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Posted: 6/16/2001 7:49:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Now I am really pissed off…
Why the hell do we complain about the traitors among us (LEO) that sold their humanity, common sense, respect and dignity for a pay check and a pension when we have our own Gestapo members right here (moderators) that infringe on our FIRST AMENDMENT… Why did YOU deleted my post… are you against my point of view, are you the thought police in disguise or IS IT TRUE WHAT I HEARD ABOUT THE MODERATORS AS BEING government INFORMANTS. Yes the FBI came to my house a while ago and among other things (not related to the subject) they asked me about the posts on AR15/general discussion board….no wander that you want money now, the government subsidy is cancelled. Be a man and respond to why my post/point of view was deleted. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 7:53:37 PM EDT
[#2]
ABBY NEWMAN: WOMAN WRONGFULLY ARRESTED AT AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL CHECKPOINT FOR KNOWING HER CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND REFUSING TO GIVE HER PAPERS.
Wow, did you hear the cop say [b]'Ma'am, you may be wanted in ten states for all I know.'[/b] If that's not a 'search' then there's no such thing as a 'search.' In the Founding Father's day, the question of identity was possibly the only 'search' that could likely be made by the State. They certainly weren't referring to fingerprinting, blood tests, DNA tests, ballistic tests, etc., now, were they? If I were the LEO, I'd have felt like sh|t having to do this. I mean, were they looking for the Connally Seven at the time? Eric The(AreThereNoHerosLeft)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 7:55:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Originally Posted By Butkus 51: OOOHHHHH no jewbroni.. if you do that you will find yourself under the jackboot of the law. just ask sgb or fedgunner. just bend over, do whatever they say and kiss their asses... thats the new amerikan way(but its for safety) NO ONE has suggested anyone kiss any ass. Only an IDIOT picks a battle when he knows he can not WIN it, lose to many battles and you may loose the war. If you had read my posts you would have noticed that I don't support or believe in these type of traffic stops. If you want to kill the beast sometimes you have to do it from within. Take it from someone who's been there, fighting against the system not easy, even if your on the inside. Take it or leave it, its free. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 7:58:04 PM EDT
[#4]
You know. after watching that video, the ONLY thing I would have done differntly would have been to get out of the car when asked. They could have cuffed me then and carted me off. A night in jail, and then start raising holy hell about the whole deal. I would bet you $100 there would be lawyers falling all over each other to handle a case like that for free (as much as I hate lawyers). Christ. Most of those books they were naming off are Tom Clancy novels for Christ sake. Do those guys ever spend any time reading anything but "Combat Handgun" or something?
It is important to not be a dick when stopped, I understand that the cops have a hard job, but, it is even more important to stand up for your rights. had maybe even three people, or four at that roadblock that night resisted, then perhaps the local PD or HP office may have had second thoughts about doing the same thing again. And I am sure with a couple more people being taken in for not showing the license it would have made the news. If you are unwilling to go through a little pain to stop the changes now, you may have to go through a LOT of pain to try and do it later people. Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img] |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 7:58:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: we have our own Gestapo members right here (moderators) that infringe on our FIRST AMENDMENT… Hate to tell you this, but just like you don't have a First Amendmant Right to use profanity in my house, you don't have a Forst Amendmant Right here on a privately owned message board. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 8:05:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Just remember WHO you work for and WHO pays your salary and buys all your neat toys..
why cant we "pick" a battle if the leo's are gettin too big for their briches... seems like just cause you got a badge YOU can have any attitude you want but us lowley "subjects" had better mind our P's and Q's or risk your wrath !!!! RESPECT IS EARNED NOT GIVEN !!!!! [x] |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 8:18:09 PM EDT
[#7]
The supreme commander watches over his LEO's as they march on to the next checkpoint to ensure the safety of the sheeple.
[img]http://history1900s.about.com/homework/history1900s/library/graphics/hitlerarmstretch.jpg[/img] ColtShorty GOA KABA COA JPFO SAF NRA "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them." |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 8:26:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Fortunately there was no other crime scheduled for those hours.
