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Posted: 6/16/2001 1:30:20 PM EDT
[img]albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1003517&a=7384367&p=50465124&Sequence=0&res=high[/img] [img]albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1003517&a=7384367&p=50465122&Sequence=0&res=high[/img] [img]albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1003517&a=7384367&p=50465125&Sequence=0&res=high[/img]
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 1:31:45 PM EDT
Is that a DUI check point? That's a lot of cops to pulling over drunks if it is.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 1:33:32 PM EDT
It was a DRIVER'S LICENSE checkpoint.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 1:33:37 PM EDT
This is why people get so f#@king mad at leo's where's the probable cause ??? [pissed]
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 1:35:37 PM EDT
Is that is CA? That stuff won't fly in AZ, they already scaled back our DUI check points due to citizen outrage.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 1:41:49 PM EDT
Those pics only show about 1/5 of the cops that were there. I counted at least 4 different city PDs taking place in this and they had a HUGE command post/detainee processing area in the parking lot next to the checkpoint. Unfortunately since it was so dark, most of the pics I took came out blurry. They were writting down driver's license info of the people they were stopping. Here is a pic of the sign they had on the road that reads "PREPARE TO SHOW YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE" and there was another one on the center divider in spanish.. It came out blurry, but maybe someone can clean up the image. [img]albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1003517&a=7384367&p=50465616&Sequence=0&res=high[/img]
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 1:45:27 PM EDT
the donut shops lost money that night....
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 1:47:59 PM EDT
Wow, I've always had a healthy respect for state/local LEO's, but this makes my blood boil. What the hell right do they have to stop me driving down the road to check to see if my "papers are in order"? All these guys are missing are a couple of German Shepards and some MP5's in view, and I'm sure they are there but hidden away. What would happen if you attempted to "run" the checkpoint? "Your Honor, we had to to shoot 72 times, we felt endangered" What's happening to our great country?
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 1:49:01 PM EDT
Originally posted by Butkus51
This is why people get so f#@king mad at leo's where's the probable cause ???
View Quote
I have been asking the same question for years. There is no probable cause. This goes back to the old saying about giving up freedom for safety, or something like that.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 1:51:46 PM EDT
Looks like KY last month. We had freeking SEATBELT checkpoints AKA Click it or ticket! A lot of people were very upset about it and I don't blame them. It's a clear violation on our rights. I was one of the lucky ones and missed the check points....due to it listed on the state web site where and when they were having them...(duh)[rolleyes] I DO wear my seat belt every time due to being on a rescue squad and seen first hand why to wear them.[puke]
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 1:53:19 PM EDT
Larry, I think they read it as (just because we can) and whatcha gonna do about it ??? your papers are not in order comrade... please to follow me to re-education center..
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 1:57:49 PM EDT
Got news for you, folks. The probable cause requirement is not present for a DUI/DL checkpoint. There is no search, there is no seizure, unless PC is developed at the point. The stop is not a search or a seizure or an arrest, therefore there is no probable cause requirement. Some of you need to go back and read what the Constitution really says, instead of what you think it says. You might not like the act itself (I certainly don't, and have testified against the practice), but probable cause is the wrong issue to use in discussing these types of checkpoints.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 1:59:47 PM EDT
Darm, what is the right issue then?
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 2:09:20 PM EDT
Im with Slave 1 on this one. What is their right to check me? I don't drink and drive I have NO reason to go to jail at all! I am a good driver and use my signals when needed I stop at all red lights and so on..... So what in the h*ll gives them the right to check me?
