You have not been whooped until yuo've been whooped with a HOT WHEELS track! those orange tracks from the 70's? man ... I hid all of mine, Im sure they are still in the attic of that house we lived in back then.

Quoted: Hitting kids is wrong, and doesn't work that well anyway.

Hitting and spanking are two entirely different things.

Hitting kids just makes them aggressive and hard to deal with and screws them up in many other ways. And just as an aside for those raising girls. Every girl who I have dated who loves to get the shit spanked out of her and be tied up and such, got lots of spankings as children. Is this what you want your little girl to be like when she grows up?  (Just imagine your daughter being used at the hands of Zen, that'll keep you from hitting her)

Spanking TOO much w/o "follow up" leads to what you describe.  

Quoted: On the other hand, some things are worse than a spanking.  If I say "Hey it's getting time for bed, let's clean up all your toys on the floor" and he goes and hides because he doesn't want to, out comes a garbage bag and all the toys go bye-bye (which seems to make him cry a lot more than a spanking!).

I had to do the same with my daughter yesterday.

She wouldn't pick up her toys or room for weeks, and of course, Mrs 95th Foot, the marshmallow parent, whofeelsguiltybecausesheworkslonghoursanddoesn'tseeherkidsenough, would clean it for her while I was out. But even her mother got sick of doing it, so I told my daughter if she did not pick up her things NOW, the "Evil Daddy" would take all of the toys and things on the floor and put them all in garbage bags and give them to the Salvation Army. She HOWLED in protest, but still would not clean her room. So, I removed it all, permanently. No more Barbies, horsies, etc....

Her two older brothers VERY quickly cleaned their rooms and put away their stuff left around the house. Enough is enough! Sometimes kids just don't get the message- nor do some parents- until it all goes too far....

PS I had to throw it all out, because the SA won't take toys- they are swamped- clothes and shoes only....

I'm a Texas prosecutor specializing in juveniles. I deal with these disruptive kids every day, and have for the last twelve years.
There are some kids that no amount of discipline will help. Not that many. The kids I do deal with...95% of the time, it's the parents.
I don't care if you spank, use time-outs, or  invite the Spanish Inquisition over. What works with one won't necessarily work with another kid, even in the same household.
Whatever the method, a parent's responsibility to society is to raise a kid that is not a burden to society.
The methods are almost irrelevant, but if you eliminate physical discipline, and your child is one of those that only responds to physical discipline, you are screwed.

I make em drop and give me 50.  

Quoted: Quoted: Hitting kids is wrong, and doesn't work that well anyway. Hitting and spanking are two entirely different things. Hitting kids just makes them aggressive and hard to deal with and screws them up in many other ways. And just as an aside for those raising girls. Every girl who I have dated who loves to get the shit spanked out of her and be tied up and such, got lots of spankings as children. Is this what you want your little girl to be like when she grows up?  (Just imagine your daughter being used at the hands of Zen, that'll keep you from hitting her) Spanking TOO much w/o "follow up" leads to what you describe.

Spanking and hitting are two different things?  Tell me how you can "spank" a child without "hitting" her?


Spanking breaks the bond between child and parent.  And it violates the childs natural trust.

It also teaches them that they can trade a spanking for getting to do bad things.

Plus, it isn't even a good way to discipline.  

Many, many cultures and countries don't spank. The US is one of few that do.

It is a remnent of the puritan culture. And a bad one.


You go ahead, and spank them now, and dirty old Zen (or someone like me)  will be spanking them later.



Zen
"This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hitting kids is wrong, and doesn't work that well anyway. Hitting and spanking are two entirely different things. Hitting kids just makes them aggressive and hard to deal with and screws them up in many other ways. And just as an aside for those raising girls. Every girl who I have dated who loves to get the shit spanked out of her and be tied up and such, got lots of spankings as children. Is this what you want your little girl to be like when she grows up?  (Just imagine your daughter being used at the hands of Zen, that'll keep you from hitting her) Spanking TOO much w/o "follow up" leads to what you describe.   Spanking and hitting are two different things?  Tell me how you can "spank" a child without "hitting" her? Spanking breaks the bond between child and parent.  And it violates the childs natural trust. It also teaches them that they can trade a spanking for getting to do bad things. Plus, it isn't even a good way to discipline.   Many, many cultures and countries don't spank. The US is one of few that do. It is a remnent of the puritan culture. And a bad one. You go ahead, and spank them now, and dirty old Zen (or someone like me)  will be spanking them later. Zen

I'm going to disagree with Zen...by all means, spank.  

