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Posted: 6/13/2001 4:18:20 PM EDT
could someone please explain using [b]logic and rational thought[/b] why women are looked down upon on this board? and when you answer, be damn sure that you couldn't reverse the situation and apply that same logic to men. because if you can, you don't have an argument at all. keep in mind, that this isn't a flame fest. nor am i looking to start a fight. i would merely like to understand the incessant hatred/distrust/dislike of women that runs rampant around here.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:25:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:28:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2001 4:41:32 PM EDT by paspecops]
Many of us have had multiple bad experiences with women. Some, like Imbroglio, have no experience at all. Women do not think like men, and most of us cannot understand that. Men are from Mars, is a trite phrase, but true. Some are resentful of women invading their turf. I will say for my self , that women don't know hwo to argue with men. A man-to-man arguement has the ultimate possibility of turning into a fistfight, and we are used to arguing out a point, then ALL agreeing to one plan. Most women will 'step over the line' when arguing and unfortunately for all concerned, we have no options. Women in general also have yet to learn how to lose an arguement gracefully. Until men and women learn how to fight fair, or we the men have the option of belting the ladies when they go too far, things will not change.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:29:19 PM EDT
Hello ARlady. People are stupid. I figured that out a long time ago.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:30:51 PM EDT
Personally, I wish there were more females on this board. I don't often see women at the range, so it is a pleasure to know that there are women who take part in shooting.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:31:35 PM EDT
Oh, and there is far more racism and prejudice against public servants than sexism happening on this site.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:32:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:36:55 PM EDT
I agree with InThePink.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:37:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2001 4:37:07 PM EDT by Jack-B-Nymble]
I read only the threads that seem to be of interest to me, back out of some of those, if I'm not. So, I do seem to miss out on a lot of the high drama around here. But on a recent thread that I started I was disagreeing with Miss Magnum. I admit, I was very surprised at the way she was attacked by some of the other members. I disagreed with her to the end, but I never attacked her personally. Didn't see any need for anybody to do so. I had read her posts referring to such treatment in the past, but that was the 1rst time I saw it firsthand. Didn't butt in on her side, did not figure that was what she wanted either. To answer your question, I really do not know why some of the posters here show their ass to the women on this board.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:37:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:38:35 PM EDT
i love it. i can just see some of you typing away furiously. i'll address them, from my point of view, when we have more. what do ya say? anothergene, no, nothing you've done (at least not that i can think of [:)] ) and not all men. i'm not leaving. i just really want to try and understand where the bahaviors/antagonism comes from. that's all. i usually can tell the difference between "boys being boys" and something else. i'm not too upset about boys being boys. sometimes it's even funny, cuz, (and as much as i hate to admit it), there's an element of truth to it. and no, i don't advocate girls in the boy scouts. we've got our own club. we don't need no stinkin' boys. [:D]
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:40:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:43:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:44:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2001 4:45:06 PM EDT by Jewbroni]
ARlady: Sorry that this isn't exactly "logic and rational thought", but this is coming from a psychological (which, in turn, is a scientific and therefore somewhat "logical") schema. Again, I do not say that women are LOOKED DOWN UPON on this board. They are hit on, given suggestive comments, etc. I would not say this is in a total negative connotation, but if these are the remarks made by men that you're referring to, then I shall try to explain the male in that atmosphere. 1.) There are more men than women, by a great degree, on this board. That gives them an air of superiority, because they feel that, once a comment is made, other guys will fall in suit and join in. Were we a 50/50 "society", if you will, I seriously doubt you would see such comments made by ANY sex to the other. 2.) While women are more [i]emotionally[/i] stubborn, men are unfortunately more [i]rationally[/i] so. A male might make a comment to you, which you might not appreciate it. Upon informing him of your dislike of rude, chauvanistic, or harrassing behavior, he, like many other males in real life situations, "just doesn't quite get it" yet, and will continue to make comments. What gives them that rationale, to make them think such behavior is acceptable? See 1.) 