What is the weapon that has been in service with the military for the longest amount of time..... - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What is the weapon that has been in service with the military for the longest amount of time..... (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 10/24/2004 1:44:34 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
M 1911 to 1985

Nope, take a look at page one. The 1911 still keeps on ticking.

Several special operations units carry the M1911 in various forms.

It's no longer a regular issue weapon.

Plus if you are talking about all the redesigned rail equipped weapons, I think it's kinda like saying the jeep is still in sevice, but it's now a HMMV. Signifigant changes make it a different weapon.

Posted: 10/24/2004 4:06:32 PM EDT

[#2]

Does the USMC still use the M-151? A few years ago it was still in limited use.

I think I read a report somewhere that the jeeps were being used by both sides (on a limited basis).

Posted: 10/24/2004 4:31:49 PM EDT

[#3]

OK for all of you that missed it the answer is.....M2 MA DUECE.The 1911 is no longer standard issue.M9 is.

Posted: 10/24/2004 4:33:19 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Come on fellas, the 1911 has been in service a decade more than the venerable M2.

USMC Force Recon, certain Army SF Groups have them still and the one group of operators that doesnt exist....

+1 for the 1911...

Posted: 10/24/2004 4:34:42 PM EDT

[#5]

The brain.

Posted: 10/24/2004 4:35:32 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
M 1911 to 1985

Nope, take a look at page one. The 1911 still keeps on ticking.

Several special operations units carry the M1911 in various forms.

It's no longer a regular issue weapon.

Plus if you are talking about all the redesigned rail equipped weapons, I think it's kinda like saying the jeep is still in sevice, but it's now a HMMV. Signifigant changes make it a different weapon.

Combat_Diver drew a 1911A1 from an armory in Iraq two weeks ago.

Posted: 10/24/2004 4:40:54 PM EDT

[#7]

The .50Cal machinegun is the only remaining weapon in standard use.

Posted: 10/24/2004 4:56:34 PM EDT

[#8]

I think the original question would have best been worded: What item in the US Military arsenal has seen the longest continuous service as a standard issue weapon?

The answer, then, would be the M2HB Machine Gun.

The 1911 has not seen continuous service and is no longer standard issue. Even the units that have them now did not for a time.

Oh, and sorry Marines, but that sword is about as much a weapon as the ceremonial crap the rest of us have. If they are actually forged of quality steel and can still take a beating, I wll stand corrected, but I am pretty sure they are crappy stainless steel reproductions of weapons, not weapons themselves.

There is a manual of arms for the Army officer's saber, too - but it is not a weapon.

Posted: 10/24/2004 5:33:50 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
M 1911 to 1985

Nope, take a look at page one. The 1911 still keeps on ticking.

Several special operations units carry the M1911 in various forms.

It's no longer a regular issue weapon.

Huh? Define "regular issue"

The USMC Meu-soc pistol is "Regular Issue."

Posted: 10/24/2004 5:35:17 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
OK for all of you that missed it the answer is.....M2 MA DUECE.The 1911 is no longer standard issue.M9 is.

There are more 1911's in use in the USMC than M2's

Posted: 10/24/2004 5:37:43 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I think the original question would have best been worded: What item in the US Military arsenal has seen the longest continuous service as a standard issue weapon?

The answer, then, would be the M2HB Machine Gun.

The 1911 has not seen continuous service and is no longer standard issue.

Just a the M2 is only issued to heavy machineguners in the weapon's companys, and vehicle mounts, the 1911 is only issued to Force recon and the MEU's.

Posted: 10/24/2004 5:39:44 PM EDT

[#12]

Add the M9 to the list of soon to be gone POS - can't wait to get our Sigs here.......(standard issue for us - soon)

Posted: 10/24/2004 5:40:02 PM EDT

[#13]

The 1911 is no longer standard issue!!M9 is you should know that people.The answer is M2 Ma Duece.

Posted: 10/24/2004 5:40:36 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
M 1911 to 1985

Nope, take a look at page one. The 1911 still keeps on ticking.