Quoted: If you have to physically discipline your child after 5th grade, something's wrong. Kharn

This sounds a bit late to me but I'll agree on principal. I would have said Kindergarden.

Before they can understand language there is no point in spanking as they will not understand why their parents are hitting them.

After they can understand language, there are much better ways of punishment that will not damage their psyches.

I find it so sad that people don't see this simple truth.

Hitting your child is abuse, pure and simple.

If hitting a child is a good idea.  (at any age)

Then, hitting your wife or husband to correct them should be a good idea.  

Or hitting employees to discipline them.  

Or how about hitting friends when they screw up?

It doesn't make sense.

And you are damaging your children.

Think about it.

Sadly, years from now, you may see the light, but it will be to late to change the past.


Zen
"This is your child, there aren't any like it, but this one is yours"  

Quoted: I only remeber spanking my son once and it made me feel like shit. But I'd do it again if I felt it were necessary. But gusess what. He never kicked the dogs water bowl again. Yes I gave him repeated warnings.

Every time my dad spanked us he'd come in later, apologize for it and made sure that I knew why I had been spanked in the first place.  I know he didn't enjoy it, but I also konw that it really was the best way (for our family) me to be de disciplined.  It certainly got the message across.

ETA: Believe me, every single spanking I got was one that was well-earned.

Quoted: Spanking and hitting are two different things?  Tell me how you can "spank" a child without "hitting" her?

"Hitting" means to hit/spank/slap/whatever and send them off crying w/o follow up discussion or attention.
Spanking is a disciplinary action that involves a verbal intervention process afterwards, and a show of love and continued involvement with the child, ie: not withdrawing from them emotionally.  
Also, spanking is only for the bum and no where else. Most importantly a spanking should be a last resort.  That way the child knows your boundarys and isn't unsecure or experiencs "trust issues."  

Spanking breaks the bond between child and parent.

There is more to a parents duty than "bonding." A parents duty is to maintain structure for the child. If a child is out of control and is being denied intervention for fear of breaking a relationship(aka: bonding) with the child, then the parent is putting their feelings above their duty to their child.  That essentially demonstrats and teaches selfishness.

Many, many cultures and countries don't spank. The US is one of few that do.

And we are the greatest nation on earth.

You go ahead, and spank them now, and dirty old Zen (or someone like me)  will be spanking them later.

More instances of self esteem and self respect are instilled in adults by correct intervention than a policy of "no touch".  The ones who give in to dirty 'ol men were abused and neglected.  Disfunction attracts disfunction.

Underdone now, vastly overdone in the past.
It is an essential parenting tool but only if used minimally for extreme situations. I did swat my kids on the ass when they were very young and didn't have to do so ohterwise. And NEVER to inflict harm or pain but to get my point across. It was reserved for defiant behavior where they simply did not listen to my instructions or ignored their punishment, or in cases of dangerous activity such as going out in the road, etc. And then it was never more than one or two swats. By the time they were school age I didn't have to do so anymore as they understood what was at the end of the line if they didn't listen.
I also find that it is more effective when used in a VERY limited fashion. It has more impact that way as they then understand that they really stepped out of line to get spanked. You should talk to your kids. You are their leader, not their tormentor, and should act accordingly.
I do NOT tell parents in my office to do so, of course, but the crowd I see in a walk-in/urgent care setting are pretty damn dysfunctional for the most part especially as we are the local free clinic for all the losers looking for drugs, disability, etc. Their children are just as dysfunctional and I see plenty either on or destined for multiple med Rx for their inability to behave or act like productive members of society. I see 3 generations of dysfunctional fucked up people who cannot keep a job or function productively in society. And their children learn their social skills and parenting skills from them. Enough rant.
If you use it don't abuse it and NEVER do it in anger. Let the punishment fit the crime, ie be a little creative.

I just got an email, no doubt from this thread that says, "Belt? Beating on some smaller is a bully...."




