Quoted: You have opposing interests with dealers, especially in a spot transaction like a gun show.  If someone wanted to buy my AR for $1mm I'd sell it.  So would you.  That's how capitalism works.  As long as someone is not committing outright fraud--i.e., representing a used gun as new--then there is no problem.  Just go to the next table, keep the money to yourself, and laugh at the dealer's hubris.  It's only a true "rip off" if someone lies.  If you're an educated consumer, good for you as far as prices go.

Selling any domestically produced firearm or any magazine as "pre-ban" is fraud.

As "pre-ban" refers to a federal ban that does not exist.

Quoted: I'm not naming names, but some folks selling "rare" & "truly collectable" pre ban rifles over in the EE need to get a grip!

You must have gone to one of these NYS gunshows.  Like the one in Rochester, NY, this last weekend.
I saw those overpriced USED AR15s.  I noticed this one dealer, who has been displaying(I can't say selling'cause no one is buying them) used pre 1994 A1 and A2 types, that were previously SWAT equipment.  These weapons had what looked to be chew marks on the upper and lower receivers.  Some had stock numbers SCRATCHED onto the lowers!(It looked like some fuctard went stupid with an etching tool)  This guy had the nerve to sell these things as a gunshow special for $1,795!  "Normal" price were about  $2,695!  A couple of gunshows ago, these things were going for about $1700 each.  I guess he didn't think anyone would notice.

Bilster

The stupidity... make it STOP!!!

It truly saddens me to hear these gun show horror stories. So much for comradity. So much for community. Hell... so much for common decency!

All I can do is shake my head in disgust & wonder why we do this to ourselves? Isn’t it enough that we have the entire American Left out to end our way of life?

I swear, sometimes we are our own worst enemy!

Quoted: Quoted: What if that guy is selling the rifle to pay medical bills.  Maybe the "Its gotta go" means he'll need the money shortly.  None of you know what situations are occuring in these people's lives. Don't jump to conclusions too fast.  He may be well aware of the market value - but the market value might not cover a sick child's chemo treatments. Think before you go spouting off about how these people are somehow cheats. I know - I've been there.  When there is no money, you gotta produce somehow. Good point.  Unfortunately, if money is tight and you need to sell at above-market prices to make end's meat, it helps a lot to let your potential buyer know the reason for above-market prices.  How about "My kid needs chemo and I can't afford it, so I'm trying to sell this AR at twice it's value.  I don't have enough stuff to sell at market value to pay for my son's medical bills." or something of the sort would go a lot farther than "'rare' and 'collectible' Pre-94 gun at outrageous prices"

I would not pay 2x the value, even if it was going for someones chemo. Sorry. I don't think anyone here would. If you need money fast you sell cheaper to create the incentive to buy it NOW. You make up the rest by selling other stuff, guns, coins, blood, semen etc etc...

S.O.

Quoted: Quoted: I'm not naming names, but some folks selling "rare" & "truly collectable" pre ban rifles over in the EE need to get a grip! You must have gone to one of these NYS gunshows.  Like the one in Rochester, NY, this last weekend. I saw those overpriced USED AR15s.  I noticed this one dealer, who has been displaying(I can't say selling'cause no one is buying them) used pre 1994 A1 and A2 types, that were previously SWAT equipment.  These weapons had what looked to be chew marks on the upper and lower receivers.  Some had stock numbers SCRATCHED onto the lowers!(It looked like some fuctard went stupid with an etching tool)  This guy had the nerve to sell these things as a gunshow special for $1,795!  "Normal" price were about  $2,695!  A couple of gunshows ago, these things were going for about $1700 each.  I guess he didn't think anyone would notice. Bilster

Blister, did you see the fat chick's table against the wall that had the S/A HK21 for $9k and SP89 for $4k, and neutered/stock HK SL/G-36 wanna-be for $1800!? She even had sterling mags for $100 each (available at IMI for $25) and $30 HK91/G3 mags (same ones you can get for $4 online).

I think I saw the rack of ARs you saw...what a fucking rip. I looked at the tag and just shook my head as I walked away. The only real "deal" I saw and missed when I went back to get it was a 3" stainless S&W N frame in 44 special for $300.

S.O.

Quoted: While it may not be fraud, threatening potential customers with jail is down right dishonest, and that is what many of the dealers who are telling thier customers that will happen if they buy mags stamped "LEO only" and a new ban gets passed.

Don't worry the new banned mags will be marked "RESTRICTED LAW ENFORCEMENT/MILITARY/EXPORT ONLY- AND WE REALLY MEAN IT THIS TIME"

The marketplace has and always will set the prices of firearms.  The prices will come down when these rifles are collecting dust in their racks.