Quoted: ....... they are somebody's Father, brother, mother ,daughter or son).They are doing a difficult job under stressful conditions. Should you decided to act in a childish and or disrespectful (belligerent, bellicose or rude) manor you are going to lose your initial encounter and go to [b]JAIL[/b]. Should you win your day in court you will still be out of $$$$$$$$$$$ in lawyer fees, possibly suffer the lose of employment, stress and tension to you family. If you don't like the Law change it within peaceful parameters. sgb[0:)] I think what has most of us cheesed is: 1. That we have rights under the Constitution and other laws. 2. That there is this attitude by certain LE's that if we assert those rights (having first made sure we are on solid ground) we are "a problem" and they need to either get us to cave in by intimidation or else find a reason to arrest us. 3. That if we resist illegal orders from LE, we often have to risk at a minimum, time off from work and possibly having to pay a lawyer thousands of bucks, or at worst if it gets really bad, we could wind up in the hosp or morgue. If I'm out violating citizens' rights, about the last thing I expect is empathy from the f**kee about how I'm somebody's husband, father, etc. and I'm just doing my job under difficult and stressful circumstances. Funny how some of these guys think - they go around porking people and then can't understand (they claim) why people are getting sore!!!!! We all need to be better informed about our rights and what exactly is a lawful P.O. order and especially what are ILLEGAL orders. Liberties don't come without a price, however. There may come a time when we are put to the test. Just like some employers and partners, some cops are always wanting to test just how far they can get. If you crumple or act like a sheep, you're only feeding their misbehavior. Avoid doing stuff that a jury would frown on, but abide no abuse from those who are there in our service and are supposed to be protecting us. [red][size=4] P.R.K. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 8:35:28 PM EDT
[#9]
My opinion + .50 and it still won't buy a cup of coffee, but it might save you some grief.
sgb[0:)] |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 8:36:06 PM EDT
[#10]
I can't believe you people are questioning the police! For God's sake, it's for your own good. You have a right to travel freely, just not in your private property. Since your travel is a privilege, you have no right to be secure in your property against searches.
Civil disobedience never solves anything, just ask George Washington or Ghandi. And even if you win you still might lose money and TV time, so don't chance it. You're still mostly free. Heck, even if you get stopped, you still have had 23 1/2 hours to yourself, and that's at least 90% of your time free from unWARRANTed police questioning. Get vith der pogrom, resistance is futile. RESISTANCE IS INFANTILE! |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 8:41:24 PM EDT
[#11]
better do what da man sez...he got a gun an a badge
OOOHHH lordy lordy do what he say(its for the children) and BTW, the local eatery up the street sells a cup o joe for .25 Its the donuts that are pricey(unless your leo,then they're free) |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 8:41:33 PM EDT
[#12]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoted: we have our own Gestapo members right here (moderators) that infringe on our FIRST AMENDMENT… ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hate to tell you this, but just like you don't have a First Amendmant Right to use profanity in my house, you don't have a Forst Amendmant Right here on a privately owned message board. Hey Sweep ! Also hate to tell you this but if you would have ANY brains you would have seen that the same profanity you name, IT WAS USED 4 TO 5 TiMES BEFORE MY POST... and they are not deleted. It proves one again that is not the language but the context... Once again the THOUGHT POLICE in action... |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 8:45:42 PM EDT
[#13]
Tim, we should all just accept this crap? Then what? Should we just hope they don't decide to go any further. You have to let them know that this is wrong. I don't mean do anything illegal, but go through the channels and help get it stopped. Never give in to someone who is wroning you no matter what his/her ID says.
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Posted: 6/16/2001 8:47:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By Butkus 51: better do what da man sez...he got a gun an a badge OOOHHH lordy lordy do what he say(its for the children) and BTW, the local eatery up the street sells a cup o joe for .25 Its the donuts that are pricey(unless your leo,then they're free) Butkus51 you win, I bow to your superiority. I'm recalling all LEO and the streets are yours. Have a nice night. sgb[0:)] |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 8:54:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Uh Slave-1, Tim was using what's known as sarcasm.
But what can we do? First I'd find out who has the authority to order these types of stops. Than you need to do some legwork and get the crime report for that area that night (available to the public),and find out what the checkpoints did as far as helping the public safety. If you can prove that while all these cops were standing around, there was some serious crime going on around town, that info might be interesting to your local press/politicians (might as well have them on our side for a change.) |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 8:58:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Watching that video made me really chapped up. Those Barney's refused to admit that they were wrong and send her on her way. Then, after the arrest, they tried to justify it to themselves. The scary part is that they don't seem to think they did anything wrong.