Now lets get a few things straight for you smotherers & co-sleepers that send me nasty emails for a picture and one sentence.

1) Some kids require no discipline at all, these are poster child for what its like to be a kid. Some kids need their little butts spanked. If you dont know the difference, you are a poster child for sterilization.

2) You dont have to whip kids much, they just have to know you wont hesitate to whip them if need be.

3) According to my Grandmother there is only one place to spank a child, on their ass. I agree 110%.

4) We dont want to hear you count to 50 to get little Johnny to do what you told him to do. We dont want to hear you threaten over and over. We dont want to listen to your brat scream at the top of their lungs how he wants candy, etc. We are looking at you and thinking what a dumbass when we see your brat manipulate you to hells half acre. And when you wonder how those around you get their kids to do what they tell them to do and you have to say the same things over & over & over again, see #2.


Now, care to send me another email?

Quoted: We are looking at you and thinking what a dumbass when we see your brat manipulate you to hells half acre.

Egg-zactly!!

The beauty of the properly applied spanking is that the punishment is over quickly and the child is immediately given the opportunity to straighten his ways.

My dad followed this procedure, which I think is the most correct:

1. Give a clear instruction or order with known consequences

2. If it's broken, tell the child where he has disobeyed and make sure he understands that the punishment is a direct result of disobedience.

3. Spank right before family dinner.

4. Once the kid is spanked, it's "I'll see you at the dinner table." Go in peace.

Quoted: I just got an email, no doubt from this thread that says, "Belt? Beating on some smaller is a bully...." Now lets get a few things straight for you smotherers & co-sleepers that send me nasty emails for a picture and one sentence. 1) Some kids require no discipline at all, these are poster child for what its like to be a kid. Some kids need their little butts spanked. If you dont know the difference, you are a poster child for sterilization. 2) You dont have to whip kids much, they just have to know you wont hesitate to whip them if need be. 3) According to my Grandmother there is only one place to spank a child, on their ass. I agree 110%. 4) We dont want to hear you count to 50 to get little Johnny to do what you told him to do. We dont want to hear you threaten over and over. We dont want to listen to your brat scream at the top of their lungs how he wants candy, etc. We are looking at you and thinking what a dumbass when we see your brat manipulate you to hells half acre. And when you wonder how those around you get their kids to do what they tell them to do and you have to say the same things over & over & over again, see #2. Now, care to send me another email?

LOL! Parents with obnoxious kids are the ONLY ones who think they are cute. Everyone else would like to beat you and your brats.

+1000

Quoted: I just got an email, no doubt from this thread that says, "Belt? Beating on some smaller is a bully...." Now lets get a few things straight for you smotherers & co-sleepers that send me nasty emails for a picture and one sentence. 1) Some kids require no discipline at all, these are poster child for what its like to be a kid. Some kids need their little butts spanked. If you dont know the difference, you are a poster child for sterilization. 2) You dont have to whip kids much, they just have to know you wont hesitate to whip them if need be. 3) According to my Grandmother there is only one place to spank a child, on their ass. I agree 110%. 4) We dont want to hear you count to 50 to get little Johnny to do what you told him to do. We dont want to hear you threaten over and over. We dont want to listen to your brat scream at the top of their lungs how he wants candy, etc. We are looking at you and thinking what a dumbass when we see your brat manipulate you to hells half acre. And when you wonder how those around you get their kids to do what they tell them to do and you have to say the same things over & over & over again, see #2. Now, care to send me another email?

Many, many cultures and countries don't spank. The US is one of few that do.

Many of those cultures (Saudi culture for example) are very paternally dominant,and relegate women to an inferior servant role relative to the children. Children are allowed to run wild and make the mother's lives hell as a result. No thanks. Sitting quietly and learning when to be quiet and respectful may be Puritan values, but they sure teaches a better lesson about dealing with society.

We use a pinch instead of a spank for a few reasons:  It doesn't appear violent went used in public ("I don't know Mrs. Busybody one moment he was being a brat the next he was appologizing.  Kids sure are strange").   It's hard to get out of control with a pinch.  My grandmother used it on my mom, my mom used it on me, the cycle continues.

