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Posted: 6/8/2001 2:59:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2001 2:34:58 PM EDT by Kuiper]
Who has the best Special Forces in the world? I'm going to get FLAMED big time for this but hey I'm loyal. I work with Air Force PJ's. I watch these guys jump out of our Helo's. I'm there to cover their asses while they leave the helo and go to bring "Jack" back alive. These guys know tactics and are EMT's. Basically I think they're shit hot. Like I said I'm loyal, I work with them. I've got to say it! Plus they've got to be the least known SF's unit.
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 3:12:24 AM EDT
Just ask NSF JoJo, he'll tell you all you need to know, but, then he'll have to kill you. It'd be a shame if a civilian knew the deep, dark secrets of the USSIRSCOCOM*. *United States Special Indoor Retail Shopping Center Operations COMmand
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 3:16:35 AM EDT
All of them are absolutely top notch or they wouldn't be there, but loyalty to the Navy keeps my choices obvious. United States Navy!! When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed, OVERNIGHT!!
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 3:20:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2001 3:18:20 AM EDT by Kharn]
You guys remember Rambo? Its not him Remember Walker, Texas Ranger? Its definitely not him, even in the Delta Force movies. What about the Navy Seals? No way in hell they could spot a shop-lifter at 200 yards. USSOCOM? Hell no, they'd never be able to handle sticking stickers on people with bags at the front door. Rangers? Nah, they couldn't handle clean up in Aisle 4. The Mall Ninja? Hell yeah, he and his wife are the best special forces in the world. He's off on assignment right now stopping a serial shoplifter that goes by the name of Sticky Fingers at an undisclosed location, and should be returning to duty any day now. Do not fear, Mall Security is here! Kharn
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 3:31:32 AM EDT
1- The Israelis 2- The British 3- The U.S.
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 5:23:49 AM EDT
Hi Doorgunner, Simply put, there is no "best". You can't compare between the different service branches (or expecially between different countries). Each Special Operations group has their own specialty. Navy SEALs specialize in the maritime environment, Rangers specialize in small unit tactics and raids, Army SF specializes in FID (among lots of other things), etc etc. You don't really want PJ's taking down a target filled with hostages. You want SF/CAG/Rangers/NSW guys doing that. -But- PJ's could provide a vital role in such an operation along side the HR team (not that those guys don't have their own very capable medics as well). See where I'm going with that? The one thing all Special Operations Forces have in common is that they are all highly motivated, exceptional operators. They are all necessary and provide vital individual taskings. btw: I'm partial to AF Special Tactics as well. :-) Take care, [b]S[/b]earch[b]A[/b]nd[b]R[/b]escue[b]guy[/b]
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 6:07:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 7:08:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kharn: You guys remember Rambo? Its not him Remember Walker, Texas Ranger? Its definitely not him, even in the Delta Force movies. What about the Navy Seals? No way in hell they could spot a shop-lifter at 200 yards. USSOCOM? Hell no, they'd never be able to handle sticking stickers on people with bags at the front door. Rangers? Nah, they couldn't handle clean up in Aisle 4. The Mall Ninja? Hell yeah, he and his wife are the best special forces in the world. He's off on assignment right now stopping a serial shoplifter that goes by the name of Sticky Fingers at an undisclosed location, and should be returning to duty any day now. Do not fear, Mall Security is here! Kharn
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I already have him custody, everything is 5 by 5 now. I'm glad to see that quiet a few people here recogzine us the true professionals of Special Forces. There's no SEAL who could take the gruleing hours on duty, the emotional toture and stress, the nearly constant rapid action in an urban loacations. That's we retial securtiy types get chosen for the really black, dangerous ops. We rightly considre ourselfs to be head and shoulders a bove any other SF organzation, and when you think you can get away with nicking a bracelet, or planting another kilo of C-4 in the food court you find out just how good we are. Gecko45
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 7:14:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 9:59:02 AM EDT
I say SAS because they have the most experience, or maybe the Israelis for the same reason. Real world experience means a lot in that business. ronnie
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 10:15:52 AM EDT
They may not be military, but the FBI HRT is a group that I would at the same level as the SEALs, Green Beanies, or anybody else. But as SAR put it, there is no "best." They all work in different fields and serve different functions.
