Wow... I figured some people would balk at the cost and just say they couldn't do it, but I never imagined people would lose focus so quickly and argue points which are not an issue.

How many times can I say this... well, perhaps once more...

[size=4][b]MEMBERSHIP IS OPTIONAL. THOSE WHO WANT TO HELP CAN DO SO AND GAIN THE BENEFITS MENTIONED ON PAGE 1 AND THOSE WHO DO NOT, CAN CONTINUE TO USE THE SITE AS IT CURRENTLY EXISTS. THERE IS NO LOSS OF FUNCTIONALITY.[/b][/size=4]

I would ask that those who are confused to please read through the thread and catch up on the discussion and the facts.

The simple truth is that out of the 10k+ registered users, perhaps 200-500 truly enjoy and care about the site existing or not. Everyone else uses it as a resource because it is here. My goal was to provide things which people wanted and services which made sense to help make some of the cost/donation easier. Many of the free photo sharing sites will and have begun charging, thus why I wanted to push this into effect quicker. (Its actually done coding and really cool!) While free emails are everywhere, the email address was something of interest to everyone where many said they would pay to have one. (Remember that mail = mail servers which is another resource we've brought online.) So I felt this was a good compromise of services for the members/contributors.

Also, I plan on addressing ideas and suggestions once memberships are online for further additions. This means that those extra features and tools will continue to grow with your input and my time.

I just wanted to start this conversation early enough to get people excited and so they could start getting input on the tools and perhaps other things that may be very useful to have. I would expect at least a few weeks more of work before this becomes an option.

-- GB

Actually, the Photo Storage system was made possible by a member who I want to thank properly when the membership stuff is completed. (No I have not forgotten you!)

He came out of nowhere and offered to help with information and excess hardware he had available and ended up contributing equipment for the machines which will handle the mass storage of pictures and files.

Thus the picture sharing went from being something with high costs attached to it to being VERY affordable! A GREAT example of how some of the things in life seem to work out for the best and how you can never underestimate people.

Just wanted to throw that in!

-- GB

GB,
I am in.  Just let me know where to send the $$$.... (I, unlike some, will gladly pay via CC over the net, PayPal, whatever, easier than scrounging up the cash for a MO)...  

[8D]
WWoodworth

[b]NO! Shame on you!
This site is above anything that low.[/b]






.






.






[i]But I'm not,,,,  
you've still got my address, & phone #, right?[/i][:D]

There is no question in my mind that yes, some of the trouble makers will leave. At the same time some of the loyal AR15.com none paying members will find new places to hang out at the first sign of Paying Members get special treatment in the forums by the moderators or admin. This is a very touchy subject in the minds of some people. If your ISP give you free space to make a web page, then you already have a place to store and to post your pics. That's how I get my pics to post on AR15.com. Most of all ISP's offer 5mb of space per screen name as a bonus for using them as you Internet connection company. Some like Yahoo, its completely free to use and is 10mb of free space to use however you want. I am not trying to piss on anyone's idea. I have full understanding the cost in time and money to run or provide a service like AR15.com. But I can see where a paying membership even as just an option will and can cause a whole new set of problems. First and most part, paying members will consider themselves bullet proof when it come to post. Mainly no matter what they say that they will have some sort of protection from of being locked or deleted post. This will cost in new members as well as the older member for what ever reason decide not to pay for a membership. At this point of my life, I can't afford it even when its put to a person that its only $5 a month. As we all know that adds up to $60 per year, per person. So taking that number you times that by 100 paying members that's $6000 per year income generated for AR15.com inc. Off the top of my head when this move takes place it will be interesting how many do go into the long hull of the plan. In the next few months once this is up and running I see start paying membership numbers being 50 people give or take 10. With in 6 months I see a number that moves around maybe 100 strong. How ever the first time the sight has technical problems or people problems I also see that number dropping. People are very quick to swap around on the world wide web when it comes to what they get for their money. The demand most of all 100% none flawed connection, very little or no down time. And most of that they are treated like they are the only person in the world of any great importance. This means that members who chose not to pay for what ever reason will begin to be seen and treated as second rate people.

I am not for nor against this, and I have really no say in it one way or the other. I do feel that it might be the end of me here in the long run.

Dave Dee
NRA/ILA Member
AR15.com Moderator of Reloading Forum
A great place to get answers to your reloading questions.

Geez... now we're talking segregation on the web site???

How hard is it to understand the point of all this? Why is it you guys want to make a debate of every little thing that happens in here? You know, I thought this was a very fair and easy way to get people to be more involved in supporting things. Cut the donations out of stuff you want to get and make it cheaper. So instead of paying say $25 for a shirt you can pay $20 (example not based on actual costs of items.) What's the difference?

Some people can contribute if they so choose, so they get access to some kewl toys and a few extras. Nothing's changed, nothing is different. You don't want to help for whatever reason, great, fine, NO BIG DEAL. This is the friggen point, you are free to CHOOSE.

There will be no special treatment, the same rules apply to everyone. This means if you abuse someone the post will be locked or deleted. You threaten or post garbage, you will have your account suspended. Member or not, contributor or not, personal friend or not.

Last thing, billing and what not will be the big issue as well as how flexible we can and will make it. Monthly billing is most likely out, but perhaps 2 or 3 payments may be possible... it's still too early to figure that stuff out, but I will work on it. The site is my first concern, money comes second...

-- GB

this is getting ridiculous...

pay $60, get extra features (i'm still in, by the way) NO NAKED CHICKS, SORRY

don't pay, and do what you have been doing...

not a tough decision, and these guys do need A LITTLE money to help run the site...

Guess I will address some items...

Your account will forever remain the same on this site. That includes our side projects of 50World and an upcoming .308 site. You would log in as normal, nothing would change, and you would only have a few extra toys to use.

I understand the concerns so far. The number we came with ($60) is in no means final. BUT, I would imagine it will remain in that ballpark. Billing options will need to be looked at once I have the time.

This is by no means a way to make people second class users, I try to treat everyone in the same crappy fashion. [=)]

If you pay and and eventually have your account booted, there would be no refund. Why? Because you have to pull some seriously offensive or violent chatter as it is to get booted, and just because you helped out does not give you special liberties over others. This will of course be in the sign up agreement and probably the ONLY thing of concern. I also highly doubt this being a problem.

As for nudity... I have often wondered how many people would pay to see me dressed in my wife's lingerie... A section could be put up special for you guys if so desired...  [=)][=)][=)][=)][=)]

Honestly people, I am trying to figure out a nice way for people to donate and be recognized for that. All these previous donations with purchases are great, but what do YOU get in return? That warm fuzzy feeling is great, but I want to do more for you. I also can't give these tools to everyone since the picture area alone will start at roughly 5megs of disk space per user, email services and assorted upgrades also add to the overall performance hit and hardware needs. I'm sorry, but it just won't happen. And this, to me, seems a great way for everyone to feel good about it on both sides.

I promise I will explore options in all aspects, but I can't guarantee an outcome anywhere until I have time to really look at this stuff. Right now things are coming together and I am really trying to get the new site up for testing as soon as possible.

-- GB

Oh one last thing. I'll be looking to rebuild and expand the equipment exchange to make more sense. User ratings and comments, a better means to search for items, a more user-friendly navigation and categorization of items are a few goals. I also hope to add the ability to auction items as well (if people feel it would be a welcome addition). As soon as things clear up on my side, I will start a discussion thread concerning this and what and how you would like it to work, what you currently like, what you currently hate, etc. Just an FYI...