Quoted: Yup, I vote with my wallet. My employer did.  We no longer have any customers that are farther than 8 hours away.  We decided to give them up after three times in a row, our guys missed their flight due to being held-up by security.  It cost us a lot of money, but saved us a lot of frustration. Also, we're a courier (among several other things), and we found it impossible to get permission to carry-on a locked bag onto a flight.  Some of our competitors still do it, but I don't know how.  That security rule cost us several good customers.z

And this is what the terrorists want.

The TSA needs to drop the "pc" bullcrap and either do it for real the right way or get out of the way.  

Alas, the sheeple bow their heads and bend over, thus they get what they deserve.  

Quoted: Were the public given a screw job by Sen. Diane Fienstein.

EVERY FRIGGEN DAY that bitch breathes air!!

Last time I went through TSA I was wearing a HK Law Enforcement Division polo shirt.  Black one with HK in red.  The TSA guy asks "What's HK?".  I respond back with "It's a firearms company that your government division just gave $26M dollars to for new sidearms.".  I wanted to follow it up with "jackass", but I also wanted to get on the plane.  How can these guys be looking for weapons/be in law enforcement and not know who HK is?  This crap about checking boobs is a load of shit too.  I can't believe we've come this far.

Quoted: Quoted: My wife and I are unwilling to go anywhere we can't drive. Air travel is not an option. Yup, I vote with my wallet.  They can kiss my ass.

Too bad your tax dollars will keep them in business indefinitely.

................because we all know, hot blonde terrorists with nice racks hijacked those planes on Sept 11.  That, along with little old ladies, and children.  Now, take your shoes off and show me your rack.

Quoted: If the sheeple willingly submit to this, they deserve it.

"Now boarding Flight 503 to Dallas, please drop your pants and bend over when ordered to do so by the TSA screener!":

Refresh my memory, those 2 Russian planes that blew up a little bit ago.

How did the terrorists manage that?

Certainly not having women homicide bombers smuggle explosives on those planes.

Quoted: [Too bad your tax dollars will keep them in business indefinitely.

I'm pretty sure you're right.

Quoted: Quoted: Refresh my memory, those 2 Russian planes that blew up a little bit ago. How did the terrorists manage that? Certainly not having women homicide bombers smuggle explosives on those planes. Bet they weren't blond, blue eyed, with 38DDs there Vern! Tj

you mean someone that looks like "rebelgray" couldn't be a spy or terrorist?

What did Tim McViegh look like?

Quoted: While I'm not an airline security screener, I am an MP and have been trained on searching people several times.  I've had my nuts grabbed and ass checked dozens of times for training experience.  You'd be suprised what you can hide, and checking everywhere IS necessary for a proper search.   People just shouldn't whine.  She should be happy that  female was doing the search.

I grew up by an Air Force base and MPs were widely regarded as the dumbest people in the military.  If someone couldn't qualify for ANYTHING else, they became an MP.  You are not doing anything to make that reputation look undeserved.

There is a HUGE difference between military regulations and civilian regulations -- a little thing called "rights."  In the military, you don't really have rights.  In the civilian world, we do (or at least we are supposed to).  Hence the name:  CIVIL rights.  If you can't see that search procedures on a military base should be WAY different than search procedures in the public realm, then I really can't help you.

It's possible the woman could've been booby trapped.

Quoted: Refresh my memory, those 2 Russian planes that blew up a little bit ago. How did the terrorists manage that? Certainly not having women homicide bombers smuggle explosives on those planes.

BFD.  The terrorists will ALWAYS find a way around security.  They will come up with new ways to blow shit up faster than we could ever hope to come up with rules to try and stop them.

Frankly, I'd rather live with the minute chance that someone on my plane will try to blow it up than to live with the much greater chance that I will be required to submit to something that, when perpetrated by someone other than big daddy government, would legally qualify as SEXUAL BATTERY each and every time I fly.  Better to die free than to live as a slave to the whims of bottom-level bureaucrats with half my education, a tenth of my intelligence and a major fucking Cartman-style power trip.

Paging Longshot_VA . . . honey, forget a new house -- we need to buy an airplane.

Quoted: ... a member of my family is a commercial airline pilot.  shortly after 9/11, he had his fingernail clippers confiscated while going through "security."  he was in uniform, and on duty.  five minutes later, he was sitting at the controls of a fully fueled 767.  if you can trust the captain to safely fly a passenger jet, perhaps he might be allowed to trim his own nails, too.

They're not really worried about HIM having the nail clippers.  They're worried that he could lose them, have them stolen, or even willingly hand them over to terrorist accomplices who will travel on other flights. And then we'd have a terrorist fully capable of trimming their own nails.

Quoted: My wife and I are unwilling to go anywhere we can't drive. Air travel is not an option.

