Goddamn motherf--king sonofabitch!

this isn't fair, I was only doing 80 in a 55! Perfectly normal in Indiana![;)]

least the second state cop got that mini-van doin 90... and he has to go to court for over 25... I don't[:D]

oh well, no problems with the carry piece, and it was only $84

[b]DAMN![/b] Fuzzbuster wasn't working, huh?

Eric The(IGo55OnceGoingUpOnceGoingDown)Hun[>]:)]

was that mini-van silver with a guy waving a tec-9 out the window[BD]

Hehe... sucks doesn't it.  See if the county that issued it has infraction deferral (most do).  In which case, pay the extra dough and you will still have a spotless driving record.. just in case the insurance company checks, it's worth it in the long run.  Scary thing is I sell Radar Guns... hope it wasn't one of mine that got ya, hehe.

-Dave
http://www.tracertechnology.com

tickets = tax collection...
[pissed]

Damn.  My only ticket was about four years ago do 75 in a 55 on my VFR.  Ticket was $140 plus what it cost to go to traffic school.  Bastards.  Of course I was doing well over 100 a couple minutes before so I just counted myself lucky.

The cop said it wouldn't reflect on my driving record unless I showed up for court... I thanked him for that ($84 ain't shit if the ins. company don't find out..[:)]) and offered to shake his hand...

Why don't cops shake hands? weird... I am a naturally friendly person, and don't understand this..

because people watching could think your passing the cop a bribe
oh yeah this is how the drug dealers exchange money & drugs to people in the big cities[BD]

Some of us don't shake hands because what is to say we are not getting set up to get hit, stabbed, etc, by a person we don't know.  

vyper45: There are some good officers out there!  I got stopped for speeding Monday night coming home from league golf.  He asked why the hurry? I clocked you at 77MPH! I said i was meeting my wife for supper, when actually i was thinking how good that tall glass of Killians Red was going to taste at the bar. He checked my record and insurance papers, then said slow it down an let me go.  Felt guilty about the little white lie!   Ben

Now that's a topic to discuss.

Police seizures-->funding the police coffer.

In my over 20 years of driving I've had 3 speeding tickets, and every time I was going less than 10 mph over the limit. Swell.

I think a good idea for anyone that is the victim of an ill deserved traffic citation might be to check out http://www.motorists.org/
The only advocate group for motorists that I know of.

They have some good advice for anyone considering a trip to court to challenge a ticket.  I purchased their Legal Defence Kit and have been 2-0 in my courtroom appearances since.  Well worth it from my perspective.  No one is a weasel for standing up for  themselves in a court of law.  It sure beats rolling over!

Well to the club.  You should have told him I was not going warp ten.  Just sub-light speed.

Somewhat OT, but how many people here wish we had something like the autobahn going all the way from the east coast to the west coast? A place where there was no speed limit.[:D]

You mean like Germany?

Where the cost of driver's ed is $3k+ and if you fail the license test you have to re-take driver's ed.

Where insurance is mandatory.

Where if you are arrested for DUI the Polizei take a sample of your blood, whether you want them to or not.

Where DUI #1 means you lose your DL for 5 years.
DUI in Germany is .08 and over, they figure it differntly so it's actually a lower level than .08 here. Where .04-.07, though not DUI, is a major traffic violation.

Where cars are inspected each year. Cars fail inspection for ANY rust, or leaking fluids.

Where the cops all have sub-machine guns, and some have full auto glock 18's as carry weapons.

Where the Polizei can SHOOT you if you run from them and they know you have a warrant, even if it's a warrant for illegal parking.

Where the setup terrorist check points and stop all cars. If you don't stop they usually have a belt fed MG to help you stop. Because only a terrorist would refuse to stop. Yes it suprised me when I came across one of them too.

Where private vehicle are cars only, no pick-ups or  SUV's. Where commercial vehicle are limited to 60 kph (37.5 mph).

Where they have photo radar and photo stop light enforcement.

Where it is a crime to call cops names or make hand gestures at cops.

Where cops can have a beer at lunch, while on duty.

NO-AR-:  What's wrong with that?  Sounds kinda nice!!   :)


Vyper45:

Did you get pulled over going on I65 North?  On my way home yesterday I saw a van pulled over and then about half mile or so I saw a car pulled over, both by state troopers.

Just so long as you guys know the system. Oh yeah the "autobahn" may not have speed limits on most of it but where there are they are strictly enforced. Also secondary roads, low speed limits strictly enforced.

And when I said the Polizei tak the blood of suspected DUI's, I mean the Polizei are trained to draw blood.

Herr NEIN-AR,

Just a few points here.

It appears that TacCar only mentioned that he would like to see a coast to coast highway that didn't have the highway robbery that goes with our interstates.  I didn't hear him longing for all the extra trappings of the FDR socialists.

