Why is the African AIDS epidemic Americas problem to solve? - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why is the African AIDS epidemic Americas problem to solve? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 10/28/2004 4:37:09 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I think Adolf figure out how to solve problems having to do with a particular population 60 years ago.

Build some ovens in Afrika and fire them up.

That is a really assinine statement. Anyone wanting genocide is an idiot.

mike

Posted: 10/28/2004 4:42:18 AM EDT

[#2]

It's not America's problem. What was the figure Bush is pissing away in Africa, 6 Billion? Another reason I'm voting Libertarian.

Posted: 10/28/2004 5:44:30 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
During the debates or in an interview there was a question posed to the candidates running for president about what can we do to help with the spread of AIDS in Africa.

How is this "our" problem? Why is it not the countries that are actually involved problem? I'm not a strong isolationist theory type but damn, when are we going to tell these freeloading moochers to take care of their own people? What's in it for us if AIDS is controlled in other countries?

I think the answer is pretty simple, Pangea.
We're the richest and most powerful nation in the world so the rest of the world looks to us to be the "big daddy" who will slove all of their problems. As you already know, we are also the "Great Satan" who has actually CAUSED all of the worlds problems to begin with so it follows that we should start to get busy to right all the wrongs we have caused.

On our part it's even simpler; Guilt, Guilt and Guilt.
If we don't solve the AIDS problem in Africa it proves to everyone including ourselves that we're a racist nation and we don't care about black people. Of course, we already KNOW this about ourselves. Our history of slavery proves it - enough said, case closed.
The same line of "reasoning" underlies our policy towards Israel. Since the Holocaust was really, in the final analysis, OUR fault (because we didn't heed the obvious early warnings and DO anything or bomb Auschwitz once we finally knew for sure) it follows that the Palestinian/Israeli problem is REALLY our problem to solve. I don't want you to try to confuse the issue with any facts regarding the "reality" that the whole damn Middle East mess is the inevitable outcome of one hundred years of European antisemitism, IT'S ALL OUR FAULT!

Posted: 10/28/2004 5:56:01 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I think Adolf figure out how to solve problems having to do with a particular population 60 years ago.

Build some ovens in Afrika and fire them up.

That is a really assinine statement. Anyone wanting genocide is an idiot.

mike

They have been committing genocide for at least the last 30 years, I just want them to be a bit more efficient about it.

Lebensraum, anyone?

Posted: 10/28/2004 5:59:13 AM EDT

[#5]

i always wondered why they didnt casterate people with aids, so it wouldnt spread...?

Posted: 10/28/2004 5:59:34 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Because the CIA developed the disease, silly.

AIDs, crack cocaine, it's a onder tey have time to murder, assasinate, and overthrow governments.

It's our problem because we have the money. it's global welfare. Wealth redistribution. karl Marx?

Posted: 10/28/2004 6:00:32 AM EDT

[#7]

If a giant asteroid was heading towards Earth, and it was supposed to hit Africa, killing everyone ON THE PLANET....

....and it was possible to knock it off it's course, SAVING THE EARTH, with a well placed nuclear blast....

Who should try to stop it?
The Africans, or the US?

Posted: 10/28/2004 6:09:45 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think anyone is REALLY interested in solving Africa's AIDS problem - but I think people do want to get out in front of it BEFORE it becomes our problem. My personal nightmare is HIV mutating into a virus that is spread like the common cold/flu.

If that happens, we'll certainly appreciate the work/funding we spent now to develop a vaccine and better treatments.

DK-Prof,

We can't even cure the common cold, and HIV mutates several times more quickly. The chances of developing a vaccine are practically none, barring absolute dumb luck.

Behavioral changes are 100% more effective in dealing with this disease. If people stopped doing illegal drugs and learned to be chaste until marriage (including fidelity during marriage), we'd wipe out the disease in our lifetime.

That's why I feel that AID's is one of the scourges mentioned in the scriptures. Righteous living is the simple answer to solve the problem. Are there innocents who get the disease today? Sure, but usually as the result of wicked behavior of someone else.

Funny how the so-called "righteous" seem to become manic depressives or alcoholics. Give me a break! The Taliban enforced all this righteousness and look how many people died!

