Quoted: "What do you get when you miultiply 6 by 9?" The sad thing is that some people here will consider THAT to make more sense than the Bible! hr

54?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The answer is 42. Accept it. But what is the question? We should ask the mice. What do you get when you multiply six by nine? ETA:  It figures that Zaphod would beat me to it.   Wouldn't this smiley be most appropriate?

You mean this one, right?

Ya'll just don't get it do ya'.  If the Creation story is a myth then that means that Adam and Eve were a myth. If that's the case then the fall of man and "original sin" are a myth and as such all of the blood letting of small animals in the OT and Christs sacrifice in the NT were uncalled for. Stay calm now, just taking it to it's logical conculsion, that's all. If you want to believe in the Bible that's cool but shouldn't something that you believe in have some kind of basis in fact, other wise why not just believe in Odin or Zeus, wouldn't that be the same difference?

Quoted: Science doesn't disprove God, it just explores more of his creation.  If science is how you justify disbelief in God, I feel sorry for you.  You are really missing the point.

+1

Quoted: Ya'll just don't get it do ya'.  If the Creation story is a myth then that means that Adam and Eve were a myth. If that's the case then the fall of man and "original sin" are a myth and as such all of the blood letting of small animals in the OT and Christs sacrifice in the NT were uncalled for. Stay calm now, just taking it to it's logical conculsion, that's all. If you want to believe in the Bible that's cool but shouldn't something that you believe in have some kind of basis in fact, other wise why not just believe in Odin or Zeus, wouldn't that be the same difference?

Think of it not so much as a myth, but a parable.  In other words, the actual events need not be true, but the message and lesson is very much true.

Ya'll just don't get it do ya'

No, unfortunately you just don't get it. But we'll pray for you.

r/s

Dan

Quoted: Ya'll just don't get it do ya' No, unfortunately you just don't get it. But we'll pray for you. r/s Dan

Don't you know, you are prey for me.

Quoted:  As best as they can tell ...]

They can't prove their POV.

I can't prove my POV.

BOTH work in the arena of faith.

Pick a side.

If I'm wrong, i lose nothing.

If they're wrong, they lose everything.

"He is no fool, who gives us that which he cannot keep, to gain that which he cannot lose."

Quoted: Don't you know, you are prey for me.

Hmmm, now you sound like a Muslim !

Quoted: Quoted: Ya'll just don't get it do ya' No, unfortunately you just don't get it. But we'll pray for you. r/s Dan Don't you know, you are prey for me.

934 west watauga avenue, johnson city TN - come on by anytime you feel like sorting out your place on the food chain. :)

all of you all are freakin stupid the BIBLE has had so many versions made of it now somehow some idiot decided the King James Version is correct........

How many of you rocket scientist relaize that there have some bibles that have several extra books to it???


Fools believe in the written word problem is that written word has been run down so many times that we all now must believ in the KJV....

Any of you care to elaborate and learn as to who actually changed the sabbath? and which bible Constantine cared for?

All of the people who exclaim, "Hey Mr. Christian, if creationism is true, how do you explain THIS?" fail to take one thing into account.  It is a basic tenet of Christian faith that God is omnipotent, all-powerful.  He can do anything.  Accepting that as a given, God could have created the entire universe and everyone in it last Tuesday, and you or I would never be able to tell the difference.  Why did God create the universe in the manner that he did?  I'll ask him when I go home and let you know (as long as you're allowed to receive long-distance calls "down there.")

Quoted: In Genesis we read that God created the Moon to rule the night and give us light, if this is true then why doesn't sicence back up this theory?  As best as they can tell a planet 1/2 the size of earth collided with our planet and merged with it, from this part of our planet was spit off into space and  formed our moon, so much for God creating it.

I think you answered your question within the question. Secondly, it ain't science, it's storytelling. They are inventing a story to fit thier perception of the facts, they are not replicating it under laboratory conditions. That is why it is called a "theory" (should be called "an uneducated guess"), and not law.

Quoted: Also, ya'll seem to think that things have been the same since the first day of creation, that nothing has changed, WRONG. Our moon is moving away from us 1.5" per year, that means that it was 83.3 yards closer to our planet when Christ walked the earth then it is now. It also means that in the future the moon will be further away and our rotation will slow even more so days will get longer.  So much for things not changing.  OK, flame away, give me your best shot.

88 yards. Wow, that's like 0.0000000000001% change (my guess) Wooo Hooo, that's a hell of a point you have there.

I think your initial 99.9% figure is far too high.

