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Posted: 9/29/2004 6:30:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Interpid is DEAD. It was replaced with the 300C/Magnum platform. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 6:33:21 PM EDT
[#2]
It certainly appears to be about money. When a department that sues, or joins a suit about the "design defect", which has never had a fuel tank related fire, and continues to use CV's as patrol cars....................... |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 6:35:54 PM EDT
[#3]
You jumped 12 FOOT high culverts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 6:45:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Local sherriff dept only uses Crown Vics. Nothing else would stand up to the treatment they give them.
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Posted: 9/29/2004 6:51:19 PM EDT
[#5]
12 foot long, about 8 feet high. Long story, and I have pix.  (and it was at what most would consider "high speed" for a gravel road... > 90mph) |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 7:08:27 PM EDT
[#6]
If the crown victoria is such a pos, why do the cops keep wanting to buy them anyway?
Because it is a "built like a brick-shit house" pos. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 8:08:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Unless you hit it from behind... 
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Posted: 9/29/2004 9:37:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Sure it can, so can any other car that is rear ended at 55mph plus...  Add in a bunch of gear in the trunk such as road flares, possibly pyrotechnics, a multitude of electricle connections that can spark a fuel leak created in such a serious wreck.The reason you dont see this happen in other cars is because no other car performs the same job in such great numbers so frequently for YEARS. The car is not defective, it simply has a hazardous job. That's like sayig if an officer gets shot on the shot he was defective and you need a better one... For everyone you find that blew up in a rear ender you can probably be shown 20-30 that didn't. Try looking at the big picture people. S.O. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 9:46:24 PM EDT
[#9]
BullShit. My local PD has guys bitching about the WIMPalas over the CVs. They are cramped, underpowered and the trannies are not holding up. They are cheaper and better in snow, being FWD, thats all. You would be surprised how many PDs that have bought WIMPs are not all to happy about how they have been performing. Lets see, take a unibody car, make it FWD, put in a V-6, load it down with a bunch of crap and start doing pit manuvers, jump medians, curbs, and RR tracks, hit big ol potholesetc etc, and we'll see how long it lasts compared to a FULL FRAME RWD V-8 car. S.O. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 9:50:27 PM EDT
[#10]
+1,000,000 Duh........I dont know why people dont get this...... S.O. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 9:56:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Well thats the Brassmobile, its more then a car. I miss my Crown Vic |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 3:34:10 AM EDT
[#12]
It doesnt happen often with front wheel drive cars becuase there is nothing around the gas tank to puncture it. Police cars should have a soft fuel bladder contained in a steel tank, period. any other design of patrol car fuel system is fundementally flawed. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 3:51:00 AM EDT
[#13]
Then the PDs should specify that in their purchase contracts and PAY for it. The fault for these fires lies with the PDs for attempting to get the lowest price by purchasing a 20+ year old design. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 4:13:54 AM EDT
[#14]
We have had two CV's in my county burn when hit from behind.
One I saw multipile pictures of. The other I saw first hand as I was in the first engine on scene to put it out, and the first to lay water to it. Both were extreme cases of being hit from behind by tractor-tailers, fully loaded, doing 65+mph. Under those circumstances any damm car is gonna catch fire, because any fuel tank is going to rupture. Yet of course the only thing many folks here is say "see, CV"s explode". Folks, the damm cars were so mangled they were not even recognizable, anyone who expects a fuel system to retain its integrity under those curcumstances is a moron. Police departments are buying a design thats what, probably 20 years old since development started, and then carrying three times the junk in the trunk and crying because Ford engineers didn't predict the trend for LE to carry so much more with them and make allowances for it twenty years ago 
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Posted: 9/30/2004 6:40:03 AM EDT
[#15]
This is a BIG win- for Chrysler!
Florida should be seeing a lot of Interepid Crusiers now and even better The Dodge Magnum Police Special thewebnewsroom.com/news/features/police-car-hemi.shtml?-popular [r]340 horsepower![/r] If there is going to be a problem it will be with officers killing themselves because they have never driven a car with this much power. 