My only point was to convey that if you decided to exercise your god given right to civil disobedience that you damn well should know what your in for. I don't believe that exercizing your Constitutional rights and refusing to obey an unlawful order is civil disobedience. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 8:58:55 PM EDT
[#17]
..The abuse of power is a very disturbing trend and these photos show a good representation at a minumum. Imagine what we don't see and what never surfaces to see the light of day.
..real disturbing indeed.. You'd think if they were really concerned with the safety of those drivers they would have given rewards to those that "ran the gaunlet" and came out as "good model citizens"..."Here you are...one free pass-the-buck card."..jeez..what a waste of public money to pay for that manpower that could have been better used teaching classes on safe driving, and paying our tearchers more than 15k a year to improve our youth. ..no wonder we are in a cess pool. ... |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:01:44 PM EDT
[#18]
If you really wanted to test them stand near a check point (as close as you can legally get) and video tape them for a while. See how long it takes to get arrested. Then when you get your court date ask the arresting officer what he was doing and why it couldn't be video taped, then send that to all of your local papers.
Tim, sorry didn't mean to go off on you there. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:04:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Uh Slave-1, Tim was using what's known as sarcasm. But what can we do? First I'd find out who has the authority to order these types of stops. Than you need to do some legwork and get the crime report for that area that night (available to the public),and find out what the checkpoints did as far as helping the public safety. If you can prove that while all these cops were standing around, there was some serious crime going on around town, that info might be interesting to your local press/politicians (might as well have them on our side for a change.) Great idea. Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img] |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:06:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Does anyone know what ultimately happen to "Abbey"?
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:10:45 PM EDT
[#21]
I think the check points might save a childs life, and isn't that worth it? [smoke]
I miss not having to pay for things. [:(] Edited by Janet Reno |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:13:33 PM EDT
[#22]
She was on the show last thursday and it looks like she is being charged with 3 felonies (class 3? I can't remember exactly what she said), anyway they carry 10 years EACH. She is out on bail, but is being treated worse than a murderer.
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:16:02 PM EDT
[#23]
..ok, I just spent some time watching those video clips...man-o-man, a true case of DAIA. Dumb Assess in Action. Also a classic case of "just following orders" "profiling" and "I have a badge hear me roar lady." I don't even think that AO could define "Justice"....any one else feel like they were in a fast food joint ordering a combo..."I'll have a number 4, add a side of resistance, obstruction, and stupidity."
I had the true feeling that this LEO felt like he was either losing ,or could not come to the realization that he was dealing with an educated American...so..well..the video says it all! Yvou vill cum qvuite! WTFO? [edited by the thought police, now we are coming for you] |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:17:37 PM EDT
[#24]
SGB, It's not about winning or being superior. It's about the rights that most people take for granted and the abuse of power that we see on a regular basis.
I know there are bad eggs on both sides, but even the bad eggs have rights too. LEO's have a tough job but if they cant do it without the "were superior" attitude then its time to move on to a new job. these checkpoints are just an example of our rights being ignored for some stupid reason. I'm sure alot of LEO's stand by and say nothing when they see a fellow LEO going overboard and untill they realize that unless they do something about it, then they are as guilty as the one doing it. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:20:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Here is the most recent Supreme Court ruling on road blocks and illegal search and seizures. This should make the whole issue a lot more interesting as even their opinion is unclear.
