Will it be in Aramaic as well?

Quoted: watching a movie is like giving a dime to the Democratic party.

+1  I quit watching Hollywierd movies sometime ago. 99% of the stuff they put out these days is not worth the price of admission anyways.......

Klinton and reno did not lie to a judge to get a warrant for a church, clinton and reno did not mount up and attack a church with full auto weapons--that not one of them had paid the tax on-, clinton and reno did not set up a sting and attack a man that had moved his family to get away from people like that, clinton and reno did not mount up and put MANY dealers out of business for stupid little shit. You can get all twisted about the UN and North Korea, but when we have people here in this country who are killing people and destroying their lives then you want to give them a pass? Thanks I will send you a membership to the KKK and NAMBLA also, you respect pigs,murderers, and thieves, so you will fit right in.

This is the line sparky, do you think a man should be ruined or his family killed for a 200 tax?
Answer that....and then give me your address for the above membership offers.

Quoted: Klinton and reno did not lie to a judge to get a warrant for a church, clinton and reno did not mount up and attack a church with full auto weapons--that not one of them had paid the tax on-, clinton and reno did not set up a sting and attack a man that had moved his family to get away from people like that, clinton and reno did not mount up and put MANY dealers out of business for stupid little shit. You can get all twisted about the UN and North Korea, but when we have people here in this country who are killing people and destroying their lives then you want to give them a pass? Thanks I will send you a membership to the KKK and NAMBLA also, you respect pigs,murderers, and thieves, so you will fit right in. This is the line sparky, do you think a man should be ruined or his family killed for a 200 tax? Answer that....and then give me your address for the above membership offers.

Well said!


Zen






"This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"  

Quoted: MrginVA.......who made up the charges and put the attack dogs on the scent? Why don't you just come out and say that Lon Horiuchi is your hero? I am MORE than willing to paint with a broad brush on this one? You want to defend David Duke and Schiklegruber also?

Uhh... I think there's a hole in your tinfoil hat.  Or maybe you forgot to take your Lithium this morning?

Insults from someone who loves the atf are taken as a badge of honor, thank you sir

Why don't you answer the question?

Do you think people should be killed or ruined over a 200 dollar tax?

I can get your memberships also.

People are their ACTIONS, not their personalities.

Zen



them's some wise words


Kinda like the ex.  Wonderful, gregarious personality, but in reality a lyincheatinho.

Quoted: Quoted: Now just a frikken minute here, Are you going to tell me that you boys are going to defend someone who have either pulled a trigger on woman and children or gone after their families and either murdered them or taken away their life for a piece of metal that is a half inch too short or a 200 tax? I didn't really hear that did I? Or did the short bus drop off a load here today. You had better get your tongue of the windows and pay attention. YOU do NOT defend the BATFE. I do not give a fuck who you are. I would rather be a boy whore on the streets than say I worked for a bunch of murderers like that. Hound, not everyone is a fanatical ATF-hater... They do serve a legitimate purpose, and although there may have be some power-hungry jerks in their ranks, you may notice that since Ashcroft became AG, there have not been any 'problems' like you describe... Perhaps we should just stick to hating Clinton & Reno???

+1

This thread has actually been quite frightening.  With attitudes like this, I would be frightended to be a pro-gun person wriking for the ATF.  So -is that what you want - an agency enforcing gun laws that is made up only of people that have no working knowledge of the legitimate gun market?

Some of you are in denial about real gun running and such that the ATF has to investigate.  From the sounds of some of you people, the VPC is right in assuming that gangs pick up full-auto weapons at gun shows.

I would estimate that the clear majority are interested in catching the hard core criminals.  If things go astray - you need to look all the way up the chain to see who is calling the shots.

Quoted: Insults from someone who loves the atf are taken as a badge of honor, thank you sir Why don't you answer the question? Do you think people should be killed or ruined over a 200 dollar tax? I can get your memberships also.

First, I wouldn't ASSume that I love the ATF.  You'd be incorrect.

Second, to answer your question - OF COURSE NOT!

Here's my problem with your"logic", hound.  Follow if you will... if I were to accept your "logic", I would need to accept a logic that would, when extended to others like, say, Vietnam vets - nay.. all members of our military past, present and future - would convict them all as evil MFers that should be killed because of the actions of a few at My Lai (women/children).  Are you saying that all Vets are murderers?