I'd be in the 0.1% anyway.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Ya'll just don't get it do ya' No, unfortunately you just don't get it. But we'll pray for you. r/s Dan Don't you know, you are prey for me. 934 west watauga avenue, johnson city TN - come on by anytime you feel like sorting out your place on the food chain. :)

Must be nice living in the same city as Widener's Reloading & Shooting Supply,Inc.  We've got squat for reloading here in Crossville.

P.S.
Nice CHRISTIAN attitude pard.LOL

Quoted: P.S. Nice CHRISTIAN attitude pard.LOL

Seems to me YOU threw the gauntlet down. He simply called you on it.

...or are you one of those non-Christians wh think Christians should allow themselves to be kicked around by non-Christians because that's what Christ wanted?

Arguing religion is pointless.

Quoted: Quoted: P.S. Nice CHRISTIAN attitude pard.LOL Seems to me YOU threw the gauntlet down. He simply called you on it. ...or are you one of those non-Christians wh think Christians should allow themselves to be kicked around by non-Christians because that's what Christ wanted?

I used to be Hardcore Christian but the more I learned about it and the more I saw how the modern Church doesn't even follow what their own Bible teaches the more I got sick of it. Another thing, why is it that Christians always seem to think that they're right and everyone else is wrong?  Who's to say that being a Pagan or a Buddist or some other religion isn't just as "right" as being a Christian. Just because the Bible tells you that it's right doesn't mean that it's right for everyone. This thread just helps to prove my point. I say something that questions your Christian believes and right away I'm the one that wrong, ever think that you, the Christian, my be wrong for a change.  You say you have faith that what you believe in is right, I can show you in your own Bible many things that Christians believe today that's not taught anywhere in the Bible.

Quoted: Nice CHRISTIAN attitude pard.LOL

Typical.

Bait people with a loaded question, then whine when you get a response.

If you can't deal with ALL the responses without whining like a schoolgirl, don;t start threads like this.

In other words, if you don;t want an answer, don;t ask the question.

Quoted: All of the people who exclaim, "Hey Mr. Christian, if creationism is true, how do you explain THIS?" fail to take one thing into account.  It is a basic tenet of Christian faith that God is omnipotent, all-powerful.  He can do anything.  Accepting that as a given, God could have created the entire universe and everyone in it last Tuesday, and you or I would never be able to tell the difference.  Why did God create the universe in the manner that he did?  I'll ask him when I go home and let you know (as long as you're allowed to receive long-distance calls "down there.")

Best post ever.............

well almost.

Quoted: I used to be Hardcore Christian but the more I learned about it and the more I saw how the modern Church doesn't even follow what their own Bible teaches the more I got sick of it. K]

You responsibility to God is NOT contingent on others action or inaction.

What is this "modern church" of what you speak??? My Bible indicates the church to be over 2,000 years old - minimum.

Quoted: Quoted: Nice CHRISTIAN attitude pard.LOL Typical. Bait people with a loaded question, then whine when you get a response. If you can't deal with ALL the responses without whining like a schoolgirl, don;t start threads like this. In other words, if you don;t want an answer, don;t ask the question.

Answers I'll take, threats to kick my ass I won't take. Nuff said.

Quoted: Answers I'll take, threats to kick my ass I won't take. Nuff said.

I read hsi post to be more an offer - to give you a beatin' if you were in search of one. Kinda like that Ebay auction for "one ass kicking - $995"

Quoted: Like I said, this is ment to stirr the pot and get ya'll to thinking. Too many people take what the Bible says as "Gospel" and never question anything that's written in the book. Wake up and think for yourselfs. The Bible has some very nice stories in it but to take it as fact just doesn't make any sense. Question what you've been taught and demand an explanation for what they tell you is "truth".

Your premises are completely wrong.

The Bible says that God made the heavens and the earth, meaning that things were NOT always as they are now. The Bible says NOTHING about HOW God created the heavens and the earth, merely that He did. God set order in the universe, but the Bible doesn't describe in intimate detail HOW He set that order.

Your questions do not cast doubt on the Bible. Your questions cast doubt as to whether or not you have ever read the Bible....

Quoted: [ Your questions do not cast doubt on the Bible. Your questions cast doubt as to whether or not you have ever read the Bible....

+1.

Funny how people bash the Bible, but NEVER actually quote the Bible.

They give their homespun paraphrase of something they heard.