[url]http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-1030.ZS.html[/url] I think that any organized check point that isn't in an airport, or on the border should be illegal. Or else we should be able to drug test, follow and search the LEO's to make sure that they are playing by the same rules we are. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:20:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io: She was on the show last thursday and it looks like she is being charged with 3 felonies (class 3? I can't remember exactly what she said), anyway they carry 10 years EACH. She is out on bail, but is being treated worse than a murderer. That's very disconcerting. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:20:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io: She was on the show last thursday and it looks like she is being charged with 3 felonies (class 3? I can't remember exactly what she said), anyway they carry 10 years EACH. She is out on bail, but is being treated worse than a murderer. Imbroglio, considering all the moral support that this posting has brought forth maybe some donations to her leagal defense fund would be in order. Should you wish to organize same I'm in for $20. Time to put you $$$$$$$$ where your mouth is. Just my opinion, that and .50 still won't get you a cup of coffee. ( hate donuts ) sgb[0:)] |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:27:32 PM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By Big B: Here is the most recent Supreme Court ruling on road blocks and illegal search and seizures. This should make the whole issue a lot more interesting as even their opinion is unclear. [url]http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-1030.ZS.html[/url] I think that any organized check point that isn't in an airport, or on the border should be illegal. Or else we should be able to drug test, follow and search the LEO's to make sure that they are playing by the same rules we are. Big B, I don't think that will apply for "Abbey". She was being asked to produce a drivers license. Driving in not considered a right. Most states require that when you apply for a driver's license, you agree to produce said license when asked to do so by an LEO. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:27:50 PM EDT
[#29]
I would be in also, but my guess is that she has some ACLU lawyers already. This would be one case where they and I would agree.
Aviator [img]www.dredgearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img] |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:35:42 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: I would be in also, but my guess is that she has some ACLU lawyers already. This would be one case where they and I would agree. I was thinking the same thing, this is a liberal lawyers wet dream case. This lady will never spend a day in jail, but she will pay a fine, and that's really what it's all about- give us your money. In other countries I've been to, the police just come out and say it-"give me your money and I'll let you go", but here in America the police have to approach it a little differently. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:37:00 PM EDT
[#31]
I'd like to see a lawyer's opinion on Abbey's situation......... Any lawyers out there? |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:37:14 PM EDT
[#32]
I have a feeling that the local doughnot shop that day had spoiled doughnots...
We can DO something about this right now. Copy the URL of the post and e-mail it to all civil rights org., local politicions, local news papers, etc DEMANDING an explanation regarding to the abuse of power. If enough outrage is generated we can change the situation. REMEBER: After the WW2 not all the natzies were arested and prosecuted. A lot of them were BROUGHT here to develop the war machine... After the fall of the Soviet Empire/Communism, the ideology was not killed...it was imported HERE to empower the government... The tirany now is worse then the tirany from the King that sparked the Revolution 300+ years ago. The present government knows about this and this is the reason THEY hate the 2nd ...They want to make surs that their hides will never be hung out to dry... |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:39:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Hey Sweep ! Also hate to tell you this but if you would have ANY brains you would have seen that the same profanity you name, IT WAS USED 4 TO 5 TiMES BEFORE MY POST... and they are not deleted. It proves one again that is not the language but the context... Once again the THOUGHT POLICE in action... I was just refering to profanity in a general sense. My point was that this is a privately owned board and that the owners can delete any post they wish, even if they just don't like it, just like I can put stipulations on someone that enters my home. My parents do not allow other people to bring firearms into their home, including me, even though they have firearms. Yeah I know, kinda screwed up, but I have two choices. 1) Don't ever visit them at their home or 2) leave my firearm in the car when I visit them. Their house, their rules. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 9:44:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Originally posted by: WhoMe?
[b]Big B, I don't think that will apply for "Abbey". She was being asked to produce a drivers license. Driving in not considered a right. Most states require that when you apply for a driver's license, you agree to produce said license when asked to do so by an LEO.[/b] This thread didn't start out as being about Abbey and I am not referring to her circumstances. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 10:35:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Well this is interesting.
As far as I know the US Supreme Court has said that roadblocks like this are OK. Several states have said they are not. So it depeneds which state you live in. I don't think roadblocks are a good LE tactic, much better to stop people based on what they are doing. If she is in a state that allows roadblocks she probably has no right to refuse to ID herself. The key is she is on a PUBLIC road and needs a driver's licnse to drive. She must produce a driver's license when asked to do so. If she refuses she can be arrested. Whether or not she agrees with the stop and arrest doesn't matter (except in 2 states), you are not allowed to contest an arrest by resisiting, except in those 2 states that I can't remember. If she wanted to "fight" the arrest she should have done so in court. I'm sure the ACLU or another group would be willing to assist her. The judge may also have a dim view of this incident. Once the police arrest her they can search the car it is called "search incident to arrest" and is a practice that has been reviewed by the SCOTUS. The 4th Amendment protects against unreasonable searches. |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 10:58:28 PM EDT
[#36]
I just watched the video's.... I'm former LEO from NY state, I never liked road checks and only participated in one while I was employed.(part-time officer). N.Y. is a P.C. state, means no stopping for suspicious activity. You need Probable Cause to stop, I.E. you saw them break the law, complaint by citizen or other LEO. This doesn't mean I can't walk up to someone and ask them their name, but they aren't required to produce I.D.(in a non complaint situation). If it is a legit stop for a complaint, then I can hold until I.D.'d. This includes vehicle and traffic laws, If you are stopped you must have a drivers license, It is a public road and you are operating on it, If I as an officer choose to do my job while standing in the street, I can only stop you If there is a violation. I will not stop you arbitrarily and ask for ID. I don't know what the actual reason for these LEO's for stopping her was. I will watch the video more closely later....