Now for the amazing part...  I very rarely have to punish my 6 year old.  He knows by our consistency that what my wife or I say is the law.  If he doesn't follow the law he gets punished.  Consequently, when the law is laid down we very rarely have to use punishment to get him to follow the law because he knows without a doubt there are consequences to breaking the law.

The 3 year old is still learning, but I expect when he is as old as his brother, he will understand the system as well as his brother does.

Kent

Quoted: We use a pinch instead of a spank for a few reasons:  It doesn't appear violent went used in public ("I don't know Mrs. Busybody one moment he was being a brat the next he was appologizing.  Kids sure are strange").   It's hard to get out of control with a pinch.  My grandmother used it on my mom, my mom used it on me, the cycle continues. Now for the amazing part...  I very rarely have to punish my 6 year old.  He knows by our consistency that what my wife or I say is the law.  If he doesn't follow the law he gets punished.  Consequently, when the law is laid down we very rarely have to use punishment to get him to follow the law because he knows without a doubt there are consequences to breaking the law. The 3 year old is still learning, but I expect when he is as old as his brother, he will understand the system as well as his brother does. Kent

Don't assume.  My sister (3 years older than me) was a breeze to parent.  I pretty much put them through hell.

Not to make you despair, but I'm just giving you a warning.  You never know.

It was amazing how fast dad's belt could come off.

But I don't think it ever taught me a thing. Seemed a week couldn't go by where I didn't feel his belt. I like to think I was just "independently minded."

And mom had a thick wooden ruler. Eventually I broke. With my butt, of course. Then she used a wooden spoon. IIRC I broke that one too.

I made a promise as a young teen I would never beat my kids like the ones I received. The beatings I got then, I was born in late 1959, were SOP for the day but would wind today's parents in the big house.

With my daughter I established who was the boss (parent) and who was the underling (her) early.

I would let her throw a temper tantrum for just so long. After all, it's the only way a small child has to communicate displeasure. But after a couple of minutes or so I would calmly tell her to get up and quit. Or I would give her something to cry about. Give her a choice. Kids really aren't so dumb.

As for spanking, I decided if I couldn't get my point across in three swats of my bare hand I needed to do something different. Three was all I ever needed.

And go ahead and swat them while in diapers. It's extra padding. You're swatting to get their attention, not inflict pain.

And I would rarely mett out 3 swats. Those were serious offences only.

If I had to scold her I would kneal down to her level or sit her on the counter so we were eye-to-eye. It's easy to ignore a schreech from above. Trust me.

I haven't had to spank my daughter in some 8 yrs or so. She just turned 16. She worships me (for better or worse - and believe me it's a very sobering thought) so all I have to do is raise my voice. She would rather take the physical pain then have me raise my voice to her.

And when I would spank her we would talk about why. Usually just before the punishment. But it's always done at home after everyone has calmed down.

I have a great relationship with my daughter. I wouldn't trade it for anything else in the whole world. And she feels the same way.

Quoted: Quoted: Kent Don't assume.  My sister (3 years older than me) was a breeze to parent.  I pretty much put them through hell. Not to make you despair, but I'm just giving you a warning.  You never know.

Blah!Blah! Blah! I can't hear you!

You could be absolutely correct.  I hope not, but the 3 year old is far more of a boundry pusher than his brother is.  My wife and I have already joked that we are dreading the teen years for the kind of mischief we think he is capable of.

Kent

Quoted: My wife won't let me spank the little bastard, but sometimes he really deserves it.

Just get a Taser & zap the brat.   After all, it's only a slight step above harsh language & below physical force.................

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hitting kids is wrong, and doesn't work that well anyway. Hitting and spanking are two entirely different things. Hitting kids just makes them aggressive and hard to deal with and screws them up in many other ways. And just as an aside for those raising girls. Every girl who I have dated who loves to get the shit spanked out of her and be tied up and such, got lots of spankings as children. Is this what you want your little girl to be like when she grows up?  (Just imagine your daughter being used at the hands of Zen, that'll keep you from hitting her) Spanking TOO much w/o "follow up" leads to what you describe.   Spanking and hitting are two different things?  Tell me how you can "spank" a child without "hitting" her? Spanking breaks the bond between child and parent.  And it violates the childs natural trust. It also teaches them that they can trade a spanking for getting to do bad things. Plus, it isn't even a good way to discipline.   Many, many cultures and countries don't spank. The US is one of few that do. It is a remnent of the puritan culture. And a bad one. You go ahead, and spank them now, and dirty old Zen (or someone like me)  will be spanking them later. Zen "This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"