But since you mentioned all those extra goodies I feel the need to bring up a few points of my own.

1.  Could you share were you recieved the quote on the cost of drivers ed?  I am just curious as I don't recall it being that expensive.  I agree with you that the test is a royal bitch and the Germans are real sticklers on their tests.

2.  Insurance in the good ol' USA is damn near mandatory.  There are what, a handful of states that don't require insurance to drive?

3.  Sure the police can't drag you out of your car and perform basic phlebotomy on us (yet) but you sure dont want to tell them you won't cooperate with either a blood or breath test.  In most jurisdictions that is at least a two year loss of liscence.

4.   Again I defer to you as I don't think there are any jurisdictions that are handing out Five year loss of DL's for first offences.  Again I am sure we will see this within our lives.  In any event a DUI or DWI anywhere in the US sure isn't a pleasant experience.  Could you tell me your source for the punishment of DUI?  I do believe you, I just would like the source.

5.  It appears to me that most states have or currently are incorporating vehicle inspections.  By personal experience I can tell you that many places will or will try to fail your vehicle due to cosmetic rust.

6.  Have you looked inside a Cruiser lately?  Ruger Mini-14's/AR15-M16's of many flavors/and of course the combat scattergun are as common as flashing lights and sirens.  Those weapon systems to me are far spookier than an MP5 or Glock 18.

7.  I suppose that police on this side of the pond have never shot anyone fleeing, even if they did not have a warrant just cause or a long rap sheet?  I am not stating this as LEO bashing 'cuz I don't do that but I am sure it happens far more often that any of us non LEO bashers want to admit.

(to be continued)

Continued from above...

8.  We have plenty of road block/check points in America. You got me on the MG though. In my experience they are either for DUI's or even for Inspection sticker/Plate sticker verification.  If you ask me it sounds far more petty (but no less unconstitutional) than saying you are looking for members of the Red Army Faction or the Baader-Meinhoff gang!
Your Papers Please!, sucks no matter what the excuse.

9.  Are you sure about the no SUV policy?  Could you give me the source?  I was fairly sure that commercial vehicles were limited to 100 kph/~62 mph.  You did forget to mention that they also have a speed tracking system installed so the police can inspect it after they stop you for any reason, if you are a commercial driver you have no protection from self incrimination!

10.  There are stoplight photo enforcement all over the place here.  They even shorten the yellow light dwell time, it helps the coffers!  There are jurisdictions that are trying to implement photo radar in the states.  Unfortuneatly these places are meeting stiff resistance from the LEO bashers and the NMA.

11.  Is it really legal to make gestures or sling names in the general direction of a police ocifer?  I mean there is no inherent right to bash police right?  If there is we need passage of the LEO Feeling Protection Act.

12.  Okay you got me there, I don't know of a single department stateside that allows for consumption of Alcholic beverages while on duty.  But hey handcuffed kids get blasted by LEO's and the review board/DA refuses to prosecute, so what if Johnny Law's shift runs into Miller (tm) time?  Who's gonna say shit?  Maybe the LEO bashers but they are always mouthing off, no one listens to them anyway.

Its kind of sad but I think we as a country are a lot more like the FDR than we are different.

1) US Army Europe 3-ID 4/84-10/85
2) Yes, but I don't think it is inexpensive in Germany. They have a different attitude about it. Part of which if you can't afford to keep your car up, or insurance paid, then you don't need to drive. That whole I need to drive to work arguement doesn't impress them.
3) Well most places here offer breath or blood tests. The blood tests being performed by medical professionals. Yes people refuse the tests. It is a little different when the cop get the needle and says "I'll be taking your blood".
4)Public info in Germany when I was there, and the US forces Europe website.
5) No inspections here. They fail for any rust or leaks. Furhter if you fix your car you must you original manufacturer's parts. Don't ever remember seeing cars w/o a front plate or 2 working headlights in Germany. And there is no way they would allow a car leaving a cloud of exhaust smoke behind it on the road.
6) And most LE weapons here are semi-auto, their's were not. A Glock 18 at 1200 rpm would be fearsome.
7) Yeah there are hundreds of people shot by police officers every year in every state in the union. It is legal for them to shoot people at appx. the same force level that us cops would use batons. It is a much different phylosophy. They feel that JUstice happens in Courts and the police are to bring people to Court, and that anyone preventing the police from doing that is trying to subvert the whole justice system.
8)No road blocks here. The night they did it, it was at the apex of a hairpin turn and the polizei had a tiny 4"X4" stop sign. The driver had to dynamite the brakes to get close to stopped before the cop saw the US Army Europe soldier plates. They don't have our Constitution, and of course they also had terrorists.

