Quoted: Quoted: I don't get this, how can one say you need to be christian to goto heaven, then they can say a Jew can goto heaven as well? Kind of like two wheels on a car, it might move but will it get you any place far? It is simple really when one considers that Christianity is a direct extension of Judaism and is in fact a Jewish faith.  In short, Christianity, which follows the teachings of a devout Jew as savior and messiah, can be seen as the vehicle which brought the one true God to a wider audience. For those whose particular brand of Christianity would deny this simple truth I would offer that to deny the father is to deny the son.  To deny the word and teachings of the father is to disbelieve in the son.  The Jews know what the father taught them and have kept the faith for nearly 6 thousand years.  So, the Jews that kept the faith will certainly go to God when it is time, as will those who sought their salvation through the son without denying the truth that is in the words of the father.  One cannot believe in the latter without knowing the former to be true.  One can also not deny the previous covenant because more was added later to add people not included in the first.

Outstanding post, Shotar. Very well done.

I am no theologian, but I don't see the God whom even the pagan Aristotle recognized as "the prime mover, unmoved" revoking a covenant He said was to last forever. I believe that He made a way for me (a descendant of pagans from at least a couple of continents) to become a descendant of Abraham, but I don't believe He went back on His word. I have thought  and prayed hard about this, and I have concluded that the Abrahamic covenant remains in force for the heirs of Abraham's body. Unless I believed God had specifically directed me to a given individual, I would not deliberately witness to a Jew, because the same God I serve seeks them by other and ancient means.

Quoted: The afterlife and olam haba (the world to come) Many secular or liberal Jews would state that Judaism does not believe in an afterlife, or that it is a this-worldly religion which concentrates on the here and now. While it is certainly true that Judaism does concentrate on the importance of this world, the fact is that much (not all) of classical Judaism does posit an afterlife. Much of the Jewish tradition affirms that the human soul is immortal, and thus in some way survives the physical death of the body. The existence of the soul after death is described with terms such as Olam Haba  (the world to come), Gan Eden  (the Heavenly Garden of Eden, or Paradise) and Gehenna  (Purgatory). Classical rabbinic afterlife teachings varied in different places and times; they were never synthesized into one coherent philosophy. As such, the different Jewish views of the afterlife are sometimes contradictory. This is especially true for "Olam Haba", the world to come. In some rabbinic works this phrase refers to the messianic era, a physical realm right here on Earth. However, in other works this phrase means Gan Eden, Paradise, a purely spiritual realm. There is much rabbinic material on what happens to the soul of the deceased after death, what it experiences, and where it goes. At various points in the afterlife journey, the soul is said to encounter: Hibbut ha-kever, the pains of the grave; Dumah, the angel of silence; The angel of death; The Kaf ha-Kela, the catapult of the soul; Gehenna (purgatory); and Gan Eden  (Heaven; Paradise). Gehenna is fairly well defined in rabbinic literature. It is sometimes translated as "hell", but one should note that the Christian view of hell is different from the Jewish view. For Christians, hell is an abode of eternal torment where sinners go; any person who does not accept Jesus as their messiah is defined by most Christian sects as someone destined for eternal damnation. In Judaism, gehenna - while certainly a terribly unpleasant place - is not hell. The overwhelming majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not tortured in hell forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 12 months. Some consider it a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Gan Eden  [Heaven], where all imperfections are purged. http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Jewish_eschatology Eric The(ChildOfAbraham)Hun

Wow - some day I'll figure you out, Eric.  Until, then, you will keep amazing me.

You have credibilty with many of the other fundamentalists on this board - so by your posting these things, maybe they will read and put their interpretation of the Gospel in a more proper context.

Or maybe not.  As much as many "Christians" decry the Roman Catholic church, their idea of "Hell" often seems derived from ancient Catholic imagery that the Roman Church itself has now moved beyond - based apparently on some creative interpretations of Revelation more than anything else (or maybe Dante?).

Del Boca Vista phase 3.

Quoted: Quoted: HELL That's very insensitive.  [Rant mode on] Jews were worshipping the God of Abraham when your ancestors were worshipping Odin, trees, or whatever pagan god was in vogue at the time.  How dare you Johnny-come-latelys tell them that they are not correctly worshipping their own God?  First you usurp their God, then their Bible and now you've got the gall to tell them that they're going to hell?  Heck, you're probably not even descended from Abraham so the majority of what's in the Bible doesn't apply to you.  [Rant mode off] Answer:  no one knows where any of us are going, although some believe they do.  In the end, we'll find out who's right.

I know.

Lo, there do I see my father
 Lo, there do I see my mother and my sisters
    and my brothers
  Lo, there do I see the line of my people back
     to the beginning
  Lo, they do call to me
     They bid me take place among them
        in the Halls of Valhalla
     Where the brave may live forever...

Edit. Misread original question.

There are two schools of thought that I understand.

Some believe that you are done, fini, kaput, no more you. The Saducees held this belief, they were considered without hope and Jesus didn't bother with them.

Some believe that you go into the ground and await the ressurection. The Pharasies held this belief. Jesus spent alot of time trying to straighten these guys out about other beliefs in order to be in the ressurection. (This is my belief)