3.) If your argument is referring to people saying "women are evil", "I hate this person, why are women like this", "women:can't live with em, can't..." etc, I think these men are having ego problems. By finding solice in other men (which there are plenty here), who are similar in some aspect to them (most here are just your average gun-toting, blue-blooded American guy) who have gone through the same situations with women as them, they can rant about their feelings on the AR15.com forums and get people who will mentally and emotionally support him in his time of angst. This isn't necessarily BAD, as finding solice in others is a great way to relieve problems. However, when the said group rallies together, the feeling of "anti-woman" harbors, even if just temporarily, in their minds. And yes, WOMEN DO THIS TO. This is a natural reactional-physiology. I'm not trying to turn this around on women, I am merely saying that, again, because this is a predominately-male board, there are much more "anti-woman" remarks made than "anti-man". I hope this cleared up the situation. If anybody sees something that I missed, please add to my compilation. Jewbroni~
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:49:56 PM EDT
okay, guys, i'm off to the gym. back in about two hours. i expect to see some A+ answers when i get back. oh, yeah. let me add that this isn't directed at ANYBODY in particular (though if ya wanted me to name names....). i am just trying to "know thine enemy" so to speak. not that i consider you the enemy. you get the point. be back soon. don't break your fingers in your rush to retaliate.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:52:05 PM EDT
I didn't notice any dislike or hatred towards women in this place.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:58:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2001 4:55:59 PM EDT by hg112]
hatred/distrust/dislike Those are strong words. How many men on this board hate, distrust, and dislike their wives or girlfriends. I don't see you complain about how many members rally around a woman after see posts something stating that she is offended or hurt. Look at all of the men that are kissing your ass on this post. Do you think they would do that to a man? Even the mods are kissing your ass!
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 4:58:45 PM EDT
Girls are ICKY!!![:)] P.S. They have cooties too!!![:P]
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 5:03:33 PM EDT
I think for the most part the males of this board are "old school". Women do not, should not know about guns, autos, sports, outdoorlife. Some are just insecure when women know more than them. My opinion, my point of wiew, so I guess I can't be wrong. As for me: I fall under the horny desperate toad category. I am nice to women in the hopes of getting laid [;D][@:D]
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 5:31:57 PM EDT
Hell... I welcome women here ! The more "Womenz" that enjoy firearms, the better. Most women that I know are rabidly anti-gun and it's a breath of fresh air to see pro-gun chicks! Now. Do you have any female friends that we can hook up with Imbrog|io ?
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 5:37:13 PM EDT
Are you still trying to get everyone to act like you think they should? Hmmmm... It seems that government has the same problem.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 5:41:40 PM EDT
Men and women get along fine if they each respect one another. When a man and a woman come together it`s strange, and when they part, they`re usually stranger still. We are opposites that fit. There is going to be friction. I for one have got it all figured out and will start writting a book about it. I am just waiting to get smarter so I will not blow all the money from the book on stupid stuff like a room full of hicaps.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 5:42:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By InTheBlack: Personally, I wish there were more females on this board. I don't often see women at the range, so it is a pleasure to know that there are women who take part in shooting.
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Could not agree more. It is rare to see women at the range. Especially alone and never mind my age. Man that would be nice. Might actually meet someone around here with half a brain. [:(]
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 5:50:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 5:56:39 PM EDT
I for one welcome women to this board and to the shooting sports in general. I think some men feel threatened by women coming in to what used to be just a good ol' boys club. I am proud that my wife wanted to learn to shoot so she can share in something that is a big part of my life, plus if the situation ever warrents I know she has my six!
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 5:58:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARlady: could someone please explain using [b]logic and rational thought[/b] why women are looked down upon on this board? i would merely like to understand the incessant hatred/distrust/dislike of women that runs rampant around here.
