Que?

could you explain to me your post?  I am not that good at charades.

Maybe I do, but I live in Maryland, Government Central, you live in Wisconsin.  Frankly, you don't know what you are talking about.

I grew up in Michigan, neighbor.  I used guns but never owned one until I moved to Maryland.

Come live out here for 10 years.  Walk the streets of DC.  Live with the overbearing corruption and government that comes with this area and you will get filled with anger too.

I just had to drive downtown Baltimore today to pick up my wife's prescription.  I got to drive around the drug addicts roaming the streets, dodge the folks trying to be hit to collect insurance.  Since I can't be armed, I walked the few block from my parking spot to Johns Hopkins with my hand on my knife.  I returned to my car to see it being scoped out by a local native that was walking the row of cars looking for stuff to steal to buy crack.

Live with the results of the overbearing Nanny State and see the results of the Police State and you might be angry too.

AFAS threads directly excusing the police, you are right.  On this thread nobody has came right out and fully sided with the police, YET.

I'm letting memory of previous threads cloud my judgement.

I'm just sick of everyone giving the police the benefit of the doubt and automatically assume the person had it coming.

BTW - Here's another example for you - Baltimore PD are KNOWN to testify for each other in the court cases.  A local newsperson went to court on a traffic ticket.  THe officer testi-lied about what happened.  Slight problem - the ticketing officer was a black female, the officer testi-lieing was a white male!  This was pointed out in court and the Judge didn't care.  The testimony (perjury) was accepted and the ticket stood.  SOP.

HiYa SGB, I,ve been lurking for a little while, but just one question for ya.
What if the story in the first post is accurate with no exagerations ??  
HMMMMMM.....
[x]

First read the top part of my previous response to you.

Nextly, I grew up in the Northeast my brother and sister still live there, along with most of the extended family unit. Excluding the relatives that live by DC.

Life is full of choices, the choices you make effect your life. If you think the Nanny state is not a national phenomenon you are wrong, it's differnt only in degrees and implementation.

My original point remains the same. There was not enough information in that news article to make an informed decision. I don' think anyone does any good by jumping to conclusions based on what they think a particular situation is/was.

SGB, it would appear that you are straying from the dark side...
remember, the force is with you......always
stay safe
51 out...
[x]

NO-AR-:( -

I'll grant you your point - more information is always good to have.


Now - where do I get that?  The police aren't going to give me their report.  They will line up 50 officers that weren't even there to testify on their side, if needed.

Right now, the State of Maryland is attempting to steal land from a local man.  They argued that an abandoned railroad line crossing his property was theirs.  The man produced a deed showing the property reverts to him if it falls into disuse.  The State's attitude - "fine, we'll just condemn it".

I'll usually side with the individual.  The STATE has unlimited power.  Unlimited money, time, personnel.  The individual is virtually powerless against the faceless bureacracy.

Tell me NO-AR-:(  did you research the Rodney King incident yourself?  Or did you buy what you heard?  Did you judge the Branch Davidians based on the State's propaganda, or did you get "both sides of the story"?

Well you don't have to go on a personal crusade for the truth. But the newspaper reporter should have attempted to interview someone from TRT, or an administrator from the PD. If they did do that do you think that "no comment" wouldn't have made it in there?

"They will line up 50 officers to lie" I don't know that I can do anything about that mentality. But if officers, who are people, are so prone to lying then all people must be prone to lying, including the plaintiff in the lawsuit.

I have no idea about the land problem.

Yeah, ever heard of the Constitution that limits the governments power. It also say that the Govt must prove guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt, and ensures that the defendant never has to answer any question unless the defendant wants to.

Unlimited money, go to your local courthouse or other government building, check out how old, it is what kind of shape it's in, how much equipment, and space the employees have. Then go to your bank's headquarters. Then tell me who has the money.

Time is a resource we all have. Personnel, think again, most police depts go from call to call. Yes they have lots of people but usually there time is already spoken for. The detectives in the county I live in have between 100-300 active cases assigned to them at any one time, they won't have spare time until 6 months after they retire.