Quoted: I used to be Hardcore Christian but the more I learned about it and the more I saw how the modern Church doesn't even follow what their own Bible teaches the more I got sick of it. Another thing, why is it that Christians always seem to think that they're right and everyone else is wrong?  Who's to say that being a Pagan or a Buddist or some other religion isn't just as "right" as being a Christian. Just because the Bible tells you that it's right doesn't mean that it's right for everyone. This thread just helps to prove my point. I say something that questions your Christian believes and right away I'm the one that wrong, ever think that you, the Christian, my be wrong for a change.  You say you have faith that what you believe in is right, I can show you in your own Bible many things that Christians believe today that's not taught anywhere in the Bible.

Frank, I remember you being a hardcore Christian.

My question to you now is who were you following Jesus Christ or the people following Him?

Quoted: Most Christians(99.9% of them at least) believe that the Word of God, the Bible is infailable and perfect. From Genesis to Revelations it is total truth with no errors.

I think  your estimate is extremely high.  Only fundamentalist take each part word for word. Instead of trying to pick apart nuiances, why not try to read the message as a whole.

Furthermore - most people agree that  Genesis is more symbolic of  what happened - and not a literal one. Even those who are "creationists" acknowledge that a day isnt a literal day.

Of course I wont get in much deeper as arguing this shit with people on line is pointless.

But I did want to point out that if you do think its 99% - then your views of an average christain are skewed.

Who's to say that being a Pagan or a Buddist or some other religion isn't just as "right" as being a Christian.

God and the Christ Jesus for starters.

Quoted: Quoted: 1st off - who says science is right?  They thought the Earth was flat at one time. 2ndly - God can use whatever method of creation he likes.  If he wants to create the Earth by smashing pieces of debris together, he can. 3rdly - God created everything in 6 days.  Who's to say his day is 24 hours long? The CHURCH held that the earth was flat and even percuted Galileo for saying otherwise.  If it was created in 6 days then on the 4th day when the earth was hit so that the moon would be created from the impact then all of the plants that God created on the 3rd. day would have been killed off. Genesis Creation Story is just that, a nice STORY or should I use the word Myth.

Frank ---

If you can provide video showing the worlds being created and the fabric of life evolving, I will abandon my beliefs. But do not expect me to take the words of fallible men who have never been past the moon yet remain convinced that they have the mysteries of the universe figured out.

Until they can come up with a unified field theory, define the boarders of the universe, answer to perfection the mystery of existence, and explain EVERY SINGLE phenomena inside the universe, I will stick to my "myths".

Your claim is based on the perfection of science. There are a lot of men in science who went to the grave thinking completely wrong things, things we now know to be false.

I agree with Frank,

To those who say "how can you talk about the bible without studying it?"  I ask how can you talk about religion if you have not taken a course in comparative religion?.

Apes evolved from creationists

A lot of Christians think it's time for another Crusade.

Quoted: The answer is 42. Accept it.

The agreed upon question - "How many roads must a man walk down?"

Lamsa Bible - Most accurate?
Try - "Idioms of the Bible Explained"

The Bible is a human artifact, so it is not perfect, just as we are not.
Religion is a matter of belief, not fact.  

Have fun - "Don't Panic!"

PS - It wouldn't *BE* any fun if we could figure it out

I think this is as close as I'm going to get to being a "Christian".

Gnosticism:Some may question my inclusion of Gnosticism as a Pagan Tradition, but in truth it's tenets align more with the Pagan path than the Christian one. At least that's how it seems to me. I may be wrong but this is my page so...

"Gnosticism is a concept of spiritual experience which has its roots in many religious practices and is not restricted to Christianity. It is also found in the Kabbalah of Judaism, the philosophy of NeoPlatonism, and in modern Iraq a small sect of peasants called Mandaeans (their word for 'knowers') still survives today. It is a belief system which considers the 'spiritual' world to be the real world and this material world but a product of the negative use of that spirituality. This is an obvious oversimplification and I ask your kind indulgence. Approach it openly and perhaps you will find your viewpoints amazingly expanded"
"The word "gnosis" is derived from the Greek language, and means "knowledge of an intuitive nature; the intuitive comprehension of spiritual truths." Gnosis is a knowledge that cannot be arrived at through books or lectures, but rather through one's own direct experience of reality. Gnosis is often referred to as knowledge of the heart, in contrast to knowledge that is obtained through the use of the intellect.

The Gnostic teachings contain systems and exercises through which every aspect of the teachings can be personally verified by each individual. Gnosis is not just theoretical, but one hundred percent practical. Through direct experience we surpass the boundaries of belief and disbelief, since both lead to ignorance. Rather than believing or disbelieving, accepting or rejecting, the Gnostic personally verifies in a direct manner the validity of the concepts he or she is studying. This personal verification leads to true knowledge and comprehension, not merely an intellectual or theoretical understanding of the teachings. Through Gnosis one personally learns to experience reality directly, quell the battle between doubt and belief, and comes to KNOW the inner TRUTH."