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Posted: 6/16/2001 11:29:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Originally Posted By Big B: Originally posted by: WhoMe? [b]Big B, I don't think that will apply for "Abbey". She was being asked to produce a drivers license. Driving in not considered a right. Most states require that when you apply for a driver's license, you agree to produce said license when asked to do so by an LEO.[/b] This thread didn't start out as being about Abbey and I am not referring to her circumstances. Ok Big B, no offense meant.....I was just trying to clarify things..... |
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Posted: 6/16/2001 11:53:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Back in a time before I started to pay attention to such things, they did the roadblocks here in Oregon. I remember being in a couple. It was fought by some that cared and that knew right from wrong, and now we don't have them anymore.
I should look into it. I like the ability to turn over bad ideas. I liked the outcome. |
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Posted: 6/17/2001 12:42:11 AM EDT
[#39]
I was just refering to profanity in a general sense. My point was that this is a privately owned board and that the owners can delete any post they wish, even if they just don't like it, just like I can put stipulations on someone that enters my home.
My parents do not allow other people to bring firearms into their home, including me, even though they have firearms. Yeah I know, kinda screwed up, but I have two choices. 1) Don't ever visit them at their home or 2) leave my firearm in the car when I visit them. Their house, their rules. The post you have deleted is IMHO and I have the right to have my own oppinion...ANTI PRESENT GOVERNMENT AND THE POLICE STATE. Its not the language but the view you dont like.... Since you have deleted it means that you are afraid of THEM..How often do you bend over for them...what is the pact between you and them...what do you have to do so THEY would not close the site down...how long before you (and others) will inform the MASTERS about us, our weapons our thoughts. Hell I'll remove the front door right now so THEY can't kick it in. Since this site is becomming Communist DO ME A FAVOR AND REMOVE ALL DATA about me. I dont need the priviledge to log in anymore. Leave this post on the very top for a while with all my comments please. I AM STANDING TALL AND NOT AFRAID TO SAY IT AS I SEE IT. |
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Posted: 6/17/2001 2:26:39 AM EDT
[#40]
Wow - lots of POed people last night! [chainsawkill] |
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Posted: 6/17/2001 6:00:52 AM EDT
[#41]
OK, I read the short version of the Supreme Court Decision that Big B posted the link to, and (while not a lawyer) here's my take:
If the roadblock is directly and solely related to driving safety, we'd have a real challenge winning in court. Examples I believe they gave (read it last night) or that seem to be in the same vein are: Checking for DUI / DWI Checking for License & Registration / Insurance, depending on state requirements (if you aren't required to have insurance, that can't be a reason for stopping everyone) Checking for seat belt use The idea seemed to be specific things that directly affect motor vehicle operational safety. What seemed to be unjustified in their opinion, were general law enforcement purposes in the absence of PC, which sounds like they can't: Stop everyone to see if (in the officer's words) 'you may be wanted in 10 states' or even just your own state. Stop everyone to see if you have any contraband in the vehicle (NOT that any LE like to fish, yeah, right) Stop everyone for no other reason than to engage with the motorist & their passengers to see if they might somehow be violating some law, even though there are no visible signs. I'd recommend checking the link, in fact I think I'll read it again myself. What's your interpretation? [url]supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-1030.ZS.html [/url] [red][size=4] P.R.K. |
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Posted: 6/17/2001 3:14:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Yes the FBI came to my house a while ago and among other things (not related to the subject) they asked me about the posts on AR15/general discussion board….no wander that you want money now, the government subsidy is cancelled. ???? The post you have deleted is IMHO and I have the right to have my own oppinion...ANTI PRESENT GOVERNMENT AND THE POLICE STATE. Its not the language but the view you dont like.... Since you have deleted it means that you are afraid of THEM..How often do you bend over for them...what is the pact between you and them...what do you have to do so THEY would not close the site down...how long before you (and others) will inform the MASTERS about us, our weapons our thoughts. Hell I'll remove the front door right now so THEY can't kick it in. Since this site is becomming Communist DO ME A FAVOR AND REMOVE ALL DATA about me. I dont need the priviledge to log in anymore. Leave this post on the very top for a while with all my comments please. I AM STANDING TALL AND NOT AFRAID TO SAY IT AS I SEE IT. WTF????? BTT for this, I'm missing something, sumthin funny I bet. |
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Posted: 6/17/2001 3:22:23 PM EDT
[#43]
BTW, Dacon is, as of 3 minutes ago, still posting.
