Would you consider this treason? - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Would you consider this treason? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 10/18/2004 7:34:37 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Yea. I guess treason was a tad strong.

No doubt, it is also VERY stupid. Assassination is seldom, (if ever), in my way of thinking, a viable political option.

The 2A was written for reasons besides war with invading armies. Why do you think most politicians HATE gun ownership by the people?

Posted: 10/18/2004 7:37:03 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Quoted:
they cant do shit without evidence. Get a phone recorder.

Also illegal and inadmissible as evidence (at least under civilian law. I'm not certain about the UCMJ).

depends on the state....and most have a clause "under color of law" anyway, so TAPE AWAY!!!

Posted: 10/18/2004 7:40:29 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
She called tonight and made the statement that she felt that the POTUS should be assinated!

Sounds more like an opinion, than a threat. No problem letting USSS decide though.

Posted: 10/21/2004 9:31:42 PM EDT

[#4]

Well I did what I thought was right and that was let the Secret Service know. I sat up until 5am in the morning because I just didnt know what to do.

Here is the main problem with it all. This girl isnt someone who would pull something like that off. But since she's joined the military she has kind of slipped as a person and become weird. My fear is that this kind of talk and thinking isnt coming from her but the people around her. If something were to ever happen I couldnt live with with myself if I just kept my mouth shut.

To top the whole thing off her Marine Dad called my wife today while I was at work yelling and screaming "what the hell did you guys do?" My wife just hung up on the guy but I'm not sure what to do about that whole thing.

Posted: 10/22/2004 2:20:01 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Well I did what I thought was right and that was let the Secret Service know. I sat up until 5am in the morning because I just didnt know what to do.

Here is the main problem with it all. This girl isnt someone who would pull something like that off. But since she's joined the military she has kind of slipped as a person and become weird. My fear is that this kind of talk and thinking isnt coming from her but the people around her. If something were to ever happen I couldnt live with with myself if I just kept my mouth shut.

To top the whole thing off her Marine Dad called my wife today while I was at work yelling and screaming "what the hell did you guys do?" My wife just hung up on the guy but I'm not sure what to do about that whole thing.

I'm glad you went ahad and reported it.

To a certain extant, if you didn't report it - and, G-d forbid, something happens, the shit's on you. The public will want a scapegoat, a conspiracy, and YOU'll go down too.

The Shin Bet (SHABAK) guy who overheard Yigal Amir "joke" about shooting PM Rabin was put on trial for not reporting it.

Some things are just not to be joked about, especially in the .mil, and with means + motive.

Remember, you will never know what you prevented. Retrospect is 20/20. Err on the side of caution (while at the same time, respecting moral, ethical, and civil rights limitations).

Posted: 10/22/2004 2:22:25 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Clear cut. Report it.

+1

Posted: 10/22/2004 2:23:02 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Clear cut. Report it.

Words / deeds have consequences, child. Grow the fuck up.

Posted: 10/22/2004 2:24:55 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
as far as im concerned she simply voiced her opinion. I don't see what she said as a threat. is she an asshat? yes. is she threatening anyone? no.

You're an Idiot. 'Assassination' of a government official is not a topic of conversation, and certainly not by someone in military uniform.

Posted: 10/22/2004 2:26:13 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
In the military you gave up certain rights knowingly. Live up to your commitment or get the hell out.

+1000

Posted: 10/22/2004 2:27:35 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Is this another Gestapo thread about turning someone into the authorities over purely "Hearsay"?

Only to your fucked-up childish worldview. To the rest of us, it's about discussing assassinating the President being a CRIME, and doubly so when it is a sworn member of our nation's military.

Posted: 10/22/2004 2:28:04 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
That's what I figured about the phone thing. We'll see what they want to do about it. If nothing else, maybe the SS, along with her commander, will sit down and have a nice chat about making unkind remarks and her future in the Army.

Even without evidence the SS will have a long chat with her.

Posted: 10/22/2004 2:39:30 PM EDT

[#12]

A military officer shouldn't even be joking about stuff like this...

Posted: 10/22/2004 2:48:22 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
isn't that code of conduct only for when in uniform that one is not allowed to speak their mind? Did she say this in the privacy of her own home? What's the scoop. DETAILS NEEDED!

Although I can see the similarity between her saying that and some punchdrunk asshole draftee talking about how his CO should be fragged out.

You'll have to bring me up to speed on the Uniform Code of Military Justice...... Some quotes from the exact laws would be nice instead of just simple "word" also.

UCMJ applies until you are discharged!

Posted: 10/22/2004 2:51:37 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
as far as im concerned she simply voiced her opinion. I don't see what she said as a threat. is she an asshat? yes. is she threatening anyone? no.

Officers in the US Military are very restricted on what opinions they may express when it comes to the POTUS and high government officials. This, if true, crossed that line.

Posted: 10/22/2004 2:54:36 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Has anyone considerd going the stick it in her pooper and post pics route. If not that, then get both. Be careful though, maybe it's a trap.

That also would be a UCMJ violation.

Posted: 10/22/2004 9:08:16 PM EDT

[#16]

Glad to report that he father hasnt tried calling back. Glad most support my actions.

Posted: 10/22/2004 9:44:24 PM EDT

[#17]

Your daughter-in-law needs to find some new friends. In a hurry.

Posted: 10/22/2004 10:03:03 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Your daughter-in-law needs to find some new friends. In a hurry.

She's no longer considered a friend by my wife.

Posted: 10/22/2004 10:04:31 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
My son's wife has a friend who is an officer in the Army in southern AZ. She called tonight and made the statement that she felt that the POTUS should be assinated! She also has a boy friend who is in her chain of command of a lesser rank. (think bunk mates here)

I spent 20 years in the service. i wouldn't stand for this crap then and I won't now.

We, my son and I, plan on a trip to the air base here to talk to OSI after work today.

Her dad is an ex Marine, if there is such a thing, and I'll just bet he would be really pissed if he knew about this.

Not treason, but a definate UCMJ violation...

Report it...

Also, she seems to have forgotten THIS:

Officer's Oath:

I, (Name Here)., do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

Posted: 10/22/2004 10:08:18 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:

"or knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President, President-elect,..."

The above law mentions quite a bit about written type threats, but nothing about verbal (unless the line of text I quoted above covers that).

Besides, the persons comments really don't sound like a threat; more like an opnion.

The person allegedly said "they thought the President should be assasinated; not that they would like to or would assasinate the President.

This article covers her quite well:

UCMJ
ARTICLE 88: CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS
Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Respect for the chain of command is fundimental...

I see this as no different than the folks who refused to deliver that fuel in Iraq:...

When you voluntarily accept a commission in the military, you are giving up alot of your 'rights' to serve the country. Absolute free speech is one of them...

Posted: 10/22/2004 10:22:24 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yea. I guess treason was a tad strong.

No doubt, it is also VERY stupid. Assassination is seldom, (if ever), in my way of thinking, a viable political option.

The 2A was written for reasons besides war with invading armies. Why do you think most politicians HATE gun ownership by the people?

Assassination is murder, period.

CARRYING OUT the assassination of the POTUS IS treason...

The 2nd Ammendment was NOT written to justify ASSASSINATION, read it...

While the 'Well Regulated Militia' clause does NOT indicate what kind of weapons are protected, it DOES indicate the purpose of the Ammendment, which is to ensure that citizens are able to take up arms in defense of their country, NOT to go around assassinating legitimately elected politicians...

You sir, are an idiot for even suggesting this...

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Would you consider this treason? (Page 2 of 2)

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