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Simple: many of us males have had experiences in life that indicate that for the most part women don't know anything about this subject. Secondly, many woman are freaks - yeah I said and I'll say again. Manipulative, alternate agenda, hysterical, exaggerating, whining cuz they want their way freaks. (Did anyone see the words 'all women'? No - so shutup!) And yes, there are a great many dickless manipulative, jeleous small men out there too - and I don't wanna know them either! I already know one of the people that you consider to be your 'enemy' (laughable - you must lead a charmed life if consider this to be an "enemy") However, I recall one post that had some shit to do with two guns techniques - I did not bother to read the whole damm thing cuz it was flatassed silly. If I remember correctly you were talking about using two weapons at once and he called bullshit (don't know what happened from there - cuz I called bullshit on it too and had better things to do with my time than read some fabricated fuckin fairytale about being able to accurately use two hand guns at once.) As to the rest of the stuff that I seen on here - I have not seen anything that was derogatory - other than sexually suggestive. Ya know what - if from the very begining, a woman behaves in a manner which suggests that she has no (read zero) tolerance for such inuendos - they stop. In summation: 1.I have not witnessed (granted I have not read everything) anything that was not deserved and further that was not dished out due to gender. 2.Many men distrust women b/c of experiences beyond the scope of this board. 3.I challange you to find anything anywhere on this board that clearly indicates that a man "hates" any woman. Now - just cuz your obviously looking for a fight: notice how your quote that appears in #3 is blow way out of portion? See #2.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 5:58:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2001 6:01:37 PM EDT by stubbs]
Great post Troy. I remember my early political inexperience, and the lack of knowledge I had then. I can relate to some people that accidently post ignorance (not using that word badly). BUT, women here need to get thicker skin sometimes. Remember females, you are posting on a board that is mostly consisting of fat, smelly, rude, beer drinking redneck gun owners that have fishing lures on the desktop, are wearing old Lynyrd Skynyrd shirts, and think "Use-ta-could" is an English word.[:)] Be prepared for some attacks.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 6:00:19 PM EDT
Pathetic generalizations are the only things running rampant around here.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 6:01:59 PM EDT
ARLADY, Would you cite some examples of the behaviors you find objectionable?
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 6:17:06 PM EDT
Fighting, warfare, and firearms are typically a man thing! We love women, like to go shooting with our wives or girlfriends or friends, for many reasons. But as men we like to hang out and talk to other men. We probably feel that a firearms discussion forum is a pretty safe place to do this. We want to discuss and bitch about whatever we want to (including women!) Nothing personal, but I don't come to a place like this to chat with women. Period. There are probably some men that like sewing. They probably get hit on and catch crap on the sewing discussion forums. Oh well. I refuse to stand in the sun and complain about how hot it is. What about you?
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 6:51:09 PM EDT
The problem is this board is populated by men who love a hobby, not to mention a RIGHT, dealing with firearms. This RIGHT is under constant, virulent attack by media darlings like: Rosie O'Donnell Hillary Clinton Sarah Brady Diane Feinswine Barbara Boxer "Perky" Katie Couric Kate Michelman The "Million Moms" et. al. Most men don't want to get into a pissing match with emotional, irrational, ignorant, and naive women over the right to keep and bear arms. So, many of us sit back and stew in silence. The result is animosity toward the women mentioned above directed at all women. Sad, but true.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 6:53:30 PM EDT
"Why are we hostile to women?" I dunno, exactly. I can imagine a few reasons for the hostility(Mens' club, rowdy guys, etc.). To me, though, this hostility is strategically mistaken. The American shooter needs every new (law-abiding) shooter he can get. The flipping liberals would love for us to reject and alienate half of our potential recruiting pool.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 7:01:16 PM EDT
The best way to avoid the issue of being treated differently than the men, is not to have a "handle" that lets everyone know your a lady. Unless of course your here for the attention instead of the gun talk. If you are a gun person with a nondescriptive "handle", we shouldn't know your female. Right?
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 7:09:58 PM EDT
Anyone who makes an intelligent but one sided statement is bound to be pounced upon by those that disagree. Anyone who draws attention to themselves is bound to be pounced upon by those who want the attention. You're a woman on a mostly male discussion forum. You will draw attention. Don't pay attention to the children.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 7:13:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 7:14:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 7:15:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Vergeltungswaffe: The best way to avoid the issue of being treated differently than the men, is not to have a "handle" that lets everyone know your a lady. Unless of course your here for the attention instead of the gun talk. If you are a gun person with a nondescriptive "handle", we shouldn't know your female. Right?
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exactly now that is "logic and rational thought"
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 7:31:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hg112:
Originally Posted By Vergeltungswaffe: The best way to avoid the issue of being treated differently than the men, is not to have a "handle" that lets everyone know your a lady. Unless of course your here for the attention instead of the gun talk. If you are a gun person with a nondescriptive "handle", we shouldn't know your female. Right?