Physical discipline of children is the first step toward persuading them that they are not the center of the universe. A whipping announces in an unmistakable way that even their precious dignity and personal integrity can and will be invaded if they break certain rules. People who are outraged at being manhandled when caught red-handed in the commission of a crime and/or who scream incoherently about their rights at the slightest provocation (any policeman or public service worker can give examples) were not spanked as children and consequently believe that no matter what they do - from simple rudeness to lying, stealing, cheating, and murder - it is unspeakably unjust that they bear consequences for their conduct. Nobody ever taught them that other people have rights, too (often codified in rules and laws) and that if you screw with them enough, they will enforce their rights, however much you may be affronted by the process.

I don't advocate routine corporal punishment, or corporal punishment for trivial offenses, but "hands off" does a child no favors. My kids were whipped or spanked for lying and for direct disobedience. They are nearly grown now, and I am the envy of every parent who meets them.

Quoted: My wife won't let me spank the little bastard, but sometimes he really deserves it.

You may be onto something...

Hebrews 12 7   If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8   But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9   Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Quoted: Physical discipline of children is the first step toward persuading them that they are not the center of the universe. A whipping announces in an unmistakable way that even their precious dignity and personal integrity can and will be invaded if they break certain rules. People who are outraged at being manhandled when caught red-handed in the commission of a crime and/or who scream incoherently about their rights at the slightest provocation (any policeman or public service worker can give examples) were not spanked as children and consequently believe that no matter what they do - from simple rudeness to lying, stealing, cheating, and murder - it is unspeakably unjust that they bear consequences for their conduct. Nobody ever taught them that other people have rights, too (often codified in rules and laws) and that if you screw with them enough, they will enforce their rights, however much you may be affronted by the process. I don't advocate routine corporal punishment, or corporal punishment for trivial offenses, but "hands off" does a child no favors. My kids were whipped or spanked for lying and for direct disobedience. They are nearly grown now, and I am the envy of every parent who meets them.

+1

As I see it, children are born as self centered savages.  It is a parents job to civilize them and teach them that while they are and individual they must also function in a society made up of other people.

Quoted: I can't bring myself to do physical punishment.  I don't look down on those that do, but I just can't do it. That being said I love time out, no TV, no Video games, no anything.  I have been know to take my nephew and toss him into a cold shower with his cloths on after he hit my wife.  That pretty much took care of that situation.

I'd say that pretty much qualifies as physical

Quoted: Quoted: I can't bring myself to do physical punishment.  I don't look down on those that do, but I just can't do it. That being said I love time out, no TV, no Video games, no anything.  I have been know to take my nephew and toss him into a cold shower with his cloths on after he hit my wife.  That pretty much took care of that situation. I'd say that pretty much qualifies as physical

It was not an actual toss.  More like open the door place him in shower and turn on cold water.

www.maddox.xmission.com/beat.html

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't bring myself to do physical punishment.  I don't look down on those that do, but I just can't do it. That being said I love time out, no TV, no Video games, no anything.  I have been know to take my nephew and toss him into a cold shower with his cloths on after he hit my wife.  That pretty much took care of that situation. I'd say that pretty much qualifies as physical It was not an actual toss.  More like open the door place him in shower and turn on cold water.

Either way you view it, it's still a physical act, and falls within your right as a parent (or uncle, if his parents allow you that authority) to subject your child (nephew) to it. You weren't putting him in there to clean him off. You put him there as a consequence of hitting his aunt. If you'd done that to a stranger, they'd have you arrested for battery. That's like pointing a garden hose at him and saying it wasn't you but the water contacting him.

I didn't start this thread with the assumption that physical discipline started with a right hook or a boot to the ass. There is a wide variety of physical contact that qualifies as physical discipline but falls short of criminal behavior. Beating the hell out of a kid is obviously uncalled for and illegal, unless he is in the act of attempting to kill someone.