My wife and I are in the same situation. The last flight we took was in '02 for a vacation in Colorado. In Houston they snagged her for the "random" search. That's a joke anyway, because I always timed our boarding to get past that search until this time a jerk 2 people up didn't have his ID out and held up the line for 2 minutes. BAM! My wife was mad and the flight from Houston to Durango was ruined. She felt violated then, imagine now? We would have driven home too.

Quoted: Quoted: ... a member of my family is a commercial airline pilot.  shortly after 9/11, he had his fingernail clippers confiscated while going through "security."  he was in uniform, and on duty.  five minutes later, he was sitting at the controls of a fully fueled 767.  if you can trust the captain to safely fly a passenger jet, perhaps he might be allowed to trim his own nails, too. They're not really worried about HIM having the nail clippers.  They're worried that he could lose them, have them stolen, or even willingly hand them over to terrorist accomplices who will travel on other flights. And then we'd have a terrorist fully capable of trimming their own nails.

Then everyone on board could get wantonly clipped.....................................

Quoted: Quoted: Refresh my memory, those 2 Russian planes that blew up a little bit ago. How did the terrorists manage that? Certainly not having women homicide bombers smuggle explosives on those planes. BFD.  The terrorists will ALWAYS find a way around security.  They will come up with new ways to blow shit up faster than we could ever hope to come up with rules to try and stop them. Frankly, I'd rather live with the minute chance that someone on my plane will try to blow it up than to live with the much greater chance that I will be required to submit to something that, when perpetrated by someone other than big daddy government, would legally qualify as SEXUAL BATTERY each and every time I fly.  Better to die free than to live as a slave to the whims of bottom-level bureaucrats with half my education, a tenth of my intelligence and a major fucking Cartman-style power trip. Paging Longshot_VA . . . honey, forget a new house -- we need to buy an airplane.

Then let's get rid of all security. Hell get rid of all fences around airports. If you have to fly, just drive up to your plane and run up the gangway.

No one would take advantage of that.

All this because some goat fucks used box cutters
to commandeer planes  -- my god what have we become ???

Box cutters -- take the  slash and then beat the mofo senseless.

We have all become sheeple -- and maybe deserve what we get from now on ???

Quoted: All this because some goat fucks used box cutters to commandeer planes  -- my god what have we become ??? Box cutters -- take the  slash and then beat the mofo senseless. We have all become sheeple -- and maybe deserve what we get from now on ??? www.uline.com/images/product/browse/HD_1158_b.JPG

Well said.

Just ridiculous!

The idea of random searches is to dissuade criminals. By searching a small percentage you raise the perceived risk of criminal activity to prevent the crime or to eventually catch the repeat offender -  think of sobriety stops on New Year’s Eve. To be effective at stopping criminals, i.e. terrorists, you must search a very high percentage if not everyone to be effective. Could you imagine the uproar if the TSA did this to just 10% of the passengers on a random basis? But how would a 1 in 10 chance of being caught deter, not to mention stop, a terrorist who is committed to killing themselves to kill us? This just points out how on a logic based analysis this idea is flawed.

Morally to subject the public to this type of humiliation could never be justified or sustained. If this becomes a common or perceived as common practice the impact it would have on air travel would bankrupt the industry.

The problem I see is even after 911 people just don’t get it. We can’t PC our way thru this one, we have to do something like the Israelis and profile people and try to detect the terrorist, we will never be effective at stopping the tools they use.

Unfortunately I expect it will take a lot more pain (read 911s) before the “blue county” people figure this out.

Rich V

You guys are missing the big picture. What about overweight men like me? I mean, WHAT ABOUT MY MAN BOOBS?? I have at least a 'B' cup! There is no way I'm letting some neatly dressed guy named 'steve' who has  a lisp twiddle my nipples!! Although now that I think about it.............................

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Refresh my memory, those 2 Russian planes that blew up a little bit ago. How did the terrorists manage that? Certainly not having women homicide bombers smuggle explosives on those planes. BFD.  The terrorists will ALWAYS find a way around security.  They will come up with new ways to blow shit up faster than we could ever hope to come up with rules to try and stop them. Frankly, I'd rather live with the minute chance that someone on my plane will try to blow it up than to live with the much greater chance that I will be required to submit to something that, when perpetrated by someone other than big daddy government, would legally qualify as SEXUAL BATTERY each and every time I fly.  Better to die free than to live as a slave to the whims of bottom-level bureaucrats with half my education, a tenth of my intelligence and a major fucking Cartman-style power trip. Paging Longshot_VA . . . honey, forget a new house -- we need to buy an airplane. Then let's get rid of all security. Hell get rid of all fences around airports. If you have to fly, just drive up to your plane and run up the gangway. No one would take advantage of that.