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exactly now that is "logic and rational thought"
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Now that you mention it there may be more women on the board than we think. Hmmm
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 7:34:49 PM EDT
Logic and rational thought? I'm too tired for that tonight so how about a best guess? I'd say that those "men" were on the high side of ignorance & on the low side of respect. Personally I love women & always treat them as equals, even if they can out shoot me. [:I][:I][:I] ColtShorty GOA KABA COA JPFO SAF NRA "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 7:41:42 PM EDT
ARlady, No hatred,distrust or dislike of women coming from me. Got nuttin but love fo ya baby! That goes for your sisters too.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 7:47:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 7:49:49 PM EDT
boy you guys were busy. [:)] okay, my turn. 1. women don't think like men, and men don't understand that. [i]so true. but is it any reason to be so mean to anyone that one doesn't understand? [/i] 2. people are stupid [i]so social faux paus are okay because the people doing them are stupid? in that case, the anti-gunners have a valid excuse. [/i] 3. there's lots more racism and prejudice against public servants going on anyway [i]again, it's not as bad as other things, so it's okay? [/i] 4. men don't come to a place like this to chat with women. [i]okay. i can understand how you might think that your contact with women would be a lot less on a sight like this. is that any justification for general anti-woman feelings? are you angry that women have invaded your space? it would be understandable if that's how you feel. just trying to get to the bottom of it. [/i] 5. i shouldn't have a handle that identifies me for who (or what) i am. [i]well, neither should anyone else then because frankly, i think some of the handles are distasteful. not true, but do you see the point? my handle is irrelevant. you're telling me that some men on this board have low opinions of women because i have a handle that identifies me as female. it might explain why those same men target me, they know i'm a female. but it doesn't explain why they feel tha way about women. nice try though. back to the drawing board. [/i]
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 7:53:47 PM EDT
See I told you!!! She does have cooties!!![:D]
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 7:56:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garden weasel: Pathetic generalizations are the only things running rampant around here.
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Haven`t you figured it out yet? When a woman tries to pin you down with a direct question, you evade, slide to the side, or generalize. Never answer directly, there is never one right answer.[;)]
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 8:07:36 PM EDT
continued.... 6. jewbroni, all valid points. can't say i believe that's they're all justification for some of the behaviors, but i see what you're trying to say. 7. to Face_N_The_Crowd, WTF are you talking about? i don't have enemies on this board unless they consider me to be their enemy. there are a few that i don't really care to associate with based on certain experiences, but i would hardly call them my enemies. and i don't know what the hell you're talking about me using 2 guns at once. i have never in my life fired 2 weapons at once. EVER. so it couldn't have been me that you were thinking of. and i've only fabricated one story on this board. one. the craziest (sexual) thing you've ever done was the post. made it up cuz some guys were heckling me to post there. [:)] so rethink your argument cuz it isn't even right. 7. thicker skin [i]once again, i'm not complaining about anything. i just want to understand. yes, some on this board need thicker skin. i, sometimes, am one of them. but that doesn't answer my question. back to the drawing board with you too. [/i] 8. here's my favorite: the 2nd amendment is under attack by women, so therefore, you guys get to dislike all women. [i]and there aren't any men trying to take away your rights? hmmmm. let me think...clinton, gore, schumer, andrew mckelvey, chicago's daley, baldwin, more than half the east's coasts legislators, both state and federal. sorry, you failed the logical requirement. back to the drawing board with you. [/i] 9. stealth, points taken and understood.
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 8:24:26 PM EDT
some of you guys are a riot. i loved your responses. especially the one about the cooties. and some of you got a little hot under the collar. despite the accusations hurled against me, i wasn't looking for a fight. if i were, i would have said lots of other things, emotional things, no less. [:)] i really do just want to understand. some answers were pretty good. i can see where some of you don't hold high opinions of "womenz" because of some bad stuff. but can you see my point when i say that it's silly to stereotype all women because of it? yeah, it happens. and i know women do the same thing to men. i make no excuses for them. but it's the same kind of argument as this: one person uses a gun to do something bad. therefore, all people who have guns are bad. the ONLY thing in common is the gun. that's horrible logic. well, it's no differnt with women. the only thing i have in common with some of your bad experiences is plumbing. someone, i think HANGFIRE, asked me to mention specifics. i'll try. today, someone said something to the effect that and idea couldn't be good because a woman supported it. that sounds pretty anti-woman to me. now, if he would have made it clear that he meant THAT woman, i would have agreed. that thing sitting on her shoulders is most definitely not her HEAD. several have expressed the opinion that women shouldn't be allowed to vote. based on what? rather than bitching about any shortcomings, try teaching us and educating us. you wouldn't believe the changes i've made in my ideology since i've been at this site, thanks in no small part to those who took the time to educate me. i hear all the time that women can't shoot. and i realize that sometimes it's just said in jest, but other times i'm fairly certain it's not. most of ya have been good sports. thanks. the others, well, keep working on it. [:D]
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 8:52:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 8:52:58 PM EDT
Why do threads of this nature pop up often? Quite frankly, I'm tired of the women on this board whinning. No, I do not hate women, and no, I don't think this board or gun ownership is for men only. However, allow me to answer your question, or rather give you my opinion. Perhaps women wouldn't feel so "targeted" if they did not constantly try to change our behavior. What exactly do you not like about us? Is how we rate female celebrities on their looks? Do you not like how men make *jokes* about their wives? Do you get upset when we don't want to include women in *everything* we do? What is it? Women always want to change men and their behavior. They want men to be "sensitive" yet be a "bad boy" at the same time. Women need to stop sending mixed signals. Better yet, stop trying to change us. Its not gonna happen. You can also refer to a post I made a little while ago about why some men are bitter:[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=26672[/url] I for one am sick and tired of women bitching and moaning and claiming men treat them like crap, disrespect them, oppress them, etc. Women do it just as much as men do and just as bad. I don't apologize for being a man. BTW, some of you men need to grow some balls and stop brown nosing so much. FLAME AWAY!