I certainly hope not.

What it boils down to is this - I simply refuse to paint with that broad a brush, hound.  As a free American, former member of the military, son of a decorated combat vet who fought for my right to live the way I do.... I just can't do it.   YMMV.

I'm not going to make any comments about Mel Gibson over his choice to do this movie as I don't know enough about it.

I will, however, comment on my experiences with BATFE.

I was in the firearms business in the 1980's and one day I had a visit from 4 ATF agents. They came into the shop and after identifying themselves, they began to accuse me, or one of my employees of an illegal firearm straw sale to a convicted felon. The ATF agents produced no evidence to support these accusations except to say that they had "an informant" who witnessed the sale. (Note: The ATF agents never knew about any sale, illegal or not. They only knew that a convicted felon had been arested on an unrelated charge and was found in possesion of a revolver that had been purchased at one time from my shop).

To make a long story short, there was no illegal straw sale, ATF had no evidence of any such sale, and their "informant" was a convicted felon himself with a long history of drug problems. This informant is the same individual that ATF used a few months earlier in an attempt to entrap another, private  dealer in the area on a supposed attempt to sell a class III weapon without proper paperwork.  ATF's case was blown up in court by the dealer's attorney but not until after the dealer had spent $50k on his defense. I know that dealer personally, and he was very cautious about how he ran his business and to whom he would sell firearms. When the convicted felon informant had approached the dealer at the behest of ATF, the dealer informed him of the law, told him that he wasn't about to jeopardize his license over any illegal sale, and then told the guy to get out of his shop. At the close of the case the ATF agents involved looked at the dealer and laughed at him as they left the courtroom. Your tax dollars at work....

After I spoke with the other dealer about his case with ATF,  I received a call from Larry Pratt with Gun Owners Of America. Larry gave me all the details of ATF's entrapment case involving the use of the same felon informant that they had threatened me with, and offered to help should ATF pursue a case with me. When I confronted ATF with this information, including my knowledge of their use of this convicted felon informant, they began to back off. But before leaving for good, ATF went through my 4473 forms and said they were going to take a number of them back to their office with them. I told them I wanted a signed, itemized receipt of each form they took. That reduced the number by half, but they still took them. They told me that they would have the forms back in a week.  

Now here's the final twist to the story, and the reason why I still have respect for professional law enforcement, but NOT ATF.

After a month had passed and I had still not received my confiscated yellow forms back, an FBI agent came into the shop. He identified himself and asked if I could possibly help him with a case he was working on. There was a convicted felon (a different one) who the FBI believed had purchased a firearm illegally and they were trying to find proof of this. The agent said that he could  subpoena the 4473 forms, but that he would prefer to ask for cooperation first and avoid that. I told him that I would be happy to help and we proceeded to go through the 4473's. While doing this we struck up a conversation and I told the agent of my encounter with ATF and about the confiscation of the yellow forms that had yet to be returned. The FBI agent got a look of disgust, embarassment, and anger on his face when he learned of ATF's behavior. He told me that he'd check up on this for me, and four days later I received the forms from ATF registered mail. Another law enforcement friend of mine later told me what the FBI agent couldn't say to me directly; that he was mortified by the complete lack of professionalism that ATF displayed, and how embarrassing it was that they should be considered Federal Agents.

I remain to this day, a supporter of professional law enforcement, but completely loathsome of ATF and the affront they are to all Americans.

(Believe me, this is the condensed version of what was a long and sorted story of ATF abuse)

Not one member of the atf resigned after ruby ridge, not one member resigned after waco, not one member resigned after taking Maadi down, Not one member has said anuthing other than yes sir let's go kill some more kittens and doggies. Even members of the IRS have quit in shame and have started webpages about the abuses of that department. ANYONE who works with them is the same as the trigger pullers, they support them and continue to do so.
That does not in any way compare to some LT in Nam going of the reserve, got the difference there sparky?

I'v worked with the ATF on numerous occasions...I havent seen them do anythign out of line.  I can't sepak for the entire agency though (as no one here can).

OK Hound,  I'm not going to waste any more of my time trying to convert you because a)I have no desire (or reason) to, and b)neither of us will ever see the other's point of view on this.  

As the G-man says, "we'll have to agree to disagree".

Quoted: I remain to this day, a supporter of professional law enforcement, but completely loathsome of ATF and the affront they are to all Americans.

+1