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Posted: 6/17/2001 4:16:35 PM EDT
[#44]
It's this very thing that gives the People the warm feeling that when the feds decide to outlaw and confiscate privately-owned firearms (of course the police won't have to give theirs up) our local law enforcement will go right along with the program.
"Hey, it's the law of the land! If you don't like it, talk to your legislators. Don't take it out on us." A Constitutionally-minded police officer will always be considered my friend, but when he forgets that he is one of us, woe betide him. FMCDH Semper Fidelis Jarhead out. P.S: I shoot better than 90% of the cops I know. |
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Posted: 6/17/2001 4:50:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Too much to read, and everything I have to say has already been said. I just think it's messed up, and it's times like this that make me wonder is this still the same America I swore to Protect and Defend.
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Posted: 6/17/2001 5:38:54 PM EDT
[#46]
Slave1, no problem, hombre!
Whether or not the Supreme Court says they are OK they go against the intent of the Founding Fathers. The Supreme Court has reversed itself before concerning their usurped power of "interpreting" the Constitution. It's still wrong. In New Hampshire they have to have a judges permission to have them, and they are usually announced on the radio. They seemed designed for nabbing tourists, which I disagree with only in principle;) Tim RESISTANCE IS INFANTILE! |
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Posted: 6/17/2001 7:22:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: I'd recommend checking the link, in fact I think I'll read it again myself. What's your interpretation? [url]supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-1030.ZS.html [/url] [red][size=4] P.R.K. From the way I read it, the Supreme Court has some serious concerns about the use of roadblocks to do what ever they want to do. Although they agree that it is okay to do so for drivers license checks, DUI and other public safety issues they seem to disapprove of these things that allow them to run amok just as long as they inlude a drivers license check, yet they specifically state that this will not be interpreted as though they should be stopped all together---go figure. Sounds to me they want to please everyone. From what I've learned in life, you either piss some people off or try and please everyone and piss them all off! |
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Posted: 6/17/2001 7:39:43 PM EDT
[#48]
So it's all in the name of "public safety". I think I'll put up a quote tailor made for this whole fiasco.
[b]"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."[/b] Benjamin Franklin 1759 |
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Posted: 6/17/2001 9:47:40 PM EDT
[#49]
>>Darm, what is the right issue then?<<
The right issue, IMO, is a cost/benefit concern to the city council, county commissioners, or whatever. There is no Constitutional issue, as driving is considered a privilege, not a right. The stop itself is not a protected item because of that. Sometimes, how the stop is conducted can rise to a Constitutional level (discriminatory, excessively intrusive, etc.). The cost/benefit issue is pretty easy--how much did it cost to do this little exercise, and is tha a wise expenditure? We found that checkpoints were rarely a good return on the time and money spent for them. Most states, BTW, have some item in their statutes that reflects the idea that anytime you are operating a MV on a public road the police can require you to show a DL. You agree to that as a condition of getting the DL. Much like the DUI law, where you agree to provide a breath sample as a condition of having a DL. |
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Posted: 6/17/2001 10:01:25 PM EDT
[#50]
>>I don't believe that exercizing your Constitutional rights and refusing to obey an unlawful order is civil disobedience.<<
The problem, as we see in this thread, is that very few people actually know what their Constitutional rights are and what constitutes unlawful orders. Lots of folks think they know what their rights are, very few are corrrect in that knowledge. |
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