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 9:02:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 9:11:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2001 9:12:09 PM EDT by Jewbroni]
Originally Posted By Stealth: Anyone who makes an intelligent but one sided statement is bound to be pounced upon by those that disagree. Anyone who draws attention to themselves is bound to be pounced upon by those who want the attention. You're a woman on a mostly male discussion forum. You will draw attention. Don't pay attention to the children.
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WOW. First three are incredibly valid points - not sure how the 4th fits in with the first three, but it is still a great way of putting the situation into light. Geez, now I feel silly for the extensive plethora of vocabulary I had to previously wield...DAMNIT, there I go again! [;)]
Originally Posted By ARLady: ...someone, i think HANGFIRE, asked me to mention specifics. i'll try. today, someone said something to the effect that and idea couldn't be good because a woman supported it. that sounds pretty anti-woman to me. now, if he would have made it clear that he meant THAT woman, i would have agreed. that thing sitting on her shoulders is most definitely not her HEAD. several have expressed the opinion that women shouldn't be allowed to vote. based on what? rather than bitching about any shortcomings, try teaching us and educating us. you wouldn't believe the changes i've made in my ideology since i've been at this site, thanks in no small part to those who took the time to educate me. i hear all the time that women can't shoot. and i realize that sometimes it's just said in jest, but other times i'm fairly certain it's not.
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Ouch, I didn't know THESE are the comments made here on the board. I've heard some pretty biased, spinned, and frankly prejudice stuff here before (Webster's Dictionary says: See "McUzi"). These comments are uncalled for, and deserve an apology. Again, since these people are intellectually inferior, they are thus closed minded and will not do such a deed to cover up for their transgression. The only thing you can do is "take it like a man" (bad analogy [V]) and ignore them like the weak-headed children that they are.
Originally Posted By BigPig: Quite frankly, I'm tired of the women on this board whinning... Women need to stop sending mixed signals... ...I for one am sick and tired of women bitching and moaning...
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Hmmm...you can be an analyst, Republican, Democrat, moderate, pro-gay, pro-feminist, anti-abortion, or any other one-sided speaker in the name of a good debate. However, please refrain from being a hypocrite. Your words themselves are sending "mix-signals", if you smell what I'm cookin'
FLAME AWAY!
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You Have Been Served. Jewbroni~
Link Posted: 6/13/2001 9:13:49 PM EDT
BigPig, get a life man. i never onced complained. frankly, i'm sick and tired of you men being sick and tired of us women always trying to change you men who are always bitching and complaining about us women. (i should probably state here that i don't really feel that way. i just thought it would be funny to mock some of the attitude on this board.) geez. do you know how ridiculous you sound? i really just wanted to know. it's that simple. i try really hard not to make comments that are going to get me bashed for being a woman. but at the same time, i can ask why such a chauvisitic view was taken. frankly, i think my behavior regarding this subject has been darn spiffy. i don't recall every asking anyone to change. i may have suggested that a little more civility or respect was in order. and yeah, it may even have been directed at a particular person. but i NEVER asked anyone to change who they were. so get off your high horse cuz this ain't about you, bigboy.
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