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Posted: 9/30/2004 8:50:37 AM EDT
[#16]
I'll be very interested to see how the Magnum Wagon works as a police car. The issues I see are cost and capacity. Ford has a good thing with the Crown Vic in that it's cheap, they've been making it long enough that the fixed costs are recovered and there isn't a high retail demand for the car to begin with (Police and Taxi Cab usage account for more Crown Vic sales that retail comsumers). The Magnum Wagon is going to have much higher retail demand for the next few years, so DCX won't be so eager to go dirt cheap on pricing. The Hemi engines especially are in high demand, between Jeep, Dodge truck and 300M/Magnum demand, so that engine option will most likely be priced outside the range of most PDs. Also, the Magnum and 300M are made together on a flexible line, so DCX can shift volume between the two. I don't see the Magnum wagon getting the kind of PD volume as the Crown Vic simply because it's hard to imaging DCX getting that aggressive on price. Kind of the same situation with Police usage of the large SUVs - until recently, it was more profitable to sell them to retail customers instead of fleets. It is an attractive looking cruiser, though. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 9:11:03 AM EDT
[#17]
I see "civilian" CV's priced at 29K. I've seen Hemi Magnums priced at 30K. Police CV's cost about 23K. So if Magnums can be cut down the same amount as CVPI's are from the civilian vehicles, they will be competitive. The Magnum was supposedly desgned to be cheaply made into a police car. Also the Magnums I have seen have a good deal of items, navigation aid, expensive stereos, etc. that will not make it to police cars, and will help in dropping the price. My understanding is there will be very few brake, wheel, or tire mods needed to go from civilian car to police car for the Magnum. CVPI's all have those systems modded to go from civy-police. CV and Marquis are low volume, high profit cars. They are the most profitable non-SUV's currently being sold. That low vloume also means there are more productions costs per vehicle. I think Dodge is working on keeping production costs low, and volume high, for their Magnum/300C lines. Also the "Hemi" is sales leader for Dodge. I know of no production issues with that engine. Dodge seems to be getting rid of a lot of "magnum" engines and replacing them in light trucks and cars with the Hemi. Hemi's are supposedly less expansive to produce than previous engins like the 5.9 L Magnum. Hemi will be the engine installed in police "pursuit rated" vehicles. There are no options. There will be a "police special service package" with a 3.5 L V-6, that is NOT supposed to be used as an emergency vehicle. The big question is simply this "Is Dodge willing to take the steps neccesary to capture the police vehicle market?" IMHO. If they want it.................................................... they just have to price the Magnum competitively. Oh and it gets slightly better mileage than th CVPI........... |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 10:48:59 AM EDT
[#18]
well here's a preview of Daimler/Chrysler's new Charger sedan, uses same chassis as the 300 & Magnum www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article_id=8518&page_number=1 |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 11:31:14 AM EDT
[#19]
Major problem I see is the Crown Vic is a proven design. The Chrysler is largely new & they have tons of reliability problems, especially in the first few years of new models. I'd hate to be the PD who becomes the guinea pig for their new vehicles. I owned a Chrysler a few years ago I bought new. Worst POS I ever owned. Needless to say it is somebody elses problem now.
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Posted: 9/30/2004 11:33:06 AM EDT
[#20]
schecterle? (SP?) 
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Posted: 9/30/2004 11:39:17 AM EDT
[#21]
Sure you did- "a few years ago" being actually 1979 right? Would you consider buying a E-class Mercades? Guess what? Except for the body and engine the Magnum IS a E class Mercades ( and it really shows when you put a Magunm next to a E-wagon.) |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 11:44:18 AM EDT
[#22]
An intersting point. The Hemi isn't new, it's new to this platform. The transmission is a M-B 5 speed auto, again has been in other platforms. The Magnum will be out for 3 years before a "police magnum" becomes available. The 300C will have been out for 4 years before the "police magnum" appears. The Magnum/300C share the same running gear. So when the Magnum becomes a police car, it won't be a rookie  So hopefully some of the "teething" will have been worked out. But of course as soon as it becomes a police car, issues that come out under hard use will show up. As an FYI, every year Ford changes stuff on the CVPI. Mostly without any rhyme or reason. Every year something else manages to get screwed up. Our newest cars are going through some type of recall now. In the past Ford has had recalls on wheels, rear suspension, gas tanks, computer issues, transmission tailshaft issues. etc. My company can't keep the O/D part of the transmission working. Altenators and batteries last months. So Dodge entering the market might make Ford step up and make the CVPI more capable and reliable. (I hope) |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 11:56:19 AM EDT
[#23]
Last I heard, GM was going to import the Holden Monaro and re-badge it as a Pontiac GTO. Did that plan get scrapped. I would think that a Monaro would do well, in a Mad Max sort of way. 