Punching a 6 year old in the face is obviously over the line, but kicking a 15 year old in the ass might be quite appropriate. But smacking a 4 yr old's hand away and yelling "NO!" just as they're about to grab the handle of a pot of boiling water on your stove might just teach the kid that if they reach for something on the stove, they'll get hurt. Whether or not you explain it to them.

Or you're standing at the counter at a coffee shop and there's a little tray for spare change/pennies. Your kid reaches for the money, and you swat their hand as they touch the coins because they already know better that they don't take something that's not theirs. Pennies stay in the tray. Kid gets the message that if they do something they shouldn't, there will be consequences. This is not a "spanking" as some described, it is not "hitting" as others have described. It is a spontaneous act done as an attention getter, a corrective action to keep the kid in line. Coffee paid for, everyone happy.

Consider the alternative.
"Billy, put those pennies back"
"No"
"Billy, they're not your pennies, they belong to someone else, you can't take them, it's not right"
"Mine"
Clerk (not wanting to hear any  more of this): "Sir, that's ok, he can have them."
"Billy that's not your money, it's for people who need a penny or two to buy something"
"I want to buy something"
Clerk: "Sir, really, it's ok, he can take them!"
"Billy give me those pennies or you're not getting dessert tonight!!"
"NO!"
"Billy get over here and put those pennies back, you're making these people wait! If you don't bring them back here right now.. I'm going to count to three. One.... Two... Three... Ok that's it Billy. No dessert for a week, AND no TV!"
"Waaaahhh WHaaaAHHH NOO WAahhh!" Father wrestles pennies from Billy's hand, puts back in counter tray. (<ok this part IS physical. I had to put an end to this story somehow)
To Clerk: "Sorry he doesn't know not to take things that aren't his"
Clerk: "Bye. Next time you want coffee, there's a Starbuck's right around the corner."
12 customers in line: "(&&#@(*&^^@)#^^@(&$_$&!)^#^(@#&^(*&!)&^$#^$(_)(#*"
Billy, exiting the store: "I want a happy meal"
"No it's not lunch time yet"
"I want a haaaaapppyyyyyy meeeeeaaaaaaaal!"
Door closes behind the two...
npd233, third in line at the counter, "WTF was with that, who's in charge there?"
Clerk, to npd233: "The usual, medium mocha?"
npd233: "Yep, thanks. $2.83? Hmm I think I might have a few pennies here somewhere...

Billy????"

Quoted: www.maddox.xmission.com/beat.html

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't bring myself to do physical punishment.  I don't look down on those that do, but I just can't do it. That being said I love time out, no TV, no Video games, no anything.  I have been know to take my nephew and toss him into a cold shower with his cloths on after he hit my wife.  That pretty much took care of that situation. I'd say that pretty much qualifies as physical It was not an actual toss.  More like open the door place him in shower and turn on cold water. Either way you view it, it's still a physical act, and falls within your right as a parent (or uncle, if his parents allow you that authority) to subject your child (nephew) to it. You weren't putting him in there to clean him off. You put him there as a consequence of hitting his aunt. If you'd done that to a stranger, they'd have you arrested for battery. That's like pointing a garden hose at him and saying it wasn't you but the water contacting him.

Ok I see your point.  But I will put it this way there was no physical damage.

Quoted: ...there was a group of much older boys...trying to teach me how to jump a ramp.

Sweet.  

Quoted: Before they can understand language there is no point in spanking as they will not understand why their parents are hitting them.

I have to disagree with you here.  Before they understand language they are akin to very smart dogs or average chimpanzees - they will only understand fear, discomfort, and pain.  Even house pets understand punishment and will refrain from behavior they have associated with that punishment.  Because children can understand reason and abstract thinking as the get older is why you should not need to spank them after they understand things like time-outs and suspension of priveleges.

I got limited spankings as a child and even "swats" a few times in high school and have no spanking fetishes; I'm male so maybe that only works on females.  

Quoted: And go ahead and swat them while in diapers. It's extra padding. You're swatting to get their attention, not inflict pain.