Several special operations units carry the M1911 in various forms.

It's no longer a regular issue weapon.

Huh? Define "regular issue"

The USMC Meu-soc pistol is "Regular Issue."

And how long has the MEU-SOC been in the inventory?

Posted: 10/24/2004 5:46:50 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
M 1911 to 1985

Nope, take a look at page one. The 1911 still keeps on ticking.

Several special operations units carry the M1911 in various forms.

It's no longer a regular issue weapon.

Huh? Define "regular issue"

The USMC Meu-soc pistol is "Regular Issue."

And how long has the MEU-SOC been in the inventory?

the MEU-SOC is built on frames that predate WW2.

Posted: 10/24/2004 5:55:41 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

the MEU-SOC is built on frames that predate WW2.

If it is called a MEU-SOC, then it isn't a 1911A1.

If it isn't issued USMC wide, then it isn't a general issue weapon.

When they added features to the M48 tank, it was reclassed as M60.

Same thing here. Unless it meets the original specs of a 1911A1, with except for MINOR changes, it isn't a 1911A1.

If it has different sights, guide rod system, barrel bushing, grip saftey, slide serrations, that a 1911A1, then it is a different weapon.

What you're saying, is like saying M-4's were issued in Vietnam, except the barrels were longer, thinner, and the buttstocks didn't retract.

Posted: 10/24/2004 5:57:53 PM EDT

[#17]

The M2 was redesigned into the M2HB in 1934. Different model.

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:00:05 PM EDT

[#18]

HB for heavy barrel?If so how is that a major change?And the frickin answer is Ma Duece.Nuff said.

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:00:37 PM EDT

[#19]

Hell.. The M2 design of 1921 is not the exact one we use today, nor is the M1911 of Doughboy fame even the same one his kid carried in WW2, unless it was an oldie-but-goodie from arsenal stock.

If cartridges count and country of origin is unimportant, the answer is the 7.62x54, with 123-some years of service. It's been altered some through the years too though.

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:04:50 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
HB for heavy barrel?If so how is that a major change?And the frickin answer is Ma Duece.Nuff said.

Heavier quick change barrel.

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:10:01 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
The M2 was redesigned into the M2HB in 1934. Different model.

I don't think the receiver changed, just the barrel.

Still, even using 1934 as your start date, you still have over 70 years of continuous service. Nothing else comes close that is still in use.

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:15:22 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
M 1911 to 1985

Nope, take a look at page one. The 1911 still keeps on ticking.

Several special operations units carry the M1911 in various forms.

It's no longer a regular issue weapon.

Huh? Define "regular issue"

The USMC Meu-soc pistol is "Regular Issue."

Actually, it's 'special issue'

'Regular issue' = standard for 'non-special' troops...

The M-9 is still the 'Regular Issue' sidearm for the USMC.

1911s are special-issue-only...

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:28:30 PM EDT

[#23]

IIRC all the new M2 are actully FN M3HB's(?)

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:30:21 PM EDT

[#24]

M2 MA DUECE

I watched "MAIL CALL" today,too!

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:31:06 PM EDT

[#25]

www.fnhusa.com/contents/mg_m3p.htm

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:31:29 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
IIRC all the new M2 are actully FN M3HB's(?)

Last I heard the M2 was supplied by Saco Defense.

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:31:55 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
IIRC all the new M2 are actully FN M3HB's(?)

Perhaps you are thinking about the Objective Crew Served Weapon? Not fielded yet.

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:32:35 PM EDT

[#28]

Thank you for watching Mail Call.I was getting outnumbered here.I think.

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:32:52 PM EDT

[#29]

im not sure but FN does make the M2 as well

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:38:36 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The Marine Officers sword. The second is the Marine NCO's sword.

I don't know for sure but I'm guessing this man is correct.

The Marine Officer's sword is now issued primarily as an Historical, Decorative part of the Uniform.

