Quoted: Quoted: I worked with a chick from England and we would always get into arguements over guns and self defense.  One day I asked her honestly if she was being robbed and her life was in immediate danger, would she kill the person.  She then started to talk about how its not worth a human life, blah blah blah. I've had the same conversation.  I asked the young lady who's life was more important to her.  Hers? or the rapist trying to kill her?  She got a strange look on her face and didn't answer.   I think for alot of these folks, the idea that they could be the victim of a homicidal criminal is outside of the scope of what they consider their reality.  That is why when they are the victim, they say things like " I couldn't believe it was happening to me ".  They have lived such a sheltered life that the thought of being a victim has not really entered their mind at all.  They truly believe that society will protect them.  Usually it only takes one truly close scrape for them to understand the true nature of their place in the world.  Unfortunately there are all to many in this country that will realize this lesson in the last possible second before they will never get to realize anything ever again. I have been an LEO for 18 years.  I can tell you with certainty that the best defense against the dangers on our streets is to learn to recognize the danger signs and to avoid them when at all possible.  The second best, is a gun and the knowledge and mindset to use it when the first defense has not been adequate.

You just put three through the "X ring" with those observations, shotar.

Quoted:


I didn't then, and still don't understand this logic. As long as I don't stand over the guy after he is down, reload, and dump an extra clip into him, WTF is the difference between shooting the guy twice, or five times before he goes down. I mean seriously....

quote]

Do not try to understand the logic of someone with this mind set.  It will only confuse you and possibly lower your IQ.  I would be willing to bet than in the same situation your "friend" would not count how many rounds he fired and just keep pulling the trigger until he ran out of rounds.  

May Dad always said to shoot them until they stop moving and then shoot them twice more to make sure  

Quoted: May Dad always said to shoot them until they stop moving and then shoot them twice more to make sure

RIGHT!!!!

Hasn't everyone seen the movies where they shoot the bad guy once, turn their back, and then the bad guy gets up to come after them again???  

Quoted: She then started to talk about how its not worth a human life, blah blah blah.

Spoken like a person who has never been put in that situation before. They talk a good fight, but when
push comes to shove......

Quoted: Quoted: I didn't then, and still don't understand this logic. As long as I don't stand over the guy after he is down, reload, and dump an extra clip into him, WTF is the difference between shooting the guy twice, or five times before he goes down. I mean seriously.... quote] Do not try to understand the logic of someone with this mind set.  It will only confuse you and possibly lower your IQ.  I would be willing to bet than in the same situation your "friend" would not count how many rounds he fired and just keep pulling the trigger until he ran out of rounds.   May Dad always said to shoot them until they stop moving and then shoot them twice more to make sure

Your DAD and my DAD would get along just fine. My DAD told me:

"A CLIP TO THE HEAD, YOU KNOW THEY'RE DEAD."

How many times have you heard of cops saying they had to pop a guy high on PCP many, many times before he would go down?

btt

You are justified to fire as long as you are in fear for your life.  Note, fear.  And, as others have mentioned, you fire until the threat stops.  Forensics will determine if he was standing at the time.  As long as he was standing, you should be on solid legal ground.  Depends on the state.  Also, be cognizant of the laws in your jurisdiction.   In Florida, for example, an intruder who breaks into your home is considered legally to be armed.  Kind of changes the dynamic and the legal result.

Quoted: I was debating gun control with my liberal PoliSci class, and one guy in the back said that "assualt weapons are only good for killing people!" and I looked him in the eye and said "self defense is about killing people". Lots of people got it, right then and there. You could see a light go on in their eyes.

Jack,
Next time this bozo speaks up, ask him to define an "Assault Weapon" (as defined by the now deceased AWB)  for you and the rest of the class...Then tell him to "Sit down, and shut the fuck up".

No, on second thought ...the blank stare on his face will be good enough!

Anybody know the stats on how many gunshot victims die versus how many that live? 1-2-3 or more shots and still survive versus the same amount and die?

