PM EDT
Nope. Probably 99.9% of the time there will be no cops around when a crime goes down. Like you said, are a reactionary force. I was once robbed at gunpoint when I worked part time at a drug store. I ended up untying myself and my coworker and ran out of the store. By that time my father had come to the store and seen what was happending. (late at night and I didn't come home at the normal time. He called the cops.) When I ran out there were a few police cars flying into the parking lot. Never did catch the robbers. Its a shame there are too many criminals. We need the police to become 'peace officers' again. Btw, I skip the LEO bashing posts.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 1:48:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 1:53:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 1:58:39 PM EDT
Not quite. Police generally have no or limited "civil liability" for failing to protect the public. Generally. One of the reasons for the zero-tolerance domestic violence laws and policies in place in most of the country were a couple of court cases that showed that the police did have a responsibility to take reasonable steps to protect the public. The arguments that say that the police have no duty to protect people are a sham. However, police do have very limited civil liability for failing to protect. If your store gets robbed, you most likely can't sue the police for failing to prevent it. The big "but" in this is that if the police should have reasonably known that the the robbery was going to happen and could have reasonably prevented it, they may be civilly and criminally liable. Police are primarily reactive. They do "save" a significant number of people by showing up at incidents or by stopping persons before they commit crimes. Every burglar, robber and thief that does get locked up is one fewer that is out there to commit crimes, and you should give law enforcement credit for that. BTW, my own personal opinion is that armed citizens who take some personal responsibilty are a significant deterent to crime, and stop a lot of it from occurring. My county has a very high rate of gun ownership, the highest per capita concealed handgun license rate, and the lowest crime rate. I am sure that all of those factors are related. I just wish that more of our citizens would take that personal responsibility. I am surprised that some of our "repeat customers" haven't managed to get capped by an armed homeowner. For that matter, in a lot of the country, the average homeowner has a lot fewer restrictions on the kind of force they can use to protect their home, property and family than a law enforcement officer coming to their aid does.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 2:07:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 2:12:51 PM EDT
You paint all LE as a feckless, too little, too late entity. The nature of crimes you talk about are crimes that the police can only have the type of response you cite. Of course LE can't be all places at all times. That would be an occupying force and would probably earn more disdain from you(but you'd be safer, wouldn't you?) And no one want to be consantly watched and monitored. You are correct that a SEGMENT of LE is reactionary. That would be the radio cars that are slaves to 911. But there is also a LARGE segment of LE that is preventative. Community policing, Problem Oriented Policing, and community outreach programs have yielded a dramatic lowering of the incidence of the crimes you talk about. There are crime statisticians the track, observe and develop crime patterns. There are investgative personnel that would follow up on a crime and possibly arrest the perp, PREVENTING said perp from doing it again(saving someone else an ass whipping.) So to answer your cop bashing main gripe.... PLENTY OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAVED FROM AN ASS WHIPPING OR ROBBERY 'CUZ IT JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 2:19:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 2:19:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 2:21:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 2:33:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 2:43:23 PM EDT
I had to call the cops because a pair of pit bulls escaped from someones yard and were roaming our street. They actually chased me into my house (just about shit myself) and they were lucky I only owned an air pistol at the time. Anyway, I was pissed because they were digging up my front lawn so I went out to my landing (upstairs, and ready to jump back inside) with the air pistol pumped up to 10 to try and hit one in the butt (figured it might get them out of my yard!). At that point the owner's 25 mexican kids showed up and started yelling (which just got the dogs more agitated) and I lowered my pistol. Finally some 15 or 16 year-old got the dogs and took them away. I was still shaking. Then papa illegal pulls up in front of my house, starts yelling about how I made his little girl cry and that he was going to get me. Naturally I called the cops, which was a good thing cause he did too! Long and short the cops came, I assured them (contrary to what the little bambinos said) that I had NOT pointed the gun at the kids, only at the dog on my steps, macho daddy wanted me charged with brandishing. The cops pointed out to him that he was lucky they were not arresting him and that I had not been bitten, because I would have sued his poor ass all the way back to Tijuana. I like cops, what was the question? Oh yeah, next time I get chased on my own lawn by a pit bull a doggy's going to heaven, courtesy of Mr Mossberg. Now I have real guns.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 2:51:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 3:01:16 PM EDT
Do cops "save" anyone by locking up career criminals early in their career thereby limiting the number of victims?