I'm glad someone made this point before I got to the end, but I will still get attacked for my prospective choice of 'paddle'.  It will be an 18 inch long section of 2 1/2 inch fire hose.  Now if you are a Pollywog or don't know what that is then you don't need to comment because you have no frame of reference.
The purposes of this choice of implement are these:

1) The rubber inside of the hose makes an audible slapping sound like a belt when it smacks together

2) The nylon outside provides enough padding that they don't really hurt.

3) The size and unfamiliarity of the item looks intimidating and will quickly get the point across and I may never have to actually swing it.

I crawled around on my hands and knees on a flight deck for 4 hours while being smacked on the ass almost constantly by 100 or so of these fire hose sections and suffered no bruises and very little pain - I could sit just fine.

A few people have mentioned the explanation part - this is integral or Zen's prospective honeys might be created.  

I saw a prime example of what no corporal punishment brings about, last week. I was at my local Navy Hospital, getting my blood drawn for a forklift physical. I was sitting in the waiting area, and I saw a PO3 obviously loosing a battle of wills with her male child. She was telling him to leave, and he was defiantly standing there with his arms crossed, doing what he pleased. She must have told him "Let's go!" about a dozen times, then did the "countdown from 5" bit. When none of that worked, she went in there and grabbed him by the arm and dragged him out. He jerked out of her hand after about two steps and glared at her, whereupon she meekly started with verbal compliance attempts.

When last seen, she was chasing him down the hallway.

This kid has been winning the battle of wills for a good while, I would say, because he was about nine or ten years old. He was almost as big as his mom.

I sooooo wanted to go over and introduce myself.

If I had pulled soething like that, at that age, heh, the consequences would have been dire. My parents make it very clear exactly who was in charge, from as far back as I can remember.

I'll settle this once and for all.....

Were our kids better behaved when spanking was the norm

Or

Are our kids better behaved now that spanking is not the norm?

I think the answear is pretty clear.

I never had the need or desire to inflict physical pain upon my children.

Quoted: 49thvirginiainfantry.com/belt.jpg Always worked around our house.

I was told this past week by an Oakland county Sheffifs deputy that it is now illegal in MI to belt your child. I for one think that this is proposterous. I will be using the belt on my future kids for sure. I know it put the fear in me, which is good because a misbehaving young me could have grown up into a misbehaving 6'6" 225lb. inmate.

Jeez, I never really got a traditional spank. I either got a swift slap to the back of the leg, a cuban "cocotasso" (a quick, non-painful slap to the back of the head, usually when I said a bad word), the "chancleta" (flip-flop sandal), and my dad wouldnt belt me but he would make that noise with the belt to make it snap.

As for verbal, a nice one or two word shout from my dad would make me shut up. One of his favorites was "Who do you think you are talking to?!?" and "Shaddup!".

That was about it.

Quoted: I'll settle this once and for all..... Were our kids better behaved when spanking was the norm Or Are our kids better behaved now that spanking is not the norm? I think the answear is pretty clear.

DING DING DING DING DING! Winner!

Spank your kids.  "Timeouts", "I'm gonna count to 3" etc. are bullshit.  And whoever said that by spanking kids, you're teaching them that they can get take a spanking in return for doing something wrong?  They can take a "timeout" for doing something wrong too.  Same situation.  I'm all for grounding, taking privelidges away, etc. once they get older.  But a spank on the ass (or hand, or whatever) ain't gonna kill your kid.  They may grow up not liking you, but they'll love you.  When they turn out to be good adults, they'll thank you.  

Edit:  A good yelling at works too

i know that the yellow Hot Wheels track seemed to work on me
of course they probably seen how good it worked when me and my brother would whip each other with it.
Nothing like 1/32 scale race track across your ass to get your attention

I have spanked my son with my hand since he was old enough to understand what yes & no means.
What really suprizes me is that I haven't had to spank him since my wife left us over 2 months ago. Makes me relize how much family dynamics affect children. Just things like my wife allowing my son to fragrently break my rules when I wasn't present to inforce them. Crazy woman! I told her many times she was supposed to back me up, just like I backed her up with rules & such.

Anyway were past the 2 month mark & 0 spankings for my now 7 yr old son.

Quoted: I'm all for spaking. It has its place and uses. I've had to swat my little ones across the fanny on more than one occaision, and it has ALWAYS gotten their attention. That said, one swat is enough, and I always follow it up (one the point has been made) with a tender lesson of "Do you see why you have to obey Daddy?" Whoever came up with the line, "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" was absolutely right, BTW...