I posted a topic about a year ago that asked if shooting someone these days actually should be considered attempted murder.  It sure seems like many more shooting victims live than die.

link

Originally posted by clean_cut, in the womens forum.........


Thought I'd ask since I would know which angle to use when introducing females to guns and shooting.

For me, I like the precision - accuracy and trigger pulls, and all that. Not really into the self-defense aspect as much, since I hope I would never be in a situation that called for it.

Plus, it's just fun to send bullets downrange. I like the boom and even the smell of gunpowder.

Quoted: Quoted: Ok.... so I was having this totally pointless conversation the other day with a friend about a  hypothetical situation. We were talking about the possibility of someone breaking into your house, and they came at you with something akin to a chair or baseball bat. I told my friend the following: First off, I would warn to him to drop the weapon (whatever it may be), and get on the ground. If he still came at me, I would shoot him. My friend said if he attacked, that I was justified in defending myself, but he also said that depending on how many times I shot the intruder, it could be manslaughter. I said WTF are you talking about??? He said if I shot him more than twice.... it would probably be construed as manslaughter because doing so would mean I was intentionally trying to kill the person. I did then, and still don't understand this logic. As long as I don't stand over the guy after he is down, reload, and dump an extra clip into him, WTF is the difference between shooting the guy twice, or five times before he goes down. I mean seriously.... Can someone else help me out with this??? I mean I know our country has gone to the Darkside of PC, but really, why can't I shoot the guy more than twice and not go to jail??? I want to make sure the guy is not going to get up to be a threat. Simple. You don't shoot to kill somebody. You shoot to stop the attack. If he decides to stop when he sees the weapon and surrenders, you have no right to shoot. OTOH, if you shoot him once or twice and he keeps coming, it's OK to shoot again until he stops being a threat. You don't have to convince me, as I could care less how many times you shoot an assailant. You have to convince a jury because there's a pretty good chance you are going to wind up in court no matter what.

Damn....Live in a state with liberal judges do you?  

Any good self defense course teaches "shoot until the gun is empty and reload for next threat" because even cops who are "trained" for high-stress combat situations still don't take threats down with one shot.  Look up cop vs. bad guy shootouts and see how many rounds the cops fire.  

Thankfully I live in GA, were if someone breaks in to my abode I can hose them with 10 rounds of .40 to be sure the threat has been stopped to my satisfaction and I am not going to be sued by some fucking quadraepaligic.

Know your local law.
Defense of Dwelling and Self.
Here the scenario you gave you were clearly within your boundries of using leathal force.  

Here any death is investigated as a homicide. So you might have some more discomfort. You most likely would go to investigations etc.  However you should be quickly cleared of any wrong doing.
In shootings many people go through sensory deprevation/ distortion.  You may see things more or less clearly, hear things more or less clearly.  etc.  
Pulled the trigger 3 times and only heard the slide clicking/racking. No pop or bang.  This was using a bunker and simunitions on a guy with an mp-5 with simunitions.   Scored 3 center mass shots you could cover with a silver dollar.  The dot on my front sight (Glock/Meprolight) looked like a freakin basket ball.  "I never shoot that good. "  The guy dumped a mag while swinging on me and I didn't even know it.
The entry team that was behind me said he fired 1 time to 100,  no joke.   everyone had a different number.

Never been in a real shooting and please pray for me that I never am.

Oh must add:
If your bullets don't work.   Find one that does.
ie: shoot til you find a bullet that stops the treat.

I hope you never have to test the theory.

Well,
I know that I'll keep shooting until the SOB is down, I am out of ammo, or the bg is splattered all over the wall.  And, as it has been said before, I don't want to meet the person who can survive 8 rds of 00 buck.  
HOWEVER
It really is determined by the courts in your area what the line is between self defense and manslaughter.  Some will view 2 rds as "excessive" and others will view 30rds fired as reasonable.  

My .02  

btt