I don't get you on Rodney King, I've seen the video, which is longer than the excerpt that the news shows repeated ad nauseam. What is you point here?

Branch Davidians, the ATF had a warrant, if you look in the Constitution warrants are listed in there. They had the right to serve that warrant. And just so you know me and the guy, who is now my supervisor, had words about the ending of that siege. He said the government had to do something because they were being worn down. I told him I thought it was ridiculous to think that 50 or so people could wear down the entire US government. I also didn't like the tear gas and the loud noise/music tactic. I also think the original raid was poorly planned and executed.  

But what does this have to do with anything? I don't see you claiming that all citizens are animals because of the Metro cop, whose funeral pictures are on this site, got killed by a citizen. You do an awful lot to promote the them vs us feelings that people complain about. You say that cops lie and you give the benefit of the doubt to the individual. Are not cops individuals? Who do you think lies more citizens to cops or cops to citizens? You'll promote the them vs us feelings then you'll cry when police officers say they trust other cops far more than other citizens.

I don't see anyone ID'ing themselves as a LEO starting a "guess what some dumb citizen ........" How many anti-police posts do you see here?? How many posts talk about killing police officers if the situation is such and such??

How many citizens are killed by police officers, and I mean criminal homicide?? How many officers are killed each year in the line of duty, doing a job so that others may be safe? Care to guess which group is smaller and yet has more of it's members killed???

I don't like to see people hurt on either side.  But I also support my rights.  I would be the last one to activly want to shoot or harm anyone.  But as dar as I would say if what I gathered happened to me I would shoot.  I assume they didn't announce themselves.  Which as far as I am concerned qualifies them as intruders in my home.  And I am sure you would agree thatthe safty of yourloved ones comes first to you.  Not "o maybe its the Swat team busting down my door."

If they announced themselves then I will stand corected.  The only thing in that situation I would be mad about is the fact that mychildren would probably be tramatized and need counciling for them to be able to live any sort of normal childhood.  I can see why she wants monetary compensation.  Counciling isn't cheap.  She is innocent if all is as it seems.  Therefore the PD should have to pay for the damages.  Or are these LEO's above the law and above justice.  Isn't there a part in the pledge of alegance "with liberty and JUSTICE for all."

Well is justice served if these children are deprived of a normal childhood.  Is it served if they spend the rest of there lives fearing for their lives and distrusting anyone that carries a badge because some police officer busted down the door to thier room and held a gun to their head.

It isn't a nice experience filled with a lot of screaming at people.  I don't know from personal experience but I do know people who are in the FBI and they say that it is how it happens.

So let me ask you, do you think it is fair that this lady if she was innocent should have to pay for the Polices mistake?  What if she can't afford the counciling for her children.  Her kids are going to grow up fearing and hating cops.

Violence begets violence.  All I have to say.

this goes out mostly to No-AR.  
read as friendly debate.

hard facts of the case assuming the raids actually took place:

1)No Suspect at residence. Twice
2)No weapons or anything found.  Twice
3)Two children in the house during the raid. Twice. (granted only partially relevant)
4)No denial of the raids by PD.  Twice
5)PD informed at least once that suspect was not present.

I probably could go on, but...
...if only these 5 are true I don't care about any of the other Who, When Where Why and how of it.  These LEO are not a gestapo and CAN NOT just do a raid and see what we come up with' tactics.

The first raid, maybe...with an apology for crapy police work to the 'victim' after a stake out etx that the suspect was not actually there.

but the second and still nothing.....!?!?

IF it did --- and I stress IF--- happened and you defend it...it is nothing short of a LEO Choir Boy defender attitude.  And this type of thuggery scare the hell out of me.

Thuggery.  plain.  simple.

not in my country.

zaz

How does that saying go?  Power corrupts, absolute vodka will get you drunk.  Something like that.

Close very close

Power Corupts
Absolute Power Corupts Absolutly

Atleast I think that is right

Agree on the fact that the article is just from  one standpoint.  The woman is on disability, and could be looking for a little money.  Sick, I know, but a possibility.

If all is true, the putting the gun to a nine years old's head, etc, than something does need to be corrected.  

stubbs