Well, I just paid $13000 for an 1987 ex-mil' Humvee with 11k miles on it. It's the Comm's truck version. No major damage. Street legal and registered. Man there's nothing like driving the freeways in a Humvee. People move aside, or would if I could go faster than 65Mph!  

I just can't find any web sites on mil' to street conversions. Parts, I need parts. Ideas?

What parts are you looking for?

Congratulations on an awesome purchase! I keep saying that I wouldn't own a civvie model with all that crap on it, but I'm hoping to get a military surplus one someday too.

I've worked on quite a few of the civilian "Hummers", and frankly I think they're put together like sh!7. Not the mechanical parts, but the interior and the inside electrical. These vehicles were meant to be bare-bones mules, not leather-bound entertainment systems for soccer moms.
My $.02.

Trade it in for a Unimog! [:D]

[url]http://www.humvee.net[/url]

maybe the gearing needs to be adjusted for street use.

You probably don't want to mess with the gearing.  Those things weigh so much, they need the low gears to get going.  Also, since the gearing is done at each hub, it's not as simple nor as cheap as just swapping diff gears.  At the price you paid for it (about half of what a street legal surplus one goes for) you can afford some work on it to make it a little more streetable.  

One place to look is the transmission.  Allison (GM) probably makes a tranny that would have a few more gears in it that will bolt right up.  Another possibility is to check out the Auxillery transmissions, like a Gear Vendor overdrive, etc.  There may be a way to hook up one of those.  That would give you the original gearing for off road, but also give you a 20-30% gear change for highway once you're moving.

With the vehicle weight, engine, transmission combination in the humvee, there's not much good you're going to do with getting it to go faster on regular city streets.  It's all a matter of the power curve on that engine trying to move that weight.  You need to change one of these three things to cahnge the performance.

The easiest and cheapest change would be in the engine.  Go to a 6.5 if it has a 6.2.  Add a turbo to it.  There's all sorts of things you can change that would give you more power, increasing your power-to-weight ratio.  You're still going to be howling down the freeway.

Just look at what your driving conditions and match them up to whatever you can do.  If it's city driving, more power will be better than different gear ratios.  If it's highway, then gearing's going to be more important.

I would not want to sacrifice any of the low gears just to get around town faster.  That thing was made for off-road and that's where it should be playing most of the time.  Also you want to go slow enough that everyone gets a good look at it.  After all, there's nothing wrong with showing off.

Ross

where'd you get it for such a deal?

For parts, try:
Real 4 WD
[url]www.real4WD.com[/url]

For complete vehicles:
Schott Enterprises
839 Main St
Lewiston, ME  04240
(207)786-2822
(no website)

There are many more, but there are several things to remember.  Most military Humvees are not going to be street legal.  The contractor (AM General) pressured the military into not selling Humvees with street legal titles so there wouldn't be competition for their civillian Hummer.  Govt competition with private industry and all, the military does not release Humvees that are capable of titling on the street.  There are some that got out early that are legal, and there are a set of a few later year models that the USMC somehow wrangled a deal trading them to some other contractor who legally obtained the rights to sell them with street titles as part of the deal.  There are street legal Mil-spec ones out there, but there's alot of ones that have forged titles and paperwork, and even a couple that have been stolen and sold with forged paper.  It's gets as complicated as the pre/post-ban thing.

Average price for a running, off-road only humvee is $20,000 give or take a few thousand.  Non-running with bad motors are about $13,000.  Most street legal running ones go for $30,000+.  You did get a great deal.  

Ross

What is a "street legal vehicle"?  As long as it fits on a street, what is the problem?

I got this beast by looking at recycler.com and there it was for sale. Got it from a kid who was moving out of state and needed cash pronto.

High points: Ten .223 bullet holes in floor (Put there to let water/sand drain out faster). 65MPH speedo. Bumpers of The Gods. Climbing up on the tire to check the oil. Bullet proof windshield. Intimidation!

Low points: 15MPG highway. $1000 doors. $9000 hard top. Previous owner painted over the camo with flat black because he kept getting stopped by the CHP for driving an "Army Truck". Hot floor. No glove box to put registration in. No winch, yet!

It's a cool toy indeed. Wish I had enough of them to sell to all of you.    

Check out Military Vehicle Magazine.  I have been receiving it for a few years now and it is well worth it.  