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 10:24:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR_Rifle: 1- The Israelis 2- The British 3- The U.S.
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The Israelis? You watch too much TV. They are trained to work in one environment. Theirs. Take them to Kosovo and they'll get lost. The US has the best trained SF in the world. They are trained for ALL types of situations and terrains.
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 10:34:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ronnie Stephens: I say SAS because they have the most experience, or maybe the Israelis for the same reason. Real world experience means a lot in that business. ronnie
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Hi Ronnie, Just because the general public doesn't hear anything does [b]not[/b] mean operators are not out there practicing their craft. Trust me on this. US SOF have plenty of experience. phrigid brings up a great point. FBI's HRT trains with the same level of intensity as high-speed mil units. They are responsible for terrorist activities on US soil. SOCOM handles the military end of the spectrum. -SARguy
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 10:38:53 AM EDT
Delta Force. They are a collection of the best of the best from all the US SF groups.
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 10:39:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 10:40:34 AM EDT
-Ronnie- Sorry I haven't written you back. Been busy. I didn't get the job, but something better is working out. I'll get back in touch with you and ride w/ you some night. Btw, SAS kicks ass. Good call. Phrigid
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 11:01:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Freedom Fighter: Delta Force. They are a collection of the best of the best from all the US SF groups.
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[b]NOT TRUE.[/b] Delta is an [b]Army[/b] unit. They don't have SEALs/FR/PJ's/etc. If someone in another branch wants to join, they will have to drop their current enlistment and re-enlist in the Army. The unit does however draw from all specialties within the Army (not everyone is SF/Ranger). They will even take Guardsmen or Reserves, provided they are willing to go active duty (and meet the time remaining requirement). -SARguy
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 11:08:27 AM EDT
And just to be even more specific, the only branch that REALLY has Special Forces is the Army. Technically, all the others are just "elite" forces.
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 11:10:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 2:31:57 PM EDT
My vote has to go to Army Special Forces. They are trained to do almost everything all the other Spec Ops units do, plus one other very important one, the reason why I have to pick them to be the best. All of the other groups can go kick a$$, but only SF goes in months earlier, and trains the indigenous population how to kick a$$. Tell me- in a real world SHTF situation, would you rather have a very small group with no replacements, or a battalion of highly trained guerillas at your command, with an entire population of potential new recruits?
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 2:35:23 PM EDT
Who's the best? Depends on the mission. The question is who is the most versatile? My vote go with the Navy SEAL's
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 3:01:38 PM EDT
that's like asking: whats best? a hammer, or a wrench? for what job? it is my understanding that the air force looks for people with experience in other s.f. for special tactics teams.
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 3:03:32 PM EDT
Personally, I'll say the Air Force ParaJumpers. I'll be flyin those badboys in to their locations within the next year. AIR FORCE!!!!!! The Grand Poo-Ba Mikie
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 3:32:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 3:46:04 PM EDT
Air Force? LMAO... Their hardly even considered MILITANT! They have a Special Force Unit? What do they specialize in? Fueling jets at record speed? Army, no beef with the Rangers. I suppose they can hold their own if they had to. But, without a doubt, hands down, no doubt about it, Navy all the way. Their not called S.E.A.L.s for nothing. SEAirLand UW RAH!
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 3:47:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2001 3:45:04 PM EDT by FITTER]
The PJ's ARE Sierra Hotel... it's a tough and specialized job they perform. SARguy is right, though; each group has a specialized task that they perform, and it would be hard to really make a comparison. Myself, I'm definitely partial to the SEALs, but the British SBS (kinda their version of the SEALs... they are a cut above the much-vaunted SAS) are probably the Best. JMHO... FITTER out[0j]
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 4:02:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TopCrest: Just ask NSF JoJo, he'll tell you all you need to know, but, then he'll have to kill you. It'd be a shame if a civilian knew the deep, dark secrets of the USSIRSCOCOM*. *United States Special Indoor Retail Shopping Center Operations COMmand
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USSIRSCOCOM prevents me from detailing the exact methods of preparation for OPDRUP* But I can say that it involves many hours of ridicule and alot of sweat and blood to pick-lock Dad's gun safe. *OPeration DRessUP [):)] NSF
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 4:11:00 PM EDT
Sence no one else has put them. USMC Force Recon and STA Platoons and FAST company!!!