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 3:14:07 PM EDT
i am a civvie who thinks that LEO's have a tough job to do. i also believe that most do their jobs with well intentions. with that said, LEO's have saved me from: speeding. that's about it. they have not saved me from: getting my head split open by thugs vandalism to my property false arrest NOT A BASH !!! just my personal experience, as requested. to try and answer the question of why has the public turned its backs on Police? perhaps some people out there have fallen prey to media's brainwashing. as Striker said, good news doesn't sell. today's liberals will have you believe that you are not responsible for your own safety, that you are not responsible for much of anything at all. just look all the frivolous lawsuits out there, and how the media rushes in to positively re-enforce those poor, hapless, innocent victems of HOT COFFEE, and their supporters and enablers. i didn't EXPECT LEO's to be there to save me from the violence, a rem 870 did my talking, the only thing i EXPECTED of LEO's was to have the balls to go into the crack-filled streets from which they came, nab the SOB's and bring them to justice...which they did quickly.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 3:20:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 3:35:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 7: We need the police to become 'peace officers' again.
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[b]AMEN Brother!![/b]
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 3:37:03 PM EDT
About 6 years ago I was living alone in New Jersey ( not any more ). I came home one night after work and pulled in my apartment complex. My apartment was situated as such that I could see all the lights were off. I went to unlock the door and discovered the deadbolt was locked along with the normal lock. I never locked the deadbolt but my lease was almost up and thought that my Landlord had came by to check the place out. I still had an uneasy feeling. I finally unlocked it, walked in, and turned the living room lights on. Everything was there, stereo, tv, VCR, etc.. I started to relax a little bit but noticed my cat was not around to greet me, which he usually did. I walked throught the hallway to my bedroom to get undressed. I passed by the bathroom, which had it's door shut and now the lights were ON. At this point I turned the lights on in my bedroom and saw it was ransacked. My gun locker was open and my Buck hunting knife was not there, but the guns were! I grabbed my Ruger P89, inserted a full magazine, and loaded the weapon. I can not convey to you all the thoughts and emotions going through my mind at this time. It was a mixture of fear, anger and outrage. I began to see red. All I knew was that some motherfucker was in my bathroom with my knife. After I loaded the weapon, I went to the bathroom and kicked the door of it's hinges and was prepared to fire if he made any move resembling a threat. He had popped the window out and escaped outside before I even saw him. All this occurred in a matter of 15 seconds or so. Oh, sorry, back to the point. I called 911 and they showed up 10 minutes later. I was winter and there were clear tracks he had left in the snow. 3 cops all together showed up, but not one followed the tracks. One cop was really cool, one was a dick and almost accussed me of staging the whole thing, and one just stuck to the facts. They raised a few eyebrows when they saw my collection of guns and stash of ammo, but did not say anything. I don't expect teh police to be there to save me but goddamn it, there were fresh tracks right there to be followed and they did not do anything about it.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 3:42:52 PM EDT
I was never saved by LEO's.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 3:48:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The Beer Slayer: Sherman I think if you will actually read my post i acknowledged that fact. My question is to the members here. I know the average schmuck on the street relies on the PD for everything. I and several folks here don't. Also i believe most of the LEO i refer to here seem to be patrol officers. At least they all seem to have the same I AM YOUR SAVIOR attitude. I will be the first to admit there are a lot of GREAT LEO's out there. Hell i used to work with many of them. It's just the attitude that is ruining their reps.
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With things being as they are these days, the only LEOs that I will even consider calling "great" are those who will police their own ranks and help weed out those who do not cut the mustard. I don't ever see any movement by the rank and file to clean out the crap heads. Thems that just look the other way, knowing that some of their comrades are better suited to Gestapo duty, are mediocre at best, and probably much worse than mediocre. It turns into a case of guilt by association. By not condemning the bad apples, they are defending them by deafault.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 3:52:52 PM EDT
I've had two cars stolen from me, cops knew about it both times before I did. Not their responsibility to keep track of my things when I didn't properly secure them, the first time the car was fine and he waited with it for 2 hours or so while I got a ride to go get it. no such luck the 2nd time it was wrecked and burned. that and getting arrested when I was a kid (for something a lot less than he could have arrested me for btw) and a few speeding tickets that were EARNED DAMNIT! are the only dealings I've had with the police. I'm pretty pro-cop. But I'm more for the citizen when cops start getting delusional and thinking they're Airborne Rangers blousing their boots and taking no prisoners kill em all, let god sort em out. Like the cops that we have been discussing in here. Yep thats when I fully support the citizen getting delusional imagining himself wearing a plaid shirt and a big stupid cap with ear-flaps and the ninja-police start looking like a 200 lb whitetail buck on opening day.
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