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Posted: 9/30/2004 11:57:13 AM EDT
[#24]
No they are available now at any Pontiac dealership. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 11:57:21 AM EDT
[#25]
Fuel Bladders/Fuel cells are NOT fireproof! That is a myth! There have been plenty of racecars that have caught fire. Don't you watch racing?
Remember when Dale Earnhart Jr. almost burned to death (his Corvette caught fire after hitting the wall sideways) at the 24 hours of Daytona last year? Get real! 99.99 percent of Crown Vics have not experienced gas tank fires. Most of the ones that caught fire were hit from behind by semi-tractor trailers weighing 20 tons doing over sixty miles per hour. Crown Vics are very safe. This is just a case of vice presidential candidate John Edwards friends in the trial bar, making a big ruckus over very rare incidents--hoping to make millions of dollars for themselves--and a tiny bit of money for their clients. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 12:02:59 PM EDT
[#26]
a lot of fundamental Mercedes E-class components date from the 1996-2002 design and then there's all the hardware from the brand new 2003 E-class both excellent vehicles |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 12:08:29 PM EDT
[#27]
The only reason North American spec E-type Mercades are not being built on the same assembly lines as 300C/Magnum/soon to be Charger is that the Unions in Germany would have a screeming fit and probably walk.
To keep labor peace DC had to promise to build only Mercades trucks in the US- the M class are buiilt ONLY in the US. This is also why they build the pussified M class and STILL build the Gelandwagen, all to keep peace with the German trade unions. And the little Chrysler Crossfire sports convertable is, in trade, built on the same lines in Germany as the SLK/SLC coupes and convertables. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 12:11:22 PM EDT
[#28]
So then WTF is the hold-up here? 
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Posted: 9/30/2004 1:47:05 PM EDT
[#29]
The UAW. There was a huge pissing match when it was announced that the GTO was being built in Australia. GM agreed in the last contract to cap imports from Australia to something like 50,000 units. If they want to sell anymore, they have to add capacity here - something they won't do. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 1:48:07 PM EDT
[#30]
In the majority of fires in racing the fuel leak is not from the tank/bladder. Its from the fuel line or pump pump. Fuel bladders have an excelent crash survivability. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 10:40:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Well, I have a CV with the HPP pack, essentially the PI package but in a more luxo wrapper. I put about 2.5K a month on it and drive it like I stole it. Have had ZERO mechanical problems. Granted, my car does not get the 40k a year milage that a cruiser might but what are you expecting? These cars age 2-3 years for every year a normal car ages, of course stuff is going to wear out and break. These cars have HUGE electrical loads compaired to a normal car batteries and alternators will wear out faster. A factor often left out of all these breaking cars is how good the service is being done to them, rearely do we get that side of the equation. S.O. edited to fix some of my poor ass speeling... 