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 2:26:10 PM EDT
I'm not trying to flame anybody, I really want to know what issue I should be taking up with this if it's not a probable cause issue. What they are doing isn't right. You go to the DMV and get your license. You jump through their hoops and do it right so that they will allow you to drive on the streets you pay for. In return for this compliant attitude you get treated like a criminal. That's wrong, not matter what the issue is.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 2:27:51 PM EDT
I may be a simpleton, but whatever happened to live and let live. I'll be a good citizen, and you the gov't leave me alone. I don't like having to "prove" I'm a good citizen. These things presume your guilty unless you can produce papers to prove otherwise. What do all you LEO's out there think? If you defend this practice don't whine anymore about hostility from the public, "people don't respect us", "we're the good guys". Don't treat us all as the enemy or before you know it we will be.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 3:04:13 PM EDT
The last checkpoint I went thru was allegedly for seatbelts. It seemed to me to be more of revenue checkpoint. It looked like they were writing tickets for busted taillights, tinted windows, no insurance, bald tires, you name it. They would let a batch of cars through, and then start checking everybody again. I got lucky, because I got waived thru. I usually get stopped for no good reason, and have never gotten a ticket.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 3:12:21 PM EDT
hey, guys. if you can get it taken to court, Indiana set a precedent with something very similar (DUI checkpoints). got all the way to the US supreme court. and they ruled in favor of the citizen(s) who brought the suit: namely, that it is a violation of the 4th amendment protection against unreasonable searches. have at 'em.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 3:15:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 3:16:29 PM EDT
Darm, what is their reason for asking for anyone's driver's license if this doesn't involve probable cause? They have not observed anyone doing anything wrong prior to the checkpoint. You say they can develop probable cause after the stop. They are supposed to have probable cause to stop you and ask for license. Without the checkpoint, they would not be able to develop probable cause to search. It is unconstitutional no matter what you say. And what about the fact that they are supposed to have a warrant even to search your car?
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 3:27:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 3:28:11 PM EDT
I'd tell those pricks to F**K OFF plain and simple. First question: "why was I stopped?" Second question: "if I'm not violating any laws then no, you may not see my license" Third: "Am I under arrest??" Fourth: "On what charge mein fuhrer?" Fifth: "I'd like to see my lawer before we proceed to the county jail, may I have your badge number?" This behavior is tolerated because people comply with it. Cease to comply and it will stop.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 3:36:42 PM EDT
I do believe that you have to show your license to a LEO if asked for it. Though in Phoenix (where I live) my brother and I were stopped outside a bar. We were on foot, and had been kicked out for being in a fight. The LEO asked for my brother's ID and my brother just said no and stuck to it. He never did show it to them. I guess it just depends on who stops you. Although I really wouldn't like to try that in CA, the police over there seem a little eager to 'enforce' the law. [uzi]
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 3:43:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2001 3:43:01 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Why don't we just let cops search our houses without Probable Cause then? Hey, it's just a harmless search! Probable Cause would be established when they find something. Maybe we station cops at the entrances to all the malls, and offices. Check for papers. Certainly would nab a lot of illegal aliens, err, undocumented workers. We could station cops at every street corner and check papers on everyone walking down the sidewalk. We could have them check your papers before you were allowed into your house. Just ensures that the correct owners enter the building.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 3:46:42 PM EDT