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 8:57:49 PM EDT
I'll go with Hambone on this one.I think Marine Force Recon is the most overlooked "Special Forces" unit out there. Then again, they do not seek the publicity of the other units.They are trained in a number of insertion/extraction techniques and are capable of performing in any type of environment. Sub-Surface SCUBA Zodiac Fast Attack Veh. Helo Fast Rope SPIE Rig LLSL(Low Level Staic Line) HAHO HALO While I do agree that each SpecOp unit has it strong points and own area that they excel in, I believe that Force is the most versatile. Of course, I'm just an old dumb Grunt so what do I know. Semper Fi ASO544
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 9:29:06 PM EDT
The Hastings militia.
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 11:20:07 PM EDT
Now I am probably showing a little National Pride here (so shoot me)....but the Aussie SAS are petty hard to go past....much like was said about the Marine Force Recon types...they are trained as "all round " (if there is such a thing) operators....Ct, Marine, Para, Veh Ops yada yada yada. Hey and a lot of my old buddies are still there so i have to be nice..(or I will wake up dead). Andy
Link Posted: 6/8/2001 11:33:26 PM EDT
AREA 51 PATROL. "BEEN WHERE? DONE WHAT!"
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 12:12:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2001 12:11:35 AM EDT by Boland]
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 12:48:09 AM EDT
Navy SEALS for breadth of training. For just plain deadly, I'd have to go with Marine snipers. CIA has some real mean sons' bitches.
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 5:32:17 PM EDT
PETA's Commandos and Unconventional Negotiation Team.
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 6:15:56 PM EDT
As part of the Marine air control system, I had some contact with the Marine Recon, and found them to be good at many special forces missions while still being military. The SEALs seem to believe their own movies. I would call them more of a super SWAT team, with an attitude along those lines. While controling some airspace near their base at the south end of the Chocolate Mountain range they gave us much sass and one night they just came ripping through out antenna area in their super dune buggys, past our guard, cause they are SEALs and everyone else is not. I am not sure they are team players, and therefore I think their role in an actual military mission is unclear. The Panama invasion, where they attempted to take an objective and suffered many casualties from what was, pretty much, a guard unit just goes to prove my point. I believe that Marine Recon would have done the recon type stuff (and done a good job) and brought in air support and then pathfinded for an infantry or combined arms unit to do the job right.
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 6:41:00 PM EDT
You guys ever read that article in Maxim about SFs? I don't know much, it sounds like those Russians get take some abuse and keep going.
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 6:46:18 PM EDT
I've had friends that were Green Berets, PJs, and Marine Recon....I would go into ANYTHING with them covering my 6.... My govenor was a SEAL so I have a biased opinion... after all they can't ALL be idiots.
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 10:51:39 PM EDT
Well Boland I am not sure why the Brits don't want the Aussies called SAS anymore....??? In fact that is the the first I have heard of it.....you would be hard pressed to say the SASR out here weren't competent...but hey Mate...everyone is entitled to an opinion....you are correct in saying that no one group is best at everything.....but here in Skippy land we pretty much only have the SAS (Plus the Commando Rgts for larger operations)...so they are jacks of all trades. My 2 cents....that is of course 1 cent US Andy
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 11:23:18 PM EDT
SOG SAS SF SEALS Damn, they all very capable. I Will not leave out the PJs. The certainly deserve praise. Ask any downed airman. Best sight in the world would be a Jolly Green hovering overhead with a PJ riding the cable.
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 11:54:39 PM EDT
I'd like to hear more about the Russian Special Forces as well. Damned, it's still strange not saying "Soviet". I'm glad that giant is toast. I would think those guys have an awesome group or two. Forgive the spelling... Spetznaz. Are these guys still around?
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 12:45:46 AM EDT
MALL NINJAS! Be afraid, be very afraid. God, what would I do if the government ever thought of sending Mall Ninjas to take my guns? Oh, the horror, I wouldn't stand a prayer....
