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Posted: 6/24/2001 10:24:03 AM EDT
I had a conversation this weekend w/ a man that, not knowing he was a LEO, is in the process of opening up a range. I was wearing a HK-"no compromise" shirt when I walked in and he makes a comment like .." a HK fan huh" I answer "yeah there nice guns..how about you"...he then says "yea..got a few"...me " what models"....him " G3, MP40,..and some other model not familiar to me" Now I am thinking this guys got a class 3 and has good taste and deep pockets...so I ask "really how did you come by those nice toys..him" I'm the ***** county SWAT coordinator and armorer..." Then I say OHHHH you mean those are your issued arms..." He then says "yea..but they might as well be mine..we keep them w/ us all the time" ...me" yeah I guess so".. The thing that irked me is that I'm a class 3 owner and this guys not..which means I have been at least put under the microscope as much as if not more than he has...( I also have had a FBI background check done on me for a Treasury Dept. (ya,I know,I know) job ) It was the WAY he said it...like ha ha "I've got these and you don't" kind of attitude. Fer ChirstSakes he doesn't even Own them...MY TAX money went to buy them!!!!!! Al least I know my place in the order of things. Just a Joe Citizen. ***Disclaimer*** This was not for "cop bashing" purposes but a rant about people that assume an aire of superiority. I hate that shit..
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 10:27:18 AM EDT
What exactly do you go through to get a class 3 license? How much does it cost?? Yeah I know a bunch of cops that do that. A local cop has several rifles that he "shows" off like we can't get them. Mikie
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 10:31:11 AM EDT
Well, become a cop, get on the SWAT team, and you'll have all the toys you want.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 10:35:54 AM EDT
Kassnar, sounds like a bad first impression. I bet in time, you can become good friends. Heck, don't you want to try out some of his "issued weapons"? OSA
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 11:04:31 AM EDT
The attitude certainly would be unlikeable, though I can see how one could almost unknowingly assume it. However, just count your blessings if you've got a Class 3 license! Remember: There are lots more of us who live in states that don't permit civilian ownership, period. Then there are the places that don't even want us to have any military-look black guns in the first place! [>Q]
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 11:16:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 1:01:01 PM EDT
Well, the LEO's I have talked to have said that their department has to go through the same crap that anyone else does to get class 3 weaponry. The only difference is that they can get new stuff instead of pre 1986 stuff.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 1:02:03 PM EDT
sf46, No offence,but to do that would be financially detremental to myself. I see no correlation in your answer. My post stated I'm class 3, nowhere did I say I only have one or just a few toys. I don't know many LEO's that can afford what I own. I respect the work LEO's have to do, but would have no desire to do it. My post was about attitudes and misconceptions. good day
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 1:23:21 PM EDT
You don't have to have a "license" to own Class 3 items. Just be eligable by state law and pay the $200 transfer tax. You need to have a Class 2 or 3 license (manufacturer or dealer) and pay the SOT (Special Occupational Tax) if you want to be a dealer in the good stuff. Kassnar, I see your point--C 3 stuff is very expensive, and the guy that gets it for $1000 for his MP-5 or $600 for his M-16 and "assumes" that it is the same as his because it is issued to him is in for a rude awakening when he quits his job and tries to take them home with him. However, I would make the best of it. It is a good way to try out some new stuff, and (if you have had problems before with CLEO sign-off) getting a pipeline into the department (it never hurts to know someone who may be able to take the Form 4 to the CLEO and say "he's a good guy, go ahead and sign it"). Since you are in OK--any of your stuff from Curtis? AFARR
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 2:17:34 PM EDT
Keep in mind job related Perks are something everyone is proud of. I know I was happy to "have" a company car, computer, cell phone (when they were fairly rare), etc.... Basically, job perks say "I make money and get a toy". For him, maybe it's "I may not make big bucks, but I do get nice toys as a perk". Irritating, but understandable.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 2:54:18 PM EDT
SWAT types "armorers" "Police "Trainers" almost always have an arrogant "I know more than you", I'm more of a cop than you" attitude. Many depts issue C3 weapons to members of their special units. Many of these are on call 24/7 and take them home.They must keep C3 paperwork with the weapon. Many depts including my own do not issue these weapons and only sign them out for duty use. Incidentally I know some C3 owners. the background check is nothing compared to the process a person goes through to become a peace officer. Did you have a psychological exam?, a complete medical exam?, a written exam?, a physical agility test?, a polygraph?, a board interview along with the FBI back ground check?. Not to mention the departmental requirements to get into the special units. Don't worry he doesn't own them even if he acts like he does. Maybe it makes him feel like a bigshot to act like he does. The department owns them. Yes you helped pay for them. I'm sure they are grateful. They need them. Since I don't know how thick your skin is I will say there is no flame intended by any of my remarks.