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Posted: 9/30/2004 11:11:01 PM EDT
[#32]
We have had transmission problems for YEARS. You would think they could design an OD system to survive behind a 220-250 hp midsize V-8. They've only been making them for 20+ years. More like 80-100K per year. Whne we used to get rid of them at 100K a lot of them were in much better shape than you would think. Again, every year Ford changes things, sometimes for no apparent reason, each year of new CVPI's has something else stupid done to it. Every year there are recalls. Why is that happening on a car that has used the same frame since the early 90's? and the same body style for 7 years? You would think they could sort out a car in that amount of time. Oh, AR-15fan, the CVPI's do have fuel tank "liners", they just dissolve slowly when the come in contact with gasoline.....................another year's bright idea. You would also think that Ford would figure out that altenators tend to go out, and out a heavier alenator in there............. actually they have for 2004....................6 years into the car design. |
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Posted: 9/30/2004 11:19:24 PM EDT
[#33]
why dont the police just buy armored vehicles if they are so worried about it like an apc. of course the damn gas tank can rupture when your hit in the rear by someone going that fast any car could have that problem
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Posted: 9/30/2004 11:38:59 PM EDT
[#34]
If your talking about the tranny "shudder" that has been a problem in Ford trannies, it is directly linked to the fluid. They are VERY dependant on the correct fluid and regular fluid changes, something 98% of car owners do not do until it's to late. The fluid doesn't even have to be burnt, just the WRONG fluid. My car has the PI engine and tranny pack but has 3.27 gears instead of the 3.55s (and my car is still quicker) and the steel instead of the MMX driveshaft and in 120k my stock original 130amp alty is still fine. People have to realize that they cars are driven hard and put away wet and are not going to drive like a 20k 20 year old car car your grandmother had to drive to church with only on sundays S.O. |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 12:10:24 AM EDT
[#35]
If I recall correctly, the officer in Phoenix that was burned, his vehicle was rear ended by another car that was going over 70 mph and his car was standing still. Now he might not agree, but that guy is lucky to be alive. I think that says something about the CV that the guy lived through that. I drive a Ford Ranger, and if I got rear ended by a car going that fast, my family would be getting a call in the night and the emergency crews would be picking up parts of my truck and me from all over the road, not being able to tell what part is which.
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Posted: 10/1/2004 6:36:17 AM EDT
[#36]
M113A3 APCs have external mounted fuel tanks in the rear www.uniteddefense.com/www.m113.com/m113a3.html  |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 7:34:20 AM EDT
[#37]
Just for everyone's info, none of the Chrysler RWD cars are, or will be, body-on frame. They are all unitized welded bodies.
Any engineer knows a unitized welded box beam (what a unit body is) is FAR stronger and stiffer than a ladder frame with a sheetmetal body bolted on it. A unit body can be designed to to heavy loads easily, and if not designed for so at the outset, it can be modified with welded reinforcements. The only reason body on frame still exists in cars is because it is cheap, and it trucks because it makes configuration changes (different beds, bodies etc.) much easier. |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 7:35:47 AM EDT
[#38]
Not exactly. A unibody is stronger for a given weight; ie: you can make it light and strong. If you think ladder frames aren't strong, take a look at semi-trucks |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 7:47:54 AM EDT
[#39]
Holden Monaro/GTO Now, if only the price were lower... Hey, the B4C Z28 worked as a PI... |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 7:56:44 AM EDT
[#40]
Not in Arizona or California they didn't. They overheated constantly, and had serious transmission issues, again related to running hot. DPS never replaced their Mustangs at all. California tried buying some Camaros and wound up reassigning them to the far north. I would assume Nevada had the same results, but I have never met any of their troopers so I cant say for sure. |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 7:59:30 AM EDT
[#41]
Because not everyon drives a 3.8 or smaller car... You would NOT beat me between toll booths [
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Posted: 10/1/2004 8:29:14 AM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 10/1/2004 9:08:30 AM EDT
[#43]
No shit, sherlock. Compare apples to apples, please. |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 9:47:35 AM EDT
[#44]
AR15fan, Sorry dude, but your belief in fuel bladder/fuel cell effectiveness, reliability, cost, and feasibility does not jibe with real world use. It is great for racing, it ain't great for everyday use for many reasons. First, they don't last very long. They need to be replaced every few years because they degrade internally. This degradation is hastened when certain fuel additives are used. One potential problem with a fuel cell is that it can explode if not properly maintained. Fuel cell foam should be replaced every three years. This is not practical for municipal use. This is an added cost to those police CV's that is not justified by the minicule risk. Please read this link to see the problems with fuel cells. www.fuelsafe.com/FAQ.htm Also fuel cells may be illegal to use. Read to the bottom of this link. www.off-roadweb.com/tech/0310or_fuelcell/ |
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Posted: 10/1/2004 9:53:46 AM EDT
[#45]
Finally a voice of reason! People dont realize any vehicle that is used like the CV by police are going to have issues. Passenger cars usually dont take that kind of beating day in and day out. Other cars that are butt ended at 70-90mph would do a lot worse then the CV.
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