Quoted: Quoted: All of the people who exclaim, "Hey Mr. Christian, if creationism is true, how do you explain THIS?" fail to take one thing into account.  It is a basic tenet of Christian faith that God is omnipotent, all-powerful.  He can do anything.  Accepting that as a given, God could have created the entire universe and everyone in it last Tuesday, and you or I would never be able to tell the difference.  Why did God create the universe in the manner that he did?  I'll ask him when I go home and let you know (as long as you're allowed to receive long-distance calls "down there.") Best post ever............. well almost.

I do my humble best (many people would say that my best is very humble.)

Quoted: Most Christians(99.9% of them at least) believe that the Word of God, the Bible is infailable and perfect. From Genesis to Revelations it is total truth with no errors.  OK, explain this to me if you can.  In Genesis we read that God created the Moon to rule the night and give us light, if this is true then why doesn't sicence back up this theory?  As best as they can tell a planet 1/2 the size of earth collided with our planet and merged with it, from this part of our planet was spit off into space and  formed our moon, so much for God creating it. Also, ya'll seem to think that things have been the same since the first day of creation, that nothing has changed, WRONG. Our moon is moving away from us 1.5" per year, that means that it was 83.3 yards closer to our planet when Christ walked the earth then it is now. It also means that in the future the moon will be further away and our rotation will slow even more so days will get longer.  So much for things not changing.  OK, flame away, give me your best shot.

That assumes that the conditions which currently exist and are causing the moon to move away from the earth have always existed.  Pretty ballsy assumption since we haven't been measuring stuff like that all too long.  Those kind of assumptions brought us predictions of a global deep freeze in the 1970s and predictions of global warming the the 1980s and beyond.

Where do you get the idea that "99.9% (at least)" of Christians believe that the Bible is infallible and perfect.  I happen to be one of those folks, but judging by the people that I talk to I am in the minority.  If you are talking about a strictly literal interpretation that number shrinks even more, but nothing like a wild generalization to shore up a shaky argument.

PS - when I create a meatloaf I jam a bunch of different stuff together and some of it doesn't make it in the pan.  I created it to feed myself, but not forever.

Quoted: Most Christians(99.9% of them at least) believe that the Word of God, the Bible is infailable and perfect. From Genesis to Revelations it is total truth with no errors.  OK, explain this to me if you can.  In Genesis we read that God created the Moon to rule the night and give us light, if this is true then why doesn't sicence back up this theory?  As best as they can tell a planet 1/2 the size of earth collided with our planet and merged with it, from this part of our planet was spit off into space and  formed our moon, so much for God creating it. Also, ya'll seem to think that things have been the same since the first day of creation, that nothing has changed, WRONG. Our moon is moving away from us 1.5" per year, that means that it was 83.3 yards closer to our planet when Christ walked the earth then it is now. It also means that in the future the moon will be further away and our rotation will slow even more so days will get longer.  So much for things not changing.  OK, flame away, give me your best shot.

And 10 years from now "science" will give you a totally new explaination for the existance of the moon and you'll accept that as "science" as well.
Now who is being naive ? Me taking the word of God, Or you taking the word of the scientist with the wettest ink .

Pretty arrogant to assume God will prove himself to you.
If I were you I'd hold my breath until he did. and he will.

I would not say that 99.9% of Christians say that the bible is to be taken word for word. Alot of the scriptures are imho to be taken theoretically. Many Christians will tell you that it is not for us to say exactly how and why God does what he does. We trust him, because he is all knowing and all powerful. He is God, who are we to make petty remarks, and question his reasoning? We cannot speak for him, and will one day have all of the answers once we have died.

Where I live Christians take the Bible as the truth wether it makes logical sense or not.  If the Bible says that God created everything in 6 days then they take it as 6 literal 24hr. days. No evolution, no natural selection, nothing. All that's here is just as God made it in the begining.  No room for myth, no room for stories, what's in the Bible is cold, hard facts.  

You are making the common mistake of judging man's interpretation God's word as God's word. You have to remember that all men are fallible.

Read "The Science Of God" and "Genesis And The Big Bang" by GERALD SCHROEDER.

These books will answer your questions and keep your cake hole shut.

You answered your own question "best as they can tell".  All depends on who you want to worship God or a Scientist.