Your right... we're sorry.  Ok everyone back in line for ball grabbing and titty feeling.  The only alternative to a police state is total anarchy!  When the next homicide bomber puts somthing up his ass we'll just have to accept random body cavity searches too!  Without them we'll have people just running up to planes and fances torn down.  WE MUST FEEL SAFE!!!

1. Security like this does not work.
2. 1 person is all that is required to take down a plane.
3. security can not find that person, they do not have the skills to do so or the attitude to do so.
4. The current security situation is an insult and VERY unconstitutional.
5. Why can't we do it the right way? Because people like us , who stand up for our 2nd amend. rights everywhere else, let this be taken from us.

Quoted: Okay, when we got searched at Disneyland before our senior picnic, all they did was  run their  fingers between the breasts and underneath them quickly - they never actually touched them.  I never heard of the kind of search where they actually need to feel you up.

Yep, blade edge of the hand between, and back of the hand under the breast.  Never allowing any contact between palm of the hands, or fingertips, and the breasts.

I have mixed feelings on this whole shit.

I don't want another plane to fly into a building because a boxcutter made it thru security, I also hate being treated like a criminal. I think racial profiling is a go in these situations.

Miss_Magnum

You bring out an unintentional point from your experience, you could have been as flat as a board with two pounds of c-4 in each cup and as long as the TSA agent felt “the wire” you were clear to go!! We can’t stop the determined terrorist from bringing something on a plane that can be used to destroy it. Ever think what could be smuggled aboard in a corked wine bottle? The PanAm 103 flight over Lockerby was brought down with something like 10 oz of explosives. Doesn’t take much imagination on how 1 or more people could get that small of a nonmetallic material past ANY security check short of a strip search.
The real issue is putting genuine effort into finding the terrorist and not focusing on only the tools.

Rich V

Quoted: I have mixed feelings on this whole shit. I don't want another plane to fly into a building because a boxcutter made it thru security, I also hate being treated like a criminal. I think racial profiling is a go in these situations.

No plane with myself, or any number of folks I know present is ever going to be taken down with a boxcutter again. Any fool that tries that is getting bum rushed. I agree with a previous poster: take the slash and beat the mofo within an inch of his life.

Now that people know what will surely happen if a terrorist attempts to take over a plane, I'm not sure that even the presence of a firearm would keep a group of passengers from nearly killing a terrorist.

If the guy said that to some one I was with, I don't give a rats ass I would have made my feelings clear, if he didn't listen I guess I would have been on news for kicking some security guards ass. Either way he wouldn't have his hands near her breast. I don't give a shite you have to draw a line some times.

Next they will need to put two finger in her vagina to make sure she isn't hiding any thing up there. The technology exist to detect explosives with out ever even touching the person.

The bouncers at the local bars do it all the time

Ok, I'll admit it, I have a great disdane for the TSA.  For a *cough* agency like them to pay their people more than I get paid is freaking unbelieveable.  Although, if you've ever come back across a landborder, I'm sure most of you would dislike the US Customs service as much as I dislike the TSA.

I had just finished the 13 week Customs (CBP) Academy at Glynco, GA and a few of us were catching our flights back home.  This was at Jacksonville mind you.  So we go through the line, put our shoes on their shoe buster to make sure I won't blow the plane up with my foot.  Then I proceed to put all my items in the plastic bin.

There are four of us remember.  We all put our badges and credentials in the bins and walk through the metal detector.  My 3 other friends go though the line no problem.  Then I go though.  I know they're looking at my bin because the other 3 bins have already passed though.  They take my badge and creds out and look at it, and ask me if its mine.  Being the agreeable person that I am, I make no fuss of their stupidity, but polietly tell them that it's mine.  I don't know what they were thinking.  I'm pretty young (23 at the time, 24 now), and I look even younger, but for the love of all that is holy... grrrrr.

Now,  do they have nothing better to do than to hold me up while they look at my new shiney badge?  Not to mention they just let the other 3 shiney badges go though.  Do I look like a freaking terrorist?  I've had it up to here with old ladies and little kids being put though these examinations while Habib and Mohamed go though no problem.

I've talked to other Customs officers and they've been held up because the screeners don't believe them when they say their traveling unarmed.  You think that they would be smart enough, let alone trusting enough to take the word of a Law Enforcement Officer at face value.   But it's all PC bullshit.  They say they cannot target people who may be of Middle Eastern descent.  It's absolutely unbelievable.  

I love to fly, but I'll only do it if Uncle Sugar is footing the bill.  I won't subject myself to the TSA on my own dime.  Now if I could get into the Air Marshal program, that would be a sweet sweet deal.  But then, they have their own set of problems altogether.

Quoted: Yep, blade edge of the hand between, and back of the hand under the breast. Never allowing any contact between palm of the hands, or fingertips, and the breasts. i don't give a fuck if you use your feet, twinkle toes, you ain't copping a feel at the wifes tits or my nads. understand??