[url]members.aol.com/mvehicle/home.htm[/url]

I do not own a HUMVEE but do do Jeeps.

[img]www.geocities.com/monsonjeep/1946_2A.jpg[/img]

There are [b]alot[/b] of things you can do to a humvee to make it more appropriate for civilian use.  We just removed the diesel from a brand new one & replaced it w/ a likewise brand new 502ci Bow Tie engine, but since it was bought as a civilian model it already had the Allison geared for highway use.  Bolted right up.  When I go back over there later this week, I'll try to get some of his Hummer aftermarket literature & see if I can get you some more info.  A powertrain mod is about the only thing I'd change on yours right off, but keep in mind it'll cost you about half of what you already have in it.  You can do cosmetic/aesthetic stuff later.

When vehicles are sold by the military they come with documentation required to obtain a title and prove ownership.  Except for certain Humvees, the military will not provide you with this documentation.  They'll provide you with documentation that you bought the unit as scrap, but without the forms that you need to be able to register the vehicle.  You can't register the vehicle, nor get tags (license plates) for it.  

They do this for various reasons with different vehicles.  Some military vehicles don't meet DOT safety regs, some don't meet EPA regs, some are to prevent the government from competing with the private sector.  In the Humvee's case, AM General put pressure on the govt to not sell the vehicles as street legal, so they wouldn't have to compete with cheaper surplus Humvees to sell their civillian Hummer on the market.  By law the government is prevented from directly competing with civillian companies, so they had to abide by the wishes of the contractor.

You can drive it off road all day and night, but take it on a street and you're breaking the law.  That's what's refered to as street legal.  Legal to drive on a street.  Just because a vehicle can fit on a street does not make it street legal.  

Ross

from what hear, you dont wanna "F" around with the gears too much, accept the 65 mph speed limit. and it you upped the gears you wouldnt have all that torque. i saw one on tv climb its front end up near vertical wall. just leave it the baddass 4WD it is.

My wife came home one day last year and said she really wanted a hummer.....I said "me too".

El Kabong,
Put a propane injection system on it.  It's like putting nitrous oxide on a gasoline engine.  No real modifications, the propane is injected in front of the intake manifold.  I have a dealer that has a Ford 1 ton, powerstroke diesel that has 306 hp and will do 0-60mph in 8.3 seconds.  Now it gets 13 mpg pulling a trailer.  The hp was tested on a dino at their shop.  They inject 1 gallon of propane per 6 gallons of diesel.  The biggest modification was changing the muffler from a 3" to a 4".  I think the hummer already comes with a 4"on it.

Sure it is - they have differentials, too. It's an AMC Model 20 rearend (same as in 76-86 CJ7s) and is actually pretty strong, with its 8.875" diameter ring gear. Standard ring & pinion ratio for a humvee is 2.73:1, which when multiplied by the 1.92:1 geared hub (which you don't have to touch in order to change R&P gears) at each corner comes out to a 5.24:1 final drive ratio. I'm not sure if there are taller (numerically lower) gearsets available for the AMC 20, but you can effectively raise your gearing by increasing tire size. A set of 38" tires instead of the 36" it most likely came with will net you approximately 5% lower RPM for a given road speed. Going from 2000 to 1900RPM at 50mph (just a guess) may not seem like much of a difference, but it'll help.


 



Your best automatic overdrive bet for handing the 6.2's power is a Jet TH700. It's basically a 700R4 4-speed automatic, beefed way up for strength. The later 700R4s weren't bad, either, with their Corvette servos and 10-vane pumps. Have the TCCC (Torque Converter Clutch Control) modified to work off hydraulic pressure rather than electrical signals and you'l be good to go in all but the most extreme wheelin'. Plus, the more reliable torque converter lockup will drastically lower transmission fluid temps due to less slippage, and result in longer life for your transmission.




This is a great idea, but the $2500 or so cost is often a problem - and that's just for the GV unit itself, and doesn't include the cost of having to cut and lengthen your driveshafts, shift linkages or cables, etc. Still, it gives you twice as many forward and reverse gears which allows you to more easily keep your engine in its powerband.