Quoted: You answered your own question "best as they can tell".  All depends on who you want to worship God or a Scientist.

Amen.

You can HAVE the ideas and philosophies of men.

This much I know: Christians have been fed to lions, burned at stakes, torn apart by horses, and faced other horrors never fighting back or getting glory for themselves because they believed in the Glory of God.

Numerous forces have tried to kill the faith throughout the years, none succeeding in stamping out the truth. Men faced death just to be able to translate the Bible into English.

And even after all the assaults, all the pseudo-science, all the attacks of the enemy, Christ is still being glorified in more and more across the world. Now even muslims are being steadily converted and abandoning Islam for the Glory of Christ.

I have seen God's power for myself. I have heard His voice. Just a couple of weeks ago a woman was wheeled into one of our services with mishapen joints from a cripling disease. She PUSHED her wheelchair out of that church with PERFECTLY HEALED joints. The doctor can't explain it. People don't just go from being so deformed they cannot walk to perfection in the span of a couple of hours. It DOES NOT happen in nature.

But nothing is impossible to nature's God, and to the Christ who was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities! The chastisement of our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes, we are healed!

I have seen a man given the prognosis of terminal cancer take communion every day and come back to the doctor only to find that the cancer that was all over his body is now completely gone.

Mock, scoff, ridicule, and hold fast to man's imperfect understanding of the universe we live in as your sole hope.

But that does not change who He is. He is King of kings, Lord of lords, and there is no other name under heaven and given among men whereby we must be saved. Reject it if you wish, but you have heard the truth, and now your soul is in your own hands. I have witnessed of Him and I am now innocent of your blood.

Quoted: Where I live Christians take the Bible as the truth wether it makes logical sense or not.  If the Bible says that God created everything in 6 days then they take it as 6 literal 24hr. days. No evolution, no natural selection, nothing. All that's here is just as God made it in the begining.  No room for myth, no room for stories, what's in the Bible is cold, hard facts.

I didn't realize we were neighbors.  

Either the Bible is 100% true, or its useless fairy tales.

Pick a side.

Quoted: Quoted: Where I live Christians take the Bible as the truth wether it makes logical sense or not.  If the Bible says that God created everything in 6 days then they take it as 6 literal 24hr. days. No evolution, no natural selection, nothing. All that's here is just as God made it in the begining.  No room for myth, no room for stories, what's in the Bible is cold, hard facts.   I didn't realize we were neighbors.   Either the Bible is 100% true, or its useless fairy tales. Pick a side.

And that's exsactly my point. The evidence points to planetary collision for the reason behind the formation of our moon, no God needed, as such if God didn't "make" the moon but two planets hitting each other did then what else in the Bible is "myth"?  Christians around here take Adam and Eve as real people that were created by God but are they or are they more myth, if so then wouldn't that make the "fall of man" a myth and "original sin" a myth. Why would there be a need for a saviour if they're no "original sin"?  So who was the Christ and why did he come?  Do you get where I'm coming from with this, it's either 100% true right down to God creating fleas and ants or it's all a myth and if it's a myth then why should I follow your myth and not a myth of my own. Why do Christians push their religion as being "THE" religion when they're all myths and ledgens.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where I live Christians take the Bible as the truth wether it makes logical sense or not.  If the Bible says that God created everything in 6 days then they take it as 6 literal 24hr. days. No evolution, no natural selection, nothing. All that's here is just as God made it in the begining.  No room for myth, no room for stories, what's in the Bible is cold, hard facts.   I didn't realize we were neighbors.   Either the Bible is 100% true, or its useless fairy tales. Pick a side. And that's exsactly my point. The evidence points to planetary collision for the reason behind the formation of our moon, no God needed, as such if God didn't "make" the moon but two planets hitting each other did then what else in the Bible is "myth"?  Christians around here take Adam and Eve as real people that were created by God but are they or are they more myth, if so then wouldn't that make the "fall of man" a myth and "original sin" a myth. Why would there be a need for a saviour if they're no "original sin"?  So who was the Christ and why did he come?  Do you get where I'm coming from with this, it's either 100% true right down to God creating fleas and ants or it's all a myth and if it's a myth then why should I follow your myth and not a myth of my own. Why do Christians push their religion as being "THE" religion when they're all myths and ledgens.

Garandman has deliberately avoided using his own God-given gift of reason an intellect to notice the discrepancies.  It's folks like him that regularly turn good people away from Christ's message.  Garandman is in the - very vocal - minority, though.  He is the last person you want to be listening to if you are serious about reconciling Christianity and science.  Do you have any Jesuit schools near you?