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 3:08:11 AM EDT
Well, it would have to be the Mall Ninjas, no doubt about it. But if we were to only go with military ones, I'd say some of those countries, like South Korea, may not have the big bucks and toys, but are probably some pretty mean SOBs. I know all the ROK troops at Camp Bonifas (Panmumjom) were all black-belts in Tae Kwon Do. After seeing how hard the ROK troops get pushed (still remember this ROK running with an 81mm baseplate on his back during Team Sprit) I could imagine how hard their SF guys are. Spetznaz are still in existance. I don't know if they call them by the same name, but I doubt if they changed it. Tradition is tradition. They are termed "diversionary troops". Their main prupose is to provide a combat multiplier by carrying out diversionary attacks and special raids on key targets. The Soviets, and now Russians, have normal Army troops, and troops who belong to the various parts of the Russian government. Like troops who belong to the Interior ministry, or troops who belong to the KGB, ore whatever. Spetznaz belonged to GRU, which was military intelligence. They are trained in all forms of weapons, systems, languages, and tactics. They have specialized units for particular tasks. The anti-VIP units mission is to locate, identify, and assasinate key enemy personel (like presidents, generals, etc). One of the Spetznaz's main missions was to neutralize Nuclear weapons such as ambushing the USAF cruise missle transporters, or raids on RAF bases in England, etc. They consist of both men and women and will speak the language fluetnly, dress in civillian clothes, and be located near their target long before hostillities break out. They are physically fit, training to the olympic level. Several people on their olympic teams have been suspected as Spetznaz, as they use the team to get their troops into other countries to get first hand experience there. They are more of a direct-combat role unit, rather than intelligence gathering, spying, etc. that the KGB does. It should be recognized that they have a great deal of experience in Afgahnastan, Chechnyna, and a host of other places that the Russians have been involved in lately. Also the problems the Russians have had with organized crime has given Spetznaz some experience (and probably contacts) there as well. In the end, real experience is much more important than anything else. There are both Army and Naval Infantry Spetznaz units. They preform the functions suitable to their enviroment. The finacial situation has probably impacted them pretty hard, but they probably get funding because they can be more cost effective than most conventional units. Ross
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 3:31:19 AM EDT
I reckon all western SF units through out the world are truly professional hardcore personnel. By not being in the limelight of the news, those are the stealthy ones. Discretion is always best. Those with operational experience are an asset, and we can all learn from these. When I think of SF I think of American SEALs Deltas, English SAS, Australian SAS, German GSG9, Canadian JTF2 and so on. The best of the best, the best that their countries can offer. Truly hardcore professional soldiers! For those of you who have the honour and the privilage of serving with an SF unit, "good on ya's". After serving over 25yrs in two armies of two nations, I admire those who can make the grade into the SF units. Just making the grade to get on a course is most difficult. Both hard on the mind and body. "This Buds for you"!
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 4:57:07 PM EDT
I would have to agree with Paul, the mall ninjas in my town are the creme de la creme of all urban shopping mall security forces.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 5:31:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 5:47:21 PM EDT
Boland, I could be wrong but as I understand it 1st FR (west) is still operational as an independent company and 2nd FR (east) has merged with 2nd Recon Bat. So there is still a FR company embedded in the 2nd Recon Bat. For what it is worth. If I am wrong , I'm sure someone will correct me. Semper Fi ASO544
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 5:55:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 11:19:28 PM EDT
phigrid is write, in saying that the only true special forces are in the army. the are a fraction of the us s.o.c.o.m. (special operations command) which is based out of mc'dil air force base. army navy marines etc are all actually special operations units. it is true that these units are all designed with a different objective in mind and all performe differently under different situations. example being panama when the navy seals took a airfield they took casualties far above what was expected (expected casualties=0). the job of taking airfields is usually the job of army rangers. the engagement ended with several seals shot by small arms fire and one seal destroying the plane that they were supposed to disable with a at4 launcher. however I personally think that if they were to be tested in a variety of different conditions than I think it would stack up like this. 1. navy seals 2. army special forces 3. army rangers 4. 160th soars 5. sas 6. marine force recon 7. fbi hostige rescue teams 8. secret service 9. royal marines 10. and the isreal sf in there somewhere. just my point two, and lots of people will disagree I guarantee it but just thought I would contribute
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 11:23:36 PM EDT
Ross, Thanks for the info. I studied them for awhile, but that was almost 20 years ago. God damned I'm old. Anyway, thanks!
Link Posted: 6/16/2001 11:28:27 PM EDT
The top 3 all probably are equal in technical proficiency, it's the policies of thier governments that makes one better than the other.... in my opinion... tim
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