"copping a feel" would be massaging the breast in the palm of the hand, maybe tweeking the nipple between the thumb and forefinger.   I have not seen anything that leads me to believe that is occuring.


If the metal detector indicates in the area of the womans breast, what technique do you think is appropriate for determining if the metal detector was set off by a metal underwire/clasp, or a small handgun

Quoted: Quoted: Refresh my memory, those 2 Russian planes that blew up a little bit ago. How did the terrorists manage that? Certainly not having women homicide bombers smuggle explosives on those planes. Bet they weren't blond, blue eyed, with 38DDs there Vern! Since the first month after 9/11, I haven't seen an obvious Arab get the "SSSS" for special handling.  I fly at least 3 times a month and often through mulitple airports. Tj

Actually, the BGs over in Russia are white.

Quoted: I've never seen a handgun so small that it came close to the mass of the metal in an underwire bra. no fucking shit! if you find a goddamn fucking gun small enough to hide under my wife's tits, let me know.

NAA Mini revolver
Keltec 32
Seecamp
Beretta 950BS

I have found meth pipes, hypoderic needles, handguns and knives hidden in womens Bras, usually between the breast or under the breast, rather than inserted in the cup of the bra.

Are you proposing a federal tax increase to pay for new technology that can tell the difference betwen a metal clasp/underwire Vs a handgun without a physical search?

Quoted: If the metal detector indicates in the area of the womans breast, what technique do you think is appropriate for determining if the metal detector was set off by a metal underwire/clasp, or a small handgun

Using a hand-held metal detector that costs more than a McDonald's Happy Meal, the tone given
by the detector will indicate to the user just how much metal is there by the tone. (And heaven
knows, you always want to save $$ if you can. After all, the TSA GS-14s have to get a good yearly
bonus.....)

However, this is also ASS-U-Ming that the user knows what he/she is doing, and has had more
than a 2-minute, "Here is the on-off button, wave it over their body, if it beeps, do a cavity search"
course of instruction.

Oh, that's right.... I'm making the mistake of thinking that they'd actually have decent training. My
bad....

Quoted: You guys are missing the big picture. What about overweight men like me? I mean, WHAT ABOUT MY MAN BOOBS?? I have at least a 'B' cup! There is no way I'm letting some neatly dressed guy named 'steve' who has  a lisp twiddle my nipples!! Although now that I think about it.............................

They can grope me all they want, as long as I get to grope back.  If they don't trust me then there is no reason for me to trust them.

Quoted: Quoted: I've never seen a handgun so small that it came close to the mass of the metal in an underwire bra. no fucking shit! if you find a goddamn fucking gun small enough to hide under my wife's tits, let me know. NAA Mini revolver Keltec 32 Seecamp Beretta 950BS I have found meth pipes, hypoderic needles, handguns and knives hidden in womens Bras, usually between the breast or under the breast, rather than inserted in the cup of the bra. Are you proposing a federal tax increase to pay for new technology that can tell the difference betwen a metal clasp/underwire Vs a handgun without a physical search?

Gee, what about adjustable sensitivity metal detectors?  What about getting THINKING people as screeners?  Oh, I forgot.  That's not the type of person they are trying to hire.  

Ever seen a Metal-Tec 1400?  You can tell the density of the object by how far away you can detect it.  A gun will trigger quite some distance from the detector.  A syringe needle you would have to be touching.  It's not rocket science.  It just takes a half a brain.  

How would you react if it was your wife?

How would you react if it was your developing 12 year old daughter?

This is "pc" bullcrap taken WAAAY to the extreme.  "How far can we push the sheeple?"  "Gee, what can we do next?  How about vaginal exams for all women over 10 and rectal exams for everyone?"  

Hell, I have a better idea.  Let's shackle and chain all of the passengers.  We can take a lesson from the Prisoner Transport Service.  Make it just like the flight in CON AIR every time you fly.  

If there are children that are not old enough to be shackled next to the parents, they don't fly.  If EVERYONE is shackled and chained, we are treating them all fairly and would not violate the rights of any individual.  

The way things are going, the sheeple would eat it up!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've never seen a handgun so small that it came close to the mass of the metal in an underwire bra. no fucking shit! if you find a goddamn fucking gun small enough to hide under my wife's tits, let me know. NAA Mini revolver Keltec 32 Seecamp Beretta 950BS I have found meth pipes, hypoderic needles, handguns and knives hidden in womens Bras, usually between the breast or under the breast, rather than inserted in the cup of the bra. Are you proposing a federal tax increase to pay for new technology that can tell the difference betwen a metal clasp/underwire Vs a handgun without a physical search? Gee, what about adjustable sensitivity metal detectors?

Okay. Lets raise taxes to buy metal detectors so exact they can tell the difference between a metal zipper and a Keltec. Between a bra underwire/clasp and a spydeco.