OK - just so I can understand -

as someone who is contemplating responding to the appeal from New Yorkers to sell them our "pre-bans," how much do you economics gurus think a 1993 Colt Sporter is worth to a New Yorker?

Quoted: OK - just so I can understand - as someone who is contemplating responding to the appeal from New Yorkers to sell them our "pre-bans," how much do you economics gurus think a 1993 Colt Sporter is worth to a New Yorker?

Sporter Match HBAR? What exact model model # is it?  What cond?  Is it all original?

Quoted: Quoted: OK - just so I can understand - as someone who is contemplating responding to the appeal from New Yorkers to sell them our "pre-bans," how much do you economics gurus think a 1993 Colt Sporter is worth to a New Yorker? Sporter Match HBAR? What exact model model # is it?  What cond?  Is it all original?

Yes, "Sporter match H-Bar" - since I found this forum in its infancy, I have heard people talk about different "color" labels - but have no clue what mine is.  What would I have to check?  I still have the manual, it only says "Sporter Match H-Bar."'

1:9 twist chromed bull barrel, large front pivot "screw" pin, purchased in 1993.  All original parts (well, actually I have an A2 barrel in it now, but still have the original barrel), with just under 1 thousand rounds through it, and some wear on the side of the receiver.

I was just going to keep it, but if I can help someone out who still needs a "pre-ban" I will sell it - but not if I end being labeled as unscrupulous and lose money (I have to replace it, after all) on the deal.

Edit:

I just remembered it is not 100% original.  In 1998, I noticed unacceptable erosion on the bolt carrier where it contacted the hammer as it cycled back.  Colt asked me to ship the whole damn thing to them, said that those carriers had inferior metal, and replaced the carrier with a supposedly improved one.  This new carrier has hardly been used, as I spent most of the next 4 years overseas and have many more toys I shoot now, due in part to this damn board.

Edit #2:

I have the repair sheet from Colt.  They called it a model MT6700.

Also, apparently the guy I talked to on the phone strayed from the "official" party line regarding the repair.

The "Remarks" section states:  Customer note:  The wear you see is typical for a gun of this age, however we will peplace your bolt carrier as a product service gesture at this time.

It is all coming back to me now - I remember being pissed off at Colt - making me pay out of my pocket to ship the whole rifle and then making a BS statement like that. (oh well, they DID replace the carrier)

I have spent time as an enlisted small arms repairer in the Army, 2 years as a unit armorer in the National Guard, and am now coming up on 12 years total in the Army - and have NEVER seen a bolt carrier worn like that one had become.  Plus, what was with mentioning the gun's "age?"  Wouldn't rounds fired be more appropriate than "age?"  

Quoted: Quoted: You have opposing interests with dealers, especially in a spot transaction like a gun show.  If someone wanted to buy my AR for $1mm I'd sell it.  So would you.  That's how capitalism works.  As long as someone is not committing outright fraud--i.e., representing a used gun as new--then there is no problem.  Just go to the next table, keep the money to yourself, and laugh at the dealer's hubris.  It's only a true "rip off" if someone lies.  If you're an educated consumer, good for you as far as prices go.   Selling any domestically produced firearm or any magazine as "pre-ban" is fraud. As "pre-ban" refers to a federal ban that does not exist.

It's only a fraud if you know that's untrue.  Plus, "preban" can designate certain desirable features, like a bayonet lug.  So I think you're overstating things.  

Quoted: Yes, "Sporter match H-Bar" - since I found this forum in its infancy, I have heard people talk about different "color" labels - but have no clue what mine is.  What would I have to check?  I still have the manual, it only says "Sporter Match H-Bar."' 1:9 twist chromed bull barrel, large front pivot "screw" pin, purchased in 1993.  All original parts (well, actually I have an A2 barrel in it now, but still have the original barrel), with just under 1 thousand rounds through it, and some wear on the side of the receiver. I was just going to keep it, but if I can help someone out who still needs a "pre-ban" I will sell it - but not if I end being labeled as unscrupulous and lose money (I have to replace it, after all) on the deal. Edit: I just remembered it is not 100% original.  In 1998, I noticed unacceptable erosion on the bolt carrier where it contacted the hammer as it cycled back.  Colt asked me to ship the whole damn thing to them, said that those carriers had inferior metal, and replaced the carrier with a supposedly improved one.  This new carrier has hardly been used, as I spent most of the next 4 years overseas and have many more toys I shoot now, due in part to this damn board. Edit #2: I have the repair sheet from Colt.  They called it a model MT6700.

If it came from the factory with a ground off bayo lug and an A2 flash suppressor with a blind pinned blocked lower receiver it's a blue label.  What exactly does it say on the receiver and what are the first two letters and first three numbers of the serial number.  It should be something like XX123456.  XX= MH, MT etc.  

IMO preban Colts are desirable in NY because they are easily verified by their serial number and can be documented in writing by Colt for a fee.