I agree 100%
I wish I was this articulate and concise.

We have three kids: 5 yrs, 3 yrs, and 10 months.

We started applying the "spanky butt" when they started to crawl (with increasing levels of force, never exceeding anything that would result in anything more than a temporary stinging sensation) ... we do count to "3" also. However, if we get to "3", there is ALWAYS a spanking. Here is a clue. Our oldest has not had a spanking in over a year and nor had we needed to "count". He is obedient but is also a risk taker and speaks his mind. We always correct or punish the little things. Our middle child needs very little disipline... she looks up to her older brother as a role model. However, she does try to test limits and we let her know how far she can go. The baby, is getting ready to start walking and has been learing defiance ever since he began to crawl, perhaps even earlier. My wife and I have noticed that we are much quicker to correct the baby than we were our older children...my wife even corrected him verbally back during breast feeding (a few months ago), i.e. "hey, don't bite that!" in contrast with our first child, my wife would have (and did) bear the pain of "bad nursing etiquette".

The smotherer just wont quit....

(my email to him after his above email) there is a major difference between discipline and abuse, and for the record not raising your kids with any respect for anythign is neglect. (his smothering duh/dim side))  I appreciate your thoughts, but where does respect result from beating?  On the contrary, my son, until recently, was an honor student, and in general is pretty well focused.  No problems. Never rasied a hand to him.  I try to keep him occupied and pay attention to his life.  Is this less than manly for you?

Wonder who he/she will vote for.....

Yep, children should fear their parents. No, not in the traditional meaning of "fear" but in the same sense that Christians fear God.  "Fear" maning a respect for, a certainty of punishment when rules are violated.

I ALWAYS make sure that my kids know why they are being spanked and I make sure that they know that their mother and I punish them because we love them.

Worked for me, works for my kids.

my parents used spanking, but my dad often did it more out of anger, than for something we really deserved it for.  to this day i'm still pissed about some ofthe times i got it.  granted, there was a lot of shit i did that i never got in trouble for, that i probably deserved to get whaacked for, but the point is that it's easy to go verboard weith spanking.

in all honesty the lecture i got when i was caught shoplifting was the most effective punishment i ever got.  never did it again.  the spankings never seemd to stick.  however, as an adult i now have the desire to spank all of my girlfriends when they are naughty (or heck, just for the hell of it).  i'm pretty sure this has a lot to do with crappy parenting on my dads part.  

a lot of my friends hated my dad, and they never even saw his really bad side, lol (however, my brother could tell some stories that would make you cringe with embarrassment over the shit my dad did.).  he's mellowed over the years, but he still pisses me off sometimes.

mom was actually a much better disciplinarian than dad was.  she actually runs a day care and has been taking care of kids full time for about 35 years or so.  the most effective technique i've seen her use is a quick tug on the short hairs to bring an unruly kid to heel.  it doesn't take but a little tug, and really gets thier attention.  this is a wondeful technique for the store as it's  almost invisible unless you're watching very carefully.

i will probably use a mild amount of spanking on my kids, but i think the main thing is not to do it when you're angry.  it's way too easy to really let the kid have it.

Quoted: The smotherer just wont quit.... (my email to him after his above email) there is a major difference between discipline and abuse, and for the record not raising your kids with any respect for anythign is neglect. (his smothering duh/dim side))  I appreciate your thoughts, but where does respect result from beating?  On the contrary, my son, until recently, was an honor student, and in general is pretty well focused.  No problems. Never rasied a hand to him.  I try to keep him occupied and pay attention to his life.  Is this less than manly for you? Wonder who he/she will vote for..... home.earthlink.net/~junk0mai1/KerrysGang.jpg

These kind of parents always think their kids are cute while being obnoxious and will always support them no matter how much in the wrong they are. See it all the time and I am out of the rooms with these families faster than you can say, blow me.
Decency seems an obsolete concept with them as does hard work, self-reliance, and responsibility. It's all about "me, me, meeeee...!". Fortunately, there are other things which impact on a child's behavior, like maybe getting their ass kicked by another 3rd grader.