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 8:46:25 PM EDT
Who cares? Yeah, they get to play with some neat toys and might even get to take them home, but its not the same thing. While the guns they have and the guns you have may look identical they aren't. Yours are transferable and worth 10 times what theirs are. If you find a good deal on a humvee you can sell one of your guns and buy it, they could only wish. They may think that those guns are their personal property, but they aren't. Hell, one SWD M11 that I have in my safe is worth as much as one of their MP5s. You can do whatever you want with your guns, they can't. See if he can take the sear out of one of his H&Ks and put it in a new gun. Issued weapons are fun, but transferables are forever. Michael
Link Posted: 6/24/2001 11:02:54 PM EDT
You got no clue what sort of checks an LEO goes through to get on the squad. It's right in there with getting a Top Secret security clearance. Job perks are just some of the things that go along with some of the cool jobs. Like the pilots who get to fly the neat planes and don't own them. Just to balance stuff out . . . I had two LEO's about half my age shooting handguns next to me at the range -- Glock, Smith & Wesson. I hauled out my S&W Mod 19, and one commented, "I used to have one of those, nice gun." Then I put six shots, double action, rapid fire into a six inch circle at 7 yds. Their comment was, "Jeez! Where'd you learn to shoot like that!!!" I just smiled, "When you guys are riding around in your squad car . . . I'm out here shooting." NOW who has the perks??? [-!-!-]
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 7:18:17 AM EDT
[b] They must keep C3 paperwork with the weapon. [/b] I am issued two FA weapons by my employer, and I don't have to keep any paperwork with them. Its not anything that has every come up. We often shoot a local private ranges (ammo and fees provided by the Department) because we do not have a range ( a long story). I have been asked for the Class 3 paperwork on the weapons by range, but I always just say that they are Department weapons and I show my badge and ID; no problems. I asked an ATF agent about how to determine a legally owned Class 3 weapon and he said that while there is no requirement to do so, a Class 3 owner should keep a copy of their papers with the weapon if they are transporting it to avoid problems. Privately-owned Class 3 is way out of my price range, so if any board members have better information, I wouldn't mind hearing about it. It does sound like this guy came off a little superior. I look at shooting on these private ranges as a good opportunity to do a little PR work; the gun owners on the ranges are generally very supportive of Law Enforcement. I hand out business cards and show off my issued "toys." I also let them know that most LE (at least in my area) are supportive of gun owners (we are all pretty major gun owners ourselves). They like the fact that we are friendly and get a lot of training. They are usually jealous of the fact that I am getting paid to shoot and have issued MGs, but hey, it is a trade off for the fact that they all probably make more money than I do... My Department also only wants us to shoot duty ammo. This gets us some strange looks as we launch off several hundred rounds of $25 a box ammo at the range. When asked, I always respond "Our Department only wants us to shoot the expensive stuff through our expensive weapons, and they give us as much as we can shoot, those bastards."
Link Posted: 6/25/2001 7:24:32 AM EDT
natez - I like your attitude. We need more LEO's like you.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 7:33:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kassnar: sf46, No offence,but to do that would be financially detremental to myself. I see no correlation in your answer. My post stated I'm class 3, nowhere did I say I only have one or just a few toys. I don't know many LEO's that can afford what I own. I respect the work LEO's have to do, but would have no desire to do it. My post was about attitudes and misconceptions. good day
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I was merely trying to point out that in some areas getting to play with cool toys for free is as easy as asking the Sheriff for a reserve commision.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 8:48:33 AM EDT
what bugs me the most is when your in some restrictive state like Kalifornia and at a informel match and the damn arragunt LEO pulls out a a C3 in this case a usas 12 and then uses ot in the match how unfair is that i cant use one but he could
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 9:10:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 9:48:08 AM EDT
GS, I believe the officer was referring to this...MP5/40 ("MP-40") Submachine Guns (Heckler & Koch USA) Heckler & Koch MP5 (Unofficial H&K Home Page) Note - This firearm is sometimes referred to as the MP-40. This is not a proper designation. The MP-40 is actually a WWII era German submachine gun of completely different lineage. MP5/40A2 Select-fire .40 S&W submachine gun, fixed stock MP5/40A3 Select-fire .40 S&W submachine gun, retractable stock
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 10:00:01 AM EDT
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