An engine swap will net little to nothing in the way of road speed. After all, an engine turning 2000rpm is going to move a vehicle with a 5.24:1 final drive ratio in top gear high range at one speed and one speed only, regardless of displacement (obviously I'm not taking into consideration that a smaller engine might not make enough power to move a heavy vehicle at the speed its RPM and gearing dictate it should be moving.) Same goes with turbocharging, it increases horsepower and torque but your transmission, transfer case, and axle gearing determines how fast you go, not HP or torque (see above.)

Now, what would MY dream humvee have? 97-up 6.5L turbodiesel with BD exhaust brake and 4" exhaust (muffler shell only, the turbo quiets it down just fine), fitted with high-output mechanical injector pump, high-flow marine injectors, 18:1 Peninsular Diesel pistons, and sporting the stock 130gpm water pump, dual thermostat system, and oil spray piston coolers. I'd love a manual transmission but the shifter knob on any top-loader truck tranny would almost hit the roof due to how high in the chassis the tranny mounts, so I'd go with a TH400 and Ross's Gear Vendors unit. Behind that I'd have an NP205 transfer case for the sheer strength, along with the range box from an NP203 for double the gear reduction (the 205's low range is 1.96:1 and the 203's is 2:1, for a 3.92:1 low range ratio.) Detroit or ARB lockers in the pumpkins, and those cheesy spindles in the geared hubs would SOMEHOW be modified to a ful-floating configuration. Oh, and the lower ball joints would have grease fittings - I've never understood why the uppers did but the lowers, which bear most of the vehicle's weight, couldn't be lubed!


By the way, don't let the low mileage fool you - it [b]may[/b] have had the odometer replaced. also, the army has been running JP8 instead of diesel fuel for some time now, and JP8 doesn't have the lubricity of diesel. The result? Premature wear of the injector pump causing early failure (often as low as 40K miles.) Convert the glow plug system over to the 84 and up system instead of the trouble-prone military system, or even just rig up a manual pushbutton switch running through a heavy-duty relay. I'm not sure of the availability of the military fuel filter elements, either, but I imagine it's something that Donaldson makes.

Too bad it dont have a REAL diesel engine in it, like the 5.9 Cummins.
Now you'd be talking...

What makes the Cumapart a REAL diesel engine, and the 6.2L/6.5L a "not real" diesel engine? And please don't start in on the old "it was converted from a gas engine" line because that's not true (the 6.2L was designed and orignally built from the gorund up as a diesel by GM's Detroit Diesel division.) Now, the Navistar 6.9L, and 7.3L WERE converted International Harvester gas engines!

How much for a main battle tank?

You just pissed away $13,000 on a 1987 humvee with 11,000 miles on it? You mean 111,000 miles, maybe 211,000 miles, don't you?

Bullet holes in the Floor?

Haw, haw....Oh man!

I can't believe it!

That kid that sold it to you was either pretty sharp or pretty lucky when you answered that ad!

Hey, I got a Bridge in San Francisco I'd like to sell you, Cheap! Only $13,000....haw, haw!

Got some time to work on the beast today. Lots of sand everywhere. Very small transfer case leak found. Looks like the gasket. Took the time to clean all the major electrical connections to the battery and starter. This solved my one big problem, hard starting. Now I have to replace the volt meter, oil pan, convoy light and wiper arms and I'll be finished with the mechanical stuff. Cosmetic is a whole different ballpark. Choices to make! I'd love a slantback top for it but they go for big money even used. Guess I'll just paint it camo and keep looking for a slant top on extreme sale somewhere.

Bowser: I can sell it for twice what I paid no problem. No suckers here.

Does it have the 24 volt electrical system?

Oh yes. 24 big volts. Going to have to find a big resistor to put in with that Blaupunt.(Joke!)

Spent today finding and fixing several small fluid leaks underneath. Previous owner didn't do much upkeep. Transfer case was dry. ATF fluid leaked out from a very lose hose. No biggie. I do like being able to turn on my side and not bump my shoulder on underside above me.  

If anyone has the plates that go around the shift handles and the Start-Wait-Run knob let me know. Mine are worn blank. Also the top of the air intake stack. That chrome cover. Can't find anything to replace it.

Diesel experts on here: Engine runs very well but...requires a small dose of "Starting Fluid"
be spritzed down the intake before it will start, but only when stone cold. When even a bit warm it zooms to life with hardly a crank.
I'm a V8 gas guy myself so after checking everything I can think of I ask you all for a hint. Please.