9)Because I was there, no pick-up truck at all. Lots of Germans had bikes with bins, and trailers for work stuff. Saw plumbers and carpenters biking to their jobs like that. Most commercial trucks were small with an enclosed rear, like micro vans. Bigger than that was not allowed on city streets. Big "18 wheelers" only allowed on the Autobahn and at designated freight transfer points. 60 kph per hour, no passing, restricted to the right lane, of course they supposedly didn't have a weight limit either.
10) The dwell time, the report I saw, after much hype indicated that yellow light time was not reduced and in some cases lengthened. NBC I think 1-2 weeks ago based on Sen. Armey's "study". Germany has had that stuff for years. No stop light or photo radar here yet.
11) I would say that you still have your 1st Amendment Rights. You can't start up with "fighting words" or make words and phrases that would provoke any "regular" person, in fact most places legally feel that a police officer shouldn't be provoked by obnoxious behavior, they should be able to deal with it better than a regular citizen. In Germany they would publish a list of words and gestures that you could be arrested for if you directed them at a cop, they also listed the fine amounts. Looking at a cop tapping your #1 finger on your temple-illegal.
12) I'm so not sure of your point here.

I was talking about West Germany, FRG. I think most of their laws were the ones that prevailed after the reunification.

NO-AR,

1)  Thanks for the source!

2)  It ain't cheap here either.  Your need to drive to your place of employment, despite your inability to pay whatever the cost of insurance, or emmission work fails to pass the "So What?" test of both the bureaucrats and insurance industry (who happen to be holding hands more often than not) this is to be expected when you turn the right to convey yourself as you see fit to a privellege to drive.

3)  You must admit there is no effective way of avoiding self incrimination in traffic situations in this country, without losing your DL anyway?

4)  When were you there?  I don't recall that severity from 79-86?

5)  Thats right the big Cheese doesnt have state mandated inspections (yet), you should be thankful.  I am sure both the libertarians in your state are pretty happy about that too.

6)  Most are semi, not all, and I would prefer a hail of 9mm over 5.56mm ever day of the week and twice on sunday.  Something about level 2 penetration that bugs me.

7)  Agreed.  Justly and unjustly.  Arguing with euro cops is probably almost as suicidal as arguing with central american/asia LEO's.

8) You don't even have the sobriety roadblocks?  Those WI libertarians (both of them) must be working overtime!

9)  I coulda swore I saw some (like a couple) of the Mercedes 4X4's over there, they looked a bit like a Land Rover but it was a Mercedes.

10) You may not have Traffic Cameras in Fond Du Lac or La Crosse but in Montgommery/PG counties in MD and Fairfax county VA sure as hell has them!  I believe it was ~three or four months ago the VA appeals court stuck it to Fairfax because their yellow lights were timed too short for state standards.  I believe they might have had to refund everyone robbed!  Photo radar...a matter of time.

11)  Held to a higher standard (as it should be) and yes the Germans are a super sensitive lot.  I think you get in trouble for words/gestures even if it isn't to a Polizei.

12) Point being that with all the examples of such goings on as handcuffed kids and other examples of obvious innocents getting shot (the LEO bashers are always posting these kinds of incidents even though they know that 75% of the LEO's have never shot anyone questionably) there really can't be any fuss about drinking an "Old Style" while on the clock?  Its not like something real bad like whistling at a chick, or smacking her behind.  Thats the real no-no!

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my points/questions.  It is too bad the bashers can't understand that if they were just civil and rational they could converse as politey with non-bashers, as non-bashers do with each other!

1)..
2) That's just it they don't consider it a right, it is a precious privileg, and a resposibility.
3)Umm, I'm not sure exactly how to respond to that.
4)I'm pretty sure, not positive, they liked the drink, they liked to drive, they really didn't want the 2 combined.
5) Well, yes and no I grew up in the Northeast, mandated inspections including emmissions. I was also stationed at Ft Polk LA, some of the vehicles there were scary to see on the road.
6)Well, don't use deadly force against others and they probably won't get the urge to use it against you. Whether the hole is 9mm, .45, .223, or .30-06 the best policy is not toget shot.
7) the Polizei I saw were very profesional, 4 yr degrees, 1 yr acadamy. I never saw one use force or become upset. But they always seemed ready if someone was gonna start trouble they would stop it.
8) No road blocks, unless crime scene, prison escape, or big crash. No checkpoints.
9)Maybe Mercedes now, they have a mini SUV, I think there were use restrictions, extra licensing, and registration to the point of being unobtainable.
10) Talking about red light cameras, they run'em like crazy here. Photo radar is not legal, they tried to put it into law but couldn't get it. The want to put rules into effect on usage, one of then was no citation for less than 11 mph over.
11) I don'think their over sensitive, the just don't think the crap people might give them would be efficient.
12) I think probably less than 1% of LEO's ever use deadly force.