[size=4][red]WELCOME TO AMERIKA, A "SAFE" POLICE STATE.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 3:47:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 3:54:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 3:59:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2001 3:57:46 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 4:02:55 PM EDT
Here is a video taped incident at a license chekpoint where a woman got arrested for not obeying. (in Texas?) from [url]infowars.com[/url] ABBY NEWMAN: WOMAN WRONGFULLY ARRESTED AT AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL CHECKPOINT FOR KNOWING HER CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND REFUSING TO GIVE HER PAPERS EXCLUSIVE INFOWARS.COM VIDEO FROM THE ILLEGAL TRAFFIC STOP!!! CLIP ONE: ABBY REFUSES TO GIVE HER "PAPERS PLEASE" Fast connections: [url]www.infowars.com/video/a_newman/a_ram_files/guilty1st_fast.ram[/url] 56k: [url]www.infowars.com/video/a_newman/a_ram_files/guilty1st_slow.ram[/url] CLIP TWO: ABBY IS FORCIBLY REMOVED FROM HER CAR BY THE OFFICERS WHO ACCUSE HER OF RESISTING ARREST AND ASSAULTING AN OFFICER Fast connection: [url]www.infowars.com/video/a_newman/a_ram_files/resistingfast.ram[/url] 56k: [url]www.infowars.com/video/a_newman/a_ram_files/resisting_slow.ram[/url] CLIP THREE: OFFICER IS CONCERNED IF HE HAS DONE ANYTHING WRONG. HE ALSO COMMENTS THAT ABBY DOESN'T BELIEVE IN "OUR LAWS," BECAUSE SHE MAINTAINS HER RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT Fast connections: [url]www.infowars.com/video/a_newman/a_ram_files/laws_fast.ram[/url] 56k: [url]www.infowars.com/video/a_newman/a_ram_files/laws_slow.ram[/url] CLIP FOUR: OFFICERS VIOLATE THE FOURTH AMENDMENT, SEARCHING ABBY'S CAR AND MAKING BIZARRE COMMENTS ABOUT ITS CONTENTS, INCLUDING QUESTIONING THE LEGALITY OF ABBY'S HAVING A POCKET CONSTITUTION. LISTEN TO THE OFFICERS AS THEY TRY TO CONSTRUCT, THAT IS, MANUFACTURE OTHER CHARGES AGAINST HER, LIKE OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE. Fast connections: [url]www.infowars.com/video/a_newman/a_ram_files/them_fast.ram[/url] 56k: [url]www.infowars.com/video/a_newman/a_ram_files/them_slow.ram[/url]
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 4:19:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 5:25:54 PM EDT
HEY SGB, so a leo can stop you for any reason they see fit just to see your license ???? WHAT BETTER WAY TO ENCOURAGE POSITIVE COMMUNITY RELATIONS !!!!!! absolute power corrupts absolutly..... leo's need something better to do instead of fucking with people who have done nothing wrong !!! I know what they can do well...(see sinistrals pic above) KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK BOYS !!!! [pissed]
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 5:35:36 PM EDT
Imbrog, that is in Virginia not Texas. Don't blame that crap on us.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 5:55:28 PM EDT
I've got to stop reading this thread- I think the top of my head is going to explode after seeing those videos. The most disturbing part is they are going through reading material and saying it can be used to show she's the type of person who would "obstruct justice". How scary is that? And exactly what reading material did she have that was "possibly illegal" according to the cop? Are there illegal books in our country? Or illegal ideas? Are these checkpoints for "anti-gov't" types? (how they got the KKK into this I can't imagine.) This is just lazy policework. Why go out and chase badguys? It's too dangerous! We'll just hassle the citizenry and a few tickets will shake loose, a good nights work. Oh yeah, great work guys, I know you guys in Va. are sleeping alot better knowing that lady is off the streets.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 6:16:28 PM EDT
This topic really pisses me off, what makes me even madder is when I bring it up to my friends and coworker's and they are all for it. They constantly give me "It's for the safety of everyone crap". It makes me sick. On my way home from shooting on Memorial day weekend I was stopped at 2 DUI checkpoints, so I could show my papers. I agree 100% that this is all about lazy police work, and revenue raising for the department. They know they will be able to write a ton of tickets for minor infractions. Who cares if anyone is actually safer because of it. (Note I do not blame this on the average police officer, it is the command that need there head pulled out of their butt).