And to make this thread a gun related one I am looking for a plastic, lifesize M60 to put on top. I can hear the CHP now: "Driver, with your right hand throw the keys from the vehicle and DO NOT approach the machine gun." Me "But I don't have any keys" CHP "??"

Why wont it go faster than 65MPH?

Forget the 60, opt for the T.O.W. launcher and say goodbye to your traffic problems!

Starting Fluid is like cocaine to a diesel engine

Your glow plugs or glow plug system are shot. The humvee uses a very different glow plug system than the same engines used in Chevy/GMC trucks do, but can be retrofitted with the more reliable civilian system. Your humvee has glow plugs, a temperature sensor (in the coolant crossover pipe at the front of the engine), and a Protective Control Box - it's under the "dash" and has a connector poking through next to the windshield washer bottle. I'd recommend replacing the entire glow plug system with the components from an '84 or later Chevy 6.2L, or if you'd rather make it simpler just use a pushbutton switch and heavy-duty relay. E-mail me for more info.

My Hummer is an 87 with a three speed tranny. The truck will only do 65MPH. Even the speedo only goes up to 60.

1GunRunner: Coked up Hummer, huh? Can I get it to kick the habit? How?

NH2112: Thanks a lot for the info. I narrowed it down to the G-plugs because it CANT BE ANYTHING ELSE! Do I sound tired? I am. I was so frustrated today I almost beat my head on the air cleaner. Tomorrow the plugs get changed.
If I have to use the starting fluid after that I'll just explode.

You should always replace the temp sensor at the same time you replace glow plugs. I think it's the same part as in the 82-83 Chevy/GMC diesel trucks, but I'm not 100% sure.

btt

Listen to NH112 as far as the glow plug system goes.  His recommendation on the heavy duty relay is the way I'd go.  It give you manual control over the system.  It's not as convenient as turning on the key and waiting for the light to go off, but I'd rather be the one deciding things like this.  I had a diesel Isuzu Trooper which needed starting fluid to get started after the glow plugs burnt out.  I put new ones in right away because in that engine starting fluid is not a great idea.  

Ross

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=592756369&r=0&t=0

HERE'S A COMPLETE SET OF 4 MILITARY ISSUE HUMMER RIMS WITH RUN FLATS FOR SALE ON EBAY.
NO BIDS YET AS OF NOON TODAY...

Found some history on my Humvee that I thought the group might enjoy. It was in the Gulf and was sent home to Camp Pendalton in CA. The Marines "traded" 700 used Humvee's to a defense contractor for some services. The contractor then decided to sell the Humvee's at auction. AM General had a s*** hemorage when they heard about it. They went to Federal Court to get an injunction. The court ruled against AMG stating that the contract between the US Gov' and AMG only said that Mil' Humvee's couldn't be *sold* to the public but nothing about them being traded away and that what the auction guys did with them was none of the Gov's bees wax. Case dismissed. AMG told all their dealers NOT to support the ex-mil' Humvees in any way. That was a few years ago. No Army, Marine or Navy Trucks have been released since. Old ones have been cut and crushed as per AMG's contract. Some few USCG and Guard Humvee's have been "traded" out but not a lot, and not in good shape.
That's the used Humvee story as I heard it in a nutshell. Thanks all for the advice. I'm off to look for metal doors, cheap tires and that neat radio/dash shelf.

MD

check it out right first off take it from me hmmwv arent all that theres lots of shit out there better.  like a landrover defender or just go with what 3rd world armies seem to favor the 4wd mazda pickup.  we drive hmmwvs on the street all the time i thought they were all street legal if its not the mil has to put it on a trailer to take it off post.  ie track vehicles and the like.  and if its only going 65 something might be wrong with it.  ours usually went faster than that with out taking to the shop and telling the mechanic to take off the drive right.  its not my money but i woudnt waste it on a hmmwv

If you can find one, they'll run about $80k-100k.  I've heard rumours that BRP is bringing in T-34's and T-72's starting at $90k each.  Of course, demilled (no working guns) and definitely not street legal, but who's going to pull over the guy out for a spin in a T-72 to tell him that?

"Umm...license and...umm...registration sir...please?"

[img]legion.wplus.net/guide/army/ta/t72-5.jpg[/img]

Garand_Shooter: Yah, I suspected as much. The paperwork looks legit. It's only when you see the Truck that you start to wonder. Screwdriver time.