I will consider the Marine Sword as a military weapon ONLY when I see the USMC Training Great Proficiency in its use... It is an ISSUED weapon, but not a weapon in SERVICE/USE.

How many Marines in Iraq are carrying a Marine Sabre into combat? NONE THAT I'VE SEEN.

The truth is: Most Marines do not know how to proficiently use their Sabres in a real bout. Truly sad, IMHO, as I feel they should still be trained in the use of such a weapon.

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:39:47 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC all the new M2 are actully FN M3HB's(?)

Last I heard the M2 was supplied by Saco Defense.

I thought M2's on aircraft, were being replaced by M3's.

M2's are still on tracked/wheeled vehicles.

EDIT-

M3's may also be used in ADA type systems like the Avenger.

Posted: 10/24/2004 6:53:17 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC all the new M2 are actully FN M3HB's(?)

Last I heard the M2 was supplied by Saco Defense.

I thought M2's on aircraft, were being replaced by M3's.

M2's are still on tracked/wheeled vehicles.

EDIT-

M3's may also be used in ADA type systems like the Avenger.

Now you have me intrigued - two years in TRADOC, and I am out of touch. I need to get back in a line unit, BAD.

Posted: 10/24/2004 7:00:31 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC all the new M2 are actully FN M3HB's(?)

Last I heard the M2 was supplied by Saco Defense.

I thought M2's on aircraft, were being replaced by M3's.

M2's are still on tracked/wheeled vehicles.

EDIT-

M3's may also be used in ADA type systems like the Avenger.

I only have heard about the M2HB. I don't know crap about the M3.

Posted: 10/24/2004 7:01:21 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC all the new M2 are actully FN M3HB's(?)

Last I heard the M2 was supplied by Saco Defense.

I thought M2's on aircraft, were being replaced by M3's.

M2's are still on tracked/wheeled vehicles.

EDIT-

M3's may also be used in ADA type systems like the Avenger.

Now you have me intrigued - two years in TRADOC, and I am out of touch. I need to get back in a line unit, BAD.

Click on the link, the M3 list a rate fo fire of 950-1,100 rpm. That's a lot of .50.............. The M3M is supposed to be able to fire a 600 round burst

Posted: 10/24/2004 7:04:52 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC all the new M2 are actully FN M3HB's(?)

Last I heard the M2 was supplied by Saco Defense.

The M2HB and M3 are 2 different 50cal MGs

The M3 is a higher ROF, light-barrel weapon based on the M2 design, originally designed as an aircraft armament around the time of the Korean war (where faster enemy planes required a higher ROF to prevent them from flying between shots)... But it's internally different enough to NOT be a 'M2A2'...

The M2 is, what it allways has been - a large, slow firing heavy MG

Posted: 10/24/2004 7:06:58 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
The Marine Officer's sword is now issued primarily as an Historical, Decorative part of the Uniform.

I will consider the Marine Sword as a military weapon ONLY when I see the USMC Training Great Proficiency in its use... It is an ISSUED weapon, but not a weapon in SERVICE/USE.

How many Marines in Iraq are carrying a Marine Sabre into combat? NONE THAT I'VE SEEN.

The truth is: Most Marines do not know how to proficiently use their Sabres in a real bout. Truly sad, IMHO, as I feel they should still be trained in the use of such a weapon.

The Marine Officers' sword is not an issue item, it is bought by all Marine Officers while attending The Basic School. Also the Mameluke Sword was abandoned by Marine Officers in the Civil war in favor of the current NCO swords because of the heavier blade of the NCO sword.

The only training in the sword is the sword manual out of the out of the drill manual. Swords for all intents and purposes lost usefulness as battle field weapons when repeating arms were massed fielded. Although there is a photo of a Lt carrying his on his back during the assault on Hue City, I don't think anyone has been stabbed with one in over a 100 years.

Quoted:
Oh, and sorry Marines, but that sword is about as much a weapon as the ceremonial crap the rest of us have. If they are actually forged of quality steel and can still take a beating, I wll stand corrected, but I am pretty sure they are crappy stainless steel reproductions of weapons, not weapons themselves.