Quoted: Quoted: Yes, "Sporter match H-Bar" - since I found this forum in its infancy, I have heard people talk about different "color" labels - but have no clue what mine is.  What would I have to check?  I still have the manual, it only says "Sporter Match H-Bar."' 1:9 twist chromed bull barrel, large front pivot "screw" pin, purchased in 1993.  All original parts (well, actually I have an A2 barrel in it now, but still have the original barrel), with just under 1 thousand rounds through it, and some wear on the side of the receiver. I was just going to keep it, but if I can help someone out who still needs a "pre-ban" I will sell it - but not if I end being labeled as unscrupulous and lose money (I have to replace it, after all) on the deal. Edit: I just remembered it is not 100% original.  In 1998, I noticed unacceptable erosion on the bolt carrier where it contacted the hammer as it cycled back.  Colt asked me to ship the whole damn thing to them, said that those carriers had inferior metal, and replaced the carrier with a supposedly improved one.  This new carrier has hardly been used, as I spent most of the next 4 years overseas and have many more toys I shoot now, due in part to this damn board. Edit #2: I have the repair sheet from Colt.  They called it a model MT6700.   If it came from the factory with a ground off bayo lug and an A2 flash suppressor with a blind pinned blocked lower receiver it's a blue label.  What exactly does it say on the receiver and what are the first two letters and first three numbers of the serial number.  It should be something like XX123456.  XX= MH, MT etc.   IMO preban Colts are desirable in NY because they are easily verified by their serial number and can be documented in writing by Colt for a fee.

The receiver states: Colt, Sporter, Competition, HBAR, cal .223, Ser, CH005XXX

So - I what would a fair price be - without me being attacked by the pricing police?  Does $1k seem fair?

You have a Model R6700 with a low serial number which is consistent with being manufactured in 1993.  Serial numbers below CH019500 and below are preban.

I don't believe in this nonsense about price gouging of preban rifles.  A rifle (or anything else) is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.  If the rifle was NIB unfired with the original Colt 5rd mags (20rd), blue label box and all accessories including the tags and serial numbered plastic bags you could probably get more then a $1000 for it.  

IMO $1000 for the rifle in its current condition as described is not unreasonable with a couple of USGI preban mags for someone in NY who wants an easily documented preban.

I've offered repeatedly to trade out a very, very nice Bushmaster M4, complete rifle, w/ factory letter stating pre-1994 manufacture, for nothing more than the replacement cost of a current production Bushmaster M4.

What is that....$800??

Not one taker. Nobody, nada....nothing. I have absolutely no problem keeping the rifle, and frankly a little surprised nobody is interested. Bottom line, if I saw this rifle in a shop, I'd be ALL over it....and for roughly $800, I'd be all over it REAL fast.

It certainly doesn't pain me to keep it, that's for damn sure.

Quoted: I've offered repeatedly to trade out a very, very nice Bushmaster M4, complete rifle, w/ factory letter stating pre-1994 manufacture, for nothing more than the replacement cost of a current production Bushmaster M4. What is that....$800?? Not one taker. Nobody, nada....nothing. I have absolutely no problem keeping the rifle, and frankly a little surprised nobody is interested. Bottom line, if I saw this rifle in a shop, I'd be ALL over it....and for roughly $800, I'd be all over it REAL fast. It certainly doesn't pain me to keep it, that's for damn sure.

Cool - that was post 4473 for you.

So much for New Yorkers wanting our pre-bans, huh?

Quoted: Quoted: I've offered repeatedly to trade out a very, very nice Bushmaster M4, complete rifle, w/ factory letter stating pre-1994 manufacture, for nothing more than the replacement cost of a current production Bushmaster M4. What is that....$800?? Not one taker. Nobody, nada....nothing. I have absolutely no problem keeping the rifle, and frankly a little surprised nobody is interested. Bottom line, if I saw this rifle in a shop, I'd be ALL over it....and for roughly $800, I'd be all over it REAL fast. It certainly doesn't pain me to keep it, that's for damn sure. Cool - that was post 4473 for you. So much for New Yorkers wanting our pre-bans, huh?

I'm sure there's someone out there that would LOVE this rifle...but demand, even at a completely fair price seems weak at best. My firearms budget has nothing to do with this deal either...I simply thought I'd relocate my rifle to a banned state for nothing more than current replacement cost for the sake of the new freedoms some of us get to enjoy while others don't.

Whatever. On to the next subject.

Not only some folks but some dealers also with the outrages prices for the new Colts. I thought the experation would bring the price down. With the prices of the new Colts you would think there is a new ban. I sold my like new complete preban Oly lower to a NY resident right after the ban for 325.00 shipped, alot less than I had in it. I was glad I helped someone who couldn't buy a new noban.