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 6:30:32 PM EDT
That Newman woman is my new hero. They had a seat belt check point in Concord, CA a year or so ago right in the middle of the noon rush on Monument Blvd. It was great to see the soccer moms yell at the cops because they were late getting back to work. I had to laugh a little. Anyway, this stuff is total BS. It's incremental, just like gun control. It must be stopped now.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 6:45:06 PM EDT
SGB has it. You mouth off to the man... you end up losing. Been on both sides of a traffic stop. The polite people will get the benefit of a doubt... and the asshole? "Cuff 'em and stuff 'em"
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 6:59:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:04:27 PM EDT
Hey fedgunner, so let me get this straight... unless you kiss the leo's ass you get shit on ?? how about you just follow the law regardless of how the citizens attitude is ?? what comes around goes around... guys like you will get similar treatment someday and then we'll here OOHHH THE INJUSTICE !!!! [pissed]
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:04:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:10:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2001 7:14:14 PM EDT by Sweep]
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:13:39 PM EDT
FedGunner- your missing the big picture. I've always been polite to police if I'm stopped, but that's because that's the way I talk to all people unless they give me a reason to be otherwise. To say we should just shut up and take our medicine is just plain wrong. That lady was right; you work for me, I pay your salary, remember? What ever happened to police being public servants? Why do you all have these chips on your shoulders, this us vs. them, with evryone not in uniform being them. This thread isn't about politeness to cops, it's about gross abuse of police power.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:20:24 PM EDT
When I was out taking those pics, I was staying on the sidewalk and did NOT use the flash. Why you ask? Because I didn't want to risk some trumped up "obstruction of justice" charge by "blinding" the officers while they were manning the checkpoint. I even said "hi" to one of the cops as he walked by and all I got back was a grunt and a dirty look.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:20:30 PM EDT
This is a good argument for pro-gun home defense. "I will call the police if my house is intruded". Oh, I'm sorry sir, but 50% of the local and neighboring counties' PDs are on the road right now checking to make sure people are buckled up...because after all, buckling oneself up not only saves your lives, it naturally saves the lives of others and improved your ability to safely operate your vehicle. You must realize it is more important that Joe Six Pack not kill himself on the road driving recklessly without his seat belt, than it is for your safety in the event of a breakin. Chances are you might die...might I suggest a Beretta sir? Jewbroni~
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:21:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:28:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hoople: FedGunner- your missing the big picture. I've always been polite to police if I'm stopped, but that's because that's the way I talk to all people unless they give me a reason to be otherwise. To say we should just shut up and take our medicine is just plain wrong. That lady was right; you work for me, I pay your salary, remember? What ever happened to police being public servants? Why do you all have these chips on your shoulders, this us vs. them, with evryone not in uniform being them. This thread isn't about politeness to cops, it's about gross abuse of police power.
View Quote
Actually, in one of these situations, I would (politely) ask the officer to please state to me IN LAW - Doctrine, legislature, code, etc, where this (let's say driver's license checkpoint) is legal. If he shows me, or calls in and asks what it is, and gives me a "well you see in Code 5.6.3a..." I will follow through without further delay and hand him mein paperz, even if he's just bullshitting me with a fake Code (he at least played along). If he cannot or WILL not tell me where the legality of the roadblock is doctrined, I will tell him that "ignorance of the law is not an excuse", and ask (once again, politely) that I be on my way - if an OFFICER OF THE LAW cannot tell me what is right/wrong, then I do not expect him to enforce this [i]magical[/i] roadblock upon me. Of course, it probably wouldn't work - some LEO's are stubborn and will just slap cuffs on me for "rehseestin' ahhreeesthh", as these bloody yokals in the video might say. Ignorance - It goes both ways. Jewbroni~
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:33:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARlady: hey, guys. if you can get it taken to court, Indiana set a precedent with something very similar (DUI checkpoints). got all the way to the US supreme court. and they ruled in favor of the citizen(s) who brought the suit: namely, that it is a violation of the 4th amendment protection against unreasonable searches. have at 'em.
View Quote
How long ago was this? I was there about two years ago and they were going through the same kind of thing, only they were checking for drugs. I'd be real agitated if they'd lost on DUI but were doing it again for other things. [red][size=4] P.R.K.
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:37:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2001 7:43:03 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:38:32 PM EDT
OOOHHHHH no jewbroni.. if you do that you will find yourself under the jackboot of the law. just ask sgb or fedgunner. just bend over, do whatever they say and kiss their asses... thats the new amerikan way(but its for safety)
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:41:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2001 7:40:15 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
[size=4][b]He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.[/b][/size=4] Does that sound vaguely familiar? It should, it's from the frigging Declaration of Independence! I say we lose some of them 'swarms of officers'! Eric The(gnats,jes'miserableOl'gnats)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:42:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 7:46:33 PM EDT
But, Imbrog|io - We're dyin' to know - WERE your papers in order???? [red][size=4] P.R.K.
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