There is a manual of arms for the Army officer's saber, too - but it is not a weapon.

Depends on how much you want to pay for it, the standard 700 dollar sword most Lts buy is a dress only sword. But a few I know either spent the approx 3000 for a real one that can be used to fight with or inherited one from their fathers (more than likely their father did the same). But there are a few out there that are real swords.

Posted: 10/24/2004 9:14:10 PM EDT

[#37]

My point isn't so much in the craftsmanship of the sword...

What I think makes the Marine Sabre a good weapon is THE TRAINING. Without it, it's just a hunk of metal.

A military manual can in no way match professional sabre training from a reputable, professional instructor. Without the training, the sabre is not a weapon at all, IMHO.

The weapon that has been in the service with the military for the longest amoung ot time would have to be TRAINING.

Posted: 10/25/2004 4:30:10 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
This could go either way... US Military? Firearm? M1911, the M2 was adopted in 1921(It used to be the M1921). The 1911 is still in use in some parts of the US Military. If it's another military, the Brown Bess maybe? That was used for a really long time

Well, technically speaking the army stopped issued m1911's and started issuing m1911A1 pistols in 1926. Thus making the m2 heavy machingun which as you point out was designated in 1921 5 years OLDER than the currently (limited) issued m1911A1 pistol.

the M1911 and the M1911A1 are completely different pistols as far as the military is concerned and i don't think anyone is likely to be pulling an m1911 out of inventory anytime soon.

Posted: 10/25/2004 4:39:20 AM EDT

[#39]

The Mameluke sword.

ETA: Beat me to it.

Quoted:
The Marine Officers sword. The second is the Marine NCO's sword.

Posted: 10/25/2004 4:45:22 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
The Marine Officers sword. The second is the Marine NCO's sword.

We have a winner.

Posted: 10/25/2004 4:53:23 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
A military manual can in no way match professional sabre training from a reputable, professional instructor. Without the training, the sabre is not a weapon at all, IMHO.

The weapon that has been in the service with the military for the longest amoung ot time would have to be TRAINING.

Because sabers are useless on the battle field, the spirit of the blade, élan of steel and the Grandmaison theory of war was the doctrine of the French military from the early 1900's till about half way through the 1st World War. It cost millions of French their lives, Ironically Col Loius de Grandmaison died leading an assault saber in hand trying to prove his theory.

Posted: 10/25/2004 4:55:18 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Well, technically speaking the army stopped issued m1911's and started issuing m1911A1 pistols in 1926. Thus making the m2 heavy machingun which as you point out was designated in 1921 5 years OLDER than the currently (limited) issued m1911A1 pistol.

the M1911 and the M1911A1 are completely different pistols as far as the military is concerned and i don't think anyone is likely to be pulling an m1911 out of inventory anytime soon.

If I remember right the current version of the M2HB was finalized in 1932.

Posted: 10/26/2004 5:54:20 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Quoted:

the MEU-SOC is built on frames that predate WW2.

If it is called a MEU-SOC, then it isn't a 1911A1.

If it isn't issued USMC wide, then it isn't a general issue weapon.

No weapon is issued USMC wide. Not even the M16A2.

Posted: 10/26/2004 6:03:53 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
M2 MA DUECE

I watched "MAIL CALL" today,too!

+1

Posted: 10/26/2004 6:04:50 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

the MEU-SOC is built on frames that predate WW2.

If it is called a MEU-SOC, then it isn't a 1911A1.

If it isn't issued USMC wide, then it isn't a general issue weapon.

No weapon is issued USMC wide. Not even the M16A2.

So there are entire units that don't have rifles? What happened to every Marine is a rifleman.

You know exactly what is meant by "general issue", stop trying to play word games.

Posted: 10/26/2004 8:56:54 AM EDT

[#46]

Sexually transmitted diseases

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What is the weapon that has been in service with the military for the longest amount of time..... (Page 2 of 2)

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