Besides, they already had syphilis and gonorrhea when the scriptures were written, so doesn't it make more sense for them to have been talking about those? Despite what you may believe, it is impossible for anyone to predict future events.

Posted: 10/28/2004 6:10:31 AM EDT

[#9]

Because we are the richest nation on the planet. Because we have compassion for those who suffer. And because failure to defeat AIDS in Africa may one day mean the pandemic reaches our shores.

Its kind of like fighting terrorists in Iraq instead of Des Moines.

Posted: 10/28/2004 6:13:14 AM EDT

[#10]

We can't let AIDS kill all those Africans, who'd drive our Cabs?

Posted: 10/28/2004 6:14:00 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Funny how the so-called "righteous" seem to become manic depressives or alcoholics. Give me a break! The Taliban enforced all this righteousness and look how many people died!

One of your 'dumber' posts.

You conclude that being "righteous" is something that will lead to mental illness, facism and death.
You'll note that no one's speaking of enforcing righteousness, being stating that it is better to be good than to be bad.

Posted: 10/28/2004 6:38:22 AM EDT

[#12]

lets see were doing plenty to fight aids, its just that its never enough. not here, not there, not anywhere, according to the belief that america should pay for it all. the truth is if america stopped paying and offering forign aid and all the bs most of these countries would have to stop dicking around and get their houses in order.

i have a similiar argument about the various relief agencies prolonging wars and insurrection by feeding everyone and not taking sides. by doing this, they are feeding the fighters and freeing up resources that then go toward fighting. this also lifts the burden of refugees from the area because they can count on some outside group to feed and shelter them. as well meaning as we are, all the aid prevents third world countries from putting their houses in order. eliminate the aid and force these countries to figure out what they need to do to develop a sustainable economy. in the short term there will be revolutions and a serious amount of upheaval but over time the wars will be too much of a drain on their economies and will cease in order to allow for planting and factories to open.

eventually 100-200 yrs they will only bitch at each other at the un with each country paying their fair share. our benefit will be much sooner, the billions saved can go towards helping people here in the us when they need it as opposed to helping some warlord retain his grip on the food supply so he can feed those loyal to him and starve those who arent

Posted: 10/28/2004 7:02:40 AM EDT

[#13]

It is not our problem!!!!

Posted: 10/28/2004 7:14:26 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think anyone is REALLY interested in solving Africa's AIDS problem - but I think people do want to get out in front of it BEFORE it becomes our problem. My personal nightmare is HIV mutating into a virus that is spread like the common cold/flu.

If that happens, we'll certainly appreciate the work/funding we spent now to develop a vaccine and better treatments.

DK-Prof,

We can't even cure the common cold, and HIV mutates several times more quickly. The chances of developing a vaccine are practically none, barring absolute dumb luck.

Behavioral changes are 100% more effective in dealing with this disease. If people stopped doing illegal drugs and learned to be chaste until marriage (including fidelity during marriage), we'd wipe out the disease in our lifetime.

That's why I feel that AID's is one of the scourges mentioned in the scriptures. Righteous living is the simple answer to solve the problem. Are there innocents who get the disease today? Sure, but usually as the result of wicked behavior of someone else.

Funny how the so-called "righteous" seem to become manic depressives or alcoholics. Give me a break! The Taliban enforced all this righteousness and look how many people died!

Besides, they already had syphilis and gonorrhea when the scriptures were written, so doesn't it make more sense for them to have been talking about those? Despite what you may believe, it is impossible for anyone to predict future events.

What are you talking about? There's a huge difference between people deciding to better themselves, and evil dictatorships like the Taliban enforcing its will. I'm talking about people who realize that righteous living is the best way. Hopefully Africans will realize what they need to do. Otherwise, the less sensible ones will wipe themselves out anyway. Either way, the problem will eventually take care of itself.

Your remark regarding manic depression is pathetic. Manic depression, often refered to as "bipolar depression" is a physiological/biochemical disorder. I can't believe you mock people who suffer from manic depression that way. Have you no decency?

As for alcoholism, tell me how that applies to your argument. I've been totally faithful to my wife and I've never done illicit drugs, yet I don't even drink alcohol. So what's the correlation you boast?

You must be an athiest, otherwise you would know that future events have been prophesied several times over. Your loss.

Posted: 10/28/2004 7:18:48 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
I thought ebola was going to kill us all. That has so far been a disappointment.

Ebola destroys it's host very quickly. Sure, if the disease reached NY City, or any other large congested population center, the potential exists for massive loss of life.

In Africa, however, ebola often strikes in isolated villages and towns and kills its hosts before it can effectively spread to other population centers. It is simply too efficient, if that is possible.

Posted: 10/28/2004 7:45:51 AM EDT

[#16]

~~Why is it that everytime a person that happens to be black is brought up comments such as rape, drug use, minimum wage employment and (this one is common to muslim people also) genocide?~~

Oh wait, I forgot, nobody is racist here.

Posted: 10/28/2004 8:12:17 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
~~Why is it that everytime a person that happens to be black is brought up comments such as rape, drug use, minimum wage employment and (this one is common to muslim people also) genocide?~~

Oh wait, I forgot, nobody is racist here.

Interesting comment. Sure, there have been some anti-African-Continent remarks here. Maybe even one or two anti-black comments. There have even been some blatently stupid comments, like thelibertarian's remarks linking righteous living to manic depression.

Most comments, however, have dealt with the truth of the matter: Behavior

It wouldn't matter if Africa was entirely peopled with whites. If the behavior was still the same, they would suffer from the same problems they have now.

Is rape rampant in Africa? You bet it is. Even worse, many in Africa believe that raping a virgin cures AIDS. The result of this is that more and more children, even infants, are being raped in parts of Africa. The fact that most of those communities are black is incidental.

Posted: 10/28/2004 8:19:40 AM EDT

[#18]

The Aids problem in Africa is ours to solve because we can solve it. The question isn't; "Why should we solve it?" The question is; "Why aren't we solving it?"

Posted: 10/28/2004 8:21:30 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
The Aids problem in Africa is ours to solve because we can solve it. The question isn't; "Why should we solve it?" The question is; "Why aren't we solving it?"

How can we solve it? It is primarily a behavioral issue. Do you suggest we "impose" behavioral changes on Africans?

There's no vaccine for AIDS. If there isn't one for Americans, how are we going to give one to Africans?

Edited to add: Sukebe, if you know of a cure then by all means tell the rest of us!

Posted: 10/28/2004 8:27:16 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Im not apologizing for anyone here, but why is Africa is such a shitty mess today? One of my professors blamed it on the western world, saying many countries had dependent colonies in Africa, then for whatever reason just abandoned them, leaving them to rule themselves. Is this even close? Thanks.

I've yet to here anything factual that came out of a professors mouth.

Posted: 10/28/2004 8:36:27 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Im not apologizing for anyone here, but why is Africa is such a shitty mess today? One of my professors blamed it on the western world, saying many countries had dependent colonies in Africa, then for whatever reason just abandoned them, leaving them to rule themselves. Is this even close? Thanks.

I've yet to here anything factual that came out of a professors mouth.

Well...there was that time the professor said 2 + 2 = 4.

Posted: 10/28/2004 8:43:21 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The Aids problem in Africa is ours to solve because we can solve it. The question isn't; "Why should we solve it?" The question is; "Why aren't we solving it?"

How can we solve it? It is primarily a behavioral issue. Do you suggest we "impose" behavioral changes on Africans?

There's no vaccine for AIDS. If there isn't one for Americans, how are we going to give one to Africans?

Edited to add: Sukebe, if you know of a cure then by all means tell the rest of us!

Don't be an asshole. solving the epidemic doen't mean curing the disease or finding a vaccine. Your thinking is rather one dimensional. I don't know why that surprises me, but it does. We have gotten a pretty good handle on our AIDS problem here through education. Education is the key to changing behavior.
We are Americans. We are good and decent people. We help the rest of the world improve their situations when we can. We are the leaders of the free world and by that, we are the leaders of the entire world. We should act like it. If we can build a coalition for war, we can build a coalition to help people who desperately need it. We should do it simply because it's the right thing to do. That's what makes us Americans. That's what makes America great.

Posted: 10/28/2004 8:52:17 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Aids problem in Africa is ours to solve because we can solve it. The question isn't; "Why should we solve it?" The question is; "Why aren't we solving it?"

How can we solve it? It is primarily a behavioral issue. Do you suggest we "impose" behavioral changes on Africans?

There's no vaccine for AIDS. If there isn't one for Americans, how are we going to give one to Africans?

Edited to add: Sukebe, if you know of a cure then by all means tell the rest of us!

Don't be an asshole. solving the epidemic doen't mean curing the disease or finding a vaccine. Your thinking is rather one dimensional. I don't know why that surprises me, but it does. We have gotten a pretty good handle on our AIDS problem here through education. Education is the key to changing behavior.
We are Americans. We are good and decent people. We help the rest of the world improve their situations when we can. We are the leaders of the free world and by that, we are the leaders of the entire world. We should act like it. If we can build a coalition for war, we can build a coalition to help people who desperately need it. We should do it simply because it's the right thing to do. That's what makes us Americans. That's what makes America great.

I beg to differ. STD rates, ALL STD rates are on the RISE in America. Aids included. Education is NOT the ultimate solution.

I agree that education plays a part and an important one. But often the "education" proposed by many is nothing more than saying "Here's a condom."

Posted: 10/28/2004 8:53:40 AM EDT

[#24]

Ask Theresa Heinz sKerry........she's African American and this has got to be one of her favorite topics..............Africans. Because she is African. Just look at her.

Posted: 10/28/2004 8:56:45 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
...One of my professors blamed it on the western world, saying many countries had dependent colonies in Africa, then for whatever reason just abandoned them, leaving them to rule themselves. Is this even close? Thanks.

You're proffessor got it back-asswards the Western world didn't 'abandon' Africa - the Natives forced them out then choas reigned. They wanted their land back to rule themselves - now they have it - and instead of building on what the Colonizing Nations built, they decended back into tribal warfare.

Truely a waste.

Posted: 10/28/2004 9:00:15 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Aids problem in Africa is ours to solve because we can solve it. The question isn't; "Why should we solve it?" The question is; "Why aren't we solving it?"

How can we solve it? It is primarily a behavioral issue. Do you suggest we "impose" behavioral changes on Africans?

There's no vaccine for AIDS. If there isn't one for Americans, how are we going to give one to Africans?

Edited to add: Sukebe, if you know of a cure then by all means tell the rest of us!

Don't be an asshole. solving the epidemic doen't mean curing the disease or finding a vaccine. Your thinking is rather one dimensional. I don't know why that surprises me, but it does. We have gotten a pretty good handle on our AIDS problem here through education. Education is the key to changing behavior.
We are Americans. We are good and decent people. We help the rest of the world improve their situations when we can. We are the leaders of the free world and by that, we are the leaders of the entire world. We should act like it. If we can build a coalition for war, we can build a coalition to help people who desperately need it. We should do it simply because it's the right thing to do. That's what makes us Americans. That's what makes America great.

Your idealism is commendable, even if your profanity isn't. Yes, education goes a long way. What you've failed to address is the fact that African governments have proven to be some of the biggest obstacles to correct education regarding AIDS. Why? There are multiple reasons that vary from country to country. In many cases it is cultural taboo to even admit that a person died as a result of AIDS. In other cases, ignorance is how the government exerts and maintains control over the population. As is evidenced in Iraq, overthrowing a government, no matter how justified, can be a very sticky business. I don't want it to become America's regular vocation to invade other countries on a regular basis.

Then there are superstitions to overcome. Yes, people can overcome them, but it is a very time consuming and difficult task.

Where I disagree with you is the argument that the US has the responsibility to resolve the world's problems. The USA is not the sovereign government of the entire world. The USA is the sovereign government of the USA. Yes, we often help others due to altruistic motives, but it is unreasonable to expect that we will address every problem in every community in every country on every continent.

Posted: 10/28/2004 9:02:53 AM EDT

[#27]

Truly one of the best things that could happen to Africa is if it sank beneath the waves.Africa equals one giant Detroit.

Posted: 10/28/2004 9:30:28 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Africa's AIDS problem is a problem because AIDS is killing off the folks that would be in the armies of those countries in Africa. When those countires don't have armies the rulers can be taken out of power and groups like the Taliban can come in.
If you believe that then you should be over at DUh.

Thats a great rebuttal. If you think I am so full of shit or I am so sort of DUer check out this article written by the US State Department on what the US is doing to stop HIV/AIDS in African militaries and why

AIDS Among African Militaries Concerns Former Top U.S. Commander

In fact the man who has brought this scenario up is a US Marine and former deputy director of EUCOM. So there is some strategic merit to my argument, I really don't give a shit about Africa. I just don't want to have to deal with the place if it is invaded by Jihadi's while the rest of the populatioin is dieing from AIDS.

Edited for spelling, capitalization, etc...

The larger problem is total depopulation...

Africa will turn into a real life 'Lord of the Flies scenario', as almost everyone over the age of 12 in some countries is infected...

Of course, then we won't have to worry about the next round of genocide, or whatever, if everyone dies of AIDS AIDS AIDS...

Posted: 10/28/2004 9:31:53 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
During the debates or in an interview there was a question posed to the candidates running for president about what can we do to help with the spread of AIDS in Africa.

How is this "our" problem? Why is it not the countries that are actually involved problem? I'm not a strong isolationist theory type but damn, when are we going to tell these freeloading moochers to take care of their own people? What's in it for us if AIDS is controlled in other countries?

Because they can get on an airplane or ship and come here.

Posted: 10/28/2004 9:39:57 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Ask Theresa Heinz sKerry........she's African American and this has got to be one of her favorite topics..............Africans. Because she is African. Just look at her.

She is, indeed, a white African...

Born & raised over there by European parents...

Posted: 10/28/2004 11:16:24 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
I like to look at it as the Aids SOLUTION, It is really easy not to get AIDS, if your too dumb/imoral not to then, i don't see the need to spend my money to help you live longer so you can continue to spred AIDS.

Sory if its harsh but i don't realy care.

I 100% agree.

Posted: 10/28/2004 11:58:38 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Im not apologizing for anyone here, but why is Africa is such a shitty mess today? One of my professors blamed it on the western world, saying many countries had dependent colonies in Africa, then for whatever reason just abandoned them, leaving them to rule themselves. Is this even close? Thanks.

I've yet to here anything factual that came out of a professors mouth.

Here's something:

You spelled "hear" wrong. Is that factual enough?

Posted: 10/28/2004 12:02:48 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Im not apologizing for anyone here, but why is Africa is such a shitty mess today? One of my professors blamed it on the western world, saying many countries had dependent colonies in Africa, then for whatever reason just abandoned them, leaving them to rule themselves. Is this even close? Thanks.

I've yet to here anything factual that came out of a professors mouth.

Here's something:

You spelled "hear" wrong. Is that factual enough?

Spelling Nazi.

Posted: 10/28/2004 12:11:45 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Im not apologizing for anyone here, but why is Africa is such a shitty mess today? One of my professors blamed it on the western world, saying many countries had dependent colonies in Africa, then for whatever reason just abandoned them, leaving them to rule themselves. Is this even close? Thanks.

I've yet to here anything factual that came out of a professors mouth.

Here's something:

You spelled "hear" wrong. Is that factual enough?

Spelling Nazi.

Yes, but now you can no longer say that a professor never told you anything factual.

Posted: 10/28/2004 12:13:50 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Im not apologizing for anyone here, but why is Africa is such a shitty mess today? One of my professors blamed it on the western world, saying many countries had dependent colonies in Africa, then for whatever reason just abandoned them, leaving them to rule themselves. Is this even close? Thanks.

I've yet to here anything factual that came out of a professors mouth.

Here's something:

You spelled "hear" wrong. Is that factual enough?

Spelling Nazi.

Yes, but now you can no longer say that a professor never told you anything factual.

You win.

Posted: 10/28/2004 12:16:18 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

You win.

Yeah I win!

I thought for a second there you were going to point out all the other crap and nonsense I've often posted!

But it seems that I dodged the bullet!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why is the African AIDS epidemic Americas